Two Technic cranes, 25 years apart
Posted by Huw,
When I first saw pictures of 42108 Mobile Crane I was immediately reminded of the similar 8460 Pneumatic Crane Truck from 1995 which was one of the first sets I purchased after coming out of my dark ages.
So, ahead of my full review of the new model, I thought it would be interesting to compare the two side-by-side to see what 25 years of Technic development looks like.
Have things improved? Judge for yourself after the break.
First though, here's how it appeared in the 1995 UK catalogue. It was one of five advanced Technic sets released in the second half of the year, all of which were excellent and at the time seemed like a step-change over most of the sets that had gone before. I couldn't wait to get my hands on one having seen it in the picture below!
The five sets were the last to be released before studless beams were introduced in 1996, most notably on 8480 Space Shuttle. Although It would be some time before studded beams were completely replaced in Technic sets, 1995 was nevertheless the end of an era.
Compared to 42108, it's slightly shorter and as a result looks a bit squat, although I don't remember thinking that at the time.
Like all Technic sets from that era it was built using a good mix of standard bricks, plates and slopes in addition to Technic beams and other parts. Nowadays it would probably be considered a System set!
Functionality wise, the two sets are pretty much identical, with proportional steering, outriggers and, of course, a crane boom that rotates, rises and extends.
The outriggers on the later model are controlled independently, but on this one they are raised and lowered in pairs using a wheel on each side, just in front of the rear wheels.
The stickers on the back are as good as the day I applied them, which can't be said for those the company produced in the 2000s.
The boom is raised by two pneumatic cylinders joined back-to-back, which enable you to move it up and down rapidly with a quick push on the pneumatic compressor, but without much control over its resting position. On the new one it's raised and lowered via a linear actuator.
The boom is rotated using the wheel at the back, which always seemed a bit pointless given it was easier to push it round, and indeed the new model has dispensed with this control.
The new model has a longer body and boom which can be raised higher, to around 15 degrees from vertical, compared to about 30 on the old one.
Here, both booms are fully extended.
I suppose superficially they look similar but of course the construction methods and the majority of parts used are completely different. Someone unfamiliar with today's Technic who had the original model might not appreciate that the new one is LEGO at all.
I would have liked to have told you what percentage of the parts in the 2020 set were in production in 1995 but the inventory has not yet been published so that'll have to wait.
8460 Pneumatic Crane Truck will always hold a special place in my heart but I'm not sure that I would say that it's better than 42108 Mobile Crane.
What do you think? Do you miss studded Technic sets, or prefer the sleeker, more polished appearance of today's sets?
I will publish my review of 42108 Mobile Crane in the next few days.
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37 comments on this article
While the looks and functionality of Technic sets have greatly improved for the most part, we can agree that the boxy and skeletal looks of the older models have a certain charm to them, regardless of whether you grew up in that era or not.
My personal opinion is that the purpose of Technic is to see the inner workings and learn how gears and pneumatics and everything works together. I don’t mind the studded bricks and think they look great.
Technic has always been my weakest knowledge of Lego builds. I am very well versed in regular System bricks since most my sets are those, and the 10.4 mm ball cup style that spun off from Technic and was used in Bionicle. But I only have a small handful of Technic sets proper myself...
Its a pity, I keep telling myself it would be awesome to go back and revamp some of the old Bionicle sets like the Rahi that focused on Technic with all the modern Technic panels and Power Functions to create a much more modern interpretation of those older sets. Or even give the Bionicle figures some Technic vehicles of their own (Kopaka on a Snow Mobile... all I need to say). But since pure Technic is my least knowledgeable place of Lego, I don't really know where I'd start to build those MOC's!
Thank you for an excellent comparison. 42108 looks like a worthy successor.
If you have ever played around with these kinds of models as a child, the pneumatic cranes would always beat the ones with linear actuators for strength.
The corners of the old Technic bricks somewhat limited how and where you could build, so getting rid of them in the studless models made a good deal of sense and allows much more flexibility of construction.
8460, for the win !
As someone who was brought out of their dark ages in 2012 - by the Technic Unimog - I look at the old pre-studless Technic and find it a bit crude actually. I'm not taking anything away from it, and I know there are many who prefer it to the newer, sleeker iteration, but I'll stick with the modern Technic, and of the two cranes, I'll take 42108 every time.
I don't collect technic but this is an interesting article; you guys should do more comparison articles. For instance over the holidays I just built both 10030 and 75252.
Once you see an old model compared to a new model it gives you a little more respect to the older model especially larger more detailed models. Though 10030 is not as accurate the fact that they could build it given the limited pieces available at the time.
The 'old' technic sets are full of nostalgic charm, I like seeing studs, THAT is what makes it LEGO... for me.
I actually think the update is the better model though.
Any Lego Set with a metal hook is a winner.
Would it be possible to convert the newer model to pneumatics? I'm not sure there's space for the tubes any more. But I must admit I prefer its sleeker construction, since that doesn't seem to be affecting my ability to see how things work. So my vote goes to the new crane, but I also admire what the older version represents. It would be fun to have both of them on display, but I doubt I can afford 8460 so long after it was was made!
I think the new one definitely looks newer.
I love old technic. And one of my goals is to collect all the old studded technic sets over 200 pieces. Thanks to brickset, I can see that I so far have 6 / 69 sets that fit that criteria. So I'm not going very fast on this collection goal.
I would also like Lego to do a discussion one off studded technic set. I thought they would have done so for the recent 20th anniversary.
The older model is better, if only because of the pneumatics. They are way more fun than linear actuators.
Modern technic seems more focused on looks than on functionality, so yes the newer set looks better.
But building with a limit palate of standard beams and connectors teaches a normal person much more about how to build functions than building a set using a ton of custom parts that a genius builder at LEGO was able to put together. Building used to have a certain logic that you could follow - you could look at a picture of the model and pretty much guess how to build it without instructions. Now it's like putting a jigsaw puzzle together using instructions. Without instructions today's Technic sets are completely unbuildable.
Obviously, I prefer the older technic style. I was a huge Technic fan, but abandoned it with the arrival of the liftarms and panels and odd shaped motors (much preferred the square-brick motors).
As an aside, no set has ever beaten the Pneumatic Claw Rig, 8868, for the most functionality vs number of parts.
I love good Technic models. Old or new isn't my primary issue. Problem for me with most of the newer models is the form over functionality aspect which I hate. To me, Technic is about the technical aspects and learning about them. The old sets and many of the older studless ones too followed this guideline so to speak. But for at least three years now Technic sets have moved ever further away from what Technic used to be about.
Some might prefer it that way, I certainly don't. And I have therefor stopped buying Technic sets altogether as long as there aren't any sets like those of old anymore. Overpriced and in some cases even licensed sets with stuff like app controlled functions just aren't what I associate with Technic. Period.
I think I'm the only one here who prefers studless Technic over studded Technic.
My issue with studded Technic is that it's really hard to build custom creations using only those kinds of pieces since it's a combination of System and Technic geometry.
With studless Technic, X, Y, and Z dimensions are in one stud increments which makes it very easy and intuitive to think about where things should go if you know geometry and the Cartesian coordinate system.
However, with studded Technic, the Technic holes are spaced in between the studs on Technic bricks and in the center of four studs on the plates, which means you have to learn both studded System geometry and Technic geometry which is half a stud off from each other. Therefore a lot of potential Technic holes or System studs get blocked when you build and my builds ended up becoming very bulky and awkward.
Now after building LEGO sets and custom creations for 15+ years I'm proficient at both System and Technic geometry, but this was really frustrating as a kid back then.
I completely agree with @austinpowers - for me the great thing about Technic is getting an understanding of engineering principles. And I've been able to do that with modern Technic sets and a copy of Sariel's 'The Unofficial Lego Technic Builder's Guide'. If you have an interest in Technic, do yourself a favour and pick up a copy. It'll teach you a huge amount about engineering and how to use Lego in its application.
Great review / comparison!
I've always thought that older models look more technic due to thir show of interior and functions. New models sure do look so much better with smooth cover pieces though. I guess it all comes down to preference.
While I'm partial to System sets, I appreciate the engineering in both of these and thank you for the comparison. If I had to choose, it'd be the older model. Feels more like a Technic build to me.
Thank you for the comparsion review with stunning photos, very interesting to read, hope you will do much more similar articles in the future.
As for the comparsion: these two models are only similar in scale in my opinion because the older one (8460) has much better functions. The look is really a matter of taste and Technic should be about proper functions and not the form. 8460 has a cool metal hook (the new model lacks), pneumatic cylinders (which work more authentic than the linear actuator), pair of synchronized stabilizers (the new model has only an ugly and lazy solution for the stabilizers), geared mechanism to turn the superstructure (is it really better to leave out just because you can turn the superstructure by hand as well?). The new model has only one advantage: 4 steerable axels (out of 4) while the old one has 2 (out of 3).
All in all I think that 8460 is still the king of middle scale mobile cranes. And it is weird that after 25 years of engineering LEGO Technic cannot surpass their own models.
If we talk technic I still consider older sets way better because of the better designed mechanisms that are actualy visible to be apreciated.
@BooTheMightyHamster said:
"And I've been able to do that with modern Technic sets and a copy of Sariel's 'The Unofficial Lego Technic Builder's Guide'. If you have an interest in Technic, do yourself a favour and pick up a copy. It'll teach you a huge amount about engineering and how to use Lego in its application."
Absolutely. I have it too. If only today's TLG Technic department would buy a copy and read it as well. Perhaps then they would see what awesome stuff they could put out even with today's pieces. But no, they think Technic fans want sets like a laughingly overpriced nondescript "Top Gear" rallye car or an equally overpriced "Extreme Offroader" that can hardly do anything off-road, let alone anything "extreme". Or sets like the Porsche, Bugatti or Land Rover which if TLG would be honest are no Technic sets at all but rather Creator Expert or Racers sets built with Technic pieces.
An even more clever comparison could be made between all three Technic Mobile Cranes LEGO has produced. the 1979 model number 955/855 Mobile Crane was the first (and still in my collection). It certainly had its limitations and was not nearly as fancy, but the basic principles are there and it shares many of the same boom and extension capabilities of later models, given its very early design.
@calculus_teacher how do you mean 'all three'? What about 8421, 8053, 42009, 42082, 42097?
https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Mobile-Crane/theme-Technic/
I think some of the best Technic sets ever were released in the period when studded and studless were mixed. 8421 (the best mobile crane), 8448 (the best supercar) and of course the legendary 8480 Space Shuttle.
I mean I like "new" Technic, I own a bunch of sets, and I appreciate how densely they can pack their mechanical designs now...
But look at those two, and tell me which one looks more like Lego? Which one has more of a unique character and which one looks more like a generic realistic toy, regardless of nostalgia?
The new one looks definitely better. But from the functionality aspect, the old model is clearly superior.
In my opinion, the outriggers of the new crane do not deserve to be called Technic. Outriggers which need to be pulled out manually, without any gears or similar, that is what we find in LEGO City sets. I find it this lack of functionality in new Technic sets very disappointing, while most of the sets 25 years ago had plenty of cool functions, which were ‘Technic’ and not City-like.
I love these comparison articles! It's so neat to see how Lego's methods and techniques have changed over the years... would be great to see more articles like this in the future :D
(And thanks again, @ brickset team, for the work you all put into creating things like this ^^)
I'm not a fan of the newer sets with all the body panels that cover up the components. I want to see how it works, and I want my 6 and 8 year old kids to learn mechanical movement from playing with those pieces.
Cranes hold a special place in my heart since I work in the structural steel industry. 42009 and 42042 are proudly displayed in my home office and me and my kids frequently play with them. But, the only Lego set that was on my recent Christmas list was 42097 mobile crawler crane since it has fewer body panels and you can actually see what's going on inside. As predicted, my kids and my 4 year old nephew loved helping me build 42097 and it got a lot of playtime the day after Christmas, more than any other present.
I like the older look. I don't care if it doesn't look exactly like the real world thing. I want to study it after it is all build. The newer models have more complex inner workings, but they can only be studied during the build process. While the working differential in 42009 was really cool to build, I can't easily show it to my kids.
Ok, rant over...gotta get back to work on real 6 ton steel beams, not 6 stud Lego bricks.
I tend to prefer studless Technic builds, though I grew up at the tail end of the studded era and can appreciate that system for what it is (and the great builds that it offered even despite the challenges that the extra thickness of the beams presented)
One thing I certainly don't miss about those older sets is those older wheels and tires! The newer ones, which are much easier to put on or take off thanks in part to the wheels being the same consistent width on both front and back.
What's always steered me away from old Technic sets is their aesthetic incompatibility with a System/City environment, which I of course prefer. That is to say, I'd love to welcome Technic sets as long as they fit in my Lego town. Lately, I've seen a style tendency towards a slow but steady Technic merge into the City "feel" (just to name one, the 42064 Ocean Explorer fits perfectly in my city harbour) which wasn't even thinkable up to the first years of 2000.
I have neither of the two cranes, but from the pictures and the nice comparison review (thanks, Huw) that tendency is more than visible. Technic is going studless, with less and less visible technic parts, using new parts and pieces to create aesthetically "sleeker" sets that surely don't give the blocky impression old Technic sets used to give.
I'm asking you Technic experts, though: to your knowledge, are the new models improving their technical performance as much as their aesthetics?
This is one of the things that Brickset was created for, I think. I love these kinds of articles.
"The boom is rotated using the wheel at the back, which always seemed a bit pointless given it was easier to push it round." This is also true of the Technic Compact Crawler Crane from this year BTW.
There also seems to be a lot of irony in what people want from LEGO Technic.
Some people like that older Technic models exposed the mechanics to teach about how things work, but there are others also want all the gaps covered to make the overall model look more realistic and more elegant.
Both are completely valid approaches to Technic, and I would guess it depends on the model. For something generic like a crane or a car, perhaps it'd be nice to expose the mechanics for that educational purpose, but for something iconic like the Bugatti or the Land Rover, then covering the gaps would be important to make it look realistic while still having the mechanical functions in there to represent the mechanics of a real car (such as the debated "useless gearbox").
I am not against another mobile crane, but I wish they make it in another color. And why not compare to 8053 from 2010? They are very similar in size and almost identical piece count (8053 only has 3 fewer pieces). And this model is exactly 10 years after that.
8053 is a different design, with huge great outriggers, arguably not as iconic as 8460, or as interesting in this context.
This new set doesn't show 25 years of progress at all. The old one beats it functions-wise, and the proportions are still off. There have been quite a number of well-made studless sets the last decade, this one is not among them.
Kinda ironic how LEGO did their best to improve the aesthetics over the years (in which they failed with this set), but at the same time began to colour-code everything. The mentioned 8480 Space Shuttle got white axles just to impróve the looks.