Why has 77014 The Temple of Doom been cancelled?
Posted by CapnRex101,
Earlier this year, rumours began to emerge that LEGO Indiana Jones would be returning in 2023, comprising four sets numbered between 77012 and 77015.
Images of the sets subsequently leaked and the new range has now been officially announced, with one significant omission, as 77014 The Temple of Doom has seemingly been cancelled. While LEGO product cancellations are relatively common, this example is unusual because this set was exhibited at Nuremberg Toy Fair and images have leaked online.
LEGO has provided a statement regarding the apparent cancellation, but we are going to examine this unusual occurrence more closely.
Before speculating about the reasons for this cancellation, here is the statement provided by LEGO:
Throughout 2022, the LEGO Group worked closely with Lucasfilm to optimise our planned product line up for the upcoming LEGO Indiana Jones product launches in April 2023.
As an outcome of this, we consolidated the launch to focus on three products (77012, 77013, 77015) that feature some of the most iconic scenes from the Indiana Jones franchise.
While an acknowledgement of this set's existence is welcome, I think it would be reasonable to say that this statement does not tell us very much. LEGO and its partners are always working to develop the best products possible, but something has evidently gone awry when a product is cancelled at such a late stage in development, for various possible reasons.
On that basis, I think we can assume there is more to the story.
Potential issues with 77014 The Temple of Doom
Given the inevitable interest surrounding this set and its cancellation, Fan Media have received permission to share the leaked images of 77014 The Temple of Doom. As you can see from this image, the layout seems rather close to 7199 The Temple of Doom from 2009, with a short mine cart track passing around the underground temple where Thuggee cult members worship Kali.
This version of the image has been upscaled using AI software:
The depiction of Kali, a real-world Hindu deity, is potentially problematic given LEGO's general avoidance of religious symbols and subjects. However, some might reasonably point out that the Monkie Kid and Chinese Traditional Festival sets already include LEGO depictions of Chinese deities. Moreover, 77013 Escape from the Lost Tomb contains the Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact.
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom has also been criticised for its portrayal of Indian culture since the film was released. Inspired by television serials of the early twentieth century, the film presents a rather negative caricature of India and one LEGO might choose to avoid altogether.
On the other hand, the entire Indiana Jones series has received some criticism for its arguable glorification of colonialist archaeology. The idol featured in 77015 Temple of the Golden Idol, for instance, is clearly something the Hovitos tribe considers sacred, but Indiana Jones is portrayed heroically for stealing it. On the other hand, the Hovitos are fictional, merely inspired by the real Chachapoya culture.
The presence of the Nazi fighter pilot in 77012 Fighter Plane Chase could also be considered problematic, so I can understand why the reasons for cancelling 77014 The Temple of Doom are unclear. After all, there are potential criticisms of the other sets as well.
Late product cancellations
Perhaps more important is considering how the set could reach such a late stage in production and be displayed at Nuremberg Toy Fair in February, only to be cancelled before the release in April. 42113 Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey was cancelled under similar circumstances, although that actually appeared on retailer's websites, whereas 77014 The Temple of Doom has not.
Given the apparent lateness of this cancellation, one wonders whether a few sets might escape into stores.
Personally, I was delighted to learn that LEGO Indiana Jones would be returning when rumours began to circulate earlier this year. I enjoy the films and loved the original sets produced in 2008 and 2009. However, I was also surprised to hear that the new sets would include 77012 Fighter Plane Chase and 77014 The Temple of Doom.
Only fifteen years have passed since LEGO Indiana Jones was introduced and these subjects were evidently considered acceptable. Even so, the company's success and growing influence has caused increased scrutiny of LEGO's brand values, which Indiana Jones challenges. Even though I would have liked 77014 The Temple of Doom to be released, I am not shocked by its cancellation.
Why do you think the set was presumably cancelled? Let us know in the comments.
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114 comments on this article
Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?
Even before it was cancelled, it was not a good set. It looks flimsy and the design is off and looks nothing like the film. It's not even a nice display model, and its price was probably $120. I understand people wished for TOD set, but personally I don't see a problem with its cancelation, regardless of the reasons.
@CapnRex101 you spelled "culture" with a V instead of a C when talking about the real Chachapoya people. just a heads up.
To be honest I’m not surprised it was cancelled. The film is exciting but even as a child I remember it being the “nastiest” of the films, for all sorts of reasons.
My biggest disappointment though it that it means a slot was taken that could have been filled with another set, though I struggle to come up with another scene that wouldn’t have been controversial (the finale sequence of Last Crusade would have been my preference!).
Either way, I’m mainly just happy that we have the Raiders opening sequence. That’s the only definite buy of the wave for me.
"Moreover, 77013 Escape from the Lost Tomb contains the Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Christian artefact."
Judeo-Christian, really more Jewish than anything else. The Ark features heavily in the Bible from Leviticus (where it's built) through the Babylonian era (presumably the Ark was lost when Babylon raided Jerusalem around 600 B.C.). It's literally now "lost," although the Ethiopian Catholic Church claims to currently possess it in one of their temples.
I'm a marketer and often work with our internal PR department and I am getting VERY tired of these companies and businesses giving half-assed, non-specific answers.
They try and sweep things under the rug and hope everyone forgets the issue, with hopes of protecting their brand image.
But IMO, treating your customer base like children and giving non-answers is so much worse than actually providing a response.
Image 'enhanced using AI' is being rather generous... Dali-esque filtering might be more apt. Everything looks melty and distorted.
@PetesBricks said:
"Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?"
Agree with this point – while I can understand the reasons for the company to be cautious, you would think those decisions should be finalized early in the product ideation stage and not after wasting so many internal resources. The Mandalay Bay omission from the Las Vegas set is one thing, as there is no way to know when a subject matter could be perceived in a different light due to changing external circumstances. But in a case like this one, nothing changed over the last year, and it makes the company look indecisive and lacking in conviction. If anything, demand for a new Short Round minifigure is higher than ever with Ke Huy Quan's career resurgence.
They probably aim at an expansion of the market in India. Thus, when in doubt, we avoid controversies and failed sales agreements.
I'm cynical, but if you have moral principles, you shouldn't even present Star Wars...the most loved character has "only" massacred children....now I'm going to be lynched :)
No matter what opinions you have about the Lego company and it's values, the cancellation of this set will conveniently serve as a confirmation of those preconceived notions...
I'd very much like the lego fan channels to answer a more pressing question, are we getting sets for the 5th movie, you'd think the whole point of rebooting the line would be to correspond with the new release, but the usual places have given no credible rumors, and the numbers we thought would be used Promobricks can find no evidence of. Honestly, as dissapointed as I am about the temple of doom getting canceled as that and the plane chase were the sets I didn't already have the old versions of, they existed previously and I can always search for a deal on 7199, but getting g nothing for the new film would be especially disappointing
I think it's fascinating how sets get this far in production only to be cancelled for something that should've been clear from the outset. I'm assuming Temple of Doom was cancelled because of the negative depiction of Indian culture. But if that's the case, why was it ever approved, designed, and produced in the first place?
@legoguy said:
"Image 'enhanced using AI' is being rather generous... Dali-esque filtering might be more apt. Everything looks melty and distorted."
It didn't have much to work with!
@Murdoch17 said:
" @CapnRex101 you spelled "culture" with a V instead of a C when talking about the real Chachapoya people. just a heads up."
Thank you, that has been corrected.
@ResIpsaLoquitur said:
""Moreover, 77013 Escape from the Lost Tomb contains the Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Christian artefact."
Judeo-Christian, really more Jewish than anything else. The Ark features heavily in the Bible from Leviticus (where it's built) through the Babylonian era (presumably the Ark was lost when Babylon raided Jerusalem around 600 B.C.). It's literally now "lost," although the Ethiopian Catholic Church claims to currently possess it in one of their temples."
Good point, thank you. I have updated the article.
Forget the Temple of Doom and the misappropriation of culture.
There is a new WHEEL ARCH people!!!
@PetesBricks said:
"Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?"
If the set was in fact cancelled or delayed for cultural sensitivity reasons, either by Lego or by their partner, then Lego should definitely learn to put those reviews earlier in the development process. It's possible someone changed their mind late in development, but good risk management processes should limit the chances of that happening.
There are multiple less problematic set ideas that they could have developed and that I hope are included later. In particular, the cargo plane escape and the minecart chase (independent of the temple) would be relatively straightforward. I don't know if their inroads in the Chinese market make a Shanghai nightclub set more or less likely.
As Huw notes, colonialism has always been a central element of Indiana Jones, and it is also the core ideology of the older works that inspired the franchise. If Indiana Jones is to remain viable, it will need to figure out how to adapt to the modern era, or else be relegated to the past it often replicated.
I figure the reason they're quiet about the why is they don't want to tell Indiana Jones fans their movie's racist while actively trying to sell products to Indiana Jones fans...
Lets see, the Indy theme has 'modern weapons', depictions of 'real world violence' and 'death' (presumably the fighter pilot is killed in the tunnel), 'religious artifacts' (golden skull, arc, grail), mysticism (search for grail, search for aforementioned ark, use of human hearts), and finally denigration of an entire subcontinent of people (Temple of Doom - which is also religious). Very hard to rectify any of this with regards to TLG's stated policies. My best guess is that the set was cancelled due to the depiction of Indian people.
That said, I would have loved a set based on the "kissing scene / rotating fire place" from Search for the Holy Grail.
@PetesBricks said:
"Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?"
i think, before the release no one knows which group will be offended about something and lego sees that only always after the leaks.
I can see why they wouldn't want to make this set. It's dark, and wired. Not the greatest for a children's toy. And I'm someone who's always liked Temple of Doom.
It clearly would have been a PR eyesore in this form, capturing all of the problematic qualities of the film. I think 7199 is less bad in this regard and rereleasing it would probably be a better way to do a set for the film instead.
I do wonder if there's another reason altogether factoring into this: Donkey Kong. There's probably a minecart set in the works there. Why release two so close together? Even more so if one is controversial.
@1265 said:
"Cancel culture."
Please tell me that's a joke
@PetesBricks said:
"Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?"
I would assume the Temple of Doom set was not produced at all. The leaked package image could be from a prototype mockup which was used in one of many alignment meetings with the licensee and marketing department. And in of these meetings or calls or whatever it was decided that the set won't be further part of the line and therefore no production was started.
Worth noting that the very first wave of Indiana Jones sets also excluded sets based on Temple of Doom; even back then it was a touchy subject matter to make Lego products of, and even then the first Temple of Doom set they released was based on the Shanghai chase and nothing to do with the titular location of human sacrifices and child slavery.
I definitely think a set or two based on the film should be made, but doing the temple itself as a playset feels like a mistake, which Lego evidently realized too late into production. I'd definitely be interested in a set just of the minecart chase or of the bridge showdown. While remaking the Shanghai chase would be safe, it only has inherent appeal to serious fans of cars; otherwise it's just a minifig pack.
I look at the picture and can't really see a very fun set in there, so am probably reading about the cancellation of a set I wasn't going to buy anyway. But if it had less temple and more mine cart rollercoaster, then the mine cart chase I would rewind and watch over and over and would absolutely have been in for.
Perhaps Lego can pay a little more attention to prevent issues like this where lots of resources have been wasted in a product that will never reach the shelves and by doing so hopefully reduce the need to increase prices to, among other things, cover for those losses.
Having personally worked with Lucas Film product licensing, I would bet money that it was Lucas Film that canceled the set. They are extremely squeamish and arbitrary about what can and cannot be depicted, and changing their minds at the last minute after previously green lighting something is par the course. If Lucas Film has a licensing agreement with Lego anything like their licensing agreements with other toy companies, they absolutely have the power to cancel something like this.
Always sorry to hear about these late-in-the game cancellations. And the reasons behind them not to mention all the other non-stated reasons.
I would also like to think that, perhaps, LEGO is now recognizing that it cannot keep cranking out sets with higher price points with no consequences. Every set pulls resources from another with respect to effort and elements. What are the chances that LEGO is now just trying to become more leaner and recognize that people have less disposable income. We already have a US$150 set that is more iconic...do we want to compete against ourselves for a sale of a $100+ set? Better to just focus on one with a better chance of success (iconic) than another mired in some controversy, as it had the first time it came out.
Yes, the last 4-5 months we have had a run of expensive sets but keep in mind that these had been in the works well before inflation started running rampant...they had no choice but to release them so as to cut losses and inventory (as sales soon after happened (Foosball/Hulkbuster/Black Panther). Figure LEGO will be very careful going forward with releases and timing.
I think it most likely has to do with a play feature then anything. While the set is geared to collector nostalgia, it's sold starting at a certain age group. With just 4 sets, something was incomplete with this one. The rest seem more fleshed out. It doesn't look like it fits at all and feels incomplete.
Lego isn't afraid to make offensive sets. When something is cancelled, TLG feels it won't sell well (such as overwatch which had nothing to do with the real problem). The most controversial set is one no one talks about. It is in the superhero line. When a character is only a handful of issues ever (prior to the set release) and they do THAT-- just surprised TLG made tarantula a Minifigure.
Lego still have reference to the ToD set in the description of the other sets:
'More movie action – Look out for the Fighter Plane Chase (77012), Escape from the Lost Tomb (77013) and The Temple of Doom (77014) LEGO® Indiana Jones™ sets'
I assume this is an oversight, and will be corrected - lots of missing space typos in the copy too, so the release has perhaps been a little rushed...
Props to Lego for allowing discussion of the leaked images. That's pretty cool.
Look at the wording:
Throughout 2022, the LEGO Group worked closely with Lucasfilm to optimise our planned product line up for the upcoming LEGO Indiana Jones product launches in April 2023.
As an outcome of this, we consolidated the launch to focus on three products (77012, 77013, 77015) that feature some of the most iconic scenes from the Indiana Jones franchise.
I think the inclusion of "optimise" and "April 2023" means they couldn't get the set finished in time for the movie's release, and it will come out in a new wave in a few months.
@moondrake said:
"They probably aim at an expansion of the market in India. Thus, when in doubt, we avoid controversies and failed sales agreements.
I'm cynical, but if you have moral principles, you shouldn't even present Star Wars...the most loved character has "only" massacred children....now I'm going to be lynched :)
"
If I was Indian I'd love this set! When playing with it I could make the Indians win if I wanted to.
If "cancel culture" was really to blame then NONE of these sets would have been produced.
It's clearly some other reason.
I'm really curious what Lego will do if China invade Taiwan... This would be a real test for them.
Customer service has officially said it's not canceled
I think Lego could be cowardly woke with the reason here trying to offend no one, but more likely it's a simple dollar calculation, with a big loss for them if it didn't absolutely sell out due to minifigs and other costly parts like the tracks.
@ResIpsaLoquitur actually it predates "Jewish," Hebrew is probably more accurate. If you say Jewish/Judaic, which is a post-Exilic, then Christian qualifies as well, i.e. those that venerate the Torah. So Judeo-Christian is more accurate that "Jewish."
@Binary_Code said:
"No matter what opinions you have about the Lego company and it's values, the cancellation of this set will conveniently serve as a confirmation of those preconceived notions..."
When Lego doesn't say why they're doing something, everyone (self included) jumps at a reason. When they DO say something, anyone who disagrees says that's not the real reason. Yet some believe the answer is that they should give us more reasons. /Shrug
Funny that this announcement should arrive the morning after Harrison Ford and Ke Huy Quan had a heartwarming TOD reunion at the Oscars.
If that isn't enough to change Lego's mind about the affection people have for this film/the demand fot this set (assuming Lego *has* cancelled it entirely, rather than simply delayed it), I don't know what else will.
@Commander_jonas said:
"Customer service has officially said it's not canceled"
I would be rather surprised if LEGO customer service acknowledges the existence of the set, but where have you heard that?
It is possible that the set has been merely delayed, but I think LEGO would emphasise that in the statement, if so.
@PetesBricks said:
"Why do they even let sets get this far into production, only to decide to cancel them for whatever reason? Remember the City dynamite factory? Or the rescue Technic Osprey?"
Because they're amateurs. What other reason should it be?
‘Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact. ‘
What?
There might also be some story cross-over with the new movie, as a lot of sequels now re-visit iconic locations from earlier films. Maybe the set will be held back till the release in June?
Aye. Sucks about Short Round and Willie. Hope we see them elsewhere soon enough. Completely understandable cancellation otherwise though. I am curious as to whether it was a Lucasfilm or LEGO decision in the end however.
@Samsonite_Bricks said:
"I'd very much like the lego fan channels to answer a more pressing question, are we getting sets for the 5th movie, you'd think the whole point of rebooting the line would be to correspond with the new release, but the usual places have given no credible rumors, and the numbers we thought would be used Promobricks can find no evidence of. Honestly, as dissapointed as I am about the temple of doom getting canceled as that and the plane chase were the sets I didn't already have the old versions of, they existed previously and I can always search for a deal on 7199, but getting g nothing for the new film would be especially disappointing "
The movie has been delayed several times, it's probably really hard to do marketing around those delays.
@legoguy said:
"Image 'enhanced using AI' is being rather generous... Dali-esque filtering might be more apt. Everything looks melty and distorted."
true. "We've upscaled the image using AI"
(insert extremely cursed looking image)
Did Lego make a statement saying it was cancelled? or has it simple been dropped from the initial release? Could it be as suggested its dropped down the priority list, problems with production, or even a design flaw, so it will be out, slightly improved in June? I have to ask if they do cancel any set there must be a ball park figure for costs to date, from initial concept to design and pre-production. And with Lego I imagine that's a big number.
Perhaps pulling the beating heart out of a living minifigure was just taking it too far ;)
15 years!? Man, time flies.
I think something worth noting about Indy is that, while he is a bit of a scoundrel, you can count on him to be heroic.
As flawed as it’s portrayal of the country is, he does seem to try and respect the village that brought him and his crew in. He even returns the artifacts that were stolen afterwards.
While his adventures do start with him seeking fortune and glory, he is also trying to prevent the artifacts from falling into even worse hands.
"On the other hand, the entire Indiana Jones series has received some criticism for its arguable glorification of colonialist archaeology. The idol featured in 77015 Temple of the Golden Idol, for instance, is clearly something the Hovitos tribe considers sacred, but Indiana Jones is portrayed heroically for stealing it."
In my opinion, those critics always get what Indy is about wrong.
First off, the films were made for the love of those old serials and for pure popcorn matinee movie entertainment. No more, no less.
The reason he goes out on these expeditions to get the artifacts, antiquities away from characters like Belloq, since they will cash in on these things for profit and exploitation. Indy's philosophy is, he'd never take from an indigenous people (see Temple of Doom) but if there are 'Raiders', he wants to beat them to it, and have it protected in a museum for ALL the world to see and know the history of these forgotten cultures (see The Last Crusade).
That's his overall philosophy. He's happy to work as a professor (except grading papers lol), not live a high life and use small artifacts to help sell to the museum to fund his 'adventures'. Again he doesn't do it for monetary gain. But to protect these priceless artifacts from people who'll exploit those indigenous cultures.
I know, we don't get ALL of this from the first movie, but his characters motivations gets a little more revealed in Temple and Crusade.
Then he fights Nazi's, Thugees, and the Soviets. Saves children in Temple of Doom too. Loves Marion and Shortround. All good no?
@parsom said:
"I'm really curious what Lego will do if China invade Taiwan... This would be a real test for them. "
I've been critical of Lego's kowtowing to China for a while. Many companies are hypocritical in their desperate attempts to access the Chinese market by appeasing a totalitarian surveillance state dictatorship, while on the other hand supposedly promoting equality and justice and anti-discrimination.
Oh well, it was the least liked of the films for the most part anyways.
Not sure why there's so much hate surrounding not getting 4 sets in this release. Personally, given the sensitivity inside and outside the Lego-verse, I think to get 3 of these is already incredible! Well done Lego!
Still holding out that the Temple of Doom set will get released next year for it's 40th Anniversary.
Not giving up on Indy, Shortround, Willie, the Sankara Stones, Mola Ram and Kai MA!
Bali Mangthi Kali Ma.
Shakthi Degi Kali Ma.
Kali ma... Kali ma... Kali ma, shakthi deh!
@CapnRex101 said:
" @Commander_jonas said:
"Customer service has officially said it's not canceled"
I would be rather surprised if LEGO customer service acknowledges the existence of the set, but where have you heard that?
It is possible that the set has been merely delayed, but I think LEGO would emphasise that in the statement, if so."
A lot of people posted that they've contacted customer service about the sudden coincidence of the set's disappearance ,customer services answered saying they're fixing the set for the moment and it will probably release later
This was almost certainly cancelled because of a combination of Temple of Doom being the least like of the original trilogy and a level of appropriation that is very, very bad. Maybe it is more the former, and Lego just realized that they needed to concentrate on three sets. But I'd also bet it's partly the latter. While all of Indy is problematic on some level, Temple of Doom is definitely the most problematic of the original trilogy since it portrays the cult as the villains. It's one thing to have an idol or the ark in a portrayal of colonialist archaeology, but the ark defeats the Nazis and there are probably bigger problems with how indigenous people were portrayed in the opening of Raiders.
And compared ot the ones that got released, it's definitely the least display worthy with its tilt towards play features
LucasFilm spiking the set because they no longer feel ToD is the best representation of their values, OR Lego spiking the set because of the Kali statue feel like the most likely reasons to me.
ToD has *never* received a lot of merchandise because of its content matter - the very last wave of Hasbro action figures released in the revival line for CRYSTAL SKULL were all ToD based and were VERY hard to find - so it's possible LucasFilm has reached the point where they just want to sweep it under the rug.
The Kali possibility also makes sense to me as it's not just a depiction of a deity, but a rather distorted and evil depiction of said deity.
Ironic that this conversation is happening a day after Ke Huy Quan aka Short Round won a freaking Oscar decades after he retired due to the poor quality roles offered to Asian Americans in movies. For his part, I'm glad that he'll be remembered for something more significant than being a pidgin-English speaking sidekick in a movie best described as "PROBLEMATIC" in its depiction of various Asian people and cultures.
And I say that as a fan of TEMPLE OF DOOM as well. It's a very exciting movie and I have fond memories of watching it as a kid, but it has some really racist stuff in it. The 1980s in general were not a great time for depictions of Asians in film...
The fact that they allow you to show the leaked image and say they wanted 3 sets for the INITIAL lineup leads me to believe it may be released later on. For the reason, I'm going with stability, like the marvel mechs last year. The back of the base looks like it would have a hard time holding anything up.
I'm incredibly disappointed that this set won't see the light of day. Fortunately, I own the previous incarnation of Temple of Doom but was really looking forward to this one (and those updated minifigs!).
I just don't understand how it could have made it this far into production and been canned...?
@1265 said:
"Cancel culture."
Lol, go cry about it.
Why are you calling this a cancellation? Lego's statement does not say ANYTHING AT ALL about 77014. It might have been cancelled. Or merely postponed. We don't know!
@ha21 said:
"While all of Indy is problematic on some level, Temple of Doom is definitely the most problematic of the original trilogy since it portrays the cult as the villains."
The Thuggee cult could *almost* be excused because they're clearly evil religious extremists, but other elements in the film compound the problem.
- The dinner scene, where non-Thuggee Indians are shown enjoying disgusting "food" consisting of bugs, live eels, and, of course, chilled monkey brains. Easily the segment of the film that has aged the worse, IMO.
- The British colonial army being portrayed in a heroic fashion, arriving at the last minute to help dispatch the Thuggee.
- Generalized misunderstanding and inaccurate depictions of the goddess Kali as some sort of demonic figure.
- Use of pidgin English by Short Round and pretty much every non-white character shown in the film. One of the few erudite Indians shown in the film is Chatter Lal, who is a bad guy.
- In fact, nearly ALL Asian men shown in the film are villains. The only ones who are not are women, children, the elderly guru, or the Indian soldiers who are part of the colonial army.
And again, I say this as someone who enjoys ToD from a purely cinematic level. Morseo than LAST CRUSADE, even! But to engage with art, one has to engage with it HONESTLY or you're not actually learning anything from the piece. The film's a nasty piece of work in many ways, one that just happens to be a lot of fun. (which might make it MORE insidious in some people's eyes, in truth)
@lippidp said:
" @moondrake said:
"They probably aim at an expansion of the market in India. Thus, when in doubt, we avoid controversies and failed sales agreements.
I'm cynical, but if you have moral principles, you shouldn't even present Star Wars...the most loved character has "only" massacred children....now I'm going to be lynched :)
"
If I was Indian I'd love this set! When playing with it I could make the Indians win if I wanted to."
Jesus Christ.
@AliveAndBricking said:
"Funny that this announcement should arrive the morning after Harrison Ford and Ke Huy Quan had a heartwarming TOD reunion at the Oscars.
If that isn't enough to change Lego's mind about the affection people have for this film/the demand fot this set (assuming Lego *has* cancelled it entirely, rather than simply delayed it), I don't know what else will."
You're mistaking the affection two actors have for each other to affection for their movie.
I also have better pictures of this set
@Fandabidozi said:
"‘Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact. ‘
What?"
Do I have to explain the whole Ethiopian Catholic Church thing again?
I read that TLG has been doing “secret” fan surveys lately, and that’s where all the leaks came from in the first place, so maybe it has something to do with that.
Of all the Indy movies, The Temple of Doom is the most stereotype in its depiction of ‘exotic’ cultures and their supposedly cruel rituals. A movie like that would never be made in these times.
So maybe they’ll make an update version where you can take a minifig heart from a minifig torso? Or maybe some plates with monkey brains
@ResIpsaLoquitur said:
" @Fandabidozi said:
"‘Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact. ‘
What?"
Do I have to explain the whole Ethiopian Catholic Church thing again?"
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church actually. :P
Does anyone know where Lego's go-to landfill is? It's bound to have this set.
Why openly speculate and encourage further speculation in the comment section, when we know literally nothing and have no means to confirm all this theorizing?
There could be any number of reasons (besides possible cultural sensitivity) for cancelling the set: logistical issues, production issues, higher production costs than projected, licensing costs/issues, actors not giving/revoking permission to use their likeness, negative sales projections, lack of interest from focus groups, a construction flaw in the design, etc. etc. It could be one or a combination of these reasons, which was simply found out after the set was already announced. LEGO employees are human too after all, and in any company mistakes are sometimes made and discovered too late. Yes, it’s annoying that LEGO doesn’t elaborate besides releasing a short statement, but that’s their right, we are not entitled to an explanation.
Of course you can’t prevent people from wondering what the reason for cancellation was, but speculation without any information (and highlighting cultural sensitivity specifically without *any* concrete facts to back that claim up - while a number of other reasons are just as likely), only encourages polarization in the fan community and helps propagating baseless myths that will roam around the Internet for years to come.
@Berrus_Brickus said:
" @ResIpsaLoquitur said:
" @Fandabidozi said:
"‘Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact. ‘
What?"
Do I have to explain the whole Ethiopian Catholic Church thing again?"
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church actually. :P"
There you go. AFAICT, it's one of the Churches in communion with the Roman Catholic Church, though. (Most people don't get that there's more than one Catholic Church.)
@ResIpsaLoquitur said:
" @Berrus_Brickus said:
" @ResIpsaLoquitur said:
" @Fandabidozi said:
"‘Ark of the Covenant, which is considered to be a real-world Judeo-Christian artefact. ‘
What?"
Do I have to explain the whole Ethiopian Catholic Church thing again?"
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church actually. :P"
There you go. AFAICT, it's one of the Churches in communion with the Roman Catholic Church, though. (Most people don't get that there's more than one Catholic Church.)"
It is not. They are Oriental Orthodox.
There are Ethiopian Catholics in communion with the RCC, but the church which claims to possess the Ark is Oriental Orthodox.
At least the worst set of the bunch got cancelled, the other 3 are way better in my opinion. It looks pretty flimsy, I would wager that's part of the reason for cancellation, they weren't happy with the finished design
@legoDad42 said:
"In my opinion, those critics always get what Indy is about wrong.
First off, the films were made for the love of those old serials and for pure popcorn matinee movie entertainment. No more, no less...."
I think this avoids the fundamental criticism of how media has worked and continues to work. Plenty of basic film criticism has shown the depths of racism present in the early pulp prose and golden age film serials of those earliest adventure stories. While Indiana Jones abandons some of the most colonialist elements, it keeps many of them, and the stories don't challenge or reject the basic racist premises. This is an inherent danger in modernizing older stories, as even if there's no explicit intent to retain the biases that informed the original work, that may not be enough to correct those problems.
@merman said:
"Of all the Indy movies, The Temple of Doom is the most stereotype in its depiction of ‘exotic’ cultures and their supposedly cruel rituals. A movie like that would never be made in these times. "
The question is, whether it says more about this movie or about these times...
Maybe one or more of the mechanisms just didn’t stand up to play wear and they’re busily updating it for general release in a second wave. It wouldn’t be the first time a set has been hastily and slightly re-engineered at the last minute.
I'm going with a production/playfeature error instead of the cultural/ethic issues. Lego has learned a lesson with the Osprey set and I really fail to believe that the ToD set was sacked last minute due to something other than a real error in the set itself. Funny fact: The Osprey set also suffered from technical issues, but that's a whole other discussion.
We'll probably see the set later on.
So much for some new figs joining the Indy Universe. Sometimes TLG can be dumb…
I've long recognised the issues with Temple of Doom. Even if we accept that the villains aren't supposed to be representative of Indians, and are merely an absurd cult, one can't escape the 'white saviour' narrative, whereby those Indian characters who *aren't* villainous are otherwise helpless and need rescuing by a white man (although, I disagree about the 'pigeon English' complaint; I suspect the American/English characters would sound just as bad, if not worse, were they to attempt Hindi, Pumjabi, Catonese or Mandarin etc. and it stands to reason that Chatter Lal speaks good English, since he was educated in the UK).
However, in reference to my post regarding the 'heartwarming' reunion of Harrison Ford and Ke Huy Quan, it surely stands to reason that no-one would care/find it 'heartwarming', unless people actualy cared about this film.
By all means criticise the film's problematic issues, but it's frankly absurd to pretend that there isn't a huge amount of affection for the film, and its brilliant set-pieces/main characters.
Topics and discussions likes these serve as good reminders to just go outside for a while.
While I'm bummed that the set appears to have been cancelled, the real disappointment to me is the fact that we're not getting a new Short Round minifigure, as he has always been one of my favorite characters from the franchise.
Hopefully if LEGO makes more Indy sets they'll find a way to include him!
Hey Everyone!
Honestly, I am surprised by many of the comments that I just read above. Chill out! All of these CRT buzzwords like cultural appropriation, colonization, values, etc, etc… Let’s avoid being woke snowflakes. Not likely anyone will melt if this set is re-released.
Reminder, these are toys, made for kids, mostly bought and built by adults, based on mostly adult film properties, marketed to children. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this Temple of Doom set, nor the Indy theme, itself. This is a fictional work, based on a beloved IP. To say that Indy sets are somehow insensitive or inappropriate, is both hypocritical and pure hyperbole. If you don’t like it, vote with your wallet, don’t buy it!
Personally, my family (mom, uncle, grandparents) and I went to see Temple of Doom, at the theater when I was 13-14ish years old. I loved the film then and I recently watched it about a month ago, enjoying it even more at age 52. This film has amazing set pieces / scenes that should be depicted in LEGO form. But like yours, which I respect, this is just my opinion.
It is likely the set is just being held to summer or fall, perhaps it needs some adjustments to the build. I am hopeful, it will be for sale, sometime this year.
Cheers!
Ron
@bricks4everyone said:
"Perhaps Lego can pay a little more attention to prevent issues like this where lots of resources have been wasted in a product that will never reach the shelves and by doing so hopefully reduce the need to increase prices to, among other things, cover for those losses."
What resources were wasted here, exactly? Everyone seems to be making a big fuss of “how far along in production” this set got. How far did it get? Some photos at a toy fair? A clearly early-days sketch build? It never got announced. It never got packaged, to our knowledge.
Why put so much effort into complaining about a set that hasn’t existed yet? There are 90,000 different set numbers out there, they can afford to assign a few that don’t make it to production.
This kind of acidic discourse shouldn’t be enabled. A week ago, people were foaming at the mouth that the $40 set got hiked up to $50 and then up to $80. Is it $80 today? No. No it is not. Days and days of slinging every insult they could, based on the shadow of a whisper. The entire “leaks” discussion should be pushed as far away from the community as it can be, as it clearly only appeals to the most negative instincts.
Look at what we have here! The announcement says that the set isn’t coming out right now. After some Olympic-level jumping to conclusions, people have decided that the set was canceled (it wasn’t) for racism (not even close to confirmed or reasonable). Why? Is it not enough to just wait a couple months and see if it comes out with the next wave? MUST we make mountains out of every single mole hill we can possibly find a blurry screenshot of?
Let me help you all out with your reading comprehension: All that this statement says is that set 77014 has been omitted from the launch for April 2023, there's nothing here that indicates the set is cancelled. It's pretty simple and straight forward if you bother to read and understand what has been stated.
Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think it's just been delayed. And I think the statement doesn't say that because Lego's PR team demonstrably has no clue how to get ahead of controversies.
That being said, I'll definitely be using "consolidated the launch" in future.
To be honest, quite recent Ninjago set 71722 could easily be rebuilt into this temple of doom scene.
@Ridgeheart said:
“Wisdom has been trying to catch you for over five decades, but I surely do admire that even at your advanced age, you are still too fast.”
Sling those arrows, toss those spears, try to rip my beating heart-out, Ridgeheart… Ouch!
I have lived in Singapore for two of those five decades, often working in India. Wisdom may not have caught up with me, but I am likely far more grounded, in cultural reality, than your amusing metaphors try to be.
Looking at the image, suspect that the issues the press release hints at might just be structural ones; the set looks super flimsy in a number of places, maybe fixing them takes too much time in comparison with getting the other three out
Hoping it gets released at a later date.
Even more so hoping for a set with a Toht minifigure!!!!!!!
If the depiction of Kali is what cancelled this set, why not change the model by removing Kali? The Kali statue isn’t necessarily required given the set has multiple “scenes” of the tunnels all combined in one layout.
Releasing a set that meets their cultural standards, however loose they may be at any given time, would be better than canceling and facing customer scorn.
Hey look at this way we get to keep our money for the next LEGO set to come around.
I think you are all missing the forest for the trees. The cancellation likely has less to do with perceived racism or cultural insensitivity as it does avoiding a major Capital Expense on a movie who's schedule keeps changing and its outlook looks dimmer. Remember all the unsold Hobbit first wave sets because the scenes depicted never appeared in the movie? Or how horribly the Black Widow and Shang-Chi sets did because the movie got pushed back? This might be hedging against that.
I also don't rule out Lucasfilms Veep of DEI declaring it "Problematic".
When LEGO has previously canceled sets before wide release, they have clearly come out and said so, even if/when their communicated reasons for doing so were suspect. Their language this time is very wishy washy, likely purposefully so. Based on their vague response, it would seem to me that they haven't made a decision yet as to how they plan to proceed. Most organizations realize that pulling the band aid off in one fell swoop is the quickest way to get the pain over and done with. People will jump up and down and then move on. Belaboring this with ambiguity leaves us questioning but does keep more options available. Permitting fan site to leverage the leaked photo for conjecture/discussion is not as clear to me unless they're crowd sourcing next steps.
If I think about it ... I'm surprised LEGO Indiana Jones was ever even an option, even back in the early 2010s!
Military vehicles? Check. Religious iconography? Check. Violence and gore? Check. Ripping someone's heart from their chest? Absolutely check. Really none of this material is suitable for a kid's theme at all, and the whole "fantasy" argument is nonsense since Indiana Jones takes place is a predominantly realistic pre-WWII era. It's a far cry from the fantasy nature and settings of Star Wars, where the vast majority of it takes place in a universe screaming of a fantasy nature.
All I can say is that LEGO opened up their own Ark when they released this theme to begin with, and bringing it back just means they shoved the lid off the whole thing yet again. Good luck PR team, I honestly dunno what you can do at this point?
@moondrake said:
"They probably aim at an expansion of the market in India. Thus, when in doubt, we avoid controversies and failed sales agreements.
I'm cynical, but if you have moral principles, you shouldn't even present Star Wars...the most loved character has "only" massacred children....now I'm going to be lynched :)
"
The thing about that is that Anakin/Vader's instances of doing so are never portrayed as though they were positive actions. They are the actions taken by a character falling into darkness. If there is any heroism in Anakin, it’s that after slaughtering the Tuskens he tries to be a hero for the Republic. It’s comparable to the myth of Heracles/Hercules. Of course, it also shows the deepening flaws in his character, and Padme’s, that he keeps the whole thing quiet.
@FizzleMeSexy I feel like superhero characters have long had a variety of depictions in media, which often involves toning them down for younger audiences. Little did I realize when I was enjoying 90s animated series based on comic books that those characters weren’t always going to be doing the sort of things acceptable for Saturday morning cartoons. Funnily enough, there’s a concept called “the Church of Superman” regarding the varied-and often divisive-depictions of the Man of Steel.
My theory: they’ve decided to hold back on the Temple of Doom set because the 40th anniversary of the movie is next year, and they’re delaying the launch until 2024, like the Jurassic Park sets for the 30th anniversary this year.
I apologise for my own rudeness and snarkiness parsom (I just get irritable when it comes to passive-aggressive nastiness posturing as virtue), but, just to be clear, I wasn't previously referring to your good self (and, for what it's worth, I have a lot of respect for Poland, not least since my in-laws hail from the country, and, far from 'welcome the Third Reich', it was Germany's *invasion* and destruction of your country, that prompted WWII). And just to be clear, I am no fan of my own adopted country's history of imperialism.
@Tc99m said:
"Why openly speculate and encourage further speculation in the comment section, when we know literally nothing and have no means to confirm all this theorizing?
There could be any number of reasons (besides possible cultural sensitivity) for cancelling the set: logistical issues, production issues, higher production costs than projected, licensing costs/issues, actors not giving/revoking permission to use their likeness, negative sales projections, lack of interest from focus groups, a construction flaw in the design, etc. etc. It could be one or a combination of these reasons, which was simply found out after the set was already announced. LEGO employees are human too after all, and in any company mistakes are sometimes made and discovered too late. Yes, it’s annoying that LEGO doesn’t elaborate besides releasing a short statement, but that’s their right, we are not entitled to an explanation.
Of course you can’t prevent people from wondering what the reason for cancellation was, but speculation without any information (and highlighting cultural sensitivity specifically without *any* concrete facts to back that claim up - while a number of other reasons are just as likely), only encourages polarization in the fan community and helps propagating baseless myths that will roam around the Internet for years to come."
I agree, the existence of this "article" is just an awful idea.
@darkstonegrey said:
"Let me help you all out with your reading comprehension: All that this statement says is that set 77014 has been omitted from the launch for April 2023, there's nothing here that indicates the set is cancelled. It's pretty simple and straight forward if you bother to read and understand what has been stated."
Indeed. I read the statement much less as a cancellation and more a resource allocation. The way I read it was that producing all 4 sets on time wasn't going to be feasible due to resource constraint (maybe in the design optimization process) and so Lego & Lucasfilm decided to focus on the 3 most mature designs.
I see nothing specific that says 77014 isn't going to be released.
@elangab said:
"Even before it was cancelled, it was not a good set. It looks flimsy and the design is off and looks nothing like the film. It's not even a nice display model, and its price was probably $120. I understand people wished for TOD set, but personally I don't see a problem with its cancelation, regardless of the reasons."
exactly this^
It's been interesting to see the various readings of cultral aspects of the Temple of Doom movie. I read the movie ver differntly. Without going into lots of detail, I see it as casting the known (and somewhat legendary) Thugee cult in a bad light, positive portrayal of the Maharajah's progressive politics and Indiana Jone's respect for local culture.
@fredted said:
"Look at the wording:
As an outcome of this, we consolidated the launch to focus on three products (77012, 77013, 77015) that feature some of the most iconic scenes from the Indiana Jones franchise.
I think the inclusion of "optimise" and "April 2023" means they couldn't get the set finished in time for the movie's release, and it will come out in a new wave in a few months."
I agree, it sounds more like "delayed" wording than "cancelled" wording.
Someone also said that if it IS delayed, why didn't they just say "delayed",
but by that reasoning, if it's cancelled, why didn't they just say "cancelled" like they did with the Osprey
I feel like we didn't need this article. Ultimately one learns nothing from it other than 77014 was maybe cancelled maybe because of factors we don't know about. It's kind of shameful of Brickset to have pushed it out ASAP after the reveal for the sets which makes it seems like (at worst) an attempt to capitalize on the outrage and fan the flames. Originally the article was even giving blatant misinformation so it was changed to be "(presumably) canceled."
77014 still listed in product descriptions at LEGO.com is quite strange.
"More adventures – Look out for the Escape from the Lost Tomb(77013), The Temple of Doom ( 77014 ) and Temple of the Golden Idol (77015) LEGO® Indiana Jones™ sets"
@WemWem said:
"Generalized misunderstanding and inaccurate depictions of the goddess Kali as some sort of demonic figure."
As a religous Jew, I find the inaccuracies regarding the Ark more humorous than anything. (It has evil spirits trapped within that cause you to melt and explode... yeah okay sure, if you say so. Meanwhile they somehow got the priestly garments pretty much 100% right, lol.) If anything, I'm pleased to see my religion represented respectfully in a popular movie, not upset or annoyed.
@Brick_Belt said:
"Props to Lego for allowing discussion of the leaked images. That's pretty cool. "
If it officially doesn’t exist Lego can’t request removal, if this thread disappears then it’s safe to say a release is forthcoming…
@moondrake said:
[I'm cynical, but if you have moral principles, you shouldn't even present Star Wars...the most loved character has "only" massacred children....now I'm going to be lynched :)
]]
You’re spot on.
I’ve said this before myself.
If those with the high moral principles stick to their convictions, they’d never purchase an Anakin toy or a Vader, or a toy company aimed at children’s toys would never even make them (LEGO).
Curious how it got that far into the production cycle before someone found a reason or two to not release it further.
In fairness if they screened every product in the earlier stages then I suspect that a lot more sets would be filtered out as consequence of corporate lawayers and an over-abundance of caution. They probably do this now and sometimes they still slip through.
So for now its quite balanced.
If it was at the Nürnberg Toy Fair, maybe they used the displayed set to monitor the opinion of the visitors, and decide whether or not to produce it?
Still it would be better for the company image to be clear and honest about reasons to cancel.
This temple/scenery's main use was to sacrifice humans, slowly lowering a human trapped in a cage into fire. How on earth could anyone at Lego think that recreating this would be a good idea? This is the real mystery.
@SearchlightRG said:
" @FizzleMeSexy I feel like superhero characters have long had a variety of depictions in media, which often involves toning them down for younger audiences. Little did I realize when I was enjoying 90s animated series based on comic books that those characters weren’t always going to be doing the sort of things acceptable for Saturday morning cartoons. Funnily enough, there’s a concept called “the Church of Superman” regarding the varied-and often divisive-depictions of the Man of Steel."
Tarantula is probably best known for r*ping Dick Grayson, that’s the problematic thing they’re referring to. I don’t want to get off-topic but I do want to make it clear this was about something more than, say, a random one-off Joker comic where he does something R-rated.
The discussion is at risk of going awry. We may re-open commenting in the morning (GMT) when we can moderate it.