LEGO Ideas 21372 La Catrina revealed!

How awful... How did this get selected as a LEGO Ideas set? It's a complete mystery to me.

Feel the sting of the mighty Monarch!

Ooh, look. A lich!

These display-shelf sculptures of characters and creatures generally don't interest me, but this is pretty well done given the design brief. I wonder if my wife will want it.

The techniques to make the skull are genius, particularly the NPU of the minifig ruff for the teeth and the boomerang jawbone.
Not sure if my collection has room for it, but I might find a place

Another discount bin set no doubt. so many nicer ideas : (

Some interesting NPU, but overall I don't think this is an attractive model that I'd want to display, even just for Halloween or Cinco de Mayo, and that the colour choices really don't help it either. The original colours were clearly part of the theme and the reason to include the Monarch butterflies. The pink and blue and just garish. It also look very minimal for the cost and the parts count.

I much preferred the original ideas colour concept. Why did they change such a major part of the design?

Next time someone refers to "the dark corners of the internet", I might think about this set.

The original submission was spot on, this version just doesn't do it for me. Shame really as I would have bought it otherwise

@PurpleDave said:
"Ooh, look. A lich!"

I'm not too familiar with English folklore but I don't think Lichs fancy that kind of hat.

Different. It wasnt too bad until i saw the original submission, but that does look to be very expensive in terms of size and parts. Lego will you PLEASE think about adding another few colors to those ball and socket joints. Grey does not fit all.

Not a set I'm particularly interested in, but I do think it looks quite nice. And sure, not nearly as impressive as the original fan submission, but honestly, I feel for something rather niche as this, €120 is already pushing it. I don't know how many pieces the original had, but probably at least double if not triple? With the resulting price tag it would be pretty much impossible to sell.

Those teeth sure look ruff! Inspired part usage.

This is surely gonna be dead on arrival!

The original was lovely. I thought the orange was great as it works well for both Cinco de Mayo and for Halloween. I really dislike the dress now. The original was a consistent orange colour with black bodice and ruffles from top to bottom. Now they have three almost independent tiers to the dress with no consistency. So for me, they screwed up what made this look good. I might build the smaller version with their instructions but colour-switch it back as close as I can to the original. But as that was a major change, I won't need to buy this set at all.

@Denmark_Dragon said:
"Good command of color on dress frills. but definitely not a set i would buy. My best guess is this is something people of Mexican/Hispanic heritage would buy? Funny I am part Spanish but I wouldn't be interested."

The holiday is specifically Mexican; Spanish people typically have no reason to celebrate unless they are also Mexican.

---
This is my personal "LEGO ruined it" after dozens of IDEAS sets I had no problem with, changes-wise. The original model's costume looked so much better to me and the LEGO result has significantly dampened the appeal.

This probably isn't for me, but the colors are much better in the official set. Looking at pictures of people dressed up as La Catrina, many of them are bright and multi-colored.

I don't mind the fact that it was downsized, but I do think it's a bummer that the original monarch-themed costume was abandoned.

I love the minifigure ruffle used for the teeth--very clever!

@Denmark_Dragon said:
"Good command of color on dress frills. but definitely not a set i would buy. My best guess is this is something people of Mexican/Hispanic heritage would buy? Funny I am part Spanish but I wouldn't be interested."

Us Mexicans are well aware you're not interested

Really nice parts usage on the skull.

I think this looks great!

I like it. It looks better than the original, to me. A bit pricey but would be a nice addition to my Halloween display.

I think it’s great that Lego release sets from different cultures. I like the Chinese themes and Japanese themes too.

@Sealord75369 said:
" @Denmark_Dragon said:
"Good command of color on dress frills. but definitely not a set i would buy. My best guess is this is something people of Mexican/Hispanic heritage would buy? Funny I am part Spanish but I wouldn't be interested."

Us Mexicans are well aware you're not interested"

Good to know.

NPU in this set! But i prefered the original color scheme. Won't buy it, but... I do wish there will be a "Dia de los Muertos" set in the new Midnight Valley Collection one day... :)

She must have gotten titanium wrists before she died.

@GrizBe said:
"Some interesting NPU, but overall I don't think this is an attractive model that I'd want to display, even just for Halloween or Cinco de Mayo…"

@CCC said:
"The original was lovely. I thought the orange was great as it works well for both Cinco de Mayo and for Halloween."

She’s associated with Dia de Muertos, which follows on the heels of Halloween. Cinco de Mayo is the celebration of Americans getting drunk and not knowing anything about Mexican history.

@jkb said:
" @PurpleDave said:
"Ooh, look. A lich!"

I'm not too familiar with English folklore but I don't think Lichs fancy that kind of hat."

You clearly haven’t been watching Pointy Hat’s “Which Lich?” series.

@merman said:
"Is that a 4L white axle connector in the arms?
I know a 5L was released last year but this one seems different. "

I can see a line bisecting each one, so looks like two pairs of 2L axle connectors.

If you click through to the Ideas submission you can see that the original designer had already produced an alternative colourway. I don’t think we need to get all that precious about the change considering that.

(It’s fine to simply prefer the orange version and wish they’d kept it, of course. Just maybe treating it as a violation of the design intent is a bit much.)

@PurpleDave said:
" @GrizBe said:
"Some interesting NPU, but overall I don't think this is an attractive model that I'd want to display, even just for Halloween or Cinco de Mayo…"

@CCC said:
"The original was lovely. I thought the orange was great as it works well for both Cinco de Mayo and for Halloween."

She’s associated with Dia de Muertos, which follows on the heels of Halloween. Cinco de Mayo is the celebration of Americans getting drunk and not knowing anything about Mexican history."

Whoops. Dunno how my brain mixed those two up. I meant Dia de Meurtos.

I think it looks great. The original is fantastic too, but - as the article here clearly states - it was nearly 1M tall, which is enormous and would be incredibly expensive. And the very same people complaining that the submission was redesigned would be complaining that it was too expensive.

At any rate, time will tell if it sells or not - the self-appointed market experts here might end up being right, but if so it will be by chance not by any actual understanding of the full range of folks who buy Lego.

I LOVE IT!! Another first day purchase besides Mayor Manor for me. My spooky display is getting heaps of upgrades this year!!

Damn the ruff pieces for the teeth is fantastic piece use

For everyone else in the comments: many AFOLs in Mexico and the southwest US will love this. Don't knock cultural items just because they're not relevant to you - a lot of us over here didn't care for the football/soccer stadiums either, but they can still be appreciated.

As for the set itself, it's a beautiful design although the price is a bit high for a somewhat niche item (see: BTS Dynamite). The gray wrist joints are frustrating... is she a museum display now?

I have zero affinity with this culturally, but I think it looks absolutely dope and it will be one of the first ideas sets to be part of my collection in a while.

@KingShark9500 said:
"For everyone else in the comments: many AFOLs in Mexico and the southwest US will love this. Don't knock cultural items just because they're not relevant to you - a lot of us over here didn't care for the football/soccer stadiums either, but they can still be appreciated.

As for the set itself, it's a beautiful design although the price is a bit high for a somewhat niche item (see: BTS Dynamite). The gray wrist joints are frustrating... is she a museum display now?"

I don't see that many people "knocking cultural items", just questioning the worldwide demand for what you yourself call a "niche item".

But it's interesting you bring up those football stadiums. Despite an estimated 3.5 to 5 billion football fans in the world, those sets sold like crap. Now Mexico has 128 million people, and chances are a lot of them will like this set......just like many of them are football fans. Makes me wonder what would sell better in Mexico: This set, or a somewhat more sensible sized/priced set of Estadio Azteca?

@Hiratha said:
"If you click through to the Ideas submission you can see that the original designer had already produced an alternative colourway. I don’t think we need to get all that precious about the change considering that.

(It’s fine to simply prefer the orange version and wish they’d kept it, of course. Just maybe treating it as a violation of the design intent is a bit much.)"

Clearly they should have made it purple. The dress, the skeleton, and all the different shades in the prints. And I am deeply offended that they didn’t.

I don’t need something to be part of my ancestral cultural background to find it interesting or beautiful, and the Day of the Dead is hardly an unheard-of holiday outside of Mexico.

The Book of Life came out in 2014. Coco was 2017. Grim Fandango was 1998. Mattel produces Day of the Dead inspired Barbie & Ken & Monster High dolls every year. Lego themselves have been producing themed sets for years. Sugar skulls are used in commercially produced Halloween decorations all the time.

International works that take inspiration from the visuals and ideas of Day of the Dead aren’t as common as Christmas, but they’re not all that niche either. If you’re not especially familiar with it then you have much to explore and enjoy.

@KingShark9500 said:
"For everyone else in the comments: many AFOLs in Mexico and the southwest US will love this. Don't knock cultural items just because they're not relevant to you - a lot of us over here didn't care for the football/soccer stadiums either, but they can still be appreciated.

As for the set itself, it's a beautiful design although the price is a bit high for a somewhat niche item (see: BTS Dynamite). The gray wrist joints are frustrating... is she a museum display now?"

I’m not Hispanic or from the Southwestern US, but there may well be plenty of other people interested as well. I spent some time in Mexico and this will be be a very welcome reminder of a wonderful period during my life. I like this set very much & will get it on Day 1. That said, I had seen & supported the original design (there was a pink dress, too!) and was thrilled when it was selected as an Ideas set. I’ve been impatiently waiting ever since. Nevertheless, I do question whether so many alterations (other than size) were really needed. While I still like it very much indeed, I absolutely LOVED the original design. This is a beautiful set & I’ll be very happy to get it.

For those of you who have seen Coco, you should recognize that Dia de los Muertos is not about being scary or Halloweeny—it is a celebration of life for those who have passed on. It’s a day of honor, reverence and respect, just using iconography that many of use associate with horror and Halloween. The rituals it entails have more to do with Asian cultures and their shrines to their ancestors than frightening children.

@Hiratha said:
"I don’t need something to be part of my ancestral cultural background to find it interesting or beautiful, and the Day of the Dead is hardly an unheard-of holiday outside of Mexico.

The Book of Life came out in 2014. Coco was 2017. Grim Fandango was 1998. Mattel produces Day of the Dead inspired Barbie & Ken & Monster High dolls every year. Lego themselves have been producing themed sets for years. Sugar skulls are used in commercially produced Halloween decorations all the time.

International works that take inspiration from the visuals and ideas of Day of the Dead aren’t as common as Christmas, but they’re not all that niche either. If you’re not especially familiar with it then you have much to explore and enjoy."

Very well put. Even as somebody who didn't grow up celebrating Dia de los Muertos, I definitely find this set really lovely! The colors are very festive, and compared to the more monochromatic look a lot of people seemed to prefer out of the submitted color schemes, it definitely calls to mind the multicolored floral motifs I'm used to seeing in Dia de los Muertos costumes and decorations .

Besides bringing down the price as others have noted, the reduced scale also removes the need for the support struts under the arms in the original submission, and allows for a cleaner and more elegant design for the ruffles of the dress. And the shaping of the skull looks phenomenal, with plenty of great NPU like Elisabethan neck ruffs for the teeth and boomerangs for the jawbone!

I definitely appreciate LEGO depicting a wider range of world holidays. In the future, I wonder if we might ever see a set inspired by South Asian holidays like Holi and Diwali (which are celebrated by Desi families around the world) or South and Central American Carnival celebrations.

@Lemerbrix06 said:
"Eh, it’s alright, but where’s Godzilla!"

Has it been a year since they announced the results? It takes about one year from “We’re making this,” to, “Here’s the final design.”

@Hiratha said:
"The Book of Life came out in 2014. Coco was 2017. Grim Fandango was 1998."

Coco 2 is in the planning stages, but doesn’t yet have a release year.

@AustinPowers said:
" @lusci said:
"How awful... How did this get selected as a LEGO Ideas set? It's a complete mystery to me."
Same here.
Having had to deal with death in my family and with friends more than enough over the past few years, I don't want anything that reminds me of the subject.
I find this set disgusting for that very reason. Even at a substantial discount I wouldn't consider buying it. Heck, if someone gifted this to me I would give it right back. Never would I want such an ugly monstrosity anywhere near me or anyone close to me. "

Dia de Muertos is a unique spin on what Christendom celebrate(s/d) as All Saints Day. It’s about gathering together to be with your loved ones who are still living, and celebrating/remembering those who have passed away. I don’t know how authentic Pixar’s Coco is to the specifics, but in that film, once a deceased person is no longer remembered by anyone still living, that deceased person’s spirit fades into nothingness. So by celebrating Dia de Muertos, they believe they are giving their lost family members more time in the afterlife (well, in the film, that’s clearly how things do work).

So I’ve now lost 14 friends, family, and coworkers since late 2019, with a strong likelihood that this number will increase within the next year, and I don’t see anything offensive about Dia de Muertos iconography. I’m not exactly decorating my home with it, but I understand the beliefs behind it.

This is not a set that I'm likely to buy, but I do kind of like it. It's different, and therefor perfect for the Ideas program. I didn't remember the fan submission at first, so my initial reaction was that the actual set looks great. I find it immediately recognizable, even though my only encounters with what it represents is from movies, the occasional news article, and such. The contrast of the dark and morbid against distinct and powerful splashes of festive colors works really well with the Lego palette. The tall and slender form factor also works well for a display item like this.

The fan submission is incredible, though. But if you can't see how far from a realistic product it is, I don't know what to tell you. Of course it would go through a complete redesign. The scale just had come down. And I think they intentionally changed the color scheme to NOT be confused with a Halloween item, thereby paying more respect to the core idea. What I personally would miss from the original are the more anatomically correct forearms, with two bones. The simpler solution with just one bone there makes it look less like a skeleton and more like just a thin, cartoon style, arm.

Great idea. Probably a really good set. I'm not even bothered by the grey ball joints here, they blend in well enough this time.

For no particular reason beyond, of course, a natural desire to share relevant and comparable cultural practices from around the world, and surely nothing else, I feel the need to suggest people look up the Basilica of St. Ursula in Cologne, Germany. The Golden Chamber is decorated with human bones purported to be the remains of St Ursula and her 11,000 virgins.

(Clearly a woman after our own hearts. Such dedication to building a collection.)

(ETA: I’m pretty sure I can find an example for almost any other European country lest anyone else European but non-German thinks they’re safe to call other cultures depictions of death “disgusting” like it isn’t a completely normal thing for humans to do.)

Calling La Catrina or Dia de los Muertos "ghoulish" just betrays a level of stupidity I can't get behind. These things exist to celebrate the lives of the people you've lost, not their deaths. If you don't want to do that, fine, but try not to make that someone else's problem.

Brick Fanatics has an interesting article about the color. Apparently, the fan designer originally wanted a color scheme close to this, with blacks and pinks, but chose to use orange in the version submitted to Ideas because of the greater availability of orange parts at the time. The color choice of the production version was made in consultation with the fan designer and with someone of Mexican heritage on the Ideas team who very much understands the cultural significance of the pink color used. So, I'd say the production model is better than the Ideas fan model in every way. It's more stable and more accessible, and it honors the original concept of the fan designer better than even the fan designer's submission to the Ideas portal did. It's a win-win choice of color and scale.

https://www.brickfanatics.com/lego-ideas-la-catrina-had-feature-specific-colour

The comments on reveals for sets like this always serve to illuminate the Eurocentric bubble that the average Brickset user seems to operate in. It's gotten to the point that I hardly ever bother joining in on the conversation anymore; I don't think a lot of people that comment here understand that many of LEGO's adult-targeted sets A) are often targeted at younger adults in their 20s and early 30s rather than the now 40 to 50-year-olds that have historically dominated conversation about LEGO online and B) do not target as broad a market as classic LEGO themes like City or Star Wars. These Ideas/Icons/etc. sets can afford to be more niche and appeal to a smaller target audience, and I think that's a good thing.

This set is fundamentally not made for the same people as, for example, the 10497 Galaxy Explorer — which, incidentally, was retired after only a year and a half and was constantly marked down in stores, at least in the US, but I never saw anybody smugly talking about how that proves that no one cares about space and LEGO should stop releasing space sets. Even if this set does wind up heavily discounted in Europe, the UK, etc., that doesn't mean that it's a failure. To me, La Catrina is comparable to the Chinese New Year sculpture sets — large models of iconography from a holiday that I don't personally celebrate, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the quality of the designs.

I'll also point out that the last LEGO Ideas set was based on the Tintin comics, which are hugely popular in Europe but have basically zero presence in North America, particularly the United States. LEGO makes sets that appeal to specific markets or demographics, but it seems like the complaints are much louder when the demographics in question are teenage girls or non-European cultures.

@AustinPowers: Um, wow. Uh.

@AustinPowers said:
"I loudly, proudly and publicly don't know what I'm talking about and make no efforts to remedy that, but this will not stop me from having Strong Opinions on the subject, regardless."

Weird brag, but okay.

@AustinPowers said:
" @Crux said:
"Calling La Catrina or Dia de los Muertos "ghoulish" just betrays a level of stupidity I can't get behind. These things exist to celebrate the lives of the people you've lost, not their deaths. If you don't want to do that, fine, but try not to make that someone else's problem."
For someone who isn't into the lore behind this thing it just looks like a disgusting comical rendition of death in a dress, which in turn makes it look as if it's making a mockery of the deceased.
Don't expect everyone to know or have heard of some obscure Mexican holiday, just like I don't expect you to know about every German holiday or ritual (of which I wouldn't buy a LEGO set for either).
A set about Koalas, or other animals, or all kinds of cars, or even IPs of all kinds, from Harry Potter to Minecraft to Star Wars to Nintendo can all be called either interesting or forgettable, but seeing this on shelves is just gross, and to the average customer over here will come across as such and will need explaining by LEGO store staff because the average consumer over here will never have heard of the festivities this is based on. At best some will think it's a Halloween decoration set launched too early in the year. "

You should stop digging.

Not my culture or religion so I don’t get it. Therefore I hate it. Why does LEGO not tailor to only the needs of me or my personal circle?

On another note, my black cat just died and they made the dress black and it’s about dead. So inconsiderate of LEGO that I’m thinking of boycotting their isles for a while.

On a more serious note. I really like how it turned out. Not sure if I would pay full price for it but will keep eye on it for a potential discount.

@R0Sch said:
" @BLProductions The reason is that the prices TLG is charging has nothing to do with piece count or licensing, size, new parts,... Those are just random numbers that customers are willing to pay, nothing more."
Oh, I know. And technically, in a free market, that's the right way to price things. I just found it interesting how LEGO nearly managed to have a rare spot of consistency with those three sets.

@iwybs Thanks for sharing that article. I knew I wasn't going insane that I thought the official set's dress was more realistic than the fan model's, and I'm glad to hear the fan designer actually wanted it this way, rather than LEGO's designers just changing things for the sake of it. Hopefully that article gets more attention so people stop complaining.

@Crux said:
"Weird brag, but okay."
He's a German "LEGO fan"; what else did you expect? In the YouTube space we call people like him grifters.

@AustinPowers said:
"For someone who isn't into the lore behind this thing it just looks like a disgusting comical rendition of death in a dress..."
Lore? It's not that complex. But maybe think of it as a rendition of what your ancestors did to a certain segment of their own people back in the late 1930's (ignoring the hat, I guess)? As a good reminder, you know - those who forget history are doomed to repeat it and all that.
"Don't expect everyone to know or have heard of some obscure Mexican holiday, just like I don't expect you to know about every German holiday or ritual..."
It's very much not an "obscure" Mexican holiday - I live under a rock and haven't seen any of the material people in the comments above mentioned, yet even I know what it is. Like Chinese New Year, it's fairly global. Same with the only German "holiday" I know of (besides their French holiday last century), Oktoberfest. LEGO is not going to sell sets of "obscure" things globally; you know that.
"... the average consumer over here will never have heard of the festivities this is based on."
You know, you could stand to be a little less condescending. You're now insulting the intelligence of all Germans by stating they can't know more than you do; i.e., you're the most knowledgeable and world-wise German to ever Germ. Somehow, I very much doubt that.

@mr_jimboster said:
"So is lego now going to make sets to represent other cultures' afterlife traditions as well or cherry pick certain ones to make them look woke?"

what in god's name are you talking about. this was an ideas submission. that people voted for. because they wanted to see it made. what.

Remember, brothers and sisters. Do not mourn those we've lost to their own hubris, ignorance and willful stupidity. Do not mourn those who've buried themselves, digging deeper and deeper into their own yawning graves. Do not mourn their indignant deaths or the death of dignity - celebrate that there was dignity to lose. Recall that dignity, and rejoice.

Oh, right. Something something something 'THE WOKES'. Apologies to that other novice ragebaiter, but if you're not going to put the effort in, this is the best reply you can hope to expect.

@mr_jimboster said:
"So is lego now going to make sets to represent other cultures' afterlife traditions as well or cherry pick certain ones to make them look woke?"

And THERE'S the American Shithead going mask-off because he's pissed other cultures get representation.

Fuck, you.

@AustinPowers said:
"Apparently Oktoberfest, Lederhosen, Neuschwanstein and yodeling are the first things Americans think of when someone says "Germany". Oh and maybe Hitler, of course, because who is the most famous "German" in history after all?"

Pretty much. I very much doubt it’s just the US that thinks that way, same as the entire world seems to think all Americans walk around wearing cowboy hats, chaps, and have old-timey six-shooters hanging off their hips, or they immediately go to the chattel slavery plantation days. Or how Japan will always be associated with samurai, ronin, and peasants getting their heads chopped off for the most minor offenses (and also for WWII). You can’t escape your cultural heritage, be it good, bad, or something that’s only worth remembering to make sure it never, ever happens again.

@mr_jimboster said:
"So is lego now going to make sets to represent other cultures' afterlife traditions as well or cherry pick certain ones to make them look woke?"

In general, LEGO tends to stick to holiday/seasonal sets based on secular holiday traditions (e.g. Christmas markets or Santa's workshop instead of nativities for Christmas, or egg painting and bunny rabbits for Easter). This one is no different. If that is enough to qualify as "woke", then LEGO has been "woke" for decades.

@mr_jimboster said:
" @Lucina said:
" @mr_jimboster said:
"So is lego now going to make sets to represent other cultures' afterlife traditions as well or cherry pick certain ones to make them look woke?"

what in god's name are you talking about. this was an ideas submission. that people voted for. because they wanted to see it made. what."

First, write proper grammar. You asked a question, use a question mark. Second, out of all the ideas submitted in the wave, lego still picked it on top of like 5 other submissions from the small 57 set wave. The next wave with over 100 submissions, they picked 4 sets. The set violates lego's own submission rules of no religious symbols and death. There are other sets from the wave and other waves that have better designs that should have been sets and yet lego cherry picks this one. I want an angel set now but knowing lego, they won't do it. "

Uh, wait, you think SKELETONS violate the Ideas guideline against death? Somebody should tell the designers of all these sets: https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Skeletons/theme-Ideas

Or maybe, just MAYBE, the word "death" in that guideline was always meant to be understood in the sense of "don't submit scenes of people dying", and most LEGO fans with good sense already figured that out quite some time ago.

Furthermore, you seem to be wildly misinformed about what La Catrina is — she is not and has never been a religious figure! She's a secular figure symbolizing the holiday spirit and associated traditions, much like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

On that note, I find it weird that you present an angel as a hypothetical counterexample. Dia de los Muertos is itself already a holiday heavily rooted in Christian traditions. However, much like Christmas or Easter, various secular imagery and traditions have also become associated with it over the years, and it's those aspects of the holiday that are represented here.

@gsmayes said:
"I don't see where the 1200 pieces went. This would be a nice seasonal set for $50."

I think it's time for a lot of Bricksetters to just admit you're bad at seeing where piece counts go.

@Andrusi said:
" @gsmayes said:
"I don't see where the 1200 pieces went. This would be a nice seasonal set for $50."

I think it's time for a lot of Bricksetters to just admit you're bad at seeing where piece counts go."

I admit that a lot of Bricksetters are bad at seeing where the piece counts go.