Random set of the day: John Hancock Centre
Posted by Huwbot,
Today's random set is 19720 John Hancock Centre, released during 2008. It's one of 4 Architecture sets produced that year. It contains 69 pieces.
It's owned by 201 Brickset members. If you want to add it to your collection you should find it for sale at BrickLink, where new ones sell for around $845.10, or eBay.
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40 comments on this article
This doesn't look like Will Smith.
@Miyakan said:
"This doesn't look like Will Smith."
Clearly it hasn't slapped you hard enough.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Good grief, isn’t having the biggest signature on the Declaration of Independence and his name being a euphemism for signatures as a result enough?
@WolfpackBricksStudios:
There's a certain amount of irony in the fact that it's essentially impossible to exit the Union that ultimately resulted from this line of reasoning, unless you do so as an individual. It is worth noting, however, that the _first_ attempt at creating the United States (the Articles of Confederation) lasted all of eight years and four days before being scrapped in favor of the current Constitution.
If this set contains 69 pieces, then how come it says 67? Extra pieces?
Hey, hey, hey, dis is America, it's Center, none of dat Centre crap. Da picture even says so, and while dis set may not do much, it's da little tings dat count, just like da Bears. Daaaaa bears...
So how come this qualifies as an official Lego set? Did Lego actually package it? Is that what "Published by the LEGO Group" means?
They have got a better picture of the actual building rather than the model.
There is a picture of a tree on the box, but there is no tree in the box. 0/5 stars, would not recommend.
Wow. Lego just got an image of the building, stuck a few bricks on top of eachother, chucked 'em in a box and called it a day.
Weird that they made a limited edition with only 1250 sets and then they re-released it with a different box 21001 .
Now people sell the old one by ~$900 (ppp $13) and the new one for $30.
Not exactly the most interesting looking set but then it doesn't look like the most interesting building to begin with
@AllenSmith said:
"So how come this qualifies as an official Lego set? Did Lego actually package it? Is that what "Published by the LEGO Group" means?"
This was one of the original Architecture sets.
Architecture started out as a project by an AFOL, Adam Reed Tucker. He at first made and sold models of famous landmarks with lego bricks (I recall reading they were bigger and used modified bricks). This was called Brickstructures Inc. Lego noticed this and approached him to together create an oficial line, the first Architecture line. Hence the 'published' bit.
AFOL participation in set design was nothing new at the time. 3739 Blacksmith Shop, Lego Factory sets like 5524 Airport and 10192 Space Skulls and even the first Modular Buildings 10190 Market Street (technically also Factory) and 10182 Café Corner were all made with AFOL input. Factory in particular was born from a program where you could build a digital model and have it sent over as a set to your home. The sets in that theme were all made in collaboration with fans of lego.
But this line was a first: an entire line of sets by one AFOL. And they became known for their premium packaging with all black boxes (later versions of this set had that too) with an opening flap top. And as PurpleDave can attest, black means a lot of layers of ink.
Btw, sets aimed at AFOLs are even older. Model Team did it in the late 80s and the 90s, then the Ultimate Collectors series of Star Wars took over at the turn of the millennium. By 2008 there was a sizable amount of giant sets (but now considered small now 18+ churns them out each month) aimed at older teens and adults.
@WaterBottle123 basically, that's what Architecture started out as. You bought sets like this more for the novelty and premium box than the bricks. And probably if you like Architecture and like lego enough to keep a model of a building on your desk.
That's why I wasn't a fan, personally. A bit too minimalistic for the price to me. But looking back, I understand the appeal. There weren't as many 'adult' options back then after all. And apparently presenting lego sets like they aren't a building toy appeals to certain people.
Fortunately Architecture has since stepped up its game to make actually detailed scale models. Even if the simplicity of the originals is lost.
Can "Brickstructures" be called "Bricktures"?
So the inflated aftermarket price is basically just for for the box.
All the pieces are super common, except for the printed tile. And even that doesn't seem that rare, since new ones can be had on Bricklink for about 5 Euros.
@Miyakan said:
"This doesn't look like Will Smith."
Hancock! Bad Guys!
@AustinPowers said:
"So the inflated aftermarket price is basically just for for the box.
All the pieces are super common, except for the printed tile. And even that doesn't seem that rare, since new ones can be had on Bricklink for about 5 Euros. "
There are plenty of similar examples of expensive packaging, where the packaging proves you have a rare item that contains common contents. Various comic con figures such as Azog, Bard, Bilbo in a cloth bag and from other events such as Lester blister pack vs polybag.
There are two things that make the actual tower standout:
1) The tapering shape
2) The structural trusses visible on the outside, especially those iconic X-braces
Both are completely absent on the model.....I would have never guessed this was supposed to be the John Hancock Center....
Not to be confused with the SEARS tower 19710 which has single width bricks instead of double. Funny I thought 1 of 1250 meant number 1, but I guess all 1250 boxes say the same. Over-priced limited edition sets are only interesting until the next over-priced limited edition set.
@jkb said:
" @Miyakan said:
"This doesn't look like Will Smith."
Hancock! Bad Guys!"
What you want, a cookie?
@TheOtherMike said:
" @jkb said:
" @Miyakan said:
"This doesn't look like Will Smith."
Hancock! Bad Guys!"
What you want, a cookie?"
A******!
@Miyakan said:
"This doesn't look like Will Smith."
It doesn’t look like the John Hancock Centre either…
For more Brickset discussion of the earliest Architecture sets I'd recommend the earlier Sears Tower RSotD article thread:
https://brickset.com/article/44138
@AustinPowers said:
"So the inflated aftermarket price is basically just for for the box.
All the pieces are super common, except for the printed tile. And even that doesn't seem that rare, since new ones can be had on Bricklink for about 5 Euros. "
Welcome to collecting.
@Andrusi said:
" @AustinPowers said:
"So the inflated aftermarket price is basically just for for the box.
All the pieces are super common, except for the printed tile. And even that doesn't seem that rare, since new ones can be had on Bricklink for about 5 Euros. "
Welcome to collecting."
Yeah, at some point, collecting should become about what you select, and not what you complete. And I say that as a compulsive completionist.
@ambr said:
"Over-priced limited edition sets are only interesting until the next over-priced limited edition set."
Although if you have one, they are pretty interesting in that you can sell the box and the 69 pieces inside it, and buy something like Rivendell and Barad-Dur (for example) and build with those 11,600 parts instead.
Is a signed copy worth more?
@Binnekamp said:
" @AllenSmith said:
"So how come this qualifies as an official Lego set? Did Lego actually package it? Is that what "Published by the LEGO Group" means?"
This was one of the original Architecture sets.
Architecture started out as a project by an AFOL, Adam Reed Tucker. He at first made and sold models of famous landmarks with lego bricks (I recall reading they were bigger and used modified bricks). This was called Brickstructures Inc. Lego noticed this and approached him to together create an oficial line, the first Architecture line. Hence the 'published' bit."
Adam was one of the first few LEGO Certified Professionals, though I don’t know the timing on that vs the transition from Brickstructures to LEGO Architecture. Brickstructures wasn’t really about specific landmarks, but was just a way to make glass-wall skyscrapers like the Sears Tower. I saw what he was trying to market at House of Bricks 2. It was basically 1x Technic bricks with holes drilled in the ends to accommodate a half-pin, and then a bunch of window panels that would each hang from a single half-pin. It didn’t involve any interiors, nor was it designed for anything besides that glass-wall look. Separately, he started building MOCs of famous landmarks, but this weren’t available as kits.
The initial wave of Architecture sets was designed more as tourist souvenirs than retail LEGO sets. The limited edition ones were intended for sale at the sites they represented, I believe, so this set would have initially only been sold in the gift shop of the John Hancock Center.
"AFOL participation in set design was nothing new at the time. 3739 Blacksmith Shop, Lego Factory sets like 5524 Airport and 10192 Space Skulls and even the first Modular Buildings 10190 Market Street (technically also Factory) and 10182 Café Corner were all made with AFOL input."
I don’t believe that’s the case for Cafe Corner.
"Factory in particular was born from a program where you could build a digital model and have it sent over as a set to your home. The sets in that theme were all made in collaboration with fans of lego."
The official Factory sets were designed by AFOLs who were invited to participate, and you could just buy those sets through direct sales. Anyone else could design their own sets, but they were produced as one-off copies as you ordered them. I don’t know if anyone else could hop on the Factory website and order them unless you shared your design with them first.
"But this line was a first: an entire line of sets by one AFOL. And they became known for their premium packaging with all black boxes (later versions of this set had that too) with an opening flap top. And as PurpleDave can attest, black means a lot of layers of ink."
That was someone else who had a background in printing who explained that, but I do remember that it comes down to the fact that liquid ink can only carry so much pigment, and printer paper can only absorb so much liquid before it loses structure. So, you have to do multiple passes to get the desired amount of pigment bonded to the paper. And also it needs to have a hint of color to it or it’ll look cheap.
@Andrusi said:
" @AustinPowers said:
"So the inflated aftermarket price is basically just for for the box.
All the pieces are super common, except for the printed tile. And even that doesn't seem that rare, since new ones can be had on Bricklink for about 5 Euros. "
Welcome to collecting."
I've never collected anything in my life, at least not in the sense of being a completionist.
Hence the notion of spending absurd amounts of money on something that objectively isn't worth even a fraction is completely incomprehensible to me.
I can at least appreciate why people spend lots of money on something like watches, hypercars, or jewelery, because there you also pay for the rare and valuable materials and the craftsmanship that went into putting these things together.
But this set (and others like it that also fetch absurd prices on the aftermarket) is nothing like such items. It's made of run of the mill LEGO pieces and the only "value" is in a cheap cardboard box that's not as common as every normal LEGO box.
@Binnekamp said:
" @AllenSmith said:
"So how come this qualifies as an official Lego set? Did Lego actually package it? Is that what "Published by the LEGO Group" means?"
This was one of the original Architecture sets.
Architecture started out as a project by an AFOL, Adam Reed Tucker. He at first made and sold models of famous landmarks with lego bricks (I recall reading they were bigger and used modified bricks). This was called Brickstructures Inc. Lego noticed this and approached him to together create an oficial line, the first Architecture line. Hence the 'published' bit.
AFOL participation in set design was nothing new at the time. 3739 Blacksmith Shop, Lego Factory sets like 5524 Airport and 10192 Space Skulls and even the first Modular Buildings 10190 Market Street (technically also Factory) and 10182 Café Corner were all made with AFOL input. Factory in particular was born from a program where you could build a digital model and have it sent over as a set to your home. The sets in that theme were all made in collaboration with fans of lego.
But this line was a first: an entire line of sets by one AFOL. And they became known for their premium packaging with all black boxes (later versions of this set had that too) with an opening flap top. And as PurpleDave can attest, black means a lot of layers of ink.
Btw, sets aimed at AFOLs are even older. Model Team did it in the late 80s and the 90s, then the Ultimate Collectors series of Star Wars took over at the turn of the millennium. By 2008 there was a sizable amount of giant sets (but now considered small now 18+ churns them out each month) aimed at older teens and adults."
Thank you for your explanation. I was curious about this particular box though. I lived through that whole era as an AFOL and am decently acquainted with the AFOL efforts then. I knew the Architecture line sprang out of Adam Reed Tucker's initial MOC/homemade sets he was selling. What I do not know is the official history of this particular box and the nature of the Lego logo thereon.
I have two other Adam Reed Tucker sets made for eBay University Programs in 2013. One is packaged in a nice printed box, the other is in a round plastic jar with a screw lid. Both contain instruction books made with LPub. Both also carry the Lego logo on the outside, with "Certified Professional" and Adam Reed Tucker's signature next to them. The box set also has a disclaimer only visible inside the flap: "This is not a LEGO® Product. LEGO is a registered Trademark of the LEGO Group, which does not sponsor, authorize or endorse this product." I have some sets from a different LCP which have the same LCP Lego logo and a disclaimer.
So my real question is: was the box pictured above actually produced in the Lego factory with Lego instructions? Or was it produced by Mr. Tucker with Lego legal blessing? Who managed the distribution? If made by Lego, I'm curious why they minimized their own branding, and allowed an unrelated brand to appear. That would be especially grimly ironic now that I've learned the original Brickstructures products were mutilated Lego, since the charming people at TLG were mostly recently seen suing out of existence the Dutch train guy that had the audacity to apply third-party printing to Lego bricks and then even to mix them with non-Lego elements in the same box.
@AllenSmith:
I _believe_ these Limited Edition versions were the ones that were originally exclusive to the sites represented, where you’d be able to pick between an overpriced stack of 2x2 bricks, an overpriced pencil sharpener, or an overpriced snowglobe representing the same building. And then the common box would have been the version they released as regular retail sets. Architecture ended up an in-house theme with a handful of outside designers (all of whom had to be trained architects to participate), and finally a fully in-house theme that no longer used outside designers (pretty sure they dropped the “architect” requirement at this point). As an LCP, Adam would have still been allowed to package and sell his own sets, and I know he had a roller coaster kit before TLG produced their own coaster track system. That would probably include the right to use the LEGO logo as long as it was made clear that the overall product was not produced by LEGO.
If the Dutch guy was not an LCP, then he had no legal right to use the LEGO logo anywhere on the box, for starters. Officially, I know they’ve made it known that they’re okay with custom prints on bricks, as long as they aren’t done on minifigs. And of course people still print on minifigs anyways, but I don’t think it was printing that got him in hot water. If it’s the guy I’m thinking of, I believe the sets used a mix of LEGO and clone brand bricks, at which point someone could get injured on one of the clone parts, and someone else’s designs spot the LEGO logo on the other parts and file a lawsuit against them.
@Rumble_Strike said:
"Is a signed copy worth more? "
Yes, a copy with the ‘john hancock’ of John Hancock would be worth more.
Never hear of this set before! Maybe it's a new category "Obscure set of the Day" :)
@Blockwork_Orange said:
"Never hear of this set before! Maybe it's a new category "Obscure set of the Day" :)"
Oh, this first wave was quite famous…or rather, infamous. When 21000, 21001, 21002, and 21003 released a year later, they were not received well by cost-conscious AFOLs. Priced at $19.99, and ranging from 57-77pcs in size, even the best deal was still 26 cents per piece (and being tan parts in 2009 only made it slightly more palatable). Mostly Sears, but also Hancock, were widely disparaged for just being expensive stacks of common black parts. Ironically, the Space Needle (worst price per piece of the lot) at least got some respect for being more than just a bunch of basic bricks stacked vertically.
Anyways, looking into these early sets, it appears only Sears and Hancock got Brickstructures editions in 2008. Both are based out of Chicago, while the next two are from New York City and Seattle, respectively. Adam is from Chicago, so I’m certain that’s why he started with those. It would have been easier to pitch those to whoever ran the gift shops in those buildings, where the other two might have required flying to those cities (possibly multiple times, even). And 21000 got replaced by 21000-2 two years after launch.
My curiosity, though, is why Steen Sig Andersen has design credit on some of these, when the boxes clearly note that Adam designed them. Did Steen have to give them a once over, or just do a handoff of the submitted design to whatever department needed to seem them next?
@PurpleDave said:
"I don’t believe that’s the case for Cafe Corner."
It was, actually, as you can read in the first part of my interview with Jan Beyer (towards the end):
https://bricknerd.com/home/jan-beyer-the-beginnings-of-a-lego-journey-3-5-25
@gunther_schnitzel said:
" @Rumble_Strike said:
"Is a signed copy worth more? "
Yes, a copy with the ‘john hancock’ of John Hancock would be worth more."
Hear that, time travelers?
@TheOtherMike said:
" @gunther_schnitzel said:
" @Rumble_Strike said:
"Is a signed copy worth more? "
Yes, a copy with the ‘john hancock’ of John Hancock would be worth more."
Hear that, time travelers?"
Rufus! Excellent!!
I used to live a few buildings away from the tower. Those were fun times.
I still love to have a drink at the bar on top. One of the best views of the city.
@hazel77 said:
" @PurpleDave said:
"I don’t believe that’s the case for Cafe Corner."
It was, actually, as you can read in the first part of my interview with Jan Beyer (towards the end):
https://bricknerd.com/home/jan-beyer-the-beginnings-of-a-lego-journey-3-5-25"
Can't currently get the site to load, so I'll have to wait until later to read this.