BDP8: (Nearly) Completing a Medieval Cathedral

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Voting for BrickLink Designer Program series eight submissions is currently underway and Brickset member Arselus has a new iteration of his cathedral among the models. In this article he discusses what's changed since last time:

When the Bricklink Designer Program Series 1 was announced, I made it my goal to contribute to the world of LEGO Castle by designing a medieval cathedral during construction. As many visitors have experienced, cathedrals are true masterpieces of the Middle Ages, showcasing centuries of art, architecture, culture, engineering and innovation.

I wanted to capture the splendour of these structures in minifig scale to create a centrepiece for many medieval towns and villages built by fans around the world. I documented my design journey from BDP 1 – BDP 6 here at Brickset.

The journey has continued through BDP 7, and now into BDP 8. In BDP 8 I did a ground-up redesign with the intent of (nearly) completing the cathedral. Cathedrals often took decades (or even several centuries) to build, so stretching the story of this design over 8 rounds of BDP has been a fitting endeavour in and of itself. Allow me to share about the most recent iteration: the Medieval Cathedral.


The Structure

Perhaps the biggest challenge with designing the whole building was creating a rigid and stable structure to support the size of the build. The building is built on a 48 x 48 baseplate, has a height of 67 studs and a part count of 3997 bricks. Its physical presence is bigger and taller than 10305 Lion Knights Castle. This should not be surprising as cathedrals were often the same height as smaller castles.

For example, the Tower of London is 27m and Burg Eltz is 35m. Chartres Cathedral is 37m at the nave. Cathedral towers were far taller than many castles - the towers at Chartres are 113m and 105m. Strasbourg Cathedral’s tower is 142m tall! Not surprisingly, this Medieval Cathedral also towers over 10332 Medieval Town Square (67 studs vs. 28 studs).

The most logical approach for the structure was to build it “correctly,” using the same architectural and engineering principles that were used in real cathedrals. The internal structure is supported by pillars in the centre of the build, and thick walls and buttresses at the ends (note that the flying buttresses have been omitted to meet part-count requirements).

The walls, buttresses and pillars are connected with crisscrossing arches. This design simulates real arches and webbed vaulting that were used to support stone buildings of this size. Some openings in the unfinished roof and south tower allow a peek into the internal structure.


The Design Style

Master masons were in high demand in the Middle Ages. They often led construction sites across numbers of different cities and even different countries – allowing for a cross-pollination of styles and influences. Thus, our Medieval Cathedral has elements of both English Gothic and French Gothic styles.

Additionally, with the passing of time architectural styles changed. Cathedrals of the early Middle Ages are defined by the Romanesque style, employing the semicircular arch. From the 12th century and onwards the Gothic style became commonplace in church building. The pointed arch, originally adapted from Sassanid architecture of the middle-east, allowed for towering windows that would bring much light into the buildings and also allow for thinner walls than their Romanesque predecessors.

Our cathedral starts in the Romanesque style at its lowest level. Semicircular arches make up the lower windows, and doors. Conveniently enough the LEGO palette contains many semicircular arches of different sizes (3 studs, 4, 6, 8, etc.). This allowed for the build to have layered, cascading arches, as are often seen at Cathedral entryways like at Notre Dame de Reims. The lower levels also use bigger bricks, simulating thicker walls, as seen in Norman-style cathedrals like Durham. This was convenient, as limiting the part-count was essential in attempting to achieve the grand size of the build.

As we climb the structure, we see the more elegant and elongated Gothic arch, allowing for taller, narrow windows. With the tallest and most delicate windows being towards the top of the build. These windows use the candle element (37762) to create thinner internal pillars that simulate the finely carved stone of Gothic windows. These upper portions of the cathedral would have been built in later centuries when the stonemasons craft had been further refined.

The circular rose-window has now moved to the western façade, as was more common. As noted before, the cathedral lost its flying buttresses (mostly out of necessity to reduce the part count). Stylistically this change fits with the story that this cathedral was started in the Romanesque period and completed in the Gothic period.


The Story

This project started out in BDP 1 as “the Medieval Stonemasons Guild”. A guild of masons was hired by an up-and-coming town (BDP) to build a cathedral. However, their construction was not successful (did not become a finalist). A great earthquake toppled the large pillar (internal design flaw, sorry!), and forced them to restart from the ground up (BDP 3-5). Lo and behold, just when the city council began to look favourably upon the build (a surprise mention by Brickset) a fire broke out (not selected as a finalist), and damaged the build site beyond repair, requiring another new beginning (BDP 6-7).

By this time, the town had grown in size and wealth (many more submissions in BDP) and the size of the building was expanded. Upon completing the eastern end of the cathedral, the city council refused to pay! Apparently, they spent their money on ships, food stores and experiments in alchemy (BDP 7 finalists).

Determined to finish, the stonemasons and master builder disassembled their own building and reused the materials to press on and bring the cathedral nearly to completion. Now all that remains is to name our cathedral. Will it be known as Saint Brickston’s? Brickminster Abbey? The Brickenburger Dom? Notre-Dame-de-Brickobourg? Or perhaps the city council (AFOLs) can think of a better name…


The End Result

I’ll let the renders speak for themselves. I hope you enjoy this finished product – and the journey it took to get here – I hope the Medieval Cathedral will do well in the voting stage of BDP Series 8.

Voting is open until 16th May 2025 and you can support my Medieval Cathedral here.

45 comments on this article

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By in New Zealand,

This should be a set!, although it would look even better with tiles covering the rest of the baseplate.

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By in Italy,

Very beautiful design. Congratulations. I'm sure I would buy if it was in the shelves.
I wanted to ask to the creator if he has pictures of how the final project should be, I mean the finished church.

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By in Australia,

Excellent build and fun, fascinating story.

I hope it gets through this time!

Id definitely consider buying this, just concerned what the AUD price would be.

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By in Netherlands,

I think it looks great and the build this way is much more interesting than a finished cathedral. I hope you’ll get picked!

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By in United States,

Definitely a stand-out of all the entries. Well done!

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By in Netherlands,

Nicely done, although I think tan bricks would've made it look even more authentic. But architecturally this is spot on.

I bought all of the medieval Bricklink sets so far, though this would be an easy pass for me, if it were to be selected for production. While I like some sense of realism in my quasi-historical LEGO sets, I prefer leaving out any form of organised religion and its associated structures. I have no problems with druids, however.

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By in Puerto Rico,

Huh, a great set that I will be watching carefully. Parts should be included in case people want to make it the complete version.

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By in Italy,

Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church.

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By in Netherlands,

@Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

They already did the Notre Dame. They also did Taj Mahal, but all of those are architectural sets which are incompatible with minifigures. Other than those, I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form. That's why I have a hard time believing this cathedral will ever make it to production, even if it's a direct-to-consumer set. If anyone wants to build a church or cathedral anyway, sites Rebrickable offer a perfect solution.

Also, LOL at the line 'typical secularist dogma' from someone demanding they build a church. We've had 2,000 years of that. :'-)

Gravatar
By in Italy,

@ToysFromTheAttic said:
" @Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

They already did the Notre Dame. They also did Taj Mahal, but all of those are architectural sets which are incompatible with minifigures. Other than those, I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form. That's why I have a hard time believing this cathedral will ever make it to production, even if it's a direct-to-consumer set. If anyone wants to build a church or cathedral anyway, sites Rebrickable offer a perfect solution.

Also, LOL at the line 'typical secularist dogma' from someone demanding they build a church. We've had 2,000 years of that. :'-)"


Strange that it makes you laugh, because when you say "I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form" in fact you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses.

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By in France,

I voted for it every single time since the beginning! WE NEED IT!

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By in United States,

Incredible design! I appreciate all the research you did into the time period and architecture, and I love the story! Nice job!

:)

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By in Netherlands,

@Roberto said:
" @ToysFromTheAttic said:
" @Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

They already did the Notre Dame. They also did Taj Mahal, but all of those are architectural sets which are incompatible with minifigures. Other than those, I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form. That's why I have a hard time believing this cathedral will ever make it to production, even if it's a direct-to-consumer set. If anyone wants to build a church or cathedral anyway, sites Rebrickable offer a perfect solution.

Also, LOL at the line 'typical secularist dogma' from someone demanding they build a church. We've had 2,000 years of that. :'-)"


Strange that it makes you laugh, because when you say "I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form" in fact you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses."


Coming from a traditional catholic background myself, I'm not unfamiliar with statements like these:

"[...] you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses."

However, replace 'secularist' with 'Christian', and I imagine that's what old school Romans would've said to Alexander the Great. Who knows, if it weren't for him, Italians might still be worshipping Jupiter. Some traditions just outlive others if that's what 'the masses' want.

Anyway, not here to start a theological discussion, but I do want to point out that 'secularism' doesn't have dogma's, since it's not an organised religion nor does it consist of a strict set of beliefs. Quite the opposite, in fact. You could say that there's a secular paradigm, the difference being that dogma's are accepted as unconditionally true, while a paradigm is a general philosophical or theoretical framework. But some might say that's just semantics.

Either way, societies are always moving and adapting to whatever fits their worldview in a particular time and place. While LEGO might adhere to what your refer to as a "typical secularist dogma of modern culture", there are other manufacturers who do produce churches made of little plastic bricks, so there's something for everybody. Or just build one yourself. :-)

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By in United Kingdom,

This would be great to get
Like the construction building a few years back

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By in United States,

So if we don’t vote for it this time we can look forward to a complete cathedral in a few terms? :p

Haha, just kidding. The creative angle this project takes I think makes it educational in a really unique way which hopefully “justifies” it for people who take a firm stance against Lego depicting religion.
There is a lot of silliness and inconsistency about that rule already, but people do seem to like Lego’s -stated- policy, and hey, that’s respectable. But in some ways something like this is a greater celebration of architecture than a lot of the sets in Lego’s own dedicated theme.

I have voted for previous iterations of this and it’s really cool to see how this project has evolved! Unfortunately I am probably priced out of whatever the final version will be, but best of luck!

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By in United Kingdom,

@DamienGButcher said:
"This would be great to get
Like the construction building a few years back "


Are there plans to complete to church
E.g. would I need 2 or 3 of them and maybe some extra parts to do it
I hope to see more of your progress on this if you are doing so
I would love to get to instructions for both versions of it if this doesn't pass again
I hope lego change thire rules on religious buildings because of Notre-Dame de Paris they made

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By in United States,

I don't know, it's kind of Castle theme and all that... do people still care about Castle and Space? (I'm sure it'll do great, and I love the building phases!)

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By in Canada,

I like it, awesome job. Unfortunately I'm not voting for it. This one, like many other big amazing sets, is beautiful but with the history of BDP prices I'm sure it will cost a small fortune, out of my budget. So this time I'm voting for smaller sets in the hopes that at least one of them makes it.

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By in United Kingdom,

I liked it and I voted for it in various forms, though oddly I prefer the more in construction sets than the closer to complete ones.

I don't think it fits in the castle theme genre, churches were quite different. You can always spot the inbuilt chapel added to castles or stately homes by the differences in architecture.

I would appreciate this as a sort of architectual diorama, the history of church building in it's various styles would be a great set. As a castle one would.

Gravatar
By in United States,

@Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

It's not secularist. They just realized that there are a lot of other religions out there, and to favor one over any others alienates their customers. It's the same reason many people in the entertainment business refuse to discuss their politics in public. It's not that they're apolitical, but that they realize not all of their customers will agree with them, and some will refuse to have anything to do with them if they think they're on the "wrong" side of things.

The truth is, Denmark is well over 90% Christian, so the people making these decisions are almost certainly Christian themselves (and the company even molded multiple GitD crosses that you could hang on your wall in the past).

@ToysFromTheAttic:
Notre Dame is officially a public building, owned by the French government, and the congregation is given free use of it. And the Taj Mahal is a tomb, not a place of worship. There is one on the grounds, but it's not represented in the scope of any of the sets. But this is BDP, not an official LEGO set, so rules are significantly more relaxed. They still won't allow certain themes, but those should have been weeded out of the process before they reached a point where we could actually see them.

@daniellesa:
You can frequently spot _any_ addition made to a building by the change in architecture. Look up the Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone National Park, and the difference in architecture between the original building and the wings that were added later is quite shocking. My childhood home had a porch added to the back before I was born, and an extension to the front entrance when I was growing up, and neither of these matched the rest of the house. Frequently, it's impossible to match the look, because the materials used in the original construction are no longer available, or not in the budget, when the addition is planned. Or, as in the case with our porch, intentions are different. The main house needed to withstand Michigan winters, but the porch was intended more for use during the warmer months. It wasn't insulated or heated, and had more window than wall on one side. But you could open those windows up, and any breeze would blow through the entire room like a tropical bungalow.

Gravatar
By in United Kingdom,

I'm not a fan of these multiple thumbnail photo grids which seem to have appeared in the last few months on Brickset. Full-width photos are the smallest truly visible on mobile. And it's not as if this lovely article lacks the word count to distribute full-width pics throughout. I must put in a feature request.

Beautiful build, by the way.

Gravatar
By in United States,

@mediAFOL said:
"I'm not a fan of these multiple thumbnail photo grids which seem to have appeared in the last few months on Brickset. Full-width photos are the smallest truly visible on mobile. And it's not as if this lovely article lacks the word count to distribute full-width pics throughout. I must put in a feature request."

Even on PC, the sidebar formatting means they only take up about 10% of the full screen. For some reason, I can't get them to expand on mobile, but I can on my laptop. Best I can manage on mobile is to zoom in on the page until they mostly fill the screen.

Gravatar
By in United States,

@ToysFromTheAttic said:
" @Roberto said:
" @ToysFromTheAttic said:
" @Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

They already did the Notre Dame. They also did Taj Mahal, but all of those are architectural sets which are incompatible with minifigures. Other than those, I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form. That's why I have a hard time believing this cathedral will ever make it to production, even if it's a direct-to-consumer set. If anyone wants to build a church or cathedral anyway, sites Rebrickable offer a perfect solution.

Also, LOL at the line 'typical secularist dogma' from someone demanding they build a church. We've had 2,000 years of that. :'-)"


Strange that it makes you laugh, because when you say "I think it's a good thing they're not producing traditional places of worship in toy form" in fact you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses."


Coming from a traditional catholic background myself, I'm not unfamiliar with statements like these:

"[...] you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses."

However, replace 'secularist' with 'Christian', and I imagine that's what old school Romans would've said to Alexander the Great. Who knows, if it weren't for him, Italians might still be worshipping Jupiter. Some traditions just outlive others if that's what 'the masses' want.

Anyway, not here to start a theological discussion, but I do want to point out that 'secularism' doesn't have dogma's, since it's not an organised religion nor does it consist of a strict set of beliefs. Quite the opposite, in fact. You could say that there's a secular paradigm, the difference being that dogma's are accepted as unconditionally true, while a paradigm is a general philosophical or theoretical framework. But some might say that's just semantics.

Either way, societies are always moving and adapting to whatever fits their worldview in a particular time and place. While LEGO might adhere to what your refer to as a "typical secularist dogma of modern culture", there are other manufacturers who do produce churches made of little plastic bricks, so there's something for everybody. Or just build one yourself. :-)"


His karma ran over your dogma.

I think this build looks fun, and I'd pay for it as a Member of Council.

However, I'd of liked to see more brick-built renditions of all those story points (fires, earthquakes, labor unrest).

Gravatar
By in United States,

@mediAFOL said:
"I'm not a fan of these multiple thumbnail photo grids which seem to have appeared in the last few months on Brickset. Full-width photos are the smallest truly visible on mobile. And it's not as if this lovely article lacks the word count to distribute full-width pics throughout. I must put in a feature request.

Beautiful build, by the way. "


The benefit of a grid on mobile devices is it can help avoid an article becoming extremely long if it has many pictures in a row. The downside is you have to click each photo in order to enlarge them. I'm often clicking on photos to zoom in and see details anyway, so I'm fine with it. but I can see how that would be annoying to some people.

Gravatar
By in United States,

On the question of Churches in Lego form, everyone's going to overlook that fact that Lego has an ENTIRE THEME devoted to Chinese traditional religious celebrations, including the depiction of Cai Shen, a Chinese God, in minifigure form?

I'm a secular liberal and I'm not turned off by the depiction of different religious traditions depicted at minifigure scale; in fact, I am quite interested in *all* of them. I love buying the Chinese Traditional Festival sets, including their religious elements, despite the fact I am not a Taoist.

Anyway, might as well vote against this one this round and maybe in round 9 we will get the full cathedral ;)

Gravatar
By in United States,

@apolloivanhoe said:
"On the question of Churches in Lego form, everyone's going to overlook that fact that Lego has an ENTIRE THEME devoted to Chinese traditional religious celebrations, including the depiction of Cai Shen, a Chinese God, in minifigure form?"

Sure, it's no different from minifigs based on the Greco-Roman pantheons, as long as you assume nobody actually follows either religion anymore. And that's the official policy of the Chinese government, that Journey to the West is a work of fiction. It's not really true, of course, but it is the official story. Regardless, Monkie Kid _is_ a work of fiction, which puts it in the same boat as Marvel's Thor.

Gravatar
By in United States,

@apolloivanhoe said:
"Anyway, might as well vote against this one this round and maybe in round 9 we will get the full cathedral ;)"

I knew someone would bring this up! >.<

By the very nature of the project I've sort of doomed myself to "the project that never ends."

Whether I'm a finalist or not I've got a delightful surprise for any fans of this story and build (still I hope to be a finalist).... I'll leave this very mysterious...

Gravatar
By in Italy,

@PurpleDave said:
" @Roberto said:
"Any medieval setting without a church or cathedral will always be incomplete. I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church. "

It's not secularist. They just realized that there are a lot of other religions out there, and to favor one over any others alienates their customers. It's the same reason many people in the entertainment business refuse to discuss their politics in public. It's not that they're apolitical, but that they realize not all of their customers will agree with them, and some will refuse to have anything to do with them if they think they're on the "wrong" side of things.

The truth is, Denmark is well over 90% Christian, so the people making these decisions are almost certainly Christian themselves (and the company even molded multiple GitD crosses that you could hang on your wall in the past).

@ToysFromTheAttic:
Notre Dame is officially a public building, owned by the French government, and the congregation is given free use of it. And the Taj Mahal is a tomb, not a place of worship. There is one on the grounds, but it's not represented in the scope of any of the sets. But this is BDP, not an official LEGO set, so rules are significantly more relaxed. They still won't allow certain themes, but those should have been weeded out of the process before they reached a point where we could actually see them.

@daniellesa:
You can frequently spot _any_ addition made to a building by the change in architecture. Look up the Old Faithful Inn at Yellowstone National Park, and the difference in architecture between the original building and the wings that were added later is quite shocking. My childhood home had a porch added to the back before I was born, and an extension to the front entrance when I was growing up, and neither of these matched the rest of the house. Frequently, it's impossible to match the look, because the materials used in the original construction are no longer available, or not in the budget, when the addition is planned. Or, as in the case with our porch, intentions are different. The main house needed to withstand Michigan winters, but the porch was intended more for use during the warmer months. It wasn't insulated or heated, and had more window than wall on one side. But you could open those windows up, and any breeze would blow through the entire room like a tropical bungalow."


..And all this is exactly the effect of the dogmatic secularism of modernity. Relativism, religious indifferentism according to which all religions have equal value and all are subordinate to the immanentist worldview (typical of modernity).

Gravatar
By in Italy,

@ToysFromTheAttic said:

" @ToysFromTheAttic said:

Coming from a traditional catholic background myself, I'm not unfamiliar with statements like these:

"[...] you are fully confirming the validity of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and how passively and stubbornly it has taken root in the minds of the masses."

However, replace 'secularist' with 'Christian', and I imagine that's what old school Romans would've said to Alexander the Great. Who knows, if it weren't for him, Italians might still be worshipping Jupiter. Some traditions just outlive others if that's what 'the masses' want.

Anyway, not here to start a theological discussion, but I do want to point out that 'secularism' doesn't have dogma's, since it's not an organised religion nor does it consist of a strict set of beliefs. Quite the opposite, in fact. You could say that there's a secular paradigm, the difference being that dogma's are accepted as unconditionally true, while a paradigm is a general philosophical or theoretical framework. But some might say that's just semantics.

Either way, societies are always moving and adapting to whatever fits their worldview in a particular time and place. While LEGO might adhere to what your refer to as a "typical secularist dogma of modern culture", there are other manufacturers who do produce churches made of little plastic bricks, so there's something for everybody. Or just build one yourself. :-)"


I'm not sure I fully understood your reference to Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great was a Macedonian king of the fourth century before Christ. Therefore he had nothing to do either with the rise of Christianity and the decline of Paganism, or with the end of the persecution of Christians by the Roman Empire and ceased with the edict of Emperor Constantine in the fourth century AD. Perhaps you were referring to him and got confused.

It was also thanks to him that Christianity could ascend and all European peoples, not just "Italians" (at those times there were Romans and Italics, Italians being a terminology consequent to the birth of the Kingdom of Italy) could convert. Because the European roots are Christian, Greco-Roman-Christian, and that is a fact, even though they are doing everything they can to make us forget it.

Anyway, not here to start an historical or theological discussion (there is nothing historical or theological here, only critical thinking) but when you say that "secularism has no dogmas because it is not an organized religion" you are saying something that simply does not correspond to the truth. It corresponds rather to a deception. The modernity in which we are immersed is full of dogmas, I mention only the most important ones: immanentist materialism, utilitarianism, worldliness, religious indifferentism, philosophical relativism, scientism, historicism, subjectivism, progressivism, and last but not least, so-called democr..y. All these are untouchable dogmas of modernity.

Not to mention the very latest dogmas that have come out since the postwar period until the last few years, they are so untouchable that if I even dared to mention them (but you have figured out which ones) I would almost certainly see this post deleted and perhaps even my account suspended. Are these not dogmas? They are, and we see it all too well in everyday life, where anyone who dares to challenge even one of them is singled out, sneered at and banned from society.

So, in conclusion, when I say that "I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church" I say this with full knowledge of the facts that at 99.9% this is something that is impossible to achieve, and precisely for the reasons I have explained. And the fact that in the face of certain externals there is always someone with their little finger up ready to giggle and retort with the usual relativist arguments typical of the average mass (and secularist) culture, is nothing but proof of what I have said.

Gravatar
By in Netherlands,

@Roberto said:
"I'm not sure I fully understood your reference to Alexander the Great. Alexander the Great was a Macedonian king of the fourth century before Christ. Therefore he had nothing to do either with the rise of Christianity and the decline of Paganism, or with the end of the persecution of Christians by the Roman Empire and ceased with the edict of Emperor Constantine in the fourth century AD. Perhaps you were referring to him and got confused.

It was also thanks to him that Christianity could ascend and all European peoples, not just "Italians" (at those times there were Romans and Italics, Italians being a terminology consequent to the birth of the Kingdom of Italy) could convert. Because the European roots are Christian, Greco-Roman-Christian, and that is a fact, even though they are doing everything they can to make us forget it.

Anyway, not here to start an historical or theological discussion (there is nothing historical or theological here, only critical thinking) but when you say that "secularism has no dogmas because it is not an organized religion" you are saying something that simply does not correspond to the truth. It corresponds rather to a deception. The modernity in which we are immersed is full of dogmas, I mention only the most important ones: immanentist materialism, utilitarianism, worldliness, religious indifferentism, philosophical relativism, scientism, historicism, subjectivism, progressivism, and last but not least, so-called democr..y. All these are untouchable dogmas of modernity.

Not to mention the very latest dogmas that have come out since the postwar period until the last few years, they are so untouchable that if I even dared to mention them (but you have figured out which ones) I would almost certainly see this post deleted and perhaps even my account suspended. Are these not dogmas? They are, and we see it all too well in everyday life, where anyone who dares to challenge even one of them is singled out, sneered at and banned from society.

So, in conclusion, when I say that "I wish for once Lego would get rid of the typical secularist dogma of modern culture and give us a nice Catholic church" I say this with full knowledge of the facts that at 99.9% this is something that is impossible to achieve, and precisely for the reasons I have explained. And the fact that in the face of certain externals there is always someone with their little finger up ready to giggle and retort with the usual relativist arguments typical of the average mass (and secularist) culture, is nothing but proof of what I have said."


There's enough coded language in here to know I'd waste my time trying to pick holes in your deeply conservative christian nationalist ideology, so I'm not even going to try. I will admit that the only thing I wrote "that simply does not correspond to the truth" was my remark about Alexander the Great. That indeed should've been Constantine. Don't you hate it when you mix up ancient royalty like that? ;-) Also: European cultural traditions long predate the (very forced) arrival of Christianity, and yes, all religions have equal value, namely to whoever's holding them.

However different and distant our worldviews may be, I do hope for you that LEGO will someday release a magnificent cathedral so you can put together your own glorious Dark Age utopia in brick form. My medieval town will happily stay secular, bathing in the glory of modernity that brought us the science to mass produce little plastic bricks.

Have a blessed day!

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By in United States,

@Roberto:
Again, I'm going to point out that the vast majority of Danes are Christian, that TLG has exhibited Christian roots, and that the reason they steer clear of producing religious iconography is not because they’re against religion, but because they recognize that not everybody shares the same beliefs. They don’t want to alienate anyone by presenting something that’s _against_ their beliefs. One great example I know the backstory on is the defunct Community Window program, which allowed LUGs to put original works in the brand ribbon windows at nearby LEGO Stores. While it wasn’t one of the original rules upon rollout, sometime during the span of that program they added a rule banning anything religious. According to a couple AFOLs I know, another member of their LUG was personally responsible for causing that rule to be created. The reason was that they put a Christian church in their local store’s window…in a predominantly Jewish community. So at least one person complained about it, and they determined the path that would cause the least offense would be to simply not allow displays of that nature, and eliminate any risk that Religion A would object to displays promoting Religion B.

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By in United States,

@ra226 said:
"I don't know, it's kind of Castle theme and all that... do people still care about Castle and Space? (I'm sure it'll do great, and I love the building phases!)"

Yes yes they do. Especially castle, which has been starved for the past decade. Literally every Castle related CMF if extremely expensive and sought after. Lego insiders rewards has had multiple classic space sets. If you think people don't like castle or space, you must not interact with Lego fans on a regular basis

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By in Netherlands,

@PurpleDave said:
" @Roberto:
Again, I'm going to point out that the vast majority of Danes are Christian, that TLG has exhibited Christian roots, and that the reason they steer clear of producing religious iconography is not because they’re against religion, but because they recognize that not everybody shares the same beliefs. They don’t want to alienate anyone by presenting something that’s _against_ their beliefs. One great example I know the backstory on is the defunct Community Window program, which allowed LUGs to put original works in the brand ribbon windows at nearby LEGO Stores. While it wasn’t one of the original rules upon rollout, sometime during the span of that program they added a rule banning anything religious. According to a couple AFOLs I know, another member of their LUG was personally responsible for causing that rule to be created. The reason was that they put a Christian church in their local store’s window…in a predominantly Jewish community. So at least one person complained about it, and they determined the path that would cause the least offense would be to simply not allow displays of that nature, and eliminate any risk that Religion A would object to displays promoting Religion B."


The only exception being religions deemed pagan, as they're no longer actively being practised. Although I'm sure there's someone somewhere who's upset about a CMF of Cupid. :'-)

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By in United States,

@Rowia said:
" @ra226 said:
"I don't know, it's kind of Castle theme and all that... do people still care about Castle and Space? (I'm sure it'll do great, and I love the building phases!)"

Yes yes they do. Especially castle, which has been starved for the past decade. Literally every Castle related CMF if extremely expensive and sought after. Lego insiders rewards has had multiple classic space sets. If you think people don't like castle or space, you must not interact with Lego fans on a regular basis"


It doesn’t take a lot of Castle fans with deep pockets to army-build a Castle CMF into being outrageously expensive. I know someone who did a display based on the graphic novel/movie “300”. He bought 300 S2 Spartan CMFs.

@ToysFromTheAttic:
I certainly wouldn’t object to the base minifig I used to make Cupillithid.

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By in Italy,

@PurpleDave said:
" @Roberto:
Again, I'm going to point out that the vast majority of Danes are Christian, that TLG has exhibited Christian roots, and that the reason they steer clear of producing religious iconography is not because they’re against religion, but because they recognize that not everybody shares the same beliefs. They don’t want to alienate anyone by presenting something that’s _against_ their beliefs. One great example I know the backstory on is the defunct Community Window program, which allowed LUGs to put original works in the brand ribbon windows at nearby LEGO Stores. While it wasn’t one of the original rules upon rollout, sometime during the span of that program they added a rule banning anything religious. According to a couple AFOLs I know, another member of their LUG was personally responsible for causing that rule to be created. The reason was that they put a Christian church in their local store’s window…in a predominantly Jewish community. So at least one person complained about it, and they determined the path that would cause the least offense would be to simply not allow displays of that nature, and eliminate any risk that Religion A would object to displays promoting Religion B."


You don't need to repeat yourself, I understood perfectly what you said, and I don't question the fact that there is a Catholic majority in Denmark in the same way that there is a Catholic majority in Italy. I am, however, saying something that goes beyond what you say. It is true that selling a product with precise religious references to a market that shares other religious sensibilities is not economically profitable. But this is just a pretext that comes in very handy for those who desire the secularization of (Western and particularly Christian) society. This is demonstrated by the fact that instead of diversifying products according to markets, they prefer to inhibit them altogether. And the inhibition mainly concerns, as it happens, the Christian West and Europe which has to deny its roots in the name of respect for minorities.

Needless to say that in this well-designed gear forced immigration has the precise purpose of feeding these minorities which serve to justify these ideological policies of inclusion and respect for different sensibilities. In summary, the market reasons are only apparently valid because they exclude a priori the possibility of diversifying markets, All in the name of a false respect for diversity behind which is actually hidden the will to subordinate the spiritual life to the material one. Namely, precisely, secularization.

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By in Netherlands,

@Roberto said:
" @PurpleDave said:
" @Roberto :
Again, I'm going to point out that the vast majority of Danes are Christian, that TLG has exhibited Christian roots, and that the reason they steer clear of producing religious iconography is not because they’re against religion, but because they recognize that not everybody shares the same beliefs. They don’t want to alienate anyone by presenting something that’s _against_ their beliefs. One great example I know the backstory on is the defunct Community Window program, which allowed LUGs to put original works in the brand ribbon windows at nearby LEGO Stores. While it wasn’t one of the original rules upon rollout, sometime during the span of that program they added a rule banning anything religious. According to a couple AFOLs I know, another member of their LUG was personally responsible for causing that rule to be created. The reason was that they put a Christian church in their local store’s window…in a predominantly Jewish community. So at least one person complained about it, and they determined the path that would cause the least offense would be to simply not allow displays of that nature, and eliminate any risk that Religion A would object to displays promoting Religion B."


You don't need to repeat yourself, I understood perfectly what you said, and I don't question the fact that there is a Catholic majority in Denmark in the same way that there is a Catholic majority in Italy. I am, however, saying something that goes beyond what you say. It is true that selling a product with precise religious references to a market that shares other religious sensibilities is not economically profitable. But this is just a pretext that comes in very handy for those who desire the secularization of (Western and particularly Christian) society. This is demonstrated by the fact that instead of diversifying products according to markets, they prefer to inhibit them altogether. And the inhibition mainly concerns, as it happens, the Christian West and Europe which has to deny its roots in the name of respect for minorities.

Needless to say that in this well-designed gear forced immigration has the precise purpose of feeding these minorities which serve to justify these ideological policies of inclusion and respect for different sensibilities. In summary, the market reasons are only apparently valid because they exclude a priori the possibility of diversifying markets, All in the name of a false respect for diversity behind which is actually hidden the will to subordinate the spiritual life to the material one. Namely, precisely, secularization.
"


Wow. That's... Not very biblical, at all.

"And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were once foreigners in Egypt” (Deuteronomy 10:17-19).

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12 ESV)

Any major company will do questionable things for money. I think everybody acknowledges that to some degree, whatever walk of life they come from. If you want Christian toys, there is a market for that. LEGO's just not one of those brands who produces those. Not because of ideology, but because of brand identity and because they thought they'd probably sell more products by not aligning with any religious affiliations.

Also, being a member of the largest religious group in the world, you really don't have to feel short-changed. If you look outside your window, there's probably a beautiful church not too far from you. There's enough for you to enjoy out there. Let others enjoy what they like. Not everybody in the world is against you. Times change and so do humans. Maybe someday your faith will go the way of Jupiter, but that's entirely up to the people of that era. Maybe by that time we'll get some sweet biblical CMFs.

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By in United States,

@ToysFromTheAttic said:
"If you want Christian toys, there is a market for that. LEGO's just not one of those brands who produces those. Not because of ideology, but because of brand identity and because they thought they'd probably sell more products by not aligning with any religious affiliations."

I think you can look at their policy on modern military stuff to see that it’s not strictly about making more money. They could probably make a bundle if they started selling WWI/WWII sets, but they drew a line (even if they sometimes forget). It’s rare to find a global company these days that tries to offend no one, and even rarer to find a company that has done so as successfully as this one. Yeah, sure, there are instances like this where someone gets upset about what they _don’t_ sell, but strictly on their product offerings, excluding those who continue to harp on the “no military” thing without really understanding what it means, I can only think of one small, yet vocal, group that complains about stuff that is on the shelves, and that’s one that you’re going to tick off at least one group of customers no matter what stance you take.

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By in Netherlands,

@PurpleDave said:
" @ToysFromTheAttic said:
"If you want Christian toys, there is a market for that. LEGO's just not one of those brands who produces those. Not because of ideology, but because of brand identity and because they thought they'd probably sell more products by not aligning with any religious affiliations."

I think you can look at their policy on modern military stuff to see that it’s not strictly about making more money. They could probably make a bundle if they started selling WWI/WWII sets, but they drew a line (even if they sometimes forget). It’s rare to find a global company these days that tries to offend no one, and even rarer to find a company that has done so as successfully as this one. Yeah, sure, there are instances like this where someone gets upset about what they _don’t_ sell, but strictly on their product offerings, excluding those who continue to harp on the “no military” thing without really understanding what it means, I can only think of one small, yet vocal, group that complains about stuff that is on the shelves, and that’s one that you’re going to tick off at least one group of customers no matter what stance you take."


Oh, there are always people getting upset about something, so I'm not at all surprised by that, but I find it rather fascinating when people get upset about something so incredibly specific, like this case, and then their rant makes them look like total bigots, who blame everything wrong in the world on everybody other than their own peer group. What strikes me most is the blatant hypocrisy, that they don't even seem to be aware of themselves.

When it comes to toys specifically, including adult collector products, I think it's good that we see a shift away from realistic modern-day weaponry. Kids shouldn't ever think guns are cool, and neither should grown-ups. It can be awkward, however, for instance companies releasing DC action figures without guns when they're traditionally portrayed with them in the source media. But that's fine.

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By in Italy,


" @ToysFromTheAttic said:

Wow. That's... Not very biblical, at all.

"And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were once foreigners in Egypt” (Deuteronomy 10:17-19).

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12 ESV)

Any major company will do questionable things for money. I think everybody acknowledges that to some degree, whatever walk of life they come from. If you want Christian toys, there is a market for that. LEGO's just not one of those brands who produces those. Not because of ideology, but because of brand identity and because they thought they'd probably sell more products by not aligning with any religious affiliations.

Also, being a member of the largest religious group in the world, you really don't have to feel short-changed. If you look outside your window, there's probably a beautiful church not too far from you. There's enough for you to enjoy out there. Let others enjoy what they like. Not everybody in the world is against you. Times change and so do humans. Maybe someday your faith will go the way of Jupiter, but that's entirely up to the people of that era. Maybe by that time we'll get some sweet biblical CMFs."


Once again you unknowingly use pre-packaged definitions for mass culture without the slightest knowledge of what you are saying.
The definition of "Dark Age" referring to Middle Ages was coined ad hoc by the Masonic Enlightenment to disqualify the entire Medieval Age and thus its all-time enemy: Christianity. On the one hand they defined dark age that they had in hatred, on the other hand they defined age of lights their own. What supponence.. The same empty supponence that is reflected, in minor scale, in all those little priests of secularism like the example of yours: they do not know anything, they do not want to know anything, but they cannot help but regurgitate their average scholastic indoctrination with the arrogance of those who think they have it all figured out and instead have nothing figured out.

"I will admit that the only thing I wrote that simply does not correspond to the truth was my remark about Alexander the Great".
Except that the entire vain tone of the sentence comments for itself.. But no, I'm sorry, that is just one of the many wrong things you said.

"European cultural traditions long predate the (very forced) arrival of Christianity".
What is speaking here is ignorance again, combined with disrespect. If there is anything that has not been forced at all in the world it has been Christianity, which has been hindered and persecuted for three hundred years since its birth. Even today there are millions of persecuted Christians around the world, whom no one obviously talks about.

"All religions have equal value".
Not again, Christianity has not the same value of Satanism or Voodoo, and even a child can understand why.
This is religious indifferentism, again secularization.

"Let others enjoy what they like".
Finally you said something right! Except that you should first of all repeat it to yourself, since all it took was a simple two-line message (not even addressed to you, moreover) where I wished for a Christian Cathedral to be put on the market to unleash your ridiculous claim of giving little lectures. And you are still not finished..

In conclusion, who really is the one who does not let others free to enjoy what they like, and not satisfied with the inaccuracies he himself writes goes to intercept the messages addressed to other users as well? Who is really the intolerant and bigot here? Really, the more you talk, the more you unintentionally confirm everything I am saying about the intolerance of modern thought and all its dogmas.

So please, don't take it too personally but take a break. Get your ego back to its proper measures, don't quote holy scripture improperly and take the opportunity to study history a little better, this time from the right books though..

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By in United States,

@Roberto said:
"The definition of "Dark Age" referring to Middle Ages was coined ad hoc by the Masonic Enlightenment to disqualify the entire Medieval Age and thus its all-time enemy: Christianity."

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Waitaminnit. Freemason? The same Freemasons who trace their roots to the Knights Templar? The same Knights Templar that the Vatican conspired with the French crown to declare heretics for the sole purpose of justifying the French crown confiscating their treasury because they were broke and it was a convenient source of income?

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By in United States,

Got past the expected arguing to say I like the church design.

Since people seem to like quoting famous past personalities, here's one of my favorites.
"People will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible." Napoleon.

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By in United Kingdom,

Getting past all the religious arguments and looking at it as a LEGO set, I like it.

My first ever job many years ago was working at Canterbury Cathedral (as a storeman, not in any kind of religious work!) and I think they have captured the building of such magnificent (from a historical architecture point of view) buildings very well?

You would be amazed to see what wooden structures are still left in the roof-spaces at Canterbury that are centuries old and this set recreates what I imagine it would have been like, especially considering everything was done by hand with no AI or computers in those days!

The only thing that might be an issue is the scaling? Making such a building minifig scale might make the cost prohibitive or lose some of the features / parts to make it in the appropriate price range. Examples are the Medieval Blacksmith alongside the Lion Knight’s Castle.

It is also nice to see an “unfinished model” which is also very accurate as many were constantly changing over time, plus it gives a chance for MOCers to "finish" it!

It is a great idea and I have already voted for it.

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By in United States,

@Roberto said:
"Very beautiful design. Congratulations. I'm sure I would buy if it was in the shelves.
I wanted to ask to the creator if he has pictures of how the final project should be, I mean the finished church."


Thank you for the kind comments - I have some ideas for how the final would look. I imagine it would require another 500-700 parts to finish. However, I have not designed this yet.

@AndyPol said:
"The only thing that might be an issue is the scaling? Making such a building minifig scale might make the cost prohibitive or lose some of the features / parts to make it in the appropriate price range."

Yes the scaling was extremely difficult to get right-ish (I hope that I have!). We rarely realize just how massive these buildings were. To build it to "true" scale would be unreasonable for BDP or even any casual fan (30k bricks minimum?). Instead, I've tried to build "to feel", creating a grand structure, but not overshadowing the Lion Knights Castle. The Lion Knights Castle is the upper limit, and the Medieval Town Square should sit below (in the shadow of) the cathedral.

There are size comps here:

https://flic.kr/p/2r2ZB3B

https://flic.kr/p/2r2ZADA

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By in Netherlands,

@PurpleDave said:
" @Roberto said:
"The definition of "Dark Age" referring to Middle Ages was coined ad hoc by the Masonic Enlightenment to disqualify the entire Medieval Age and thus its all-time enemy: Christianity."

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Waitaminnit. Freemason? The same Freemasons who trace their roots to the Knights Templar? The same Knights Templar that the Vatican conspired with the French crown to declare heretics for the sole purpose of justifying the French crown confiscating their treasury because they were broke and it was a convenient source of income?"


This guy would probably even defend the Spanish Inquisition -- and still blame everybody else for all the misery in the world. :'-)

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By in Netherlands,

Dear @Roberto ,

I have to give you credit for how dedicated you are to turning everything upside down what anyone says, even if they're trying to be sympathetic to your beliefs. It's nothing short but fascinating how you dismiss everybody else's belief system, but still feel you're the one being disrespected. It's the equivalent of a 5-year old, saying: "No, you are mean!" You're just using fancier words, and a lot of contrived -isms.

As I noted, coming from a catholic background myself, I'm fully aware what the catholic branch of christianity is about, but I also know there are many other denominations among the Abrahamic religions that call their faith 'the one true faith'. I respect each and every one of those, as long as they don't use their religion to justify any wrong-doings in the name of their chief deity.

Not trying to disrespect anyone by any means, and I full recognize there is still persecution going on against christians, along with many other minority groups everywhere in the world. But coming from a family with a long catholic tradition and heaving read A LOT about European history, I'm certainly not blind to all the horrors inflicted by the Church, especially during medieval times. That's why I very specifically used the term 'Dark Ages' -- and I'm not at all surprised you're triggered by that. But if you're unable to be critical to those in your own heard, you truly are a sheep.

Anyway, I won't be bothering you anymore. I'm going to enjoy my weekend in the most secular ways possible, and I hope you're spending it in a manner you enjoy. Have a blessed Sunday!

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