Is there a more hypocritical company than Lego?

I'm genuinely surprised they gave that specific a reason! Beats the usual cagey corporate speak.

:D :D :D

Good - now can the set completely please and thankyou.

Unsurprising. But it's more likely they're waiting to see how successful the game is before they commit to a Blizzard partnership.

I don't dare think how much money they threw away on Lego. Between non-compliant products and sets retired a few days before launch, they could safely avoid raising prices.

I’m glad that Lego take these issues seriously.

The Activition-Blizzard thing is known for months, even before the initial reveal... What is the point of announcing things to just cancel/postpone them (also kinda refering to the Marvel mechs), couldn't they see this coming earlier? Overwatch 2's release is also up in the air.

I'm on board with the cancellation if Lego decides not to partner with a company that is horrendous.

Good.

Great sets, great minifigs... all of this ruined.

I'm extremely sad for this, that's it.

This is a nice surprise—I had worried that corporate inertia alone if nothing else had forced them to follow through on the release. A pause and reevaluation may not be an outright cancellation, but it still feels like a decent choice—the issues at Activision Blizzard are serious but the situation is also very much in flux, and if the employees pushing for reform and a change in management manage to win out against the odds, then it wouldn't hurt for Lego to have sat on a decision instead of burning that bridge altogether.

There are obviously caveats to my enthusiasm. A pause like this not as risky a moral stance to take than if it had been a bigger, more broadly successful theme that had been the center of controversy (as evidenced by the continued extension of the Harry Potter theme, among others). And while the issues may not necessarily be as broad and systemic as they are at Activision Blizzard, I know at least one Lego designer who has been guilty of taking advantage of female fans and yet has so far avoided consequences. But even if Lego isn't entirely consistent on their stated principles, it's still appreciated when they do act on them.

LEGO Exec: We need to pause that Overwatch set.
LEGO Marketing: We are going to get some heat on this.
LEGO Exec: Can’t we distract them with something else?
LEGO Marketing: Well, we do have all those leftover coins...

Why now? All this blizzard stuff happened way back in the summer of last year.

I’m glad to see LEGO taking a step back for a moment. I don’t think the announcement was intended to come across as tone-deaf or sweeping Actvision’s recent behaviors under the rug, but it was likely a case of horrific timing. I don’t want the set to be cancelled entirely despite my feelings towards the whole ordeal. I want for those who want the set to be able to enjoy it, but maybe this delay will make it easier to enjoy said set. Hopefully Activision will improve by then.

Also, it’s nice to see LEGO not beat around the bush with why they’re delaying the set. It’s oddly refreshing to see a company not dance around an issue.

@someguy827 said:
"Why now? All this blizzard stuff happened way back in the summer of last year."

It seems like new stuff just kept constantly cropping up in regards to this topic. Week after week after that summer was just horror story after horror story. It’s pretty bad.

Yet another Osprey situation. Definitely more deserved than the Osprey but this is quite frankly ridiculous.

@graymattr said:
"I'm on board with the cancellation if Lego decides not to partner with a company that is horrendous."

Might as well cancel all licensed sets, all major corporations are terrible in one way or another.

@vzarmo said:
"But making sets for the chinese market is completely fine.

Ok Lego. "

So doing business in a country = supporting their government? Does doing business in the USA means that Lego endorses their President like Donald Trump and their policies?

@MLF said:
" @graymattr said:
"I'm on board with the cancellation if Lego decides not to partner with a company that is horrendous."

Might as well cancel all licensed sets, all major corporations are terrible in one way or another. "

The allegations about what's been going on at Activision go WAY further than usual scummy corporation stuff.

I'm going to get ahead of people who are gonna claim that Activision isn't worse than any other company and point out that most other companies don't have state and federal governments suing them based entirely on their behavior and treatment of employees:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Fair_Employment_and_Housing_v._Activision_Blizzard

Activisions biggest partners Microsoft and Sony are also considering dropping them if they don't show major improvement. It's not surprising LEGO would consider canning this set. (There's also the other reason its promoting a game that might not see release until 2023 at the earliest, so there's a timing mismatch in releasing this early...)

Honestly I probably would have gotten this on bricklink or something when it released ahah, I am not a fan of the games but I like the design a lot, I just feel really uncomfortable giving money to Activision rn.

Gonna drop this link in here too, a strike fund organized by the workers at Activision trying to make a change in the culture, if you want to support the workers there. https://www.gofundme.com/f/abk-strike-fund

@vzarmo said:
"But making sets for the chinese market is completely fine.

Ok Lego. "

Yes, it is, because a population isn't automatically responsible for the crimes of its government. Plus, we're talking about a country with more than a billion people in it; that's a market that many businesses can't ignore, for better or worse. In any case there's nothing especially problematic in LEGO's China-inspired products, and decrying them purely because they're Chinese-focussed was always going to be a weak argument.

Arguing against the production of sets for a specific country is a pretty easy way to slip into racist and xenophobic arguments. Maybe you should think about what you're saying a little more.

@Matt_Saderson said:
"Is there a more hypocritical company than Lego?"

Could you expand on this please. It could easily be viewed as you stating LEGO are known for issues relating to workplace culture and harassment of female employees which I certainly haven't heard.

@vzarmo said:
"But making sets for the chinese market is completely fine.

Ok Lego. "

I’m Chinese. I adore Lego, and am glad to see the product really take off in China in the last 10 years. The CNY and Monkie Kid lines have been a welcome surprise and yeah, while they are clearly designed to milk a specific market, I feel that many Chinese/Asian fans appreciate the cultural inclusivity.

Activision Blizzard is an ongoing trash fire with major issues being raised to this day.

Yeah.

I just hope nothing happens to the rumored Horizon Zero Dawn tallneck, probably my most anticipated set so far for the year

@Goujon said:
"Yet another Osprey situation. Definitely more deserved than the Osprey but this is quite frankly ridiculous. "

The Osprey was canned because it chewed up its gears.

@Mister_Jonny said:
"Yes, it is, because a population isn't automatically responsible for the crimes of its government. Plus, we're talking about a country with more than a billion people in it; that's a market that many businesses can't ignore, for better or worse. In any case there's nothing especially problematic in LEGO's China-inspired products, and decrying them purely because they're Chinese-focussed was always going to be a weak argument.

Arguing against the production of sets for a specific country is a pretty easy way to slip into racist and xenophobic arguments. Maybe you should think about what you're saying a little more."

Yep the comparison of Overwatch with Chinese/Lunar New Year is damn ridiculous and ignorant. The latter is a tradition which has been celebrated for over a thousand years, and is not just celebrated in mainland China, but also HK, Taiwan, Singapore, and the wider overseas Chinese community. Even Lego found out the hard way in 2019 that there's also a market for CNY sets outside of Asia.

Cancel culture at its finest.

and nothing of value has been lost.

@Bosstone100 said:
"Cancel culture at its finest."

I feel like this is much more in line with the consequences of actions, not just things being canned because someone's feelings were hurt

@Bosstone100 said:
"Cancel culture at its finest."

Couldn’t agree more. They probably won’t approve a Cosby show Ideas set either. And at this rate I’ll never get those Roman Polanski, Woody Allen and Harvey Weinstein figs I want so bad.

People like you and me just can’t win in this world.

@Matt_Saderson said:
"Is there a more hypocritical company than Lego?"

A lot. Have you heard of, say, Exxon Mobil?

@AHYL88 said:
"Ooh boy, ignorance at its finest with some of the comments in this. Those of you who are throwing a fit over this being cancelled, saying stuff like "every corporation is bad" "it happened ages ago" and so on, just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't give you an excuse to be all entitled and basically ungratefully selfish. It makes you even worse that you're effectively supporting a company that's this publicly under fire and has been doing this stuff for years and getting away with it . Why else would Microsoft and Sony and sponsors for the esports tournaments be steering clear away from Activision Blizzard?

Activision Blizzard has been absolutely terrible for the last few years with the staff mistreatment, the sexual harassment, a boss that constantly pockets undeserved bonuses the himself while laying off lots of staff. It's so bad that treasuries and government states stepped in to investigate which is unheard of before. "

Yeah seriously. The Activision Blizzard stuff is godawful. Lego should absolutely be severing their partnership with them. Abuse is going to happen at any company of that size, but it's well documented that Blizzard has been home to an extremely toxic culture. One of the main guys there had a room they called the "Bill Cosby Room" when they went to conventions. Employees who were breastfeeding would find their breast milk from pumping during the day stolen from the work fridge. There's more out there but that's the type of stuff that was pervasive in the company.

@TomKazutara said:
"I had an though ;

if Lego really and deeply care about human rights, how come they are still teaming up with Disney ?
A company who filmed willingly in a region near a chinese labor camp and even gave a shout out to them at the end credits ?
Why is that ? "

because no one is talking about that and companies only care about ethical issues if they're being talked about. companies don't have moral compasses, they only care about money, and pretending like they care about the abuse at Activision/Blizzard is a good way to appease their paying customers.

Disney is horribly abusive to its staff too, so many horror stories out of the Disney Parks that Lego makes beautiful and very expensive models of, but that's not in the headlines so it's fine.

And let's not even talk about what the labour conditions in Lego's Chinese factories are, I'm going to guess they're standard for China which means they're very overworked and underpaid, and of course Lego only opened plants in China so they could take advantage of cheaper labour with less worker protections than elsewhere, to expand their own profits at the expense of the people who actually make the product.

Funny to see this happen this late, almost as if the only reason they're stopping is because of the initial outrage.
Meanwhile they announced a week ago they're expanding their factory in China.

@Matt_Saderson said:
"Is there a more hypocritical company than Lego?"

Yes. Lots, in fact.

I find a lot of these comments really disappointing. Yes, lots of corporations are bad. Does that mean nothing should ever be done? You can’t fix everything so therefore you shouldn’t fix anything?

Lego standing up against this sets a great precedent, both for the company itself and many others. What Activision has been doing is absolutely disgusting and I’m very glad Lego are publicly condemning that (even if there are other more nebulous reasons behind the scenes).

It might be virtual signalling, but that’s a hell of a lot better than the things people are signalling in some of these comments

So many people in this thread would rather have *more* plastic toys to gather dust on their shelves than even make the *barest* effort to not support a company with a horrific record of abuse against women.

@TomKazutara said:
"I had an though ;

if Lego really and deeply care about human rights, how come they are still teaming up with Disney ?
A company who filmed willingly in a region near a chinese labor camp and even gave a shout out to them at the end credits ?
Why is that ? "

That’s a fair question, but I think there’s a reasonable answer / distinction (beyond the obvious “Disney stuff is so much more popular that we’d really be killing our profits”). From what’s been coming out about Activision / Blizzard, their abusive, toxic corporate culture permeates pretty much everything there. Disney has problems (as is inevitable with any institution with as many human beings as it has in its ranks), but its overall corporate culture isn’t as defined by toxicity and abuses (or at least, not yet known to be) they way Activision / Blizzard apparently is. The company is the same mix of good and bad and all that most human institutions are, whereas ActiBlizz appears to be pretty much completely rotten through and through.

Good

I work in the toy industry… I’m surprised they can halt deliveries on an item like this, so close to the ship date. …Seems to me they didn’t have a great deal on buy-in from retailers on this, so figured it might be an opportunity to take a stance on whatever issue Blizzard is going through at the moment. …Honestly, Blizzard probably doesn’t care much at all for this partnership, as a royalty from a LEGO sale is next to nothing compared to the Billions Blizard makes on the games themselves. …I work on a game property and have a similar experience.

@TomKazutara said:
"I had an though ;

if Lego really and deeply care about human rights, how come they are still teaming up with Disney ?
A company who filmed willingly in a region near a chinese labor camp and even gave a shout out to them at the end credits ?
Why is that ? "

Complete whataboutism, and you have no idea what you're on about. Disney filmed the live action remake of Mulan near a stretch of desert in a region that's nearly the size of the US west coast. And acknowledging the local government is a standard practice of filmmaking, it does not equate to endorsing their policies. Tell me, does making a film in Texas or Arizona equate to endorsing the equally atrocious ICE camps there?

In contrast, Activision management was DIRECTLY involved in the abuses, with managers being fired due to the fallout and California's government investigating them over the abuses. Even their CEO was recorded threatening someone over the phone.

@dougts said:
""We have no problem partnering with a totalitarian regime who hold tens of thousands of people in concentration camps, conducts forced sterilizations, and suppresses it's own people by the tens of millions. But hey, we will cancel any company who has internal culture issues""

Point out to me where Lego directly worked with the Chinese government. And yet you live in the USA, the country with the most people incarcerated per capita, and speaking of concentration camps with forced sterilizations, look at your own backyard first.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/22/ice-gynecologist-hysterectomies-georgia

I guess Lego is evil for daring to do any business in the USA because of it, right?

@Bmuralles said:
"I'm sure if the changed the colours from white to rainbows it'd launch pretty quickly"

Oh dear, did you step on some awesome colorful bricks this morning?

The whataboutism with doing business in China and claiming it hypocrisy is so bizarre here - what is the actual argument you all are making? Do you actually care about LEGO doing business in the country? Why only on this issue is it suddenly a problem? What do you want them to do about it? Are you going to boycott LEGO until they meet your demands?

Are you just upset that they are "virtue signaling" by taking a (correct) moral stance on doing business with ABK?

@Thunbear said:
"and nothing of value has been lost."

I don’t want to sound like i am in favour of blizzard, it’s just the Osprey situation again. Lego shows us this amazing thing and then snatched it away from us at the last second. Only this time, it’s justified. As much as I want this set and more overwatch, we simply cannot put plastic bricks over humans. That’s not what the Lego community is about.

@Pekingduckman said:
" @dougts said:
""We have no problem partnering with a totalitarian regime who hold tens of thousands of people in concentration camps, conducts forced sterilizations, and suppresses it's own people by the tens of millions. But hey, we will cancel any company who has internal culture issues""

Point out to me where Lego directly worked with the Chinese government. And yet you live in the USA, the country with the most people incarcerated per capita, and speaking of concentration camps with forced sterilizations, look at your own backyard first.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/22/ice-gynecologist-hysterectomies-georgia

I guess Lego is evil for daring to do any business in the USA because of it, right?"

they manufacturer and sell in China. you cannot do either without approval and partnership with the Chinese government

LEGO doesn't contract with and follow the policies of the US government. the US is a mostly free market economy. very different.

its called pointing out hypocrisy. picking and choosing when to be morally outraged because it suits your PR and/or bottom line is hypocrisy. and it deservers to be called as such

" @Pekingduckman said:
... and you have no idea what you're on about. "

I think this comment sums up a lot of posts in this thread. I suspect that a lot of those posters, if they had worked for Activision Blizzard, would be defending their employers using the word 'banter'.

@Pekingduckman said:
" @vzarmo said:
"But making sets for the chinese market is completely fine.

Ok Lego. "

So doing business in a country = supporting their government?"

No, doing business in communist China means supporting the Chinese government. When you operate in a dictatorship, you keep the dictator placated or you lose your investment. There are no laws to fall back on.

It is highly disingenuous to draw some kind of equivalence between operating in a free country and in one becoming more totalitarian by the minute. The former has a public/private sphere. The latter has only the outward illusion of one.

Call it whataboutism, but it is still a valid criticism to point out the hypocrisy of Lego caring about one business partner but not another who both did terrible things. All because of $$$. And spoiler alert: the one who did way worse human rights abuses is still their partner because it rakes in much more money.

And as some posters as pointed out, the comparison between the two is also valid because while one is a company and other a government, they both have a relationship of a business partner with Lego. Unlike the USA, you can't do business in China without their goverment overseeing and approving your every business decision.

Does that mean Star Wars is also canceled? :D

I'm having a hard time to understand this 'Chinese government is evil so we shouldn't sell LEGO bricks there' logic. Is human right improved by stop selling LEGOs to Chinese kids and adult fans? Aren't such proposal actually punishing ordinary people?

@dougts said:
"they manufacturer and sell in China. you cannot do either without approval and partnership with the Chinese government"

Do you even know how international businesses and capitalism work? Do you think any corporation can just open shop in the US or any other Western country and not abide by their laws?

@AllenSmith said:

"No, doing business in communist China means supporting the Chinese government. When you operate in a dictatorship, you keep the dictator placated or you lose your investment. There are no laws to fall back on.

It is highly disingenuous to draw some kind of equivalence between operating in a free country and in one becoming more totalitarian by the minute. The former has a public/private sphere. The latter has only the outward illusion of one."

Wow the galls of you trying to talk down to an ethnic Chinese who spent years living there. Reading some articles on CNN or Fox doesn't make you an expert on China. Do you actually think the Chinese do nothing in their spare times other than be "oppressed", even though growing amounts of Chinese families are well off middle classes which spend their money on international brands like Lego? In fact, it's actually easier to open businesses or even a stall in China or any other third world country than it is in the USA, precisely because of the lack of many bureaucracy present in developed countries.

You can cry about "human rights" all you want, it is you who are being hypocritical in ignoring that capitalism itself thrives on inequality and exploitation. Do you think the USA got all of its wealth through hard work, rather than theft?

This is the worst comment section on this entire site.

It's been a while since I've seen a comment thread with such a display of smooth brained, ignorant, knee-jerk, manchild false equivalences linked together by such torturous logical fallacies . It's good to have a reality check once in a while I suppose, but it's left me rather despondent about some of the people who consider themselves 'AFOLs'.

@andthenwhat said:
"Call it whataboutism, but it is still a valid criticism to point out the hypocrisy of Lego caring about one business partner but not another who both did terrible things. All because of $$$. And spoiler alert: the one who did way worse human rights abuses is still their partner because it rakes in much more money.

And as some posters as pointed out, the comparison between the two is also valid because while one is a company and other a government, they both have a relationship of a business partner with Lego. Unlike the USA, you can't do business in China without their goverment overseeing and approving your every business decision."

And you think anyone can open a business in the USA without abiding by their employment or environmental laws? And it's laughable that you demand morality only when it comes to doing business with China, and single them out for human rights abuses the US and plenty of European countries are equally guilty of. What do you think capitalism is, sunshine and roses? Nope, it thrives on exploitation and inequality, and plenty of democratic countries have sweatshops and poorly paid workers as well.

I don't really understand the perspective of the more cynical comments every time something slightly controversial with Lego happens. Telling people that companies don't care about people's feelings and that their main priority is to make money and look good, isn't in anyway a a shock to someone with more progressive beliefs, let alone the average person. It's actually the exact type of stuff most young people critical of capitalism struggle with everyday. Plenty of the comments on "Everyone is Awesome" were LGBT+ people expressing frustrations with rainbowwashing and the Harry Potter license.

Is that the point? Are you guys out here to criticize capitalism and way it compromises society's morals? On a site dedicated to adults buying a luxury toy product??? Or are you just trying to make yourself feel better by dunking on anything you perceive as vaguely progressive?

Either way, mentioning 'cancel culture' just comes across extremely ignorant. This isn't the twitter campaign of one angry fan. Activision-Blizzard is being sued by the largest state in the country for their abuse. One employee was abused so badly she committed suicide. This is a no brainer for Lego. Do they benefit from it being nowhere as complicated as the Chinese market or dropping Harry Potter? Sure, but I can't fault this choice, unless they go back on it.

Seems some people here want to deny 1.5 billion people of a certain country/ethnicity (including overseas) the LEGO hobby.

@Bri3k_b01 said:
"This is the worst comment section on this entire site."

Oh trust me, whilst this one's pretty naff there's definitely been some much worse ones in the past before Huw & Co (cheers Team Brickset, doin' good work!) took a more active approach towards moderating comments - the Trafalgar Square review and its single 1x1 rainbow tile comes to mind...

@Pekingduckman said:
" @andthenwhat said:
"Call it whataboutism, but it is still a valid criticism to point out the hypocrisy of Lego caring about one business partner but not another who both did terrible things. All because of $$$. And spoiler alert: the one who did way worse human rights abuses is still their partner because it rakes in much more money.

And as some posters as pointed out, the comparison between the two is also valid because while one is a company and other a government, they both have a relationship of a business partner with Lego. Unlike the USA, you can't do business in China without their goverment overseeing and approving your every business decision."

And you think anyone can open a business in the USA without abiding by their employment or environmental laws? And it's laughable that you demand morality only when it comes to doing business with China, and single them out for human rights abuses the US and plenty of European countries are equally guilty of. What do you think capitalism is, sunshine and roses? Nope, it thrives on exploitation and inequality, and plenty of democratic countries have sweatshops and poorly paid workers as well."

No western country requires that you let the goverment own a % of your company if you want to do business in it. And there is no more brutally capitalist country than China.

@Ayliffe said:
" @Bri3k_b01 said:
"This is the worst comment section on this entire site."

Oh trust me, whilst this one's pretty naff there's definitely been some much worse ones in the past before Huw & Co (cheers Team Brickset, doin' good work!) took a more active approach towards moderating comments - the Trafalgar Square review and its single 1x1 rainbow tile comes to mind..."

> Many commenters have different views than me therefore this is the worst comment section on the site

@vzarmo said:
"But making sets for the chinese market is completely fine.

Ok Lego. "

Good ol' casual xenophobia in the Brickset comments.

Also kinda sad how many people thumbed that as if to agree with such a stupid, surface level argument. Since when does a country equal its leaders and not the 1 billion+ people in it?

@andthenwhat said:
"No western country requires that you let the goverment own a % of your company if you want to do business in it. And there is no more brutally capitalist country than China."

Lots of countries have protectionist economic policies because they don't want multinational corporations buying off their industries, like France which limits the amount of Hollywood movies that can be shown in the country. But it's only a problem when China does it, right? You need to brush up on your reading material, because China never couped another country because their leaders dared to nationalize their own industries, unlike what the US did to Guatemala and Iran in the 50s.

When did it become okay to be openly racist and xenophobic about the Chinese? Was there like a memo or something that I missed?

@MisterBrickster said:
"When did it become okay to be openly racist and xenophobic about the Chinese? Was there like a memo or something that I missed?"

Criticizing the Chinese government over its very real human rights abuses is not racist or xenophobic. Neither is wondering why supposed "moral" corporations dive head first into bed with the CCP.

The 5 people who were going to buy this must be disappointed…

Good on Lego for taking a stance.

@MLF said:
" @MisterBrickster said:
"When did it become okay to be openly racist and xenophobic about the Chinese? Was there like a memo or something that I missed?"

Criticizing the Chinese government over its very real human rights abuses is not racist or xenophobic. Neither is wondering why supposed "moral" corporations dive head first into bed with the CCP."

I don't think Lego are collaborating directly with the CCP to make sets based on lifelong traditions of the people?

@CopperTablet said:
"Working with JK Rowling is way worse than Activision Blizzard, which is a shit company filled with sexual predators but lots of American/European companies are (there's probably at least one at TLG tbh) and they're at least trying to change. Rowling is unrepentant and doubles down on bigotry when challenged."

There’s no words for how ignorant and ridiculous your comment is. But I’m not here to start another argument on his article page.

@MLF said:
" @MisterBrickster said:
"When did it become okay to be openly racist and xenophobic about the Chinese? Was there like a memo or something that I missed?"

Criticizing the Chinese government over its very real human rights abuses is not racist or xenophobic. Neither is wondering why supposed "moral" corporations dive head first into bed with the CCP."

On the one hand claiming that 'Criticizing the Chinese government over its very real human rights abuses is not racist or xenophobic.', on the other hand pressuring an international brand like LEGO to stop selling toys to ordinary Chinese people. Yep, I see absolutely zero problem here.

@MLF said:
" @MisterBrickster said:
"When did it become okay to be openly racist and xenophobic about the Chinese? Was there like a memo or something that I missed?"

Criticizing the Chinese government over its very real human rights abuses is not racist or xenophobic. Neither is wondering why supposed "moral" corporations dive head first into bed with the CCP."

If you can't see a distinction between a government and a culture you're exactly who I'm talking about.

So kids, what did we learn today?

- My desire for a kids’ toy is more important than rampant worker abuse and harassment
- All companies are bad so let’s just sit back and do nothing
- Blame everything on cancel culture when the thing in question absolutely deserves to be cancelled (and fined and some ppl jailed)
- Just make money; stop virtue signalling (I just reallllllllly want this set, ok?!)
- China = government not its people
- Overwatch = CNY sets

How disgusting.

It’s quite something when you see the comments for the same topic on a video game site are more considered and level-headed than the nonsense witnessed in this comment thread.

I thought AFOLs were a largely friendly and intelligent bunch.