The Clone Trooper Conundrum
Posted by CapnRex101,
Clone Trooper minifigures are extremely popular and therefore draw particular scrutiny when new designs are produced. The revised Phase II Clone Trooper helmet has certainly proven divisive.
The updated helmet incorporates holes on either side, accommodating the accessories developed for Phase I helmets in 2008. While this improves the range of possible characters, some of whom need helmet accessories, the helmet's shape has also been affected.
This article discusses the problems with the helmet and how LEGO could potentially improve Clone Trooper minifigures in the future.
Firstly, we should establish the differences between the older helmet and the new. The earlier piece was introduced in 2013 and certainly simplified the onscreen helmet, although recreated its general shape well. The proportions of the helmet appear accurate and I think the decoration looks good, although more modern dual-moulded helmets are often even better.
In fact, the decision not to design a dual-moulded helmet is notable, when the classic Imperial Stormtrooper and Scout Trooper have recently received that treatment. Dual-moulding is not a necessity by any means, but would be as effective on a Clone Trooper as it is on those Imperial minifigures, in my opinion.
Above: Helmet from 75280 501st Legion Clone Troopers, 2020.
Below: Helmet from 75345 501st Clone Troopers Battle Pack, 2023.
The updated helmet, which debuted in 75337 AT-TE Walker last year, instead remains broadly similar to its precursor. However, the addition of holes on each side, where accessories can be attached, gives this helmet a squarer appearance. The extra bumps above the auditory sensors look awkward and are not present on the helmets as shown onscreen.
Unfortunately, this issue stems from the decision to re-use the helmet accessories designed for Phase I helmets in 2008. The older accessories determine the position of the holes, which has resulted in the inaccurate helmet shape. Also, while the visor and macrobinoculars look alright when attached, the rangefinder is noticeably too high.
Source - DenuoNovo.com
It seems even some LEGO employees are conscious of this problem because official images of 75345 501st Clone Troopers Battle Pack display the Clone Trooper Officer with his rangefinder in the correct place, below the actual connection point on the helmet. I certainly do not believe this was intended to deceive anyone, but the mistake in official images shows an awareness of where the accessories should be attached.
Additionally, it should be mentioned that the decoration on the helmet has been adjusted. Gaps between the ridge across the top and printing on each side are now wider, again shifting away from the source material. I assume this was necessary to allow for slightly misaligned printing, but this alteration seems like another for the worse.
The solution seems quite simple. Producing a new accessory pack alongside the 2022 helmet would have avoided the need for compromise and seemingly been equally cost-effective. After all, a new macrobinoculars element arrived soon after the helmet, so creating a new accessory pack and including the macrobinoculars would presumably have cost about the same.
Of course, the new accessories would no longer fit the standard Phase I Clone Trooper helmet, although I think that piece is probably also due for an update. The element is now fifteen years old and seems rather dated, so I would not be surprised to see an updated version in the near future. Had a new accessory pack been introduced, a theoretical modern Phase I helmet could be designed accordingly.
However, the nature of LEGO parts is such that they need to remain consistent, so a new pack of accessories incompatible with older helmets may be problematic. Even so, allowing a couple of little accessories produced in 2008 to determine the design of a modern piece seems strange to me, especially given the severity of the compromises and the associated negative response.
I must say, I do not feel as strongly about the issues with the updated Phase II helmet as some fans, although the new design is noticeably worse than its precursor, which is frustrating. I think the recent introduction of dual-moulded helmets for other minifigures has intensified the reaction and understandably so, to some degree.
Do you feel strongly about the new helmet and how would you improve the design, if so? Let us know in the comments.
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98 comments on this article
Couldn’t they just move the hole down a little bit?
Gets popcorn...
I think in hindsight, with the "reintroduction" of Clones in 2020, the P1 and P2 helmets should have been updated then. The post 2020 Clones look notably different to 2013/14 Clones, so TLG should have gone all in and created new helmets and accessories to match.
Webster’s new example under the definition of “first-world problems”. ;)
I hate anyone who has a temper tantrum over a kid's toy not satisfying their exact specifications (sound familiar?) But inconsistencies like that would annoy me a bit.
I like the helmet holes, because they’re the same size as minidoll hair holes. Now I can give my clone troopers a cute bow or flower.
Tbh I didn't even know they changed the helmets
Also I thought the first image was some horrendous printing error
@PixelTheDragon said:
"Couldn’t they just move the hole down a little bit?"
I see where you're coming from but if you look at the P2 Clone helmets attachments like the visors, they attach slightly above those circular bits on the sides
The reason not to dual mould the helmet should be obvious to you of all people, @CapnRex101: there's a wide variety of different clone helmets that can be approximated by this shape. You can't use the helmet for Rex if you've moulded the eyepiece for a standard Phase II into it.
Quite honestly this whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
@beige2 said:
"Tbh I didn't even know they changed the helmets
Also I thought the first image was some horrendous printing error"
I didn't even realise it wasn't until you pointed it out!
@Zink said:
"It is insane to me, that they can't just roll out a thought-out well-developed new design language for all clone figs (phase I and II) and stormtroopers and stick to it for at least a decade. I do not care about SW at all, but if I were army building, the constant changes in body print and helmet design would annoy me to no end."
Compare episode 4, 5 and 6. inconsistent as hell, too.
Kama is the main problem
I hadn't even realised the helmets had changed....
I don't have such a problem as some fans do, but with that said I also don't like the new helmets and don't do as much army building with them. The new helmets seem to look objectively worse than the old helmets, which is unfortunate. I think that for the fans that are super upset, the issue is not just the holes, but that for the high price that Lego charges for its "premium product," we just expect the best possible product that TLG can produce. It just doesn't seem like this is what they are doing.
Sure it's a first world problem, but the fact that Lego is so expensive, thus being accessible to certain socioeconomic groups of people and less to others, all the while even cheaper sets are increasing in price, is a problem in and of itself.
What amazes me is that they’ll clearly put tons of effort into designing some awesome figs for CMF, Dreamz, Ninjago, and other themes but they just seem lazy with the SW figs. They do the minimum possible to try and get people to buy sets just for the figs while providing little value and more of the same when it comes to clone troopers.
@samsz3 said:
"Gets popcorn...
I think in hindsight, with the "reintroduction" of Clones in 2020, the P1 and P2 helmets should have been updated then. The post 2020 Clones look notably different to 2013/14 Clones, so TLG should have gone all in and created new helmets and accessories to match. "
I think that probably would have been the best thing to do. I still find it odd that they didn't include helmet holes in the first 2013 clones especially since Rex was among that group.
The idea for dual molding is nice, but as somebody already pointed out, it likely wouldn't work for Rex, Neyo, Wolffe etc. Let alone that dual molded imperial helmets have had a varied reception(deservedly so). While the scout trooper helmet looks fantastic, the regular stormtrooper was a serious downgrade in my eyes.
Changing the accessory pack mold could be good, specifically for the visor, but that would mess with the backwards compatibility. I love having 5 different colors of attachments for my clones. I actually don't see the need to update P1 helmets either. They are already perfect to me.
Suffice to say, I don't envy TLG's position. No matter what they do, somebody will be upset with the decision.
@PixelTheDragon said:
"Couldn’t they just move the hole down a little bit?"
The issue is LEGO wanted to reuse the sun visor, that they already made. If they had moved the holes down to a more natural spot. You would have ended up with something like this. https://imgur.com/a/K5uFJ5j
And that's because that piece was made for a Phase 1 helmet.
@MisterBrickster said:
"The reason not to dual mould the helmet should be obvious to you of all people, @CapnRex101 : there's a wide variety of different clone helmets that can be approximated by this shape. You can't use the helmet for Rex if you've moulded the eyepiece for a standard Phase II into it.
Quite honestly this whole thing is a storm in a teacup."
That is true and I am perfectly fine with the helmets not being dual-moulded. However, the visor could easily be printed on a dual-moulded helmet, so the variation between troopers would not be an issue either way. After all, there are many features that remain consistent between all Phase II helmets.
I would dare to suggest that nearly all 'controversial' subjects relating to LEGO are a storm in a teacup, but sometimes those storms are fun to address, just as a discussion topic.
What’s the difference between those helmets? I genuinely can’t tell
star wars fans are some of the pickiest in the entire world. quite frankly i would prefer that star wars was just discontinued as a theme.
@Zink said:
"It is insane to me, that they can't just roll out a thought-out well-developed new design language for all clone figs (phase I and II) and stormtroopers and stick to it for at least a decade. I do not care about SW at all, but if I were army building, the constant changes in body print and helmet design would annoy me to no end."
It certainly does me. I certainly welcome variety in cases where there’s in-universe variation, but the way we see constant supposed “updates” of things that didn’t need updating is just frustrating. I really would like to be able to army-build and have all my uniformed troops actually appear uniform, and seemingly the only way to do it these days is to buy umpteen copies of a single set all at once or Bricklink multiples of a single figure, when back in the early days there was much greater consistency.
I actually don’t always mind the first update; it feels like it sometimes just takes a while of producing the first version(s) of something to realize what needs exist, what improvements can / should be made, etc. But I’d love for them to find a good version of each thing and then settle on it, and not revise it just for the sake of revising it every second or third wave of sets in which it appears.
@woosterlegos said:
"Webster’s new example under the definition of “first-world problems”. ;)"
Okay, fair. In the grand scheme of things it’s pretty unimportant, and it’s worth remembering the primary audience for these products isn’t adult fans who collect massive numbers of toys, but rather kids, many of whom will only be into this stuff for two or three years before “growing out of it”.
But for those of us adult nutcases who love SW and LEGO and have been collecting to the best of our ability for the last couple decades, but who are limited in our means, it’s kind of frustrating to feel like we have to essentially start over from square one with our army building every so often because they changed certain uniformed characters *again*, and this particular variety of trooper or pilot or officer or whatever that we’ve painstakingly accrued a small number of over the past few years has now been replaced by a redesign in the latest sets. It’s not the end of the world, obviously, but it does diminish enthusiasm for the new sets sometimes.
Most of the helmets on my newer clones are from Clone Army Customs. Mostly for consistency with unique helmets. For example, I don't have a Rex, so I made a Rex. But to do this, I used a P1 helmet from Clone Army Customs. These newer 501st minifigs have P2 helmets. So... needed more P1s for all Rex's direct reports. I really never got the issue with the newer P2 helmets before, but now I see it and... it doesn't bother me. Then again, I don't bother adorning my minifigs with cloth or plastic pauldrons and kamas (unless they'll just be for display).
@Sandinista said:
"What’s the difference between those helmets? I genuinely can’t tell "
One is squatter (“more square”) as noted in the review and has bumps above the ear holes.
I think this level of discourse and granular obsession is the real conundrum and insanity. It's a Lego toy; it is, and has always been, an abstraction of something else. If you want something that is so painfully accurate to the source material in ways 99% of regular fans will never notice, there are Hasbro Black Series figures, or even higher-end things like Hot Toys and etc.
This comment is not intended as a defense of Lego for perceived """poor design choices""" either; that they have catered to this sect of fan in such a way for so long is part of the problem. Everyone involved just needs to get over themselves, or are we soon going to say that real clone troopers didn't have stubby square legs and claw hands or cylindrical heads, and those elements need to be changed as well in the name of accuracy (accuracy to what end? How does this affect your enjoyment in any meaningful way?).
They also lack 3 fingers in each hand and overall limb proportions are just awful. How dare they make children's toys rather than 1:1 movie accurate replicas.
@Zink said:
"... if I were army building, the constant changes in body print and helmet design would annoy me to no end."
I would like to see a picture of a large scale Clone army with old and new designs mixed together to see how much of an issue it is. Since some people don't notice the difference in helmets with just those features shown at both resolution, I would be very surprised if it's particularly noticeable in a battle scene or other trooper display.
*cough*climbs to very high horse*cough*
Who cares about clones anyway? It's the garbage of star wars, another hole or no hole wouldn't matter anyway.
*carefully steps down from very high horse*
I ain't got a problem with it. I'm more annoyed about them departing from the 2014-style print
The article is titled "The Clone Trouper Conundrum" yet it doesn't even mention the dilemma of switching all my new clones to black hips or switching all my old clones to white hips. That is the conundrum that keeps me up at night! :-)
First and foremost, I'm just happy to be getting more clones! That being said, in this day and age, it is baffling to me why they cant produce an accurate helmet. Why not have a helmet with the hole in the right place for clones like Rex and Cody who use the range finger and macro binoculars etc, and for the regular clones, just use the original helmet they produced without the holes?
At the very least, put the helmet hole in the right place on all of the clone helmets and not so high up that it looks stupid when using existing accessories.
LEGO talk about having a consistent design with clone troopers but they deviated from that when they made the changes in the first place as most of us will now have the same clones with and without the added helmet holes (501st, 332nd).
Surely a re-designed helmet should be an improvement to the previous version? The fact that LEGO were also advertising the clones on the box art with the range finder in the proper position when in reality, it wouldn't look like that at all is also annoying and makes you wonder if they were deliberately trying to mislead the consumer.
The fabric kama is the main issue for me. Despite LEGO's claims, figures sit down fine with it on, kids aren't stupid - its easy enough to attach and if they really have difficulty, if its printed on the legs as well, surely that should suffice for them? LEGO give all these reasons why SW minifigures no longer have proper kamas but then they provide fabric waist capes in brand new sets for Scarlet Witch and also in the new Dreamzzz sets which are clearly aimed at kids. Thus, they obviously know that kids will be able attach a waist cape with no issues. So there are multiple contradictions in what they're saying. To not supply Captain Rex with a fabric kama in a whopping £560 set aimed at adults is so confusing to me, yet they can put one in brand new 9+ and 10+ sets for kids. Not to mention the giant robe they've given to a minifigure in the new Dune set. Now we know where all the fabric has gone!
I guess half the annoyance of this is the fact that LEGO give reasons/excuses for their blatant lack of care with SW minifigure designs, but then later contradict themselves soon after whilst still clinging to the same reasons why clone troopers especially remain inferior and inaccurate. The Ahsoka minifigures have been designed so fantastically well (bar Jacen's not-green hair!). I just wish the design team would put the same level of care and attention into designing other SW minifigures to ensure they are the most accurate and best they can be. Especially as sets are so expensive now and LEGO aren't exactly struggling for profits.
But that's just my opinion. I'm sure many aren't that bothered about the minor issues, and I'm honestly just happy to have more clone troopers :)
While not my forte, I can honestly say: That first trooper (the one in the 'tag' photo), looks like he got punch in face by a wookie...I mean look at him: his print on his one side of his helmet is offset to the other side...visor, stripes, and ventilator are all 'divided'...looks weird :|
@brick_r said:
"While not my forte, I can honestly say: That first trooper (the one in the 'tag' photo), looks like he got punch in face by a wookie...I mean look at him: his print on his one side of his helmet is offset to the other side...visor, stripes, and ventilator are all 'divided'...looks weird :| "
Probably because the left side is the earlier helmet, and the right side is the new helmet. So it is two different troopers.
See, way my clockwork brain works I prefer collecting the older Clone figs to army build with anyway, I like the conformity. The more they specialise clone troopers the more I avoid them, so all these new moulds were always going to go over my head anyway
They are STILL complaining about this...
SW fans, especially those of the Prequel Saga and Clone Wars era, are very annoying.
I looked at the first picture and thought it was a terribly moulded helmet with horrific printing.
I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old.
I quite dislike how, as soon as you enter StarWars Lego fandom, then it's all about details and authenticity to the original material. It's like some people forget that Lego figures themselves are just poor approximations of human beings. Once you put everything to that scale (and I mean both height and width here), everything would look chubby and can't match 1:1 the proportions of the original content.
If only one of the helmets shown in the before/after were given to you, wouldn't you still recognize it as being exactly a Clone Trooper's helmet? That's the point in the end, and of course there'll be priorities given to functionalities too. The clone troopers are great figures, and trying to find a controversy here is looking for a storm in a glass of water really.
@Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
You think TLG should stop making clone minifigs because you're tired of fans complaining? Then just stop reading reviews!
@Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
I find CAC is better if you get the torsos and legs for cheap and get just the CAC helmets. That's what I did for my Captain Rex.
Lego Star Wars fans are truly another breed.
Good soldiers follow orders...
@560heliport said:
" @Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
You think TLG should stop making clone minifigs because you're tired of fans complaining? Then just stop reading reviews!"
If that's your only take away from everything I wrote, then yes. Yes I do think lego should take a break from clones for a while. I read/watch reviews so I can be informed on newly released sets so I can make smarter financial decisions as I spend money on this hobby that gets more and more expensive.
All it does is fester a toxic community that constantly harasses the lego. This is not a healthy environment.
Lego taking a break from clones would give them more time to focus on designing more toys for kids than adding more fuel into a fire that makes fans angrier and angrier. A break could make lego reassess the design template and process for clones and it would give clone fans time to cool down and move on.
I think Lego should have two types of helmets that look like the 2020 version but one has holes where the other is filled in. There is no need to add another hole on top if you already have one that you could just empty to put in accessories. This would require redesigning a couple of those accessories but it would look so much better and it would last much longer since all you would need to do it reprint the helmets if you introduce a new trooper.
As much as I 100% believe this is as far from a big deal as you can reasonably get, I do prefer the new helmet to the old(er) one. The hole on the side is neither here nor there to me, but the visor lines up better with regular minifigure eyes than on the previous.
That's the issue I always had with things like the original Iron Man helmet. Everyone else loved it. But as far as I'm concerned, proportions are more important than total accuracy.
Phase 1 troopers or die.
I don’t see the big deal, but I do kinda understand the complaints. I have a decent amount of Clones & most are from the mid 2000’s. Then they released more Phase 1’s later with some black line above the visor, a slightly different torso print & leg printing. It doesn’t really bother me though, I just put them behind the older plainer ones so it’s harder to notice.
Right. I haven't watched the clone wars, I just want a clone trooper army. I thought everyone wanted a 501st battle pack because of *that* scene. Looking back that was kind of stupid. So that means I probably don't know the perspective of other fans. However, I don't imagine Lego's target audience (Most likely not you) have watched the clone wars and know all the complex lore. They just want some cool clone troopers. I think that the hyper detailed ones with exquisite accuracy should be relegated to adults only sets.
@person_that_uses_brickset said:
"Kama is the main problem "
I agree that helmet holes are not the largest issue for me. I enjoy the option for accessorizing. Yet, I would prefer a helmet that was less square and more accurate.
The main issue with Lego is print quality. Wonky helmet prints, wonky driod domes, light printing on dark, stickers that don't match the color of the surrounding bricks- these are the grossly obvious problems that detract from a model/minifig appearance.
Also, the kama printing is just the worst decision ever! Leave it off altogether if you can't do better than a small, thin line. Otherwise, you are just trolling your most ardent fans. Good job! Lego graphic designers.
Kama, kama, kama, chameleon
You come and go,
you come and go-o-o!
@SonOfDathomir said:
"star wars fans are some of the pickiest in the entire world. quite frankly i would prefer that star wars was just discontinued as a theme."
Username checks out.
@Brickerika said:
""...When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions..."
Yikes, you're confusing our good Captain with those pimple-poppers?! For shame.
That's the same helmet. Like another commenter, I thought that was a print misalignment - That'd be unacceptable for a premium product (like LEGO is desperately trying to maintain the illusion of providing these days..) but I'm sorry, that's similarity to the point I don't see why they bothered making a new mold. I almost think it would be better to avoid bending the knee to Lego Star Wars fans.. They're a whole new breed of entitled whiny fan, the only fanbase I've seen coming even close is Transformers
You can't keep up with the "children's toy" shtick when the box has an 18+ on it and is part of Lego's For Adults range.
At times you have to question Lego, with the time and money spent designing these redesigns as well as new product moulds. All that resource would be better spent elsewhere.
I personally can't stand having the fleshy heads underneath due to troopers lacking the black neck, but Lego are particularly awful at printing on black.
@CapnRex101 the phase 2 helmet was introduced in 2013, not 2014. 75002 is a good example of what i mean
(1/2)
My biggest issue with the holes being where they are on the Phase II troops is that it was only made with the visor in mind, and not for both the visor and rangefinder. Paraphrasing, "We put the holes there because the visor would be blocking the eyes." Um, have you looked at the Phase I troops that are given a visor? Their eyes always get covered up, and it's been annoying from the start, but with a slight adjustment, they're only half covered.
The solution is not to make new parts, I think it's absolutely reasonable for things to not be 100% accurate because it's a minifigure, they're already out of proportion even to just the human form which they emulate, anything you apply to them is going to be distorted. Personally, I prefer Darth Vader's helmet design from 1999, it's the better looking helmet. While I like that you can reenact the end of Return of the Jedi and leave the accompanying bits sticking out under the chin, the helmet has now been forced into always looking slightly upward. The eyes of the helmet also no longer match the eyes of an actual minifigure. Vader's redesign from 2015 is ridiculous looking in my opinion. That's just one example where making things more accurate doesn't always help, but there are others, and I don't want to get too off track, but the point is, don't redesign just because you can, redesign it so that it looks better, but also not look stupid.
Now back to clones. I think backwards compatibility makes the most sense. While Phase I troops are not the most common at the moment, it wasn't too long ago they were featured in set 40558 , and it was constantly sold out or on backorder. You can add the new macrobinocular attachment from 75345 to Phase I troops, and I think that's awesome because there were times where you did see Clones with them, it wasn't just after the implementation of Phase II armor. While not totally accurate, you take a Yellow Phase I Commander or you swap the arms and legs for yellow on a plain Phase I, kit him out with a black kama and pauldron and that macrobinocular attachment, and you have a custom Phase I Commander Bly. Not accurate down to the minute details, but it's better than sharpie or paint, and it's a lot cheaper than paying $30 or $40 for just one single minifig from some third party, you get the rest of the set that figure you just customized came with, not to mention the others you borrowed the extra parts from. When 9488 was released you had all these extra visors you didn't use, and I made sure to give a dark red visor to Phase I Fox, and he looks even better now. And believe it or not, a dark red visor looks better than the orange on Captain Vaughn, and it's actually more accurate despite not really being a problem being orange either. The Phase II Cody using the same visor as before made it possible to give Phase I Cody the right color visor, and he looks spectacular. The blue visors and rangefinders, I haven't found a great use for them, I find gray looks best on Rex, but blue wasn't terrible either. New fans have fun accessories for their clones of any Phase, and older fans can improve their older ones with simple color swaps, it's wonderful. Making new molds for Phase I and Phase II helmets is not the answer, nor making an entirely new accessory pack either (although I do think having the pauldron, kama, and blasters is superior to an overwhelming number of visors and rangefinders, but that's what BrickLink is for if you run out and find you need more).
(2/2)
Phase II helmets should have always had holes to begin with since Rex was one of the first clones to debut this new helmet design. When Clones were first introduced in 2002, there was no need for all these attachments and gear, you didn't see them in Attack of the Clones. It wasn't even really necessary for Revenge of the Sith either until George saw what Genndy did with Arc Troopers in the Clone Wars microseries shortly after Attack of the Clones, and then you have characters like Cody, Bly, and the like with extra accessories and these colors denoting what company/legion/faction whatever you want to call it; all that stuff was added in because it looked cool. Most clones were just going to be plain white in Revenge of the Sith. The colors and gear were only then exacerbated with the 2008 Clone Wars series, which then launched the new era of Clone helmets in LEGO, and they all had holes so you could make your own custom leaders or give them tactical gear like floodlights (which were only ever really used maybe twice in that show's entire run). Well then when it was time for Phase II troops, naturally, everyone just assumed we'd be getting holes. They updated Boba Fett in 2010 and gave him helmet holes (and a whole clone accessory pack), why wouldn't they do the same for Phase II troops? Alas, it didn't happen.
9 years go by, we finally get holes for Phase II troops, and to be honest, the wrong decision was made. Now in the grand scheme of things, this does not really change much. Truthfully, most Clones don't have all this extra crap on them aside from what can just be printed on, but the possibility of adding gear was denied, a certain aspect of play was prohibited because the helmet changed. You want Phase II Cody, Bly, Fox, Rex, Wolffe, etc., or your own clone to command your troops? Well they're going to have to be "naked," if you even get them at all.
Now I really don't mind the placement of the Phase II clone holes because most clones don't need all these stuff, and it is actually kind of nice having the eyes be visible with the visor, but at the same time, that rangefinder looks really weird being so high up. Yes, the part was not designed for this helmet, but in actuality, it really wasn't designed for that hole placement. Phase I helmets when given a visor have their eyes half blocked out, but that's more because for whatever reason, they were designed in such a way where they actually kind of droop down, you just need to raise it slightly, which I find to be acceptable because these are minifigures, not everything needs to be perfect, they just don't need to look stupid (cough Vader's Helmet cough), and the Phase I troops I've given visors to don't look stupid. Phase II with a rangefinder though, which where its forced to be placed, it looks kind of stupid.
The best move I think LEGO could have done, is go for a compromise. The holes applied to the Phase II clones are almost the same distance out as the little bumps. Just split the difference. Move the bumps up halfway to the holes, move the holes halfway down to the bumps, merge the two together. No, Phase II won't be absolutely accurate, but the rangefinder would be more aligned, the visors would be consistent with those placed on Phase I helmets, and fans could at least understand why the bumps are placed where they are, not to mention that they've been replaced with a hole. There's supposed to be details like those bumps on the Phase I helmets, but they just aren't there because there's a hole for adding accessories and enhancing play experiences because it's still a toy at the end of the day. Those bumps are where they are on Phase II helmets to be more in line with Stormtroopers, but the LEGO version can afford to go a bit off model if you ask me if it enhances play. And if you don't believe me that this is the best solution, grab a Phase I and Phase II clone and see where the holes are. Phase I is actually just a little lower than Phase II, in fact it's right at the midpoint between the hole and bump; it's the perfect solution!
My thoughts are too big for Brickset to contain!
TL;DR: The solution is not to make a ton of extra molds for things. LEGO should have always given Phase II clones holes ever since 2013, and the best solution would be to put them where they are on Phase I helmets, which just so happens to be the midpoint between the bump and the hole on the current Phase II helmet. Forget getting everything 100% accurate, just don't make them look stupid.
I like to add lego friends bows to the helmet holes
Dual molded helmets are effective in completely ruining helmets. Since Kylo Rens helmet Lego randomly oversizes headgear elements and it just makes no sense. There are very clear and undisputable guides to the graphic design of minifigure prints, how can this not exist for heads, hair and headgear too? Just now I got the new ROTJ Luke hair in-hand and the hair strands are rectangular shapes stacked on top of each other while the figures I have sitting on my desk to fiddle with right now from LOTR and Wonder Woman have either realistic hair strands all throughout or very smoothed out areas. I know the style changes from piece to piece but coupled with the matte color and texture the new Luke hair and several other new pieces start to feel like they come from customizers or bootleggers and this is definitely because parts designers can just kind of do whatever they want even when it breaks consistency.
I was very happy that Lego brought back the 2012 clone helmet piece and didn't oversize it. Back then I mentioned as often as possible to avoid dual molding online because of the size discrepancies and terrible sculpting of the new Stormtrooper that takes away essential features like turning the head and gave the helmet cartoony proportions. If that wouldn't have been a factor Lego should have used dual molding to make Codys helmet, identical to the 2012 piece of course, but incorporating a more accurately shaped visor as well as antennas. Then they may as well have introduced a version of the 2012 helmet with the holes at the expected location for rangefinders from 2020s 501st Battlepack onwards or now with Captain Rex and Bly.
It really isn't hard to come up with that and I wholeheartedly agree with the need to redesign the visor. Them and the rangefinders suffer from the current spruemark placements and low level of detail. Weirdly enough new rangefinders and visors exist in the Skywalker Saga game which might indicate that Lego shared new accessory designs as the Rex figure is very close to the design that ended up in the Venator set. The games rangefinder and other accessories break the style yet again in their current condition but could easily be modified to have more rounded edges.
Just go back to old, less detailed ones.
Why we havent got double molded heads yet?
the 2014 Phase II clones were perfect (well minus the cut off leg printing. which for some reason it is now possible to avoid)
I repeat my earlier thoughts on the subject:-
Star Wars - Fictional
LEGO - A toy
If you get upset by this stuff and it sparks this much incensed debate then you're really missing the things that matter in life.
@Block_n_Roll said:
"I repeat my earlier thoughts on the subject:-
Star Wars - Fictional
LEGO - A toy
If you get upset by this stuff and it sparks this much incensed debate then you're really missing the things that matter in life."
Yeah, dogs
Majority of customers probably wouldn't even notice things like this.
Sure, it's Star Wars, which has a fanbase, and with many years of Star Wars for kids, it's not just the 80s and 2000s movie generation anymore.
I mean this theme already gets 4+ sets .
LEGO will probably just move on to the next eventual clone set instead of "fixing" a battlepack that by now has been in distribution for over a year (yes it's a january 2023 set but production / shipping / storage starts months before) , especially because the clone pack is a small set, it make the distribution channels even bigger, so recalling / tracking who bought this would be a nightmare. (unless that QR code on each instruction manual is a unique one? )
However, it's always good to be critical of a LEGO product.
@beige2 said something similar as,
@HandPositions said:
"I like the helmet holes, because they’re the same size as minidoll hair holes. Now I can give my clone troopers a cute bow or flower."
C'mon, you guys are missing the real trick. Party Clones!!
https://brickset.com/parts/design-24131
EDIT: @ICAbricks, my friend you're incorrect. I just tried a whole host of accessories, they do fit- including the flames. So, Flame On!!
@StyleCounselor said:
" @beige2 said something similar as,
@HandPositions said:
"I like the helmet holes, because they’re the same size as minidoll hair holes. Now I can give my clone troopers a cute bow or flower."
C'mon, you guys are missing the real trick. Party Clones!!
https://brickset.com/parts/design-24131 "
Or knight clones, I mean even in the first days of LEGO Castle, a set like 677: Knight's Procession
has 4 of the exact same figure, and that trend wasn't limited to the figure packs either
Both 6085 : Black Monarch's Castle and 6080 : King's Castle have 2 sets of 4 duplicate figures :)
Joking of course, but Castle theme did and still do come with plumes, in fact the party hat piece even comes with 10305 : Lion Knights' Castle
@Anonym said:
"...the size discrepancies and terrible sculpting of the new Stormtrooper that takes away essential features like turning the head and gave the helmet cartoony proportions...
Weirdly enough new rangefinders and visors exist in the Skywalker Saga game which might indicate that Lego shared new accessory designs as the Rex figure is very close to the design that ended up in the Venator set. The games rangefinder and other accessories break the style yet again in their current condition but could easily be modified to have more rounded edges."
Funnily enough, in the Skywalker Saga, the new awful Stroop helmet was actually downscaled to make it look better. TT generally makes minifigure designs accurate to the actual products, but it's quite telling how hated that new helmet is when it was digitally altered, similar to the rangefinder on the box art.
I'm fine with the new Phase II helmets and even the pilot helmets in 75218, but I actively avoid sets with Stormtroopers now.
Are we still going on about this?
@ICAbricks said:
" @Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
You've got a good point bro. I don't want to camp with people who say "LEGO us just a kids toy," but I also don't quite side with those who say "LEGO is a premium product that must be 100% accurate all the time." I agree, LEGO fans are complaining a smidgen too much. Especially MandRProductions, who has to be the most pessimistic LEGO reviewer I watch. But I still want LEGO clones nonetheless, even if they don't meet everyone's expectations.
(And please, please don't remind me of Just2Good. I lost all respect for him - or her, or I don't even know anymore - after... THAT video.)"
My personal feelings is that Lego is a kids toy, it's just a toy that adults can very much still be enjoyed by adults for many reasons. It lets us have creative control on what we create, and it brings us back to more a simple time. It's amazing! But lego is a kids toy, it's target audience are the kids; now I won't defend lego on everything because they have made bad decisions in the past and I believe it might be a toy for kids, but kids still deserve good and quality products. Laziness and cutting corners shouldn't happen just because it's for kids. But since it's a product for kids but still can be loved by adults, it makes it a beautiful product to share and bond over with kids. It gives us that little bridge to still connect as we get older and sometimes struggle to relate with the youth.
However, I often fear due to alot of demands and the more wild fans that actually do go out and harass lego that we might be hijacking something for kids. I feel alot of us are pushing kids aside as we crowd around lego and constant raise controversy over matters like this. I remember a little whiles back when the investing community got all up in a tizzy because of the Boba Fett mech and it had a slightly improved Boba Fett minifig than the UCS version. Like, what? Is lego no longer allowed to make products with Boba Fett anymore?
(And good lord, I'm almost afraid to ask what this video even is or if you can even tell me about it here)
The 2020+ helmet and torso print style is a much bigger issue for me than the holes.
To add to the mix, redoing the accessories wouldn't affect just the clone helmets, but also the Mandalorian helmet.
I agree with the general sentiment that the complaining is just a nuisance at this point. Rarely if ever is it constructive, often is it in bad faith and ignorant of actual logic. I have my preferences for how I would like things done, but I am still able to listen to, understand, and respect the reasonings the LEGO Star Wars design team has given for their decisions.
@CapnRex101 said:
"However, the visor could easily be printed on a dual-moulded helmet, so the variation between troopers would not be an issue either way."
They did something similar for Minions. Dual-molded bodies were based on the standard overalls outfit, and they painted different collar shapes to get the Kung Fu, pajamas, and pilot outfits.
Could they just add a lower hole for the rangefinder without adjusting the holes for the visor? Doesn’t do anything about the shape, but at least it fixes one problem.
@Sandinista said:
"What’s the difference between those helmets? I genuinely can’t tell "
Well, the third one is a movie prop, so…
@_viator:
It could be a case where the SW design team, or design lead, has made these decisions, but other themes’ design teams/leads don’t agree with them. Not every policy is going to be company-wide.
It doesn't bother me. Minifigure proportions are all out anyway. If I want an accurate model to display, I'll buy a high end action figure or statuette.
Easy solution. Exchange the helmet for a Classic Space one in white.
Improves the appearance of any figure immediately.
;-)
And no, this change doesn't bother me one bit. It's LEGO after all, not some high end scale replica.
@ICAbricks said:
" @Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
You've got a good point bro. I don't want to camp with people who say "LEGO us just a kids toy," but I also don't quite side with those who say "LEGO is a premium product that must be 100% accurate all the time." I agree, LEGO fans are complaining a smidgen too much. Especially MandRProductions, who has to be the most pessimistic LEGO reviewer I watch. But I still want LEGO clones nonetheless, even if they don't meet everyone's expectations.
(And please, please don't remind me of Just2Good. I lost all respect for him - or her, or I don't even know anymore - after... THAT video.)"
I mean, she's "her" pretty clearly now, if you go on her twitter. Iunno where the ambiguity would come from. I've never really watched her, her content never vibed with me, but it's right there in her twitter bio these days.
I have always been of the opinion that the option to add accessories is a better way than what came before.
@Zink said:
"It is insane to me, that they can't just roll out a thought-out well-developed new design language for all clone figs (phase I and II) and stormtroopers and stick to it for at least a decade. I do not care about SW at all, but if I were army building, the constant changes in body print and helmet design would annoy me to no end."
It could have been really simple.
- OG Star Wars designs (to about 2009) are in line with the classic Lego design language that minimizes lines to the absolute minimum.
- Animated characters have animated stylization.
- Modern designs from 2010s onwards have realistic graphics without breaking certain rules like body proportions and print area unless the style break corresponds with the characters having unusual features in-universe, too.
Animated designs have always been stupid and should have been nipped in the bud after the first year of Clone Wars sets, after adults and children complained about the horrific visages to no end for 6 years straight and the game Lego Star Wars 3: The Clone Wars changed all print designs to fit previously released figures. While the faces have been changed back the bodies still force cartoon stylization when a set comes from a cartoon, even when the characters appear in multiple pieces of media. Hasbro did the sensible thing when confronted with a mixed media property and chose to do realistic interpretations of everything regardless of source to enable combining figures from cartoons and shows.
Modern print designs have become the norm in every other Lego theme and the cartoonish stylization of just the Star Wars troopers ruins consistency. How come Star Wars has its designs all over the place now yet you can easily mix Lord of The Rings figures from the 2023 and 2013 sets and barely tell which one is the newest design?
They ushered in the new trooper designs to harness the clone customization craze but dialing down on basic features which the figures had previously removed all the fun from collecting the official Lego clones. Had they chosen a more realistic print for the troopers I may have went with the changes to the helmets and sold my collection of the 2013 era prints to replace them all with the new style, same way that they had convinced me of changing all my Phase 1 clones to the 2008 animated ones because there was no way of accumulating the original helmet in decent quantity. They could have kept me tied to their production lines, buying sets worth hundreds each year from official vendors and official helmet pieces to rub plain for custom prints forever. But as it is now I have a myriad of white bodies, black hands, many custom helmets that they refuse to make nowadays, and can make everything I want any time I wish.
I like the holes - it gives options to people who both play and display. No holes is only designed for those who display and therefore should not be an option; it's far too limiting.
However, I do agree that having two holes is the odd part, (the one created to allow for antenna and visors and keeping the original "bump"). They need to choose one, one that works with the radius of visor (allowing it to move up and sit properly - functionality) and then work back.
Too many panties in too many bunches, but...
I do wonder what goes on in those Lego product meetings. Why make the one decision over the other? Multiple nicer and more specific helmet moulds surely can't be a problem? No kama's because they are too complicated for kids (I call b*llshit, stickers are waaaay more complicated and still show up everywhere)? I just don't get some decisions, but I don't lose any sleep over them either. And I don't army build (because I think it is raher dumb).
After looking back and forth between two photos of helmets bigger than the entire minifig is in real life, I eventually noticed the difference.
@Anonym said:
"Animated designs have always been stupid and should have been nipped in the bud after the first year of Clone Wars sets, after adults and children complained about the horrific visages to no end for 6 years straight…"
https://brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3079065
Hey, Indiana Jones’ Stunt Double just lingered his gaze on the Ark a teensy bit too long, is all!
@ICAbricks said:
" @Brickerika said:
"I loved clones so much, I was so excited to start to start my own 501st legion.
But I dunno, I've been losing interest in clones. And it's not because of Lego.
It's these fans. It's constant COMPLAIN COMPLAIN COMPLAIN there's almost never anything positive being said about clones by fans. Like the helmet holes. Good lord, the helmet holes. Another set with clones, another review that needs to mention the helmet holes.
BUT HOW MUCH CUSTOM CLONES THAT COST 40 DOLLARS FOR A SINGLE FIGURE MAKE MORE DETAILED FIGURES THAN LEGO?
I'm willing to criticize lego when it's needed, they did mess up the helmet printings a bit with the recent AT-TE, the should have been fixed.
But it's more complaining, more complaining.
When I see articles like this, I can't help but to feel it was written by Just2Good, LifeBricks or MandRroductions.
There are two clone battle packs currently in production, with another one coming 2024, it feels like people still can't find a reason to be happy.
I've gotten to the point that I just wish lego would stop with clones for the next few years because it's gotten old."
You've got a good point bro. I don't want to camp with people who say "LEGO us just a kids toy," but I also don't quite side with those who say "LEGO is a premium product that must be 100% accurate all the time." I agree, LEGO fans are complaining a smidgen too much. Especially MandRProductions, who has to be the most pessimistic LEGO reviewer I watch. But I still want LEGO clones nonetheless, even if they don't meet everyone's expectations.
(And please, please don't remind me of Just2Good. I lost all respect for him - or her, or I don't even know anymore - after... THAT video.)"
Why?
@ICAbricks said:
" @Jeddostotle & @beige2:
It's because a LEGO YouTuber everyone used to like watching castrated himself and called himself Sarah. I used to watch Just2Good, but now I've lost all respect for HIM."
Oh right. You're THAT type of person
Well, it’s a good thing the block button exists now…
The fact that such blatant transphobia is even present in people on this site sickens me.
@Monopoly said:
"Well, it’s a good thing the block button exists now…
The fact that such blatant transphobia is even present in people on this site sickens me."
Wish I was surprised, but even on Lego news sites people are like that, and knowing how bad things are in the UK...
Of all the reasons to not like or not respect just2good, that's the most petty and says more about ICA than her. Didn't even know she came out until this very comments section.
On the main subject of the article itself, this does seem like a really weird time for an editorial on this well-worn subject.
I'm honestly glad they didn't change the graphic design and sculpting of the troopers all that much with this mold revision; even with the questionable change the minifigs are essentially 90% stylistically consistent with the previous 2020s Phase 2 troops. I'm also of the mindset that's been shared by other people here that significant design revisions to figures are often more annoying than exciting, so the idea of making a wholly new Phase 2 helmet that would make fans' existing Phase 2 troopers obsolete is one I disagree with. That said, I should admit my bias that I strongly prefer Phase 1 helmets over Phase 2 helmets, so while I understand the frustrations with the new mold, it's not like they messed with my favorite, so I have less of a leg in this issue. If they botched a revision or full redo of the Phase 1 helmet it'd be more personally upsetting.
Honestly the dead-horse clone complaint with the most merit is with the abysmal front-print kamas. Even taking the justification for excluding fabric ones in good faith, they should at least be side-printed if not fully dual-molded. Kamas mostly just appear on "premium" clone characters anyway, so it's not like that would be an excessive cost for generic army fodder. I know some people really like the old '08 plastic ones and would take those returning, but frankly no, even at the time I didn't like them for hard-limiting leg range.
Weirdly enough, I think I actually prefer the helmet holes. They’re hardly that obtrusive and most importantly, allow you to make custom clones. Back in 2008 all you needed was a blank clone, some accessories and a couple of sharpies to make custom Phase 1 characters, and now we’ve finally got that same option for making custom Phase 2s. Sure, we don’t have a blank Phase 2 yet, but we will pretty soon if leaks are anything to go by…
@Alia_of_AGL said:
" @Monopoly said:
"Well, it’s a good thing the block button exists now…
The fact that such blatant transphobia is even present in people on this site sickens me."
Wish I was surprised, but even on Lego news sites people are like that, and knowing how bad things are in the UK...
Of all the reasons to not like or not respect just2good, that's the most petty and says more about ICA than her. Didn't even know she came out until this very comments section."
Seeing transphobia in a website dedicated to a kids toy reminds me that thanos was completely right. The people that are saying that stuff can self-slaughter themselves, for all I care.
@Monopoly said:
"Well, it’s a good thing the block button exists now…
The fact that such blatant transphobia is even present in people on this site sickens me."
Wait, how do you block someone?
@beige2 said:
"Wait, how do you block someone?"
Click on their profile then press “hide comments on news articles posted by this user”
@Monopoly said:
" @beige2 said:
"Wait, how do you block someone?"
Click on their profile then press “hide comments on news articles posted by this user”"
Ty
@GenericLegoFan said:
"I hate anyone who has a temper tantrum over a kid's toy not satisfying their exact specifications (sound familiar?) But inconsistencies like that would annoy me a bit."
$700 children's toy with silly looking rex
Without star wars lego would have died in the early 2000s, just turn a blind eye to it or your just as bad as the star wars fans
At what point does a toy with an 18+ age rating on the front, sold inside a theme "For Adults" does it no longer remain a "children's toy aimed at children"?
@MegaBlocks said:
"At what point does a toy with an 18+ age rating on the front, sold inside a theme "For Adults" does it no longer remain a "children's toy aimed at children"?"
Never, it's the perfect excuse to shut down any issue with LEGO deemed too minor by the individual using said excuse. Pairs extremely well with the "kids are dumb and won't notice their favorite character from their favorite show is missing crucial details / has wrong colors / etc" excuse.
@bananaworld said:
"And yet, many people on these sites are willing to turn a blind eye when it comes to a certain author of a franchise featuring a pupil at a magic school.
Mention their transphobia and LOADS of people use the block button on you! :-D"
I don’t want to start up this debate again but just know that I hate Rowling just as much as you and I’ve never bought a single Harry Potter set in my life, new or used.
But back to the debate at hand. As I said before, the helmet holes, in my eyes, are a complete non-issue. The printed kamas are definitely frustrating but I can see why they’re implemented in cheaper sets. Cloth elements have undoubtedly become premium in modern Lego sets. I’ve seen a lot of people point out that figures in Dreamzzz still have cloth pieces - but note that these are ONLY in the larger sets. While Izzie has a waistcape in 71461 and 71469 (the two largest sets of the entire theme, both retailing for over $100 each), every other set she appears in DOES NOT include the cloth piece. This, for the most part, makes the printed kamas completely understandable. Where the issue comes about is the continued use of printed kamas in larger sets, including even the UCS Venator, which should definitely have included one for the price you pay. It is a set intended exclusively for display, rendering the lack of a proper kama incredibly strange.
@Monopoly:
I think the key difference between your example of Dreamzzz vs Star Wars is you're not going to be army-building a named character from Dreamzzz. Lots of people do it for Star Wars. With the former, you can upgrade your main character if you finally get your hands on one of the expensive sets. With the latter, you'd just end up mixing premium minifigs with basic ones. In that regard, it does make more sense that the SW team would want to maintain a consistent design aesthetic, while the Dreamzzz team might feel a fancier version of a key character would be a draw.
I guess I just don't mind it that badly. Just sad we live in an age where raging gets clicks and that is how people earn their living. So gotta rage out about the ABS plastic helmets to keep food on the table I suppose. Just so odd.
@Monopoly said:
" @bananaworld said:
"And yet, many people on these sites are willing to turn a blind eye when it comes to a certain author of a franchise featuring a pupil at a magic school.
Mention their transphobia and LOADS of people use the block button on you! :-D"
I don’t want to start up this debate again but just know that I hate Rowling just as much as you and I’ve never bought a single Harry Potter set in my life, new or used.
But back to the debate at hand. As I said before, the helmet holes, in my eyes, are a complete non-issue. The printed kamas are definitely frustrating but I can see why they’re implemented in cheaper sets. Cloth elements have undoubtedly become premium in modern Lego sets. I’ve seen a lot of people point out that figures in Dreamzzz still have cloth pieces - but note that these are ONLY in the larger sets. While Izzie has a waistcape in 71461 and 71469 (the two largest sets of the entire theme, both retailing for over $100 each), every other set she appears in DOES NOT include the cloth piece. This, for the most part, makes the printed kamas completely understandable. Where the issue comes about is the continued use of printed kamas in larger sets, including even the UCS Venator, which should definitely have included one for the price you pay. It is a set intended exclusively for display, rendering the lack of a proper kama incredibly strange."
For what it's worth, my son (6yo) and I just built 71469, which is a pretty large set with a bunch of fiddly parts. The only thing he really struggled with (and asked me to do for him) was putting on Izzie's waist cloth. That being said, he was adamant that we use the waist cloth - apparently it elevates the minifigure in his eyes.
I would be curious to see a review of a star wars set by a non star wars fan, to see if issues like these effect their opinion on the set. Does anyone know any such reviewers?