@bobaphat107 said:
"I already have the big sets I want, and I don't like the Landspeeder. So how in earthsname am I to qualify for the Lars' Family Homestead Kitchen (160 euro!!!!!!!)?????"

I'll get one and sell it to you on ebay for $16,000 haha

I hate that 75341 is excluded from double points but if I get the three promotions with it I'll still buy it.

It is admittedly pretty scummy but also fairly standard policy across most industries anymore unfortunately.

75342 Republic Fighter Tank is on the list thankfully. That is the only one that I will pick up on the list... Man, sometimes their policies are odd to say the least.

Beru! Check that off the missing minifig list. But for me, the Beskar might be the highlight of the GWP's.

That's going to be an expensive weekend.

I can't get the speeder currently, so I guess I'll just be getting the keychain, maybe with Boba's Palace.

Is the keychain metal?

I can see the pre-order not being included, but the others are weird

I assume these are only available with Star Wars purchases? Doesn't hurt to double check.

Not nearly as good a GWP as the Vintage Car, Sailboat, Amelia Earhart Tribute or even the Adidas Superstar minifigure set.

“What do you want to do, Beru?”

@AgentKallus said:
" @Bricky_Dee_Williams said:

"So the UCS R2, UCS Gunship, UCS Falcon, UCS AT-AT, UCS Landspeeder, MBS Cantina, 3 quote sets, Republic Fighter Tank, and the N1 pre-order are all excluded? "

The republic tank is included but boba's place isn't
"
A Boba’s place is his palace.

@merlinh said:
"Well, dang. Other websites showed (predicted) the Blue Milk Luke free with $80 purchase. I was really hoping to get that Luke without feeding the scalpers online. "

Without feeding the scalpers? You wanted the figure free with an $80 spend?

I got the figure free, with an £80 spend. I bought the game version that it came FREE with!

SMDH

@lost_scotsman said:
" @Cooliocdawg said:
"That kitchen is beautiful!!! I love the 60s sci-if vibes. And it’s cool to finally see Beru. I still want a Lars Homestead set though."

Wonder if we'll get one courtesy of the Kenobi series?"

I’m here for it if we do!

As I feared the awful diorama/vignette sets have displace the nice May the 4th series that was building up.

That AT-ST is ugly

Looks like the ISD is also excluded from the Double VIP. That's a giant steaming pile of poo that they're being restrictive about Double VIP. I've never noticed them excluding UCS sets from Double VIP offers before. Have I just missed it?

The double points not being on all in stock Star Wars sets is not cool, but what is it an extra 5%? I can get 20% off them in other stores. At least we can get the "freebies" on any Star Wars set, and not just one set that may be in stock for an hour at most like the lightsabers.

Love the kitchen and the keychain, not sure if it’s enough to convince me to buy dioramas at MSRP though..

@Hermdefermdeherger said:
"Yo it’s mrs weasley"

Are you sure? Eyebrows look brown not red in this picture. But I’m not certain. I hate when they re-use character face prints. So much HP/SW double dipping. Just cheap.

I’ve figured out my point in Star Wars comments sections isn’t to say what I love about a set and whether I’ll buy it but to compare it to the Skywalker Saga game. While I’m sure you can go to the Lars’ kitchen in the open-world, old Aunt Beru doesn’t appear in any cutscenes or possibly even the game entirely.

I was tempted to finally go for the Cantina but if it's excluded from the promos I guess I'm done with Star Wars. Whatever smaller sets are included I already have. Also already have the Polybag so that's not one I need a second of. Looks like the Cantina is just excluded from Double points. Might be worth cashing some in for a discount.

What the actual **** ? lol what a slap in the face cmon Lego

Why did I made that dumb investment with my money, now I will continue to suffer for it.

Maybe I will have to get the Landspeeder after all, just for Beru. Not sure my wallets happy about that.

So Lego finally makes an Aunt Beru minifigure after 23 years, and everyone upset they don't get Blue Milk Luke? Why?

I can't believe more people aren't pumped they finally made her a fig. Now all we need is Shmi Skywalker! (and a few select others, but these two have been notable missing figs)

@Bricky_Dee_Williams said:
" @hardwax said:
"VIP double points offer applies to selected LEGO® Star Wars™ sets only (75268, 75297, 40557, 40558, 75266, 75295, 75298, 75307, 75320, 75321, 75269, 75270, 75271, 75281, 75283, 75299, 75310, 75342, 40391, 40431, 75249, 75254, 75300, 75311, 75319, 75324, 75251, 75257, 75272, 75284, 75286, 75291, 75293, 75301, 75302, 75312, 75314, 75316, 40539, 75255, 75278, 75288, 75292, 75315, 75317, 75318). Not the Landspeeder."

So the UCS R2, UCS Gunship, UCS Falcon, UCS AT-AT, UCS Landspeeder, MBS Cantina, 3 quote sets, Republic Fighter Tank, and the N1 pre-order are all excluded? "

Jabba’s Palace too it’s almost like they’re trying to make it so we can’t get VIP points on new or expensive stuff.

@PurpleDave That Han minifig looks cool except why such a goofy expression? I’d buy one but I assume his head isn’t double-printed with a more neutral face on the other side.

I was gonna get the UCS AT-AT but it's not double points for some reason, oh well, guess i'll save my money.

What is with that AT-ST polybag and a keychain featuring a piece of lumber with a silver stain? I mean, that keychain has nothing Lego about it.

I understand the $160 threshold. Inflation has been 8% over the past year, yet Lego sets from last year, or the year before, have retained their original MSRP, which effectively means they are discounted already. But why not eliminate the two worthless gifts and lower the threshold to $100? Just because I can afford $160 doesn’t mean that everyone else can.

What I’m really pissed about however is that I’ve been waiting for this promotion to buy Moff Gideon’s Lightcruiser, and I’m going to come up a penny short. No doubt these dollar amounts are intentional.

This can be found on the lego website

VIP double points offer applies to selected LEGO® Star Wars™ sets only (75268, 75297, 40557, 40558, 75266, 75295, 75298, 75307, 75320, 75321, 75269, 75270, 75271, 75281, 75283, 75299, 75310, 75342, 40391, 40431, 75249, 75254, 75300, 75311, 75319, 75324, 75251, 75257, 75272, 75284, 75286, 75291, 75293, 75301, 75302, 75312, 75314, 75316, 40539, 75255, 75278, 75288, 75292, 75315, 75317, 75318).

The list seems extensive until you research the set numbers for example the first set number 75268 relates to a RETIRED product!! WTG Lego

@TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @BulbaNerd4000 said:
"I can see the pre-order not being included, but the others are weird"

Not really. People have every right to be frustrated, but I wouldn't call it weird (or scummy like another person mentioned) to not include certain sets in the double points. Those sets are going to be the most highly sought after. That means their stock will disappear quicker than the rest. Double points directly entices people to buy the sets they apply to. It's just a way to not run out of stock. Which would you rather have, the set for normal points or no set and no points?

Thousands of companies do the exact same thing, that is, excluding promotions and deals from new/super popular items. Better to do that than have a bunch of people mad that something is out of stock. It's not like LEGO VIP points serve any direct value to LEGO themselves. They're just there to get you to spend more money than you would have."

So what you’re saying is that Lego is doing this for our benefit, that it doesn’t want us to wind up disappointed ar finding these items sold out - THAT’s how much they care.

Stockholm Syndrome anyone?

PASS!

@TheBrickGuru24

Although "Thousands of companies do the exact same thing", I don't recall LEGO doing it before. The fact they are limiting the promotion to retired and EOL sets is disappointing (with one or two exceptions). Although your argument could be applied my comment--since many companies only have sales to get rid of old/excess inventory--"May the Fourth" celebration has generally been a sale to celebrate the Star Wars theme, not a way to get rid of excess inventory. People still get the gift with purchase(s), which could be argued that that is the promotion.

What "bothers" me with this move is the fate of future Double VIP events; LEGO generally has them 3-4 times a year. Will they start doing the same thing with all future events as well? IE, will all expensive/popular sets be permanently removed from these promotions?

One consideration as to why they did this: to slow scalpers, to some extent (IE getting $80 back and then reselling the MF2 vs. getting $40 back). I think this is unlikely though.

Wondering: if you buy the Landspeeder do you get all 3 GWP’s?

I like the kitchen, and it's refreshing to see minifigs with a minifig-scale build, but something is rubbing me the wrong way with the Aunt Beru figure. That being said, I still hope we will see more May the Fourth promos like this in the future.

Double points is a joke - on sets most of us would already have and excluding those we want (if not out of stock, which they often are). How does that make a great May 4th day?

I’m bummed the Cantina is excluded from double points, but I’ve pretty much been waiting for this to buy it - I just hope stock won’t sell out.

Makes no sense the keychain to be a Lego product. It could have been made by any other company or Disney itself.

Is that Maggie in the kitchen...

@ShinyBidoof said:
[[[[ @MisterBrickster said:

Like the decline of Rome! This really is taking "storm in a tea cup" to a new level.]]

It is a brilliant (and laughable) overreaction. It just needs the line:

"Won't somebody please just think of the children (and AFOLs)"

to make it perfect.
]]

Tip o' the cap. That is funny!

Yet, you surely miss the point. Lego has jumped the shark. They're fiddling while Rome burns. Anyone who has a passing interest in market forces should clearly be able to see that.

Outrageous retail prices, a plethora of expensive models in various new areas, sudden and horrible nosedive in customer service, a marked turn from their core customers (AFOLs and children), even more insane secondary market prices, global economic and security instability, and the sudden opening of world culture and travel (i.e., greater competition for leisure time and money)... it all leads to an inescapable conclusion. Lego currently occupies the top of a bubble.

The only real issue is how are they poised to weather a crash when bandwagon fans cease to care about Lego because football is back, the pubs are open, and the family wants to go to Spain on holiday- especially when everything is more expensive.

On top of this, Lego is investing heavily in the metaverse and far-flung new factories when the world is poised to recoil from globalism. Smells like a recipe for disaster to me. In fact, a lot of this is merely a repetition of the same mistakes they made last time they were in trouble. Family run companies can be like that. Let's hope someone has an idea for the new Bionicle!

I love all the new product and cool, adult-oriented designs. I just wish they remembered to treat their core constituency with a little more respect.

@CCC said:
" @StyleCounselor said:
" This has been going on for at least the last couple of years (especially since they ended the free set of the month for kids and monthly planning calendars). "

They probably realised that giving away the free monthly sets was not actually leading to more sales on those days, and often caused more issues for staff with complaints about availability and entitlement to free sets.
"

Yes, there was definitely some of that. But, they changed to a reservation system in the U.S. the last year it occurred in order to alleviate those issues and things reportedly worked well. I know I spent a ton of money on those days.

But, more importantly, it was a great way for Lego to build goodwill with parents and CHILDREN. Getting free toys. It felt like Christmas- especially for disadvantaged kids. That's the kind of thing that makes you swear allegiance to a brand.

BTW, I was at my local Costco today. They have marked down the remaining 75324 sets to $13 in store. Get 'em while they last!

@denn said:
"glad i held off on ordering some sets, no problem hitting the $160+ threshold for me. plus almost all of mine will get double points, too.

protip - always remember this will happen for May the Fourth, and save some SW sets to order later

(now if i can remember my own advice for next year!)"

That would be true for me... if they're in stock at lefo.com which is increasingly rare, but they aren't out of stock at the other major retailers so it's not like I can't get them, JUST NOT FROM tlg.

Shame on Lego for changing the Double VIP this year :/

@StyleCounselor:
“Outrageous retail prices” that are often pretty close to what they would have been in 1980? Or is it the ones that fall well below $0.10/pc that you’re upset about?

20 years ago, when they posted their two large losses, their color palette was out of control (at a time when they still sourced pre-colored plastic), they were making tons of new parts that were used in a single set from a theme that didn’t sell well, they basically eliminated the Technic brand from their portfolio, and they were producing Jack Stone sets.

These days, Technic is alive and well, and the most complex sets released under that brand have been in the last two decades. The color palette has a strict limit, and adding a new color means eliminating an existing color. Plastic comes uncolored, with the color being added during production, which eliminates the need to store thousands of hoppers of rare colors that might go years without seeing any use. Instead of making one mold that gets used once for a theme that barely sells, and another similar mold that gets used once for another theme that barely sells, they now have to go through an approval process for each new mold, and then the part has to be run through a design team that makes sure each part fits within the System, and is as reusable as possible by other themes.

And Jack Stone is gone. Its successor, the 4+ theme, is an entirely different beast. Based on the same minifigs as regular themes, it can transition right into those themes when age-appropriate. Often produced as a sub-theme to stuff like DC Superheroes, Star Wars, or City, it provides an entry point into those themes instead of being strictly stand-alone. Instead of using an almost entirely-exclusive range of chunky parts designed to eliminate the construction process as much as possible, it mostly sticks to larger standard elements, with only a few selected “starter” elements, most of which are designed to fit more seamlessly into an older kid’s collection.

They’re not fiddling while Rome is burning. They’re still building Rome. They went from being so niche in the 80’s and 90’s that they were still seeking relationships with locally-owned educational stores, to having sales in the US exceed that of any single nation with the launch of Star Wars in 1999, to becoming the largest toy company in the world with the debut of The LEGO Movie in 2014. They only lost that title because Mattel bought Mega Brands. They did all of this on the strength of a single product. That’s like having the top grocery store in the world when all you sell is bread. They’re still expanding their customer base. Sure, they may lose some pandemic buyers once the world returns to normal, but they’ll retain some as regular customers. They’re still increasing sales, and profits. And they have a looooooong way to fall before they have to worry about losing money. Or Rome burning.

@PurpleDave said:
" @StyleCounselor :
“Outrageous retail prices” that are often pretty close to what they would have been in 1980? Or is it the ones that fall well below $0.10/pc that you’re upset about?... And they have a looooooong way to fall before they have to worry about losing money. Or Rome burning."

Thank you for your in-depth Lego knowledge, per usual. However, little of what you relate addresses my material point. Surely no one believes that Lego can continue this growth even in an ideal world?

Yet, the world is far from ideal. Market and social factors that created the Lego boom are coming to an end. Other factors are coming to the fore that are in direct contradiction to continued growth. (See my comments above).

The big warning signal to me was seeing 75012 fetch over $400 on a thrift store auction site. It smells like rank speculation- just like real estate or stocks. (Boy, I should really sell some stuff).

I hope I'm wrong and Lego has a "loooong way". However, the thing about riches is that they disappear even faster than they arrive. Lego is gambling big on things that are contra to the current economic climate (Vietnam plant) and their core product (metaverse). These could easily punch large holes in that balance sheet.

I'm not a PPP nitpicker. My comment about prices has to do with how many big pricey sets there are, not their value. If I didn't think they were a good value, I wouldn't buy them. I do buy them. However, not everyone can.

An AFOL website recently published an article addressing this fact, and arguing that it was so dramatic that it is exclusionary to AFOLs. After all, not everyone can keep up with so many big sets. It takes a large disposable income.

@StyleCounselor said:

"Edit: Don't even get me started on how bad the telephone, chat, and email customer service has become! They used to be the BEST. Now, they are horrible. :(

Edit x2: I wish Lego was run by the dudes from Brickset!"

Your first point is the textbook definition of projection bias and also plain ignorance. I have had excellent customer service as recently as last month, and haven't needed customer service from that point on to the present day. And that's with them being overworked and low staffed for many months now, which you seemed to completely forget about.

And I surely hope you're not serious about that. Like it or not, the people that run the marketing part of the company are in those jobs because they have degrees for those jobs, meaning they are more qualified than everyone here at it who doesn't have a marketing degree, and acting like any one of us could do a better job because they wouldn't piss off customers is, well, it's ridiculous. Not only is it impossible to make everyone happy, we all have such a ground level knowledge of what exactly is going on that assuming we could do better without having any info on the other 90% of the situation would be like assuming you could fix a toilet or something when you only know how to plunge it.

Not to mention, and I'm putting this bluntly, you guys would kill pretty much the entire CFOL, TFOL and YAFOL fandom. I couldn't care less about BTS, but that set is going to sell like hotcakes. Yet most comments on here when it were announced were along the lines of "Why is this necessary, there were much better options." Honestly, I absolutely relish the moments where I know the comments on announcements are actually going to be positive, and not filled with "old man shouting at clouds" nonsense, because that's what it's like most of the time, and I know from talking to people outside this site that there are many of us (most of them younger than the average age here, myself included) who are absolutely sick of it. That is a horrific idea in all of its entirety.

@Vindic8ed said:
" @TheBrickGuru24

Although "Thousands of companies do the exact same thing", I don't recall LEGO doing it before. The fact they are limiting the promotion to retired and EOL sets is disappointing (with one or two exceptions). Although your argument could be applied my comment--since many companies only have sales to get rid of old/excess inventory--"May the Fourth" celebration has generally been a sale to celebrate the Star Wars theme, not a way to get rid of excess inventory. People still get the gift with purchase(s), which could be argued that that is the promotion.

What "bothers" me with this move is the fate of future Double VIP events; LEGO generally has them 3-4 times a year. Will they start doing the same thing with all future events as well? IE, will all expensive/popular sets be permanently removed from these promotions?

One consideration as to why they did this: to slow scalpers, to some extent (IE getting $80 back and then reselling the MF2 vs. getting $40 back). I think this is unlikely though."

LEGO has definitely done this before. It's just been on a select few sets, usually big, brand new ones.

It's not just to clear inventory either, although I'm sure they want to with most of the sets that will be double VIP points retiring. This is a big event, probably LEGO's biggest of the year, and with limited inventory, like has been the case for the last, what, three years now?, lowering the amount of purchases of popular sets makes nothing but sense. Do you think they want to do that by the way? Literally lower their sales? Of course not. It's a necessary evil in order to hopefully have the desired affect of people still getting what they want but also getting what they want and coming out on top in the end, just like when they put a buy limit on sets or put things on sale (or when anyone does that for that matter). You can't expect a business to only care about making money via straight up sales and be expected to be taken seriously. It is clearly much more complicated and layered than that.

And I promise you that LEGO could not care less about scalpers. They may set a low limit for stock purposes or to accommodate the community's request to do so when they bring scalpers up, but they do not care. They're getting the money all the same.

@StyleCounselor:
The first thing to remember is you don’t need to see continuous growth to stay in business. You can have growth trail off and even shrink but still maintain profitability. You can also post annual losses and survive. Hang around AFOL sites long enough and you’ll hear all about the two years they posted annual losses, but you’ll rarely hear that there was a third year because the amount of money they lost that year could be accounted for with a rounding error. If they were a publicly traded company, selling a single share of stock probably would have put them in the black. The two you hear about were big enough, and close enough, that Mattel made an earnest offer to buy the company.

The second thing to remember is that the secondary market isn’t their deal, acquisition of Bricklink notwithstanding. It’s ours. They don’t release products with the intention that they’ll hit insane resale prices, and indeed have done things that killed resale value on many sets, like rereleasing a few sets as is, releasing new versions of other sets, and reissuing rare elements with high resale value. They’ve actively worked to shut down certain aspects of the secondary market, like cutting off known scalpers, and imposing lifetime limits for online sales.

And the third thing to remember is that this isn’t a normal collectible. When you collect trading cards or action figures, what do you do with them? I know there’s at least one person who paints over trading cards, and there’s a community of people who customize action figures (I used to do this myself), but these are the exception rather than the rule. For most people, it’s just stuff to own. And for many people, old LEGO sets can be parted out and used as art supplies for MOCs. Even if the sets’ value drops, the parts are still useful to those of us who create. High resale value even hinders our efforts, at times, as I’ve had a few instances where I’ve had to buy whole sets on the secondary market just to get one or two exclusive elements.

Nothing lasts forever, and all things change over time, but some things weather changes better than others. Lots of collectibles markets have had the bottom drop out from under them, but most of those are single-market systems. With LEGO sets, there are at least three markets layered over each other. There’s sales of sealed sets, which people buy just to own and set on a shelf. There’s sales of opened sets, which people buy to build, and to fill holes in their collections. And there’s sales of loose parts and minifigs, which people buy to either complete partial sets, or to build something new. As any one of these markets wanes, one or both of the others may see a boost.

@Pompatus said:
" @TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @BulbaNerd4000 said:
"I can see the pre-order not being included, but the others are weird"

Not really. People have every right to be frustrated, but I wouldn't call it weird (or scummy like another person mentioned) to not include certain sets in the double points. Those sets are going to be the most highly sought after. That means their stock will disappear quicker than the rest. Double points directly entices people to buy the sets they apply to. It's just a way to not run out of stock. Which would you rather have, the set for normal points or no set and no points?

Thousands of companies do the exact same thing, that is, excluding promotions and deals from new/super popular items. Better to do that than have a bunch of people mad that something is out of stock. It's not like LEGO VIP points serve any direct value to LEGO themselves. They're just there to get you to spend more money than you would have."

So what you’re saying is that Lego is doing this for our benefit, that it doesn’t want us to wind up disappointed ar finding these items sold out - THAT’s how much they care.

Stockholm Syndrome anyone?

"
They do it for both us and them. Have you never taken an economics class or just forgotten everything you were taught? Consumer and supplier is a mutualistic relationship, where both sides benefit. They make sure items stay in stock so that people will be happy by doing stuff like exclude them from certain promotions or lowering the limits of how many one person can buy, the latter which I'm sure you have no issue with. They also offer up rewards like store points or free product for reaching certain spending thresholds, or literally just signing up for an account sometimes. On the flip side, they meanwhile will hopefully ultimately gain more sales as a result of people signing up/spending more money on product in order to get the benefits/rewards, specifically on the products that they want to sell more of or eliminate stock of all together. Probably the simplest example of a consumer and supplier being a mutalistic relationship is plain old sales. Sales are cheaper for the individual consumer, but tend to result in more customers buying the product from the supplier, resulting in more total money even with the lowered prices. But again, this should be obvious.

I mean, you're honestly just being a bit hypocritical at the end of the day if you're upset about them excluding sets from promotions, but appreciating stuff like set limits or free gifts. It's all mutalistic, for the benefit of both in some manner. Contrary to what you might think, businesses do actually care about keeping their customers.

Not to mention, where's the anger over it just being Star Wars? Why not all themes? Is it because it's May The 4th and so only Star Wars makes sense? Because that's just advertising speak that they know makes sense. And yet if they were to advertise that they were doing double VIP points on many select sets and then it turns out it's only Star Wars, people would be pissed. Heck, include all the Star Wars sets, even the one's that aren't included in the actual promo. People would still be pissed. And yet it's the exact same thing, in fact, it'd be even better. The expectation is there and the disappointment is there. The only difference is that one of them makes sense and the other doesn't.

All that rambling to say, you're of course fine with the stuff that makes sense and not fine with the stuff that doesn't make sense. But sense is ultimately tied to knowledge, and if you don't have the knowledge necessary to properly judge whether a situation makes sense or not (for example, knowing that it's May The 4th), let alone being unwilling to actually do research for it and find it, then you're not actually qualified to properly judge it at all.

Definitely would like the Homestead Kitchen GWP but I'm not seeing enough Star Wars sets I want to spend the money on to make the $160 minimum.

@TheBrickGuru24:
I don’t know that I would say it’s the biggest of the year. That’s going up against Black Friday Preview, Black Friday, the December GWP launch, and the January 1st product launch, all four of which get a huge boost from the holidays (buying Christmas gifts/decorations and/or spending Christmas money). Combined, I always figured they were the five heaviest shopping events of the year, but would not have presumed to rank them. The fact that these were the times of year when people would most likely encounter the queueing system only reinforces that theory.

@PurpleDave said:
" @TheBrickGuru24 :
I don’t know that I would say it’s the biggest of the year. That’s going up against Black Friday Preview, Black Friday, the December GWP launch, and the January 1st product launch, all four of which get a huge boost from the holidays (buying Christmas gifts/decorations and/or spending Christmas money). Combined, I always figured they were the five heaviest shopping events of the year, but would not have presumed to rank them. The fact that these were the times of year when people would most likely encounter the queueing system only reinforces that theory."

Sorry, I should have clarified, I mean LEGO specific events. Black Friday, Christmas and the like are all indeed very popular shopping events, but everyone does them. Hardly any businesses do May the 4th stuff, especially not where they're releasing new product for it, and it's LEGO's thing most of all. If you look up "May the 4th promo", literally everything you will get is LEGO. I also personally wouldn't consider January 1st an "event" per say, but that's just me and I don't really mind if someone disagrees. It is definitely a big spending day though.

@TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @StyleCounselor said:

"Edit: Don't even get me started on how bad the telephone, chat, and email customer service has become! They used to be the BEST. Now, they are horrible. :(

Edit x2: I wish Lego was run by the dudes from Brickset!"

Your first point is the textbook definition of projection bias and also plain ignorance. I have had excellent customer service as recently as last month, and haven't needed customer service from that point on to the present day. And that's with them being overworked and low staffed for many months now, which you seemed to completely forget about.

And I surely hope you're not serious about that. Like it or not, the people that run the marketing part of the company are in those jobs because they have degrees for those jobs, meaning they are more qualified than everyone here at it who doesn't have a marketing degree, and acting like any one of us could do a better job because they wouldn't piss off customers is, well, it's ridiculous. Not only is it impossible to make everyone happy, we all have such a ground level knowledge of what exactly is going on that assuming we could do better without having any info on the other 90% of the situation would be like assuming you could fix a toilet or something when you only know how to plunge it.

Not to mention, and I'm putting this bluntly, you guys would kill pretty much the entire CFOL, TFOL and YAFOL fandom. I couldn't care less about BTS, but that set is going to sell like hotcakes. Yet most comments on here when it were announced were along the lines of "Why is this necessary, there were much better options." Honestly, I absolutely relish the moments where I know the comments on announcements are actually going to be positive, and not filled with "old man shouting at clouds" nonsense, because that's what it's like most of the time, and I know from talking to people outside this site that there are many of us (most of them younger than the average age here, myself included) who are absolutely sick of it. That is a horrific idea in all of its entirety. "

Do you know what they call someone with a marketing degree?... not talented enough for graphic design, not cool enough for advertising, and not smart enough for economics.

@PurpleDave said:
" @StyleCounselor :
The first thing to remember is you don’t need to see continuous growth to stay in business. You can have growth trail off and even shrink but still maintain profitability. You can also post annual losses and survive. Hang around AFOL sites long enough and you’ll hear all about the two years they posted annual losses, but you’ll rarely hear that there was a third year because the amount of money they lost that year could be accounted for with a rounding error. If they were a publicly traded company, selling a single share of stock probably would have put them in the black. The two you hear about were big enough, and close enough, that Mattel made an earnest offer to buy the company.

The second thing to remember is that the secondary market isn’t their deal, acquisition of Bricklink notwithstanding. It’s ours. They don’t release products with the intention that they’ll hit insane resale prices, and indeed have done things that killed resale value on many sets, like rereleasing a few sets as is, releasing new versions of other sets, and reissuing rare elements with high resale value. They’ve actively worked to shut down certain aspects of the secondary market, like cutting off known scalpers, and imposing lifetime limits for online sales.

And the third thing to remember is that this isn’t a normal collectible. When you collect trading cards or action figures, what do you do with them? I know there’s at least one person who paints over trading cards, and there’s a community of people who customize action figures (I used to do this myself), but these are the exception rather than the rule. For most people, it’s just stuff to own. And for many people, old LEGO sets can be parted out and used as art supplies for MOCs. Even if the sets’ value drops, the parts are still useful to those of us who create. High resale value even hinders our efforts, at times, as I’ve had a few instances where I’ve had to buy whole sets on the secondary market just to get one or two exclusive elements.

Nothing lasts forever, and all things change over time, but some things weather changes better than others. Lots of collectibles markets have had the bottom drop out from under them, but most of those are single-market systems. With LEGO sets, there are at least three markets layered over each other. There’s sales of sealed sets, which people buy just to own and set on a shelf. There’s sales of opened sets, which people buy to build, and to fill holes in their collections. And there’s sales of loose parts and minifigs, which people buy to either complete partial sets, or to build something new. As any one of these markets wanes, one or both of the others may see a boost."

Again, your knowledge is unparalleled and your analysis inspired. Yet, it addresses almost nothing about my argument. I hope the points you raised provide hope that Lego is uniquely poised to weather the coming storm. However, Lego has never been in this situation before. They are now the top of the top. Nevertheless, they have rapidly forgotten from whence they came. I see little that evokes 'unique wisdom.' Instead, I see a company rushing headlong into oblivion with little regard for its past (both its mistakes and the customers whose passion built this company).

@StyleCounselor said:
" @TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @StyleCounselor said:

"Edit: Don't even get me started on how bad the telephone, chat, and email customer service has become! They used to be the BEST. Now, they are horrible. :(

Edit x2: I wish Lego was run by the dudes from Brickset!"

Your first point is the textbook definition of projection bias and also plain ignorance. I have had excellent customer service as recently as last month, and haven't needed customer service from that point on to the present day. And that's with them being overworked and low staffed for many months now, which you seemed to completely forget about.

And I surely hope you're not serious about that. Like it or not, the people that run the marketing part of the company are in those jobs because they have degrees for those jobs, meaning they are more qualified than everyone here at it who doesn't have a marketing degree, and acting like any one of us could do a better job because they wouldn't piss off customers is, well, it's ridiculous. Not only is it impossible to make everyone happy, we all have such a ground level knowledge of what exactly is going on that assuming we could do better without having any info on the other 90% of the situation would be like assuming you could fix a toilet or something when you only know how to plunge it.

Not to mention, and I'm putting this bluntly, you guys would kill pretty much the entire CFOL, TFOL and YAFOL fandom. I couldn't care less about BTS, but that set is going to sell like hotcakes. Yet most comments on here when it were announced were along the lines of "Why is this necessary, there were much better options." Honestly, I absolutely relish the moments where I know the comments on announcements are actually going to be positive, and not filled with "old man shouting at clouds" nonsense, because that's what it's like most of the time, and I know from talking to people outside this site that there are many of us (most of them younger than the average age here, myself included) who are absolutely sick of it. That is a horrific idea in all of its entirety. "

Do you know what they call someone with a marketing degree?... not talented enough for graphic design, not cool enough for advertising, and not smart enough for economics."

I've literally never heard them called that before in my life. And as someone with a friend and two relatives who have marketing degrees, I also heavily disagree. They're some of the most intelligent and creativity talented people I know. And also very much cool.

The bottom line is, a person with a degree and/or experience in something is way more qualified to do that something than anyone who has neither and is merely angry at them because they think they did or are doing a bad job. Anyone who disagrees with that is, to me, just as foolish as the people who think they can make the "easy" FG kick that their favorite team missed, knowing how to do it, but having never actually kicked a football before. Hint: They can't. They never can.

@TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @StyleCounselor said:
" @TheBrickGuru24 said:
" @StyleCounselor said:

"Edit: Don't even get me started on how bad the telephone, chat, and email customer service has become! They used to be the BEST. Now, they are horrible. :(

Edit x2: I wish Lego was run by the dudes from Brickset!"

Your first point is the textbook definition of projection bias and also plain ignorance. I have had excellent customer service as recently as last month, and haven't needed customer service from that point on to the present day. And that's with them being overworked and low staffed for many months now, which you seemed to completely forget about.

And I surely hope you're not serious about that. Like it or not, the people that run the marketing part of the company are in those jobs because they have degrees for those jobs, meaning they are more qualified than everyone here at it who doesn't have a marketing degree, and acting like any one of us could do a better job because they wouldn't piss off customers is, well, it's ridiculous. Not only is it impossible to make everyone happy, we all have such a ground level knowledge of what exactly is going on that assuming we could do better without having any info on the other 90% of the situation would be like assuming you could fix a toilet or something when you only know how to plunge it.

Not to mention, and I'm putting this bluntly, you guys would kill pretty much the entire CFOL, TFOL and YAFOL fandom. I couldn't care less about BTS, but that set is going to sell like hotcakes. Yet most comments on here when it were announced were along the lines of "Why is this necessary, there were much better options." Honestly, I absolutely relish the moments where I know the comments on announcements are actually going to be positive, and not filled with "old man shouting at clouds" nonsense, because that's what it's like most of the time, and I know from talking to people outside this site that there are many of us (most of them younger than the average age here, myself included) who are absolutely sick of it. That is a horrific idea in all of its entirety. "

Do you know what they call someone with a marketing degree?... not talented enough for graphic design, not cool enough for advertising, and not smart enough for economics."

I've literally never heard them called that before in my life. And as someone with a friend and two relatives who have marketing degrees, I also heavily disagree. They're some of the most intelligent and creativity talented people I know. And also very much cool.

The bottom line is, a person with a degree and/or experience in something is way more qualified to do that something than anyone who has neither and is merely angry at them because they think they did or are doing a bad job. Anyone who disagrees with that is, to me, just as foolish as the people who think they can make the "easy" FG kick that their favorite team missed, knowing how to do it, but having never actually kicked a football before. Hint: They can't. They never can."

Be careful criticizing people about whom you know little. This feed attracts professionals who not only have vast experience and expertise, but also teach others (to get said degrees). Some of us also have vast knowledge, experience, and expertise of sports too (history, coaching and doing!). Can I kick it? Yes, I can!

Thankfully, I've been able to forget most of what I was forced to learn about fixing plumbing (Dad was a metal shop/electronics teacher who made us work as young kids repairing rental houses).

It's better to debate arguments and ideas rather than ad hominem attacks.

Isn't Luke a little old to leave his toys in the kitchen? I thought he kept his toys- like his model of 75081- in the droid storage room.

He's a pretty spoiled kid to have a cool enough car to also have a toy of the same model.

Can't imagine back in the day leaving a toy of my rusty Chevette hatchback in the kitchen. My momma would've thrown that sh** out in the yard! ;)

@StyleCounselor said:

"Be careful criticizing people about whom you know little. This feed attracts professionals who not only have vast experience and expertise, but also teach others (to get said degrees). Some of us also have vast knowledge, experience, and expertise of sports too (history, coaching and doing!). Can I kick it? Yes, I can!

Thankfully, I've been able to forget most of what I was forced to learn about fixing plumbing (Dad was a metal shop/electronics teacher who made us work as young kids repairing rental houses).

It's better to debate arguments and ideas rather than ad hominem attacks. "

Ad hominen? I directly addressed the point. Calling someone a fool for a foolish opinion isn't automatic ad hominem lol. Those dummies that actually think kicking a football 30 yards through a goal post is easy without having ever tried it deserve to be called dummies. I don't need to know anything else about them to know how silly of an idea it is Not to mention, there was a segment on a show a couple years ago where they literally brought fans who had said they could out to try it and they all failed miserably. It was great. I know plenty about sports too. My username here is literally derived from a nickname I was given by a friend, TheSportsGuru, for how much I know about them. Heck, I even played soccer for 12 years, so I know how to kick a ball better than most. And yet I know that I can't make a 30 yard FG, having never tried before. Why? Because I'm not delusional and primarily use logic over emotion when I think. It's that simple and more people should do it.

I'd also just like to point out that I never said nobody here had marketing experience or a degree. I'm talking specifically about those who don't and think they can do a better job than those who do. Even if you're an expert in LEGO, that doesn't mean you can do a better job. As you said there's plenty of experts in football out there. As I've said, most of them still can't kick a FG. It's not the same thing, and will never be the same thing.

@TheBrickGuru24:
Ooh, yeah, definitely can’t claim Black Friday, not even being from the US. Black Friday Preview I could see go either way, since it’s based on a US tradition, but US retailers didn’t start shifting the start of Black Friday earlier until after LEGO Brand Retail in 2014. The Christmas GWP weekend is definitely part of Christmas, and the January 1st launch does take place on New Year’s Day, but in the latter case it’s just coincidence that the vast majority of new product launches take place on the first of the month, and that January seems to be the heaviest month for new product launches. I’d give them that one for sure.

@StyleCounselor:
I guess you need to figure out what you’re really afraid of. You’ve twice noted that 75012 is selling for $400+, and the first time you hinted at the possibility of selling it.

If sales tank, I believe anything short of an epically catastrophic loss of customers is something the company can survive. Even if the company blows through their cash reserves, there’s a trick that partnerships can do to keep a company afloat, which is to require all partners to stake the company more money to give it more time to turn things around. All the descendants of Ole Kirk have fat bank accounts, and can probably afford to give some up if it keeps the company from going under.

MOC builders will benefit from the market bottoming out because raw materials will be cheaper. At the same time, the range of new parts will likely see a reduction as the number of active themes is reduced, and the breadth of those remaining themes follows suit. It’ll basically be a wash for many of us.

If you’re sitting on sealed sets for their resale value, it’s a crap shoot. Your set could keep gaining value, but if the market in general tanks, that value will probably drop. If they release a new Rex minifig, that could also kill the value. If they release a new Phase 2 Rex, it will almost certainly drop in value. Even if nothing changes, there’s no guarantee you could sell your copy for $400, since one person who was willing to fork over that much is no longer trying to buy a copy. And all it takes is one leak of a new Rex minifig for the resale value of your set to be impacted. If you’re so concerned about getting full value out of it, you need to decide if you want to dump it at the current market value, or hang on and hope it continues to climb. And be prepared to miss out on some amount of money, because the chances that you’ll manage to unload it at peak value, right before a new Rex minifig is revealed, is about the same chances as being struck by lightning while picking the winning lottery numbers from a shark’s mouth.

@PurpleDave said:
"
@StyleCounselor :
I guess you need to figure out what you’re really afraid of. You’ve twice noted that 75012 is selling for $400+, and the first time you hinted at the possibility of selling it.

If sales tank, I believe anything short of an epically catastrophic loss of customers is something the company can survive. Even if the company blows through their cash reserves, there’s a trick that partnerships can do to keep a company afloat, which is to require all partners to stake the company more money to give it more time to turn things around. All the descendants of Ole Kirk have fat bank accounts, and can probably afford to give some up if it keeps the company from going under.

MOC builders will benefit from the market bottoming out because raw materials will be cheaper. At the same time, the range of new parts will likely see a reduction as the number of active themes is reduced, and the breadth of those remaining themes follows suit. It’ll basically be a wash for many of us.

If you’re sitting on sealed sets for their resale value, it’s a crap shoot. Your set could keep gaining value, but if the market in general tanks, that value will probably drop. If they release a new Rex minifig, that could also kill the value. If they release a new Phase 2 Rex, it will almost certainly drop in value. Even if nothing changes, there’s no guarantee you could sell your copy for $400, since one person who was willing to fork over that much is no longer trying to buy a copy. And all it takes is one leak of a new Rex minifig for the resale value of your set to be impacted. If you’re so concerned about getting full value out of it, you need to decide if you want to dump it at the current market value, or hang on and hope it continues to climb. And be prepared to miss out on some amount of money, because the chances that you’ll manage to unload it at peak value, right before a new Rex minifig is revealed, is about the same chances as being struck by lightning while picking the winning lottery numbers from a shark’s mouth."

'Afraid' is a nice psychoanalytic take on my argument. Well played.

I stand by my economic critique, but the point underlying your comment is similarly valid. What am I afraid of?

Am I afraid the company I admired so much is losing its way? Am I afraid that Lego could flounder and risk the hobby I enjoy so much? Am I afraid that I have invested too much (time, energy, money) into this hobby? Am I afraid that my Lego sets may lose value?

Perhaps I share all of those concerns. I think the loss of my own monetary investment concerns me the least. As you pointed out, the sets will likely hold their value regardless of what occurs with Lego A/S. Besides, I'm not in it for the money. I love the plastic clicking, rustling joy of creation from bits. Moreover, I own enough sets and bins of pieces to last the rest of my life.

You're definitely spot on about ol' Rexy. Now, is definitely the time. They're bound to do a new one and the value of the old will crash similar to the old UCS Falcon. I didn't even realize I had a sealed back-up to my collection until I went through some old boxes of sets a while ago. I just don't know if I want to be a Lego seller.

You also made a good point about partnerships and family-owned companies. What they sometimes lack in immediate accountability they can more than make up with loyalty and personal reserves. Which of course makes them very accountable... to themselves!

@PurpleDave said:
" @alfred_the_buttler :
When the main offer was a minifig, the spend was much more attainable. With the shift to GWP sets and higher spends, offering tiered GWPs is a way to ensure that even people who can’t manage $100+ purchases can participate. Plus, while I was able to get the AT-ST last year at Meijer, that’s not a national chain in the US. And while I was able to get it more recently at Walmart, it might not be available in every country, so a GWP offer means people won’t have to drop an additional $20+ just to buy a $5 set off the internet.

@Marc100 :
That list was probably compiled a while back, and includes some sets that _some_ regions may not have sold out of at that time. By putting double points on them, it encourages buyers to wipe out the remaining stock where applicable. This is a pretty standard function of the May 4 promos going back several years. It’s not the stuff that sells year round that needs a push out the door, and the GWP used to run out on the first day. Changes that people have been complaining about have probably all been implemented with the goal of making sure someone showing up on the last day isn’t completely disappointed (except AFOLs, because we’re apparently planning to show up pissed off before online promos kick off at midnight, and then give everyone an earful while waiting for the doors to open at LEGO Stores everywhere, the following morning).

@StyleCounselor :
The key thing to remember is that the AFOL community accounts for a significant portion, but not the main portion, of their overall sales. They’re learning how to better tap into this market, but the days of AFOLs gobbling up all the GWPs in the first day of a multi-day promo appear to be over, and their customer relations with regular consumers have probably significantly improved as a result. Most of the people posting here aren’t aware of just how much grief we could collectively cause the company when we descend on launch day like a plague of locusts and little Johnny’s mom stops in on the way home from work to find that the big event is already done. There was even a period when they stopped stocking shared retail exclusives at LEGO Stores because they could pretty much count on a handful of AFOLs cleaning them out right after the doors opened, and then most of those would end up being flipped on eBay or Bricklink."

On that last comment about clearing GWP, I can say hands down this is what a lot of 'casual fans' complain about to LEGO® It's all I hear from my mate in Customer Service

@legoboy051811 said:
" @bobaphat107 said:
"I already have the big sets I want, and I don't like the Landspeeder. So how in earthsname am I to qualify for the Lars' Family Homestead Kitchen (160 euro!!!!!!!)?????"

buy a bunch of battle packs "

Thanks for the suggestion, I will!

@VaultDweller_197 said:

"On that last comment about clearing GWP, I can say hands down this is what a lot of 'casual fans' complain about to LEGO® It's all I hear from my mate in Customer Service"

A big reason, probably the biggest reason for discourse in this community, or really any community for that matter, is people not being able to see outside of the specific group they're in, and being in sort of a bubble in that sense where everything that pleases the bubble is good while everything that doesn't please the bubble is bad. Examples for AFOL's like us include all those mechs (which the kids can't get enough of), sets like the upcoming BTS one (which the preteens won't be able to get enough of) and really anything else that clearly isn't meant for hardcore, adult fans like us, and there is obviously plenty of it. On the flip side, I'd bet most "casual" fans would have no interest in many of the things we love and might even be upset by it. And then of course there are other groups suffering from similar issues. Overall, anyone who can't see the other sides, while not necessarily wrong or anything, just shows to me a complete lack of awareness. It's why saying that they're "getting away from how they used to be" while their fanbase is actively broadening is simply ridiculous to me. I mean yes that is 100% true, but why would they not? A more diverse fanbase is naturally going to mean more diverse decision making/product and less focus on specific groups, not to mention plenty of experimenting. Like, to anyone who is angry at the progression and branching out to the many things that don't interest you, here's what I see: what they "used to be" was more focused on you, and now they're less focused on you, and in fact understandably might even be focused on the newer fans/fanbases more because they want to keep them from immediately leaving again. And while you're fine with the overall community getting larger, what you have a problem with is those new fans getting what they want at the detriment of what you want. Newsflash: that's very childish. It's like the way child siblings are when one is watching TV and the other comes in join them. They're typically fine with them joining, but not when the sibling wants a turn to watch what they want.

And by the way, I'm not talking about when LEGO deliberately tries to do something for our specific community and completely misreads us or messes up in some way. That's a whole different thing. What I'm talking about is when people get upset at them for putting out the 5th Spider-Man mech of the year or choosing a BTS set over several sets they and most everyone else here wanted from Ideas. It's not for us. It's going to be less about us from here on out. And that's not a bad thing.

The list of double-points set on Lego.com includes sets not yet released in Europe and sets already out of stock. It does not include any UCS sets, helmets or dioramas.
The Gift With Purchase set for the May the Fourth weekend is 40531 Lars Homestead. It's a set with 195 parts and 1 minifig which you get if you spend €160 on Star Wars.
Today you can get 40487 Ideas Sailboat Adventure, a set with 330 parts and 2 minifigs, if you spend €150.
That's 70% more parts and an extra minifig at a slightly lower threshold.
Am I satisfied with these offering? It's better than nothing but no, I'm once again not impressed.

Meh.

Pretty underwhelming promotions. The fact that not all SW sets even get double points is pretty bogus. First world problems & all, but definitely not encouraging me to buy.