Serenity Firefly rejected already

Posted by rockbrick in Gibraltar, 08 May 2012 04:01

i was just thinking to myself that it seems too easy to hit 10,000 with celebrity/brand following that I bet the Cuusoo team are going to up that very soon indeed....

Posted by scifiantihero in United States, 08 May 2012 04:08

They should look into Anakin slaughtering children, but okay LEGO . . .

Posted by Mickitat in Germany, 08 May 2012 04:13

You do not see Anakin slaughtering children. The scene is not even insinuated, everything is happening in your imagination - it is just told as a story. The killing and dying in Serenity is a lot more real.

Posted by Nesquik in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 04:43

If I was the author of this project, I wouldn't worry too much about it not being accepted. People forget that these are very early days for Cuusoo, and the fans are still learning from such experiences what kinds of projects are going to be accepted and those that aren't.

Suffice to say in the future, we can target more appealing projects! :-)

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 08 May 2012 04:46

The "IP"? IP address? Or some other mystical acronym? :P

Posted by scifiantihero in United States, 08 May 2012 04:50

Intellectual Property.

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 08 May 2012 04:54

@scifiantihero: Thanks. :)

Posted by qvack in Australia, 08 May 2012 05:02

Bit of a shame really that they're taking this stance. To me cuusoo is a good opportunity to exploit the adult market, and since it's likely that these products will never enter regular retail channels I can hardly see the core image that lego is clearly trying to maintain being changed at all by slightly more adult-themed products.

That said it is frustrating to see that the only projects making it through the process are licensed MOCs, it would be great to see some of the others at least get close to meeting the goal.

Posted by ninjagoyo in United States, 08 May 2012 05:06

@Mickitat
Come on man, don't be disingenuous about Anakin's massacre, or his de-limbing, or any other scenes from SW. We need to accept the fact that LEGO will exercise a double standard on CUUSOO proposals vis a vis their cash cow existing themes. It is totally understandable but that doesn't mean we should pretend it's not a double standard. Let's face reality.

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 08 May 2012 05:38

Which of the three remaining potential themes contain swear words? :P

Posted by ninjagoyo in United States, 08 May 2012 05:44

Swear words? The grounds for rejection LEGO itself cited were "content related to realistic or extreme violence."

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 08 May 2012 05:58

@ninjagoyo: Ok, BTTF just has a few punches, no knives or guns; Zelda has cartoon sword-fighting and no blood (I believe); and Eve... well, they're just spaceships blowing each other up, I presume. :P So they should be all be approved on content grounds. :P

EDIT: Whoops, BTTF 3 was set in the wild west, so guns galore. :P But I don't think anyone was shot...

Posted by Berrybrick in United States, 08 May 2012 06:06

I can see BTTF and Zelda passing, as long as the licensing works out. I don't know about Eve though, because I know nothing about Eve. :P

Posted by BrickBob09 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 06:26

@Alemas; Out of the three, BTTF is the one I want to pass the most, being my favourite movie (followed by SW). It should pass as it's only rated PG, but there are a few of reasons it won't:

1) It contains a lot of swearing (mainly in BTTF 1)
2) Yes, it contains guns in BTTF 2 and 3. No-one is actually shot, but guns are fired several times
3) It also shows under-age consumption of alcohol (by Biff and co.). This is a small one, but LEGO may still take it into account. They might even argue about the 'adult magazine' (Oh La La), that is briefly shown, but this shows nothing explicit.

Anyway, I'm not surprised it didn't pass. I don't see why people even bother submitting projects that are doomed to fail.

Posted by Lost Cosmonaut in United States, 08 May 2012 06:49

As much as I like Firefly/Serenity and would have loved this to come to fruition, I tend to agree with LEGO's reasoning. Even the Firefly TV show was relatively disturbing, and especially the movie where you really get to see the Reavers. Heck, one of the main characters is a prostitute for heaven's sake.

On the other hand, while there is a lot of violence in Star Wars, it's different. It's "fantasy violence", not blood and guts. I think that's what makes the difference.

As far as the remaining themes that have been successful, I don't think there's any specific reason any of them should fail, since none of them are really any worse than Star Wars. The biggest issue is going to be getting rights. Eve is probably going to be the easiest of the three. BTTF is going to require a lot more work, since actors have to sign off as well as the owners of the rights, and all involved need a cut. That's a pretty big mountain to climb. Zelda's major issue is going to be the fact that Nintendo has licensed to Mega Bloks (Mario Kart sets, at the moment). Since properties have flip-flopped between the two (Cars, Thomas the Tank Engine, etc.), it could be that Lego could make it work, but I'm not holding my breath.

Posted by Huw in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 07:00

^ Good summary of the licensing issues, I fully agree.

Posted by roamingstudio in Switzerland, 08 May 2012 07:10

Remember - they also took the initiative to pre-evaluate the license / IP which means that there was some heads-up apart from the nature of the shows. Perhaps the IP issue was already known from earlier (unknown) discussions... perhaps there is a non-competition clause with Lucas Arts (i.e. no other space / film tie-ins). Alien Conquest is not a licensed space / film tie-in. Certainly I believe you need to read between the lines on TLG's statements; as was also the case with the Winchester.

Posted by jonbuddy in United States, 08 May 2012 07:16

@BrickBob, There are several things that don't have to and/or cannot be translated into LEGO form. Guns are okay, while you can't make LEGOs swear. And there isn't any LEGO bottle AFAIK.

In PotC they make solid references and use lots of rum onscreen, but look where that theme has gone.

Posted by Firox 5000 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 07:19

Indiana jones had guns and some swearing in it and Lego made films of them. I'm not too sure about alcohol but would but gutted if Lego didn't release a bttf de odeon set. I've also noticed a ucs delorean which may be rising in popularity now. I think if it gets to 10,000 also we could have a good chance of seeing both sets released.

Posted by vpustote in United States, 08 May 2012 07:20

In POTC, they stab pirates and slit throats. I'm going to say that BTTF is a lot more family-friendly than POTC.

Posted by demon_llama in United States, 08 May 2012 08:05

it may also have something to do with the fact that the IP is owned by Joss, but you also have ownership by FOX and UNIVERSAL, because of their seperate productions. that could make for a lot of confusing/hectic paperwork (and payments). the show is 10+ years old, and although it is a cult classic, it just may not have the strength that STAR WARS or Indy have.

Posted by Graysmith in Sweden, 08 May 2012 08:07

Back to the Future may not be a children's film, but it's certainly far more family-friendly than Star Wars or Indiana Jones. Even in the typically conservative U.S. it was only rated PG (it came out the year after the PG-13 rating was implemented). I don't see LEGO having any issues with it as long as they get the green light from the movie studio (which is probably why a verdict is still pending).

Posted by pstrickler27 in United States, 08 May 2012 08:12

@Lost Cosmonaut.. I agree with you completely.. except Nintedo is with K'NEX.. not Mega Bloks.. they still look horrible either way..

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 08 May 2012 08:27

You have just implemented a "CUUSOO Corner". Seriously? :P

Posted by just2good in United States, 08 May 2012 08:36

Cuusoo corner has no licensed stuff except for Star Wars (which TLC has a license for) and the Vampire GT Supercar (is that even licensed?). Huw, why you no like new licenses? :P
Also, please put the ball maze project there. Then I'll be happy. ;)

Posted by Delatron in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 08:41

After my disappointment (though not surprise) with the Winchester rejection, this being bombed for questionable content in the original film/ show gives me a much clearer idea of where they are setting the bar for suitability of submissions.

I still call some double standard on violence though - @mickitat, no, you don't see Anakin hacking down younglings, but you do see the scattered corpses later. Doesn't Obi-wan hack off Ponda baba's arm in the cantina? Complete with smoking severed limb? Oh, but it's an alien so it's cartoon violence and thus alright? Same with sand people, ewoks and Jawas. Han shooting Greedo - first.
And clones too, it's alright to massacre thousands of clones because they are all vat-grown Jango fett copies, not real people. And storm troopers by the dozen. Because they are all very naughty baddies wearing masks and probably not as charming as Han or Luke.
Wait a minute, Dooku is a human and you watch Anakin slice off his head! Oh yeah, Sith are bad and so that's OK. How about that nasty Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen that Luke finds, with their cadavers still smoking? Point made yet?

Posted by yellowcastle in United States, 08 May 2012 09:19

"When reviewing projects for production, the LEGO Jury first looks at how the concept fits the LEGO brand. We learned the IP was questionable regarding a brand fit, and since we anticipated this project reaching 10,000 the team got a head start and reviewed the project on these criteria.

LEGO produces toys for children. Therefore all LEGO products, regardless of age target, must be content-appropriate for this core audience. With this in mind we have decided that as cool as the Serenity model is, the Firefly TV show and Serenity film contain content that is not appropriate for our core target audience of children ages 6-11. While we know this news will disappoint those who supported the project, we will not be producing this as a LEGO product.

Opening ourselves to new product suggestions invites popular ideas that don’t always fit our brand. We are grateful for the spirit behind projects like the Firefly Serenity and for the opportunity to be challenged. It keeps us sharp and looking toward the future of the LEGO brick."

*******************************************************************************************

I think this is a perfectly reasonable explanation. That being said, I'm not sure I 100% buy it. If I were a betting man (and I am), I would guess this rejection has as much to do with restrictions stemming from the Star Wars license as anything to do with the content of this TV Show and/or movie. In either case, it's completely LEGO's decision and I fully support it. Additionally, I consider this to be a great example of why Cuusoo working at its best. A fan built a pretty good model of a cult favorite IP. The community got together and supported it to the 10,000 mark. LEGO reviewed it but decided to pass. Sounds to me like it's working perfectly.

Now, if we could just approve a couple of kid-eligible Sci-Fi License sets (i.e. The Last Starfighter, Flight of the Navigator, Explorers), we might get final confirmation that there is indeed some kind of "No Compete / Sci Fi License" clause in the Star Wars Contract. While I would love for them to just come right out and tell us to keep us from wasting our time, I can understand why they won't.

Posted by lovaquero in United States, 08 May 2012 09:35

@Delatron - Nope. Keep going. =)

You need to revisit the movies as your mind has created a bit more gore than is actually there (e.g. shown) for SW. Although it IS there. As for Firefly/Serenity, there is no need for the mind to "create" what the Repeaers (and great many others) actually do. Perhaps you are forgettting the end of Serentiy when River re-appears after having slaughtered a great many Reapers. Along with all the dripping blood and very clear shots of very graphic carnage.

SW has carnage too. The difference? I will let my kids, aged 3-12, watch Star Wars without fear of them climbing in my bed that night from nightmares. Firefly/Serenity? Guaranteed nightmares. No matter how much "I" enjoy the show.

Either way, folks need to climb down off their boxes and give it up. Lego is currently sticking to their gun on this, no matter how much we may (not) like it. They've made their stance. I applaud them for it.

Posted by vwong19 in United States, 08 May 2012 09:37

I am not surprised that Lego rejected this Firefly project. In fact I did not know this was based on a show that lasted one season back in 2002. Lego would be catering to a small population of buyers with little potential of growth as the show has little exposure.

The Shauna of the Dead project was rejected for inappropriate content, but probably also due to its lack of fan base. I know little about the show that was produced in 2004 and judging by the box office figures unimpressive. All the Winchester set really was was a modular with their new Monster theme added.

As far as other Cuusoo projects moving forward, I think Back to the Future has a good chance, but not a strong one. Lego has to time the toy release with a Back to the Future re-release in 3D otherwise their core (6-13 yo) won't care. Zelda is still current, but the license may be problem with Knex.

Stars Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel, DC, Disney Pixar, Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Indiana Jones are all huge movies. Some movies with similar popularity: Transformers (hasbro), Avatar (why not when Avatar 2 comes out), Titanic (big ship model... nothing further) and Twilight (????).

Posted by bigw1974 in United States, 08 May 2012 09:51

I like that people are submitting models there, even if they no chance of passing. It may give LEGO (or me) ideas on things to build. So, LEGO is not going to do Firefly...maybe someone at LEGO will get the idea to do an unlicensed Space Cowboys. Can't get the Zelda license? Maybe (in a few years) bring back the Castle theme, with Dwarves, Elves, Goblins etc. I don't see how anyone is getting hurt here when people submit their models. Maybe the only ones that bug me are the ones that REALLY obviously can't be done at all - like the box of 100 stormtroopers...but maybe even that will help convince LEGO to start putting a regular stormtrooper in more sets, since you can never really have too many...so I'll take that back.

Posted by Iron-Man in United States, 08 May 2012 10:01

^ Great point. I agree 100%. Nobody is getting hurt from these themes going to the review. If any of the projects you do not like make it through, then simply do not buy it. However every idea that gets 10,000 supporters just gives TLG more to think about and more insight in what people do like to see in their sets!

Posted by rosney in United States, 08 May 2012 10:02

"...the Firefly TV show and Serenity film contain content that is not appropriate for our core target audience of children ages 6-11"

Doesn't Star Wars Episode II have a scene where Anakin slaughters a room full of children?

Just sayin.

Posted by savatheaggie in United States, 08 May 2012 10:07

The reason Star Wars is considered "fantasy violence" is because no one believes its actually happening. The acting is so poor that it just can't be believed that what's being shown on the screen is real.

Firefly, on the other hand, had great acting to the point everything was believable. It was like you were there.

:)

Posted by Legolover9531 in United States, 08 May 2012 10:22

Didn't care about it to begin with, but hopefully Zelda and BTTF pass.

Posted by xccj in United States, 08 May 2012 10:42

I'm disappointed that the Serenity set got rejected so quickly, but I accept their reasoning behind it. Still, it won't keep AFOLs from building their own models, so I can't fuss too much about it. Now I'll put all my support behind BttF, which is just as iconic as Indiana Jones or Star Wars. As for non-licensed projects, I'm hoping for a surge in support for the Space Marines one. That would be cool.

Posted by Deinonychus in United States, 08 May 2012 10:45

I blame Inara. LEGO doesn't want to prompt parents having to explain what a fully licensed Companion does. ;)

Posted by Delatron in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 10:55

@lovaquero

If anything I undersold it - perhaps the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia kept you from remembering them!

http://www.runleiarun.com/choppedoffhands/sw4.html
http://www.cabbagestew.com/tragic.html
http://www.galacticbinder.com/ptop-20-star-wars-darkest-moments.html

The latter of these reminded me of the various scenes of torture too.

I'm not saying Firefly/ Serenity IS appropriate for the core market. It's not. The reapers in particular, the more adult themes, crew are essentially smugglers, violent thieves, etc. Neither am I an advocate of gore despite being a fan of horror, etc. But Lego do pick and choose with their prime cash cows of what they deem suitable content. That's the point i'm getting at.

Posted by lovaquero in United States, 08 May 2012 11:01

@tensor:

Yes, SW ep2 has that scene. But it doesn't. You don't see Anakin swinging away impaling kids, lopping off heads. You don't even see the end-result beyond a biref shot of kids laying on the ground. You don't see blood. You don't SEE it happen.

In Serenity you see River stepping out of a room dripping with blood and full of chopped-up Repears. You even get to see her starting the bloodbath. She is clearly covered in gore. You SEE what she did.

You are smart - stop and think about what will go through the head of a 6-11 yr old by seeing just the end part of both scenes described above.

Just sayin. ;-)

Posted by lovaquero in United States, 08 May 2012 11:19

@Delatron:

Nope, not rose-tinted nostolgia. I remember all of those VERY well (my 11 yrs old could give George Lucas a run for his money on SW continuity, lore and history). That is why I said "Keep Going". I was waiting for the good stuff. =)

That also why I said:

"...your mind has created a bit more gore than is actually there (e.g. shown) for SW. Although it IS there..."

I do apologize for the attacking tone with the 'you' references. I should not have done that.

Being the parent of a 3, 5, 9, 11 & 13 yr old - ALL of which have all things SW committed to long-term memory (including many of the scenes called out) - I feel I have a rather solid perspective on why Star Wars will always trump themes like Zombies, Reapers, FireFly and a host of others as "appropriate content" for the lego 'core audience'...

Lego is in a Catch-22 on this - and they know it - but it is their stance to take. I applaud them.

Also agree with you and yellowcastle on the cash cow arguement. But you have to admit that they nailed it: SW is beyond popular - enough to finance 3 entire sub-par movies over 6-7 years - and has made Billions. FireFly was (sadly) cancelled after one season with a concession to the fans in the form of one (DANG GOOD) movie that barely made back its budget)...

Posted by rosney in United States, 08 May 2012 11:44

@lovaquero

You do kinda see it, on the security tapes. Even though the scene is now shown clearly, it's _right there_ in the movie. It's a major point too, and clearly referenced by both Obi-Wan and Yoda.

Anyway, it's not a matter of principles, it's a matter of choice. Lego selectively chooses when to enforce the established rules, and when not to. Lego doesn't like guns, but Star Wars has guns. "But that's fantasy" you say? Ok, how about those twin Vickers on the front of the Sopwith Camel? I bet those took quite a few real lives back in the day. Why does Lego choost to make the Camel, but not say an M1 Abrams tank? Because it's more elegant? Because it killed _less_ people?

I'm not blaming Lego for these choices at all, in fact I'd LOVE to see some adult "R-rated" sets - holy crap would I love to see some real war machinery sets. It just irks me when they use this as an excuse for not doing something when it's clearly not the real reason. It makes me feel I'm being lied to, because I am.

Posted by Delatron in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 11:45

@Lovaquero

No need to apologise at all, i'm an enormous geek and actually tend-toward the rose-tinted nostalgia view myself which was why I said it. I've also watched some of the SW movies in the last few weeks so I was wondering whether my ageing memory was failing!

Interesting we raised these points as my son (4, nearly 5) was being told about ep 3 and Dooku's decapitation by his 5-year old friend and i've been internally debating whether or not to let him watch them. My heart says yes, with me alongside, but having thought about the scenes I mentioned I'm still deciding!

I do agree with you on all other points and as much as I, as an adult builder and collector of Lego, would like to see more AFOL-themed content, I appreciate it's not made for us, it's for the kids. I'll just have to make my own ;)

Posted by oddtodd in United States, 08 May 2012 12:05

Has everyone forgotten about the disturbing terrorism subplot in BTTF? Libyans with a rocket launcher, plutonium for a nuke? No way that's getting past LEGO review. Not to mention Doc taking an AK-47 to the chest.

Posted by uscoaster in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 12:43

This was just posted to the Cuusoo Facebook page and looks like it was posted to their blog 20+ hours ago and gives a broader look at their policies and mention they have been prescreening projects for a while now in an effort to limit problems in the future.
http://legocuusoo.posterous.com/brand-standards-what-makes-an-appropriate-leg

Posted by vynsane in United States, 08 May 2012 12:47

My 5 y/o daughter routinely asks to watch 'Empire Strikes Back' by saying "Let's watch the one where Luke gets his hand cut off". Make of that what you will (even if what you will is "he's a really bad parent"). That said, she's still yet to have seen 'Revenge of the Sith' - it's just a bit more than I want her to see at this point. She's also yet to have seen any Indiana Jones movies, even though I can barely wait to share them with her...

Hopefully the ultimate outcome of all this will be a push toward a greater number of high-quality, non-licensed ideas, complete with more 'realistic' support for them. Licensed properties will obviously garner more main-stream 'support' as we've already seen, but I'm still trepidatious that the main-stream support could end up being fair-weather-friend only, possibly leading to over-inflated numbers that won't match up to sales once the idea comes to fruition. At the end of the day, adult-oriented LEGO themes will sell mostly to AFoLs, with some sales to voracious adult non-FoL IP fans. TLG has made it clear: Kids are the focus. And kids don't know Firefly or Shaun of the Dead. I think they'll be hard-pressed to give the nod to EVE Online or BttF because of recognizability to the core demographic.

So, AFoLs - let's work towards quality, non-licensed, kid-friendly themes. They may not rocket up the charts to 10k the way licensed properties will, but a slow and steady path to the top may be just the 'support' we're really looking for!

Posted by powerpig in Canada, 08 May 2012 12:48

I'm happy that Lego has more or less drawn a line in the sand for all projects on Cuusoo. If the model is tied to a franchise that is full of mature themes and/or graphic violence, it won't make it past the review process. It might not stop all debate—many of us still have mixed feelings about the restriction—but now we all know what to expect.

Posted by lovaquero in United States, 08 May 2012 12:57

interiesting - just found out about this from the CUUSOO corner forum thread:

http://legocuusoo.posterous.com/brand-standards-what-makes-an-appropriate-leg

I'm glad I'm not on the team that gets to enforce and explain this. As others have pointed out, quite a few CURRENT (and recent) Lego themes seem to contain quite a few items off the list, to varying degrees.

It's a classic "where do we draw the line" problem, given today's 'standards' for entertainment...

Posted by rockbrick in Gibraltar, 08 May 2012 13:02

^^^ no one has left a comment on that blog yet? c'mon guys

Posted by Paul Boratko in United States, 08 May 2012 13:20

"• Sex, drugs, or smoking"

Doesn't the 10220 Volkswagon T1 Camper Van have a marijuana plant in it...?

I thought that was a nice touch by the way...

Posted by WDB in Belgium, 08 May 2012 13:25

Let'go for a brand new SciFi line http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/1718# ;-)

Posted by Zrath in United States, 08 May 2012 13:47

Personally, I don't think Lego will approve any Cuusoo project that requires licensing of some kind.
Yes, I know they approved Minecraft, but that's only because they're neighbors and the owner of Minecraft is super cool and mellow. :)
So stop building Battlestar Galactica and Firefly sets 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

Posted by Irene in United States, 08 May 2012 13:54

So. Let us accept that this item was turned down.

I'd love to build/package a Firefly set for a friend that is a HUGE Serenity fan.

How would we go about this? Does Cuusoo license the instructions? Does Lego still box sets if I order all of the parts from them?
[I've recently seen a very nice Sikorsky Helicopter that does not appear anywhere. Except, perhaps, in the designer's skill. ]

I'd also love to have the Stage coach from the Western street that hasn't made it to 10,000 yet.

Posted by Paul Boratko in United States, 08 May 2012 14:03

I would also think that a deciding factor for Lego to go ahead with a licensed project is if they can also do something with it in the future... Seems a little silly to go through all of the trouble going through all of the ropes just for one set... Then again the Lamborghini License only produced 2 sets..

I am sure that there is more to it than just the "Guidelines" that Lego has put out for all to see... It's a business about making money first and secondly pleasing the fans... I am sure this Firefly model was looked at from a Finacial standpoint first and foremost...

Posted by copperwonder96 in United States, 08 May 2012 14:09

Note to future posters on Cuusoo: Lego will reject your license model if any plot line involves "eating people alive" See Shaun of the Dead and Reavers...

Posted by suckerpunch83 in Canada, 08 May 2012 14:22

I can honestly say I have never heard of this spaceship OR TV show. As other comments on here here suggest, I agree with LEGO 100%. Make something that will appeal to a large audience rather than some show that has a so-so cult following. If it gains 10,000 votes, it's likely to be made (if it doesn't need a license). Remember people, just because you like something, doesn't mean it WILL be made. Lego needs to make a profit too. Just. sayin'.

Posted by ninjagoyo in United States, 08 May 2012 14:36

However, "eating people dead after you kill them" is just fine and in fact there is a set with the word "Cannibal" in it!
Glad we have this moral clarity now!
Again, I don't begrudge LEGO to be as arbitrary as they like. It's their prerogative.
But since we can all easily see it's a double standard and/or pretense for avoiding certain licensing quagmires...
we should act accordingly. Ie, if an idea is promising enough, they might bend the rules. People shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing their licensed MOC dreams.
Case in point, modern military. Toy Story army men sidestepped that. If they thought there was money to be made from, say, a set of a scene where Hulk tosses HUMVEEs around, then there would be a LEGO HUMVEE in no time.
Every one of those rules is going to flex in proportion to market power. So be of good cheer, CUUSOO warriors! Keep fighting for your ideas.

Posted by gunslinger69 in United States, 08 May 2012 15:00

Instead of complaining let's test lego vote up the UCS SANDCRAWLER they have to bulid that it's star wars and it is a bad ass set.

Posted by alorian in United States, 08 May 2012 15:26

Hesitant as I am to wade into this hair splitting, I see this debate like this.

Shaun of the Dead = About Killing Zombies
Lego Monster Sets = Have Zombies in them and maybe chasing and scaring people or being chased by other people

Firefly = About Killing Reavers
Star Wars = About the Force and Saving the Galaxy and Jedi and Good and Evil and Spaceships etc. and sometimes there is violence and messy killing but it is not the Plot Of Show.

See what I'm getting at here? It's oversimplified (So don't start up about the nuances of these shows, I'm aware they're well-regarded and I'm not trying to pick on them), but if Lego is making these calls not based on what these shows CONTAIN, but about their PREVAILING THEMES, we can see a little more clearly where the line gets drawn.

We can point out the "well this has THIS in it" and "this is worse than that" till the cows come home, but I think these choices by Lego are based on broader distinctions. Not to mention, it's not just what the show has in it, it's who is watching it. If that "who" involves a lot of kids (even kids who sometimes get pushed down under the seat in the theater, like I did when the bad guys were melting in Raiders of the Lost Ark), it's going to be more likely to get the seal of approval. Most kids are watching Star Wars. They aren't watching Firefly.

tl;dr there is a difference between what a franchise CONTAINS and what it is ABOUT.

It's a nice build, I hear it's a good show, but I'm not surprised. Lego needs sales, it's a business. Lego sells mostly to kids and their parents and THEN to people like AOFLs and THEN after that to people who are fans of a single franchise and buy everything made for it. There is just not a broad enough target market for this set.

Posted by meyerc13 in United States, 08 May 2012 15:29

^^You forget what happened to the Jawas who sold the droids to Luke's uncle Owen. I don't think that will pass the Cuusoo standards team.

Posted by vynsane in United States, 08 May 2012 15:41

@alorian - one nitpick... Firefly can't be about killing Reavers, since Reavers are only brought up in the TV series as a sort-of urban legend/space boogieman. In the movie Serenity, while Reavers are a large part of the over-all narrative, killing them is but a small part. In point of fact, Firefly could easily coexist in the Star Wars universe, just an offshoot series about a ragtag group of smugglers trying to make their way in The Verse and not get caught by the Evil Empire. If they were in the SWU, I'm sure each character would have crossed paths with Han and/or Lando at some point.

Posted by itsaturkey in United States, 08 May 2012 15:43

The violence in SW is minimal, it's a revolutionary classic and it always will be, and almost all of it is kid-friendly. Sure, Ep. 1 has definitively evil bad guy cut in half (No blood, maybe some pink mist) Kids react differently to that then seeing a helpless victim being torn apart with blood splattering everywhere. Same as in Ep. 2, Anikan gets his hand cut off, NO blood. Ep. 3 is for sure the most violent of all, it implies Anikan cuts of Count Dooku's head, but you don't see blood squirting out. You see a blue figure vaguely slicing small figures, no blood. Now I'm not going to defend Anikan burning, that is graphic. Even if you close the kids eyes you can hear Anikan screeching. Ep. 4 you see two burnt corpses, which took me as a kid watching it 7 times to notice it. A aliens arm is cut off and you do see blood (Unrealistic as it is) but personally I laughed when I saw it because it was so obviously fake. Ep. 5 has a Yeti's arm being sliced off, some blood is seen, but none is seen squirting out. Yes, there is violence and 'some' blood in Star Wars. But overall the people that are inflicted with this are 'bad guys', so in the black and white world it's OK. And that is all Lego cares about, that parents will let their kids buy it, or buy it for them. And be honest those that are saying that SW is extremely violent and comparing it to Firefly, would you let your kids buy SW set, and a Firefly set?

Posted by BrickBob09 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 15:46

There are two reasons why it didn't pass:

1) It was appropriate for the core target audience, mainly due to the violence.
2) I doubt it would have sold, as the core target audience (and even some outside it) never heard of it. If the release of sets tied in with a new film or TV series, then this point would have passed. LEGO aren't going to through money away.

Two reasons. That's all.

EDIT: ^There's no blood as lightsabres cauterize as fast as they cut ;) I guess it's a similar issue with blasters. SW was obviously designed with this in mind to be more family-friendly.

Posted by rosney in United States, 08 May 2012 15:58

@itsaturkey "The violence in SW is minimal..."

Lots of battles, lots of individuals die and lots of ships full of individuals die, minimal compared to the three big ones...

1) Death Star 1: ~30 million
2) Death Star 2: ~40 million

Even those two pale compared to...

3) Alderaan: ~2 billion

Just because you're looking at it from far away doesn't mean it's not poignant.

Posted by Venunder in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 16:00

On the plus side we now know that a Serenity ship can be built.

If we ask the creator nicely they might just post instructions???

Then we can build our own ships if we want to.......

Posted by LEGOSLUG in New Zealand, 08 May 2012 16:00

^ Who would wanna build it anyway? It doesn't even LOOK that great...
@ Yellowcastle: You've hit the nail on the head!

Posted by CapnRex101 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 16:16

Not very surprised...

Posted by Vycoul in United States, 08 May 2012 16:29

I have never heard of this TV show (?) before, could anyone give me an example of the violence in this show?

Posted by Paul Boratko in United States, 08 May 2012 16:46

I honestly don't think this rejection has anything to do with the manner in which creatures/people were killed/disfigured because Lego is currently using multiple themes that revolve around fighting(In fact most of Lego's themes have some type of Good vs Evil battle going on)... There could be 100's of Ideas/Models that make it through, but Lego is only going to use what is the the most practical that will make them money and of course they are not going to come right out and say "We don't think this is a good idea" they are going to use other ways to say it as not to hurt anyone's feelings...

Posted by kwilder in United States, 08 May 2012 17:10

@vynsane

In the TV show the Reavers are not "only brought up in the TV series as a sort-of urban legend/space boogieman," you actually see a reaver up close in one of the episodes, and that episode depicts the facial mutilation that the person inflicted on themselves. Facial mutilation is also probably not appropriate for the "target audience." I do agree with your point that serenity could coexist with SW.

Posted by CapnRex101 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 17:11

I think the Western town should be over the threshold within a couple of days.

Posted by aquafreak125 in United Kingdom, 08 May 2012 17:16

I agree with Huw, thought the model itself is awesome and has that "Official" style quality to it, there are some themes Lego will refuse in relation to the target audience. For example the Winchester Pub looked great, but because of the franchise it belonged to, Lego can't make it in the first place. If they didn't stick by this sentiment then Cuusoo would be flooded with ideas that would belong to all genres that may be unsuitable for young audiences, and that wouldn't stay true to Lego's main purpose of "Play Well".

Posted by itsaturkey in United States, 08 May 2012 21:12

BrickBob09 - Yeah, pretty much :P The heat seals the wound before blood comes out...except for that unfortunate alien :)
Tensor - Oh please. You don't see anyone die. There is obvious and clear difference between implied death and someone being ripped to shreds by a alien. And how did you even get those numbers? Did Wookiepedia actually count every square inch of the Death Star? And it's fictional. It's not real, or even realistic. Comparing a plastic model planets destruction that you have 0% connection to, to seeing a real live human being mauled is blatantly ridiculous. Plus with modern CGI the latter is much more realistic.

Posted by speed27 in Australia, 09 May 2012 01:47

again i think some of the stuff on neo classic space needs to be put up. new versions of 918/924/928 some gound vehicles and a base or two. the builds i think would need to be down the studs up line and not SNOT although as long as the part count was low enough SNOT is a viable build technique as long as it is swooshable. i have a project or two in the works but renos and kids take up my time! pete ried and co save us from more alien conquest (although earth hq was a good set)

Posted by 18000pieces in United States, 09 May 2012 18:08

Did anyone ever really think that a series that includes the line "They'll rape us to death, sew our skins into their cloaks, and eat our flesh. And if we're lucky, they'll do it in that order," would make it into an official Lego set? Come on, people.

Posted by ninjagoyo in United States, 09 May 2012 20:30

Did anyone ever think a movie that has the line, "As if billions of voices cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced." would make it into an official Lego set? Come on, people.
When they do the X-Men line, will they have a playset of young Magneto being dragged away from the gates of a concentration camp?

Posted by tbone_tbl in United States, 09 May 2012 22:19

Venunder, why yes I am planning on redesigning the model to be minifig compatible and yes there will be instructions.
LEGOSLUG I missed where I or anyone, was forcing or even asking you to.

Why do you think Lego tried to hide behind the violence on first go around? Seems like it would have been better for them if they came out the first time and say they decided against it because of Inara being a prostitute.
In fact the email cuusoo sent me when they took the project down said it had been taken down because it had "content related to realistic or extreme violence." Anyone else find it weird?

Posted by Paul Boratko in United States, 10 May 2012 00:54

I had no idea what your project was because I had never heard of the Movie/Series and I looked it up and I must say that you did an absolutely fantastic job with your model and it is amazingly accurate...

Now let's talk about weird...

From your recent response that you received on your project, I can assume that basically any licensed theme that they feel isn't worthwhile is going to result into a deep investigation into it's theme until they find a reason why the Theme isn't right for their company rather than come right out and say it...

This is what it sounds like to me...

You are still in an elite class that hit a mark that for some of us is almost impossible.. You can always be proud of that...

Posted by Ebak in United Kingdom, 11 May 2012 08:55

As a fan of both LEGO and Firefly I am very disappointed in this ruling. I was looking forward to possibly buying this set (although I kinda knew this would happen).

However I feel that LEGO is being very unfair and somewhat hipocritical. Most LEGO sets depict violence that would eventually escalate into death with most of its themes and sets, Star Wars and Ninjago come to mind. Therefore I think its unfair that they say that there should be no link to death and voilence at all in the sets.

However, my biggest complaint is the Batman part of LEGO's range.

The comics interpret Catwoman as a prostitute who became a jewel thief. I find it very hipocritical that LEGO would gladly risk this link to their company and ignore it and then reject a prostitute character from another series. Granted Inara's current occupation is prostitute, so I can see that part.

I also resent Huw's comment: "let's see if we AFOLs can get models that we want, as opposed to what wannabe AFOLs want"

I resent this in many different ways...to start...who gives you the right to define what an AFOL is? Furthermore...you use the Modular Western Town as an example of a set that should be approved. While I too would like a Modular Western Town, I think it stands for itself that if the damn thing is struggling to make 10,000 supporters then maybe there's a good reason why it shouldn't be made if TLG isn't going to make its money back.

End of Line.

Posted by tbone_tbl in United States, 11 May 2012 09:43

^^I haven't decided yet. I made a page where I'll be updating the progress of the redesigned model and the instructions.
https://www.facebook.com/CantTakeThebrickSkyFromMe

Posted by Alemas in Germany, 11 May 2012 10:05

@tbone_tbl: Nothing to do, my friend. Look at the update above. It's one of the characters who's the killer of the project. A redesign won't help.

Commenting has ended on this article.

Home

Browse

Sets released in...

New for 2013

Buy at LEGO.com

Buy LEGO books

Brickset merchandise

Amazon Bargain Watch lists

Compare EU Amazons

Log in to use the My Sets features

Get more out of Brickset

Cool stuff...

Site related

Get in touch