Interview with Mike Psiaki, designer of 10274 ECTO-1
Posted by CapnRex101,
10274 ECTO-1 was developed by Mike Psiaki, further augmenting his extensive product portfolio. We spoke with Mike recently and discussed this vehicle as well as its existence within the 18+ selection and relationship with other sets.
Brickset: What prompted the creation of 10274 ECTO-1?
Mike: We have actually been considering the ECTO-1 for some time. A few years ago, we compiled an extensive list of cars which offer potential as LEGO models. We usually consider which of those models to produce during May, between two and three years before they become available. For instance, this year we discussed possible products for 2022.
10262 James Bond Aston Martin DB5 was well-received so there is evident interest in movie vehicles. We do want to maintain focus upon real vehicles as well though, hence leaving a gap between the 2018 model and 10274 ECTO-1. I think the ECTO-1 would be considered among the most famous film vehicles and its appearance in Ghostbusters: Afterlife just cemented that choice.
10262 James Bond Aston Martin DB5, 10265 Ford Mustang and 10274 ECTO-1 are quite similar in some respects, each integrating numerous functions. What influence does the latest model take from its predecessors?
The steering mechanism is borrowed directly from 10265 Ford Mustang. There are some minor adjustments but the front axle remains almost completely intact. However, the ECTO-1 does include Hand Of God steering which I originally intended to include on the Ford Mustang. Unfortunately, the earlier model provided no obvious position to disguise a steering knob and these models are intended primarily for display so their outward appearance is more important than steering, in my opinion.
On this occasion, there are so many devices spread across the roof of the ECTO-1 that there were multiple options for the steering knob! One siren in particular seemed particularly appropriate. I was asked whether that siren could be scaled down slightly because it is too large but the 2x2 round brick was the most ergonomic element, ultimately. Also, that gave me an opportunity to recall a Technic front loader* which I owned as a child and featured the same 2x2 round brick for steering.
* Mike is referring to 8828 Front End Loader, released during 1992.
Working on 10262 James Bond Aston Martin DB5 also taught me a lot about LEGO mechanical elements. The pop-out machine guns on that model were originally connected to their activator using gears but I found those to be relatively inefficient. LEGO gears are required to perform many different functions so they are not necessarily perfect for any single role. The resultant lesson was that we only like to use gears when the function is turning something beyond 180 degrees.
An alternative liftarm bearing was therefore used inside the Aston Martin and I employed some comparable techniques for the extending gunner's seat and opening trapdoor on the ECTO-1. The construction is quite different though so there are still plenty of surprises for people who have built previous large-scale vehicles.
10274 ECTO-1 is based upon the vehicle from Ghostbusters: Afterlife. How easily can it be transformed into the original ECTO-1 and did you consider including additional parts for the ECTO-1 from Ghostbusters II?
The primary differences between the original ECTO-1 and this design are the rear suicide door on the passenger side, the position of the ladder and obviously the rust stickers. Swapping the ladder and omitting the stickers should be simple and the door could certainly be reconfigured, although I do not have an immediate solution.
In fact, our first development model of the ECTO-1 was based entirely upon the car from the original movie because we did not know what modifications were planned for the car during Ghostbusters: Afterlife. On that basis, updating the model to reflect its original appearance should be relatively simple because its fundamental shape has remained the same.
With respect to the ECTO-1 from Ghostbusters II, we did discuss that at one point. The most challenging aspect of that model is the yellow and black warning stripes on either side. These are incredibly easy to build and look excellent, using alternating 1x1 plates in yellow and black. However, assembling the stripes using alternating plates would require fundamental changes to the vehicle. An entirely separate manual would have been needed, I imagine.
Including the additional roof accoutrements may have been possible but excluding the stripes would potentially create confusion. Ultimately, it was decided that focusing upon one design is most effective, unless the modifications can be introduced with minimal changes to the original model. 10265 Ford Mustang achieved that but it was not practical here.
I hope somebody will assemble that version though! Actually, one of my colleagues, Adam Grabowski, constructed the black version of the Cadillac Miller Meteor that Ray arrives with during the original movie. Adam loves that rendition of the car and loves designing models in black, such as 76161 1989 Batwing!
What particular challenges did you encounter when designing 10274 ECTO-1?
The most difficult section of the bodywork is definitely towards the rear, where the fins taper smoothly. Designing that curve was not easy, although the result is quite accurate. One area where compromise was necessary is at the front, between the bonnet and the grille, since the bodywork should be angled further outwards as it moves up. Furthermore, the bodywork and grille should form a wedge shape when viewed from above.
We could have achieved either of those design features but incorporating them both was not possible using the pieces available at the moment.
On the subject of bodywork shaping, this model incorporates the 2x2 curved corner slope which was introduced with 43179 Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse. Was that element actually created for this model?
Yes. Ollie Gregory, the designer of 43179 Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse, saw this element during development. I am not certain whether he chose to include the camera because of this part or had already planned that but it worked out nicely. We do like to share new parts across different projects when we can, not least because it strongly validates their creation when other designers are excited to use a new piece.
This model also contains a new windscreen element. Why did the ECTO-1 justify this unique component while many previous cars have incorporated existing pieces?
Whenever we begin the design process for new products, we seek to employ current pieces rather than immediately assuming that something new will be required. However, there are two circumstances when introducing new elements is preferable. Firstly, situations where we simply cannot create the appropriate shape using existing parts but also situations where we can build the right shape but the assembly is prohibitively complicated or fragile. In either case, we need to ensure that the new piece also fits with the LEGO building system.
On the ECTO-1, it was immediately apparent that the windscreen on the Cadillac was totally distinctive and that none of our current windscreens were suitable. You can certainly say that about our other cars too and I think you might see that we tend to prioritise windscreens more in the future. Ultimately, the challenge is generally that we need the windscreen to appear accurate to the actual car while also functioning well as a LEGO element.
I think the example on the ECTO-1 is successful in that regard. Had we not been able to create something which feels consistent with the LEGO System, we would probably not have produced it. Looking back, I think something like 10262 James Bond Aston Martin DB5 would benefit from an element like this one. In fact, I plan to create another version of the DB5 which includes this component and I imagine that could look really great.
Another new element is the 5x5 steering wheel. Why was that created for 10274 ECTO-1?
Choosing how to describe the steering wheel was particularly troublesome, in this case. An argument could be made that it belongs with modified plates or specialised vehicle elements, depending on your perspective. That consideration delayed the design so it was not released with this car specifically, it just happened that everything was ready to go in time for this!
I think we made an exceptionally versatile piece because the steering wheel is two plates in height. You can therefore stack them with bricks between each wheel and the bar around the edge will be suitably spaced to connect things vertically. I have not done anything with this yet but have plans to do so.
The onscreen ECTO-1 features whitewall tyres which are not perfectly replicated on the LEGO model. Is that because the potential degradation of the rubber tyres prevents printing on them?
We can actually print on rubber when needed. The issue there is twofold. Printing white against black is quite difficult, especially on rubber. Also, the tyres feature moulded text that shows their diameter and we cannot print over that because the surface is too uneven. The resulting surface which is available for decoration is very narrow and I do not believe that would justify the further splash of white.
Instead, we used the white wheel rim that conveys the whitewall tyres to some extent. Maybe the technology will exist to print directly across the side of tyres in the future, but not currently.
Is there any difference between designing cars which are inspired by movies and those which depict production cars, even when the film vehicle is quite close to a production model?
There is a slight difference in my opinion. In some respects, the fundamental details of the vehicle become secondary to movie accuracy. For instance, I think capturing the red line that runs between the doors and the tail fins on the ECTO-1 was important, although its exact width is not necessarily vital. The proportions of production cars need to be absolutely perfect while those on the film vehicles may be altered to accommodate noted design features, if need be.
With that in mind, designing the movie cars is perhaps easier than production cars because particular details draw the eye. However, I think 10274 ECTO-1 succeeds as both the movie vehicle and the original Cadillac Miller Meteor. The engine compartment, for example, rivals that from 10265 Ford Mustang with regard to detailing and authenticity.
Was any consideration given to including minifigures with this set, perhaps matching 76139 1989 Batmobile and 76161 1989 Batwing?
We have not traditionally provided minifigures with Creator Expert vehicles, focusing instead upon the building experience and the model. However, I can see how the messaging might become confusing because our packaging has now become far more consistent between different product lines. The box alone does not necessarily distinguish 10274 ECTO-1 from 76139 1989 Batmobile so people might wonder why one contains minifigures and the other does not.
However, this particular model may present challenges when considering which minifigures to include. After all, this ECTO-1 is inspired by Ghostbusters: Afterlife so including those characters would seem logical, although it is difficult to imagine the ECTO-1 without the four original Ghostbusters. Suddenly, seven or eight minifigures might be required and it becomes difficult to justify providing that many.
Those discussions have taken place though, between Super Heroes and Star Wars designers and ourselves. We do need to align expectations between different ranges because there is seemingly little distinction between a fictional vehicle from Ghostbusters, DC or Star Wars. Anybody could easily display models from those themes together.
Taking the similarities between sets into consideration how successful do you think the 18+ branding has been thus far?
The new 18+ branding was introduced because our research demonstrated that the adult market is becoming larger, although some people struggle with whether LEGO is something appropriate to purchase for themselves. I realise that can be difficult to imagine within the fan community and I find it surprising too, but we know these people do exist!
On that basis, the 18+ branding has proven successful. Even in the relatively short time since it was introduced, we have seen that recent products have attracted more first-time adult buyers than before. The increase has not been enormous and other factors may be involved but the difference is significant.
Having said that, I do understand the initial scepticism and confusion surrounding the 18+ branding. I hope the products themselves have maintained the standard which everybody anticipates, although we are still learning how best to display these models with the darker packaging. 10274 ECTO-1 works rather well but there are factors which must be taken into consideration when the backgrounds are black.
Many thanks for speaking with us!
115 likes
35 comments on this article
Hearing that the Ecto-1 is a Creator Expert car and not something akin to the 1989 Batmobile and Batwing makes the exclusion of minifigures a very understandable point for me. If this had the Creator Expert badge it would make much more sense and I think the confusion could have been avoided entirely.
It’s a good guess in the set but I was actually referring to 8828 front end loader. That was my first ever technic model. It also features the amazing (and discontinued) flexible push rod system...
Very interesting, thank you.
I hope Lego will one day create Knight Rider, Kitt. My all time favourite TV/Movie car. ??
@pmiaki said:
"It’s a good guess in the set but I was actually referring to 8828 front end loader. That was my first ever technic model. It also features the amazing (and discontinued) flexible push rod system..."
Thanks! There are numerous similar Technic front loaders which include 2x2 round bricks to control steering from that period, from 8853-1 Excavator during 1988 to 8439-1 Front End Loader during 2004.
I usually don’t care for designer interviews. The answers are tainted by marketers in style and substance rendering them anodyne and vacuous.
But this interview was refreshingly candid about the challenges the designer faced and the solutions LEGO did - and didn’t - come up with. It’s nice to be treated like an adult! More of the same, please.
If you enjoy movie cars, then can we please have a UCS DeLorean?
Thank you,
The Wacky Wookiee
@Zander said:
"I usually don’t care for designer interviews. The answers are tainted by marketers in style and substance rendering them anodyne and vacuous.
But this interview was refreshingly candid about the challenges the designer faced and the solutions LEGO did - and didn’t - come up with. It’s nice to be treated like an adult! More of the same, please."
The Colosseum interview was similar, admitting and explaining deviations from real proportions. I think this is a response to wider criticism of previous D2C sets, as many people seem to latch onto inaccuracies. By giving a proper and logical explanation, the marketers at Lego realized this can be preempted by being open and honest about design approach. This way, people seem to accept that Lego must make compromises, which are inherent due to it being a system of building blocks, and not because designers were lazy.
The brickset database lists 10274 under the Ghostbusters theme and not under the Creator Expert theme where it belongs.
@pmiaki: Thanks for the interesting facts about yet another masterpiece from you. Already ordered mine and am looking forward for the next Creator Expert car. For me this line if just fine as is without the need for out of scale minifigures. In fact I wished the Batwing didn't have minifigs at all cause it looks best wall mounted. For the Ecto-1 I already have 2x the original Ghostbusters with their matching Ecto-1 and Firehouse HQ.
As a future wish, please choose less curvy iconic/classic cars. As much as I like the neat functions of your DB5, the curved body shape could not be matched well enough to make it recognizable. Something like the De Lorean, Pontiac Firebird, Lamborghini Countach, BMW M1, Lincoln Continental, Chevrolet Camaro would be ideal candidates. Fingers crossed one of them makes it some day on the shelves.
A new special windshield is always welcomed in a display model, but there is nothing worse than a scratched front window. Please always make sure to pack it separately. Most Ecto-1 video reviews I saw had scratched windows.
@inversion said:
" @Zander said:
"I usually don’t care for designer interviews. The answers are tainted by marketers in style and substance rendering them anodyne and vacuous.
But this interview was refreshingly candid about the challenges the designer faced and the solutions LEGO did - and didn’t - come up with. It’s nice to be treated like an adult! More of the same, please."
The Colosseum interview was similar, admitting and explaining deviations from real proportions. I think this is a response to wider criticism of previous D2C sets, as many people seem to latch onto inaccuracies. By giving a proper and logical explanation, the marketers at Lego realized this can be preempted by being open and honest about design approach. This way, people seem to accept that Lego must make compromises, which are inherent due to it being a system of building blocks, and not because designers were lazy."
To be honest I don't really remember a time when designers weren't forthcoming with details about the particular design challenges a set required—at least, not when the interview is sufficiently in-depth and the questions are being sourced from fans who have well thought-out questions prepared. Lego designers, when they do interact with the fan community, are often very candid about the kinds of constraints they are under, which is part of why I value this sort of direct dialogue—it can help to temper the expectations of a fan community that is often quicker to judge any compromise taken in a set than they would ever be when judging a fellow AFOL's MOC. Having human faces to attach to the designs we get in sets who can explain the design choices they made personally seems to help fans to empathize with the people who bring us these sets and makes toxic complaints of "laziness" or "cheapness" less prevalent.
I would love to see the DB5 remade, it just isn’t close enough to the original.
Now if they can figure out how to make the new plastic windshield more scratch resistant or package it better...
Creator Expert vehicles is my favorite theme, with their solid brick-built bodywork. I wish there was also a car hauler or flatbed truck that they could fit on. Sadly the Technic transport truck from last year is designed at a smaller scale. The Mack Anthem set has a great tractor but a horrible trailer. Another idea I'd like to see is availability of these cars in different colors, especially with models of production cars like the Mustang that could be a number of colors. But the printed parts on that set interfere with re-coloring.
@Double_J_Bricks said:
"Hearing that the Ecto-1 is a Creator Expert car and not something akin to the 1989 Batmobile and Batwing makes the exclusion of minifigures a very understandable point for me. If this had the Creator Expert badge it would make much more sense and I think the confusion could have been avoided entirely. "
I'd much rather vehicles be given their own logo and theme (perhaps a spiritual successor to Model Team?), considering, once again, there's nothing "Creator" about these sets. Rebuildability potential is left up to the most adventurous of fans who, granted, do produce some amazing custom work out of the bricks in these sets. But there's practically nothing on the box that encourages rebuildability. The retirement of that label is a good first step for these 18+ sets IMO.
What an extraordinarily, candid, detailed interview. Thank you very much to everyone involved in making this interview happen. Two thumbs up for Brickset, the whole Creator Expert team, and the Ecto-1 set too.
@CapNrex101: The question paragraph starting with "On the subject of bodywork shaping" should be bolded.
Interesting long article on limitations and creative solutions. Seems to be an expert on curves with the VW beetle 10252 and Harley Davidson 10269, although my favourite creation of his is the Carousel 10257.
I think that’s the best interview I’ve read. Detailed, honest and free from TLG ‘Corporate Comm Babble’. Thanks for a great product design!
"The new 18+ branding was introduced because our research demonstrated that the adult market is becoming larger, although some people struggle with whether LEGO is something appropriate to purchase for themselves..."
Good to know & read. Thanks
I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it.
Sure, it has got cool functions, but the Trabant-like look is horrible and doesn't do the beautiful original any justice.
I really love the Creator Expert vehicle line, but the DB5 sticks out like a sore thumb. Totally overpriced as well.
@AustinPowers said:
"I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it.
Sure, it has got cool functions, but the Trabant-like look is horrible and doesn't do the beautiful original any justice.
I really love the Creator Expert vehicle line, but the DB5 sticks out like a sore thumb. Totally overpriced as well. "
Keep in mind that Lego gets MUCH more feedback on sets than just what is posted online. Not only do they have sales data after a set has been out for a while, but they also receive private feedback and customer surveys. These sorts of feedback can often be more representative of a set's reception than reviews or public comments alone.
On fansites, extreme reactions often tend to be more visible because mild reactions often aren't enough to motivate somebody to make an in-depth review or post. Dedicated AFOLs are also more discerning than casual fans. I don't mean that as a dig at casual fans, whose enjoyment is no less valid—merely that when somebody only builds the occasional set instead of having a vast collection, it takes less to impress them since they won't be comparing their experience with the set critically against as many other sets, making a set less likely to "fall short" of a perceived value expectation.
@AustinPowers said:
"I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it.
Sure, it has got cool functions, but the Trabant-like look is horrible and doesn't do the beautiful original any justice.
I really love the Creator Expert vehicle line, but the DB5 sticks out like a sore thumb. Totally overpriced as well. "
https://brickset.com/reviews/set-10262-1
I count 5 5/5s, 2 4/5s, and 1 3/5. Have you really not heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it? Or have you just chosen to ignore the positive things that non-paid reviewers have said?
@AustinPowers said:
"I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it."
I like it.
There, now you know a single person who has to say something positive about it ;-)
@LegoSonicBoy :
Creator Expert has never really been about "rebuildability". Creator 3-in-1 has, for sure, but there are no alternate models for the Winter Village sets, the Modulars, or the fairground sets. At least not that I'm aware of.
@AustinPowers:
He has access to two sources of data that you do not. He can see the sales numbers for any given set and compare them against each other, so if this set is selling significantly higher quantities than, say, the Mustang, then it proves that the set is more popular with the customers. And he can tap into the comments received through Consumer Affairs. If they get a few good comments, that's a welcome sign, since people are less likely to call just to praise a set. If they get a bunch of negative comments, that's possibly going to point to a flaw in the set design (as with Wall-E) or just indicate that people _really_ didn't like the set as much as they thought they would before building it.
@LegoSonicBoy said:
there's nothing "Creator" about these sets.
It's not about rebuilding the models. The creator line just focuses on the build experience and display value. the creator tag comes from the extra effort put in the build experience and the more advanced technique's used in the models.
@brickmaster1212:
You described the Creator Expert line more than the general Creator line. Creator itself tends to be fairly basic builds with minimal use of techniques. 30542 is Creator. There's not much build experience with a set that small, and I doubt it features more than fairly basic techniques.
@omnium said:
" @AustinPowers said:
"I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it."
I like it.
There, now you know a single person who has to say something positive about it ;-)"
Thank you. That is number one then.
Perhaps I live in a bubble, but every collector of Creator Expert vehicles I know hates the DB5, seriously, hates it. The combination of ludicrous RRP with all its faults makes it hard to like, especially after the excellent Mustang that came before. (or the Fiat 500 that came after. And even though that has the horrid look of "fifty shades of bright light yellow", at least it's an excellent build and far better value for money, colour inconsistencies notwithstanding).
@AustinPowers said:
" @omnium said:
" @AustinPowers said:
"I wonder who told him the "DB5 was well received". By whom? I haven't heard a single person outside of paid reviewers say much positive stuff about it."
I like it.
There, now you know a single person who has to say something positive about it ;-)"
Thank you. That is number one then.
Perhaps I live in a bubble, but every collector of Creator Expert vehicles I know hates the DB5, seriously, hates it. The combination of ludicrous RRP with all its faults makes it hard to like, especially after the excellent Mustang that came before. (or the Fiat 500 that came after. And even though that has the horrid look of "fifty shades of bright light yellow", at least it's an excellent build and far better value for money, colour inconsistencies notwithstanding). "
It's not a tough bubble to escape https://brickset.com/reviews/set-10262-1
Probably, but I doesn't take away from what I have experienced.
Don't get me wrong by the way, I am in no way trying to belittle Mike's efforts. Sone of my very favorite sets were designed by him and I truly admire his talent.
But the fact remains that the DB5 is not his crowning achievement. The problem is that of all the Creator Expert vehicles so far, this was the one that lent itself the least to the LEGO treatment. Those gorgeous lines and curves are just impossible to do justice with bricks at that scale.
@AustinPowers
Just wanted to point out that the Mustang came out after the DB5.
As for the interview, definitely one of the best I've read. Thanks to Mike and the Brickset team for making it happen.
I love the DB5.
Also, hope Mike’s comments about 18+ clear up all the confusion a lot of people here seem to have about that branding. Although I know it won’t.
Sadly my worst fear came true. The front windshield is badly scratched, the side windows a little less. Even after cleaning the tire smudging it still looks bad. This new softer material for transparent parts is just crap to be honest. I will have to take it up with CS...again. :(
https://brickshelf.com/gallery/R0Sch/10274/img_20201124_191705950.jpg
https://brickshelf.com/gallery/R0Sch/10274/img_20201124_191913224.jpg
@chrisaw:
Maybe people would find the black boxes less abrasive if they did a halo effect around the models. Even though it's only partial, the green/blue halo behind Ecto-1 really does help make the model pop against that smothering black bankground. I suspect in this case it was only done to provide a background color that you could see through the transparent parts. The 1989 Batwing also has one, but it only shows off the inner edges of the wing, and the outer edges are only clearly defined by white light reflecting off the parts that run along the outside edge. It helps somewhat, but you basically lose the silhouette of the ears entirely, and the outside edges of the wings are too poorly defined to register properly in your peripheral vision if you're looking at the center of the model. Then the Crocodile Locomotive only has a really dim haze behind it, which does help the model stand out against the black, but somehow makes the whole thing look even darker anyways.
Imagine if 10262 came with minifigures.....
@Slithus_Venom:
James Bond is one of the easiest movie characters to MOC, since he almost always wears a black suit or tux. It's the gun that's tricky. There is a tiny SW blaster (DC-17) that would work as a purist solution, but Brickarms has made an actual Walther PPK w/ silencer.