Open vs Closed-Back LEGO Models: What's Up With That...?
Posted by poshhammer,
Welcome to the first article in the series I am calling "What's Up With That...?" where I, ex-LEGO designer James, will look at some of the frequently asked questions by AFOLs about the mysteries of the design decisions of The LEGO Group.
When The LEGO Group, or any other toy company for that matter, designs a house or a building, one of the big questions early on is: "will this have an open or closed back?" As someone who has designed both open and closed back LEGO models, this is something that I have had to contemplate quite a bit, so can hopefully shed some light on this.
This is one of those questions that AFOLs frequently ask and talk about, as The LEGO Group use all manner of ways of accessing the interior of a model. So let's have a deep-dive into the debate, the pros and cons, and motivations behind why a LEGO designer would choose one over the other, as we try to figure out: what's up with that...?
Traditionally, for house/building-based toys and LEGO models, the open-backed doll house design is both a way for kids to easily access the interior of the model for play and, admittedly, a cost-cutting method to save on making half of the toy.
Why make two halves when you only see one on the front of the box…?
I remember my parents not buying me some LEGO sets as a kid because "That's just a wall, what a rip-off!" But if it was 4x the price for 4 walls, would they have been okay with buying it for me?
Looking at you, 7418 Scorpion Palace
Generally, if a LEGO set is made for kids, the back will be open. This can be seen in LEGO Friends, LEGO Ninjago and LEGO City which are more role-play focused themes.
In LEGO Creator 3 in 1, it’s hit-and-miss whether there’s an open back or not, which makes sense since that theme is more building based (but like stacking bricks “building”, not like a building “building”, like a house is).
This is why lots of toy vehicles are open-topped. It’s not just because it's always a sunny day in LEGO City, but it makes it easier to get minifigures/action figures in and out. This is also why ATVs are so prevalent in toys, but you never actually see them in real life. (Looking forward to the comments of “I live on a farm and I actually see them every day!”)
60394 ATV and Otter Habitat
Which brings us to the 18+ adult models that are more “build for display” than “build for play”. A lot of them are fully enclosed and can open at the back or lift up like the Modular Buildings. This is meant to make the buildings feel more premium with 360 degrees of design and detail.
When I was designing 21341 Disney Hocus Pocus: The Sanderson Sisters' Cottage, I originally had it open back to maximise play, but was told by the IP partner to change it because it needed to be more “adult” oriented. I did, however, put the doors on clips, so you can pop them off if you want it permanently open at the back.
What happened with 43242 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs' Cottage, I’m not really sure. It’s open backed, 18+ and with the same IP partner. Maybe it was a necessity to make a house big enough to fit 8 minifigures, or because it was designed by the Disney team, rather than the Adults team, which was their theme’s standard (21341 Disney Hocus Pocus: The Sanderson Sisters' Cottage was under LEGO Ideas, rather than Disney).
If you would like to hear more about the making of 21341 Disney Hocus Pocus: The Sanderson Sisters' Cottage, check out my new YouTube video on it.
Personally, I prefer open-backed sets. They are toys after all, so play should be prioritised. And if you want to display them, you're basically paying twice as much for something you don't see when it goes on the shelf. Alternatively, you end up with a really plain back which seems out of tradition rather than necessity.
10278 Police Station
You do get clever builds like 10305 Lion Knights' Castle, and some LEGO Creator 3 in 1 buildings, where, by having the model fold open a full 180 degrees, it makes it look like the structure has doubled in size from the front.
Or 10237 Tower of Orthanc where it's open-backed, but it has a big overhang on the roof, so it looks complete for 3/4s of viewing angles.
Can YOU tell that there’s no back on this?
I would like to see more sets like 43242 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs' Cottage and 10325 Alpine Lodge, with a more Sylvanian Families-style play space. In these, the room extends out from the walls for maximum play, rather than a model that looks like it has been sliced in two with a sword (and I’m not just saying that because I worked on 21339 BTS Dynamite…)
But what do you think? Do you prefer the more premium "completeness" of a closed back? Or do you prefer easier access for play and it being easier on the wallet?
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83 comments on this article
Great article!!
One of my favorites in this regard is 21310 Old Fishing Store, fully enclosed with a lot of detail, but also easy to hinge open.
In general though, I would like of more adult orientated sets could be opened at the front, as 21330 Home-Alone does, for instance. This makes it a lot easier to give guests a tour of the set, without having to disassemble major sections.
This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?"
I think generally Lego get it just right with this issue. If a set's already gonna be over £100 'cause it's aimed at AFOLs, you may as well go for the full design and have it closed up to look better on display. But for sets that are more play-oriented, the open back is a good choice as it keeps the price down, and that is hugely important!
See maybe it’s just my nostalgia talking but it seem to me that this is a major benefit of sets like 6067, where they’re technically closed but are on hinges so you can open them up. Best of both worlds. It’s why I was so happy to see that 10305 does the same, as the article says
I've never seen this as an issue. As a kid I always liked having two sides of a building, one for show and then when for play. I thought that maybe the two sided buildings could come with removable panels or something, but apart from that I just enjoyed things the way they were.
All is nice,but the 10223 Kingdom joust...now that was a rip off,because the articles showed 2 seta,while it can as only half a building
I think one of the best ways to combine diplay and easy-to-play is like the old 10027 Train Engine Shed, wich also allows you to combine 2 of them.
And, this will be a great series of articles!!!
@Ridgeheart 10228 is exempt from this debate as it is perfect in every way.
@raven_za That is such a good point about Home Alone! Opening from the front just makes sense for dispay models. Should have included that in the article.
@benredstar That's more engineering that design so I have no idea why it yellows, sorry...
@llatzaret I was not aware of this set! Yes that makes a lot of sense and I'd like to see more of that in the future. I'm sure with a lot of sets though you could just place them back to back without the Technic pins if needed haha
Closed back, for me.
Every time I see a beautiful set in some preliminary image, I remain disappointed when I discover that the model is an "half model".
I really feel the lack of the modular houses such as 4956, 4996, 5891, or 5771.
One factor in this is that LEGO buildings are almost always "incomplete," missing important features, and with the half-buildings the imagination can say "oh, the restroom and the stairs are in the invisible part." With enclosed builds, there's no way around the fact that, for instance, in 21330 Kevin doesn't actually have a bedroom.
@benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
I think AFOLs who are only AFOLs could stand to talk to people who are into other toy lines sometimes. Ask a Transformers fan whether Hasbro or TakaraTomy has figured out how to prevent yellowing...
Open models are ALWAYS better for sets. Less costs are wasted on backsides, and adults just can buy another set to build own backside. I never liked fact modulars are all closed which IMO is their biggest flaw- when you build it many details are very hard to see and its hard to use the interiors.
They all should have got backside flap allowing you to take a peek and reaarange or just opening at half.
I don't understand the appeal of enclosed sets, even for display purposes.
Lego structures have traditionally been open backed. That's just how things work in Legoland, and I've never questioned this since I was a child.
I personally don't enjoy the modular sets as much because you need to physically pick them up and open all of the levels to appreciate the interiors. I find it tedious. Façades of Lego buildings can be as fantastic as the designers can muster, but the magic (for me) is always admiring the intricate interior details.
The Sanderson cottage was a rare exception where I didn't mind it so much. Veiwing the interior from different angles at the different access points really works for that model because what you're seeing is always in shadow. It enhances the subject by delivering an ambiance that the dollhouse style wouldn't allow.
Models like Snow White's Cottage and the Burrow from HP, where the interior floor extends beyond the walls tend to be my favorites. It makes the model feel a bit like a Faberge egg design, with all of the little details spilling over in an unconventional manner.
I prefer open back, myself. I like to see the full view of the inside, rather than take the building apart.
Great article!
For me, it kinda depends on what theme the set is from and/or what type of building the set represents. So, I guess I don't really have a preference. I usually just display my sets anyway. Not a lot of play going on anymore at the age of 36 :P
@benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
I solved that one- don’t leave them out in the sun!
I think 6970 Beta-1 Command Base is the greatest example of all.
It’s open at the front, completely subverting current and future expectations. It has stood nearly alone, a shining example on the rim of a crater.
Or maybe it was just meant to be played with backwards. Who can tell?!? It’s a mystery cloaked in an enigma, dripping in secret sauce.
@EstragonHelmer said:
"I think generally Lego get it just right with this issue. If a set's already gonna be over £100 'cause it's aimed at AFOLs, you may as well go for the full design and have it closed up to look better on display. But for sets that are more play-oriented, the open back is a good choice as it keeps the price down, and that is hugely important!"
How would you be displaying a set, that you'd be able to see the back of it? Is it in the middle of your coffee table? On a rotating base? I don't think I've ever seen anyone display a set that isn't just sitting on a shelf, back to the wall, where the back doesn't matter (outside of the UCS Millenium Falcon inside a coffee table, which doesn't really apply)
@Ridgeheart said:
"Greetings from scenic 10228, which is the ultimate in play, display and creature-discomforts.
Alright, that's probably a slight exaggeration, but it's pretty awesome. I suppose that, plus some removable pin/clip-based modules, would be my go-to. I guess I want my houses and bases to deploy?"
Greetings from 6441, where I am having a blast exploring the sea floor.
Always wanted this as a kid, and now it's on the way. Child me was always annoyed when sets that should have been airtight weren't, so things like that or 6175 (with a tiny modification) were so pleasing.
6067 and 6077 are good examples as well.
Nice article and a good idea for a series (great title, too).
I prefer open back but hinged buildings are great, too. Don't like fully enclosed, which is why I have no modulars.
I doubled up 10275 to make it hinged (and include Santa's bedroom) but I also like the "spill-over" design of 10293. Of the buildings I have, though, 10273 is my favourite for the way it mixes play and display with its open out design.
Very nice article!
One aspect of open-backed or hinged-backed sets that I appreciate is that they give a "minifigure's eye" view of the scene. In other words, you're seeing the rooms more like an inhabitant would, through an invisible "fourth wall" sort of like those in a TV studio. By contrast, when the only view of the interior is through a removable roof or floor, the view of the scene feels more removed and impersonal, like an architectural floor plan rather than a window into the lives of the characters.
The drawback of that kind of approach is that it's difficult to achieve with a complex floor plan, especially one with interior dividing walls creating small spaces like bathrooms or buildings with a lot of depth to them. For instance, I've seen a lot of people compliment the hinged back of the Old Fishing Store set, but personally its implementation of a hinged wall is not one of my favorites because the sheer depth of the building means that unless the roof is removed as well, most of the interior is still out of reach and shrouded in shadow. Implementations like the Simpsons House or Ghostbusters Firehouse, which hinge down the middle to allow more light and access to the interior, work slightly better. And sets like the Lion Knights' Castle are still some of the best of the best by allowing the opened configuration to still look like an even larger full building from the front!
@Kynareth said:
" @benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
I solved that one- don’t leave them out in the sun!"
That didn't work for me, I've had sets turn yellow while sitting for years under my bed.
Thank you for the design insights! Personally, I'm an advocate for closed-back models, as I always view the sets as a piece of world where the figures live in, and it feels much better to see everything scaled appropriately and cramped up, forming a lovely, yet usable house with all-around great detail
The hinged design captures the best of both choices. Lion Knight's Castle 10305 did it very well.
Might be a hot take, but I love open back buildings, gives a lot more opportunities
Excellent article!
I like closed or open backed sets equally in different situations. I suppose, to keep everyone happy, each set could have an optional add-on available. A wall pack for open backed sets, and an interior pack for closed backed sets. Then nobody would need to pay for parts they didn't want.
Of course it wasn't an issue in my childhood, with favourites like 346-2, no pesky minifigs meant open buildings were unheard of!
So, will this series be on a regular schedule, or will future installments appear when they appear? Anyway, on to the subject at hand. Whether I want a building to be dollhouse style or fully enclosed really depends on the building. I love my modulars, but there are many, many open-backed Lego buildings that I also love. 3315, for instance, is a (mini)dollhouse, so it makes perfect sense for it to be designed the way it is! Incidentally, he reason I left 10320 in two chunks (as suggested in @CapnRex101's review) wasn't for play, but so that I can show off the subterranean storage area.
@Andrusi said:
" @benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
I think AFOLs who are only AFOLs could stand to talk to people who are into other toy lines sometimes. Ask a Transformers fan whether Hasbro or TakaraTomy has figured out how to prevent yellowing..."
At least HasTak is doing better on the GPS front... https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Gold_Plastic_Syndrome
As a final thought, this article has me wanting to get 40567 out and rebuild it.
Thanks James / @poshhammer for the insightful view in the design process from the company's perspective.
I see the interest in both structures and have never been bothered by one or the other, especially as Lego is indeed a kids' toy. In official sets, I must admit that I really enjoy buildings designed to fold open, something I first experienced as a kid in 6080.
Although my city and MOCs are designed to be as realistic as possible (within a minifig-scaled world), any build inspired by open-back Lego designs (such as an art school inspired by Emma's 41711 that I'm working on) are simply redesigned to be enclosed, usually following the modular approach.
Great input on the design intent behind open-top vehicles to explain the numerous quads in Lego City (and its suburban forests, jungles, swamps, tundra, interplanetary/stellar space...), but I wonder what explains the prevalence of helicopters. I assume it is a cheap way to provide small swooshable flying vehicles?
Also, regarding ATVs and as requested: I work in the bush and I actually see them every day: https://youtu.be/fZQNFG0AKhs.
(As well as helis, Sherps - which would make great Lego models: https://youtu.be/UbRUbqPLwKA
...and lots of tracked machines such as this Hägglund - which would also make great Lego models: https://youtu.be/lP3tmfhJcCw)
“I live on a farm and I actually see them every day!”
Joking aside, it’s great to get a Lego design perspective on why sets, and even 18+ sets made with adults in mind, vary in whether they have an open or closed back. Personally I think 43242 Snow White’s Cottage is better off with an open back, as it would have been much harder to reach inside it, while 21341 The Sanderson Sister’s Cottage was best served with its hinged backsides so as to make it look complete without sacrificing the ability to play inside of it. Still, I wish more Star Wars sets were designed with 360 degrees of construction, or rather that we got more location-based Star Wars sets in general. Battlefields and starships are great but where’s a UCS or MBS Theed Palace or Petranaki Arena?
Anyways, thanks for your insights @poshhammer!
IMO some sets just work better open-backed, hinged or closed. My biggest issue with modern sets though is that too many of them are "Facades" i.e. most of the pieces and money are devoted to making them look good on the outside; inside though, they are shallow, sparse and (in the case of some Friends sets) use too many stickers to replace actual features.
I always prefer a full building.
Which requires me to buy 2 or three sets to actually make the full buidling..... Discount prices are absolutely essential. :)
Modulars are better as they are. While stand alone houses, castles etc. are better with folding open sides or backs.
For me, the open building facades can be disappointing because from the front it looks like a fully-enclosed build, but then when you see the back is completely open, it feels incomplete.
Closed designed sets look better overall. But for Lego it has to have accessibility for all the functions of the set, and that can sometimes be too cramped where it ruins the experience for play.
Personally, I think Lego sets are getting too detailed in ways where the cost is increasing and the perceived value is decreasing. I miss raised baseplates for sets because they present kids with a landscape to be creative. When all the details are placed within confined spaces, it doesn't leave much room to deviate and add your own details. I know this depends on the set design, but that's the trend I'm noticing.
@fakespacesquid said:
" @EstragonHelmer said:
"I think generally Lego get it just right with this issue. If a set's already gonna be over £100 'cause it's aimed at AFOLs, you may as well go for the full design and have it closed up to look better on display. But for sets that are more play-oriented, the open back is a good choice as it keeps the price down, and that is hugely important!"
How would you be displaying a set, that you'd be able to see the back of it? Is it in the middle of your coffee table? On a rotating base? I don't think I've ever seen anyone display a set that isn't just sitting on a shelf, back to the wall, where the back doesn't matter (outside of the UCS Millenium Falcon inside a coffee table, which doesn't really apply)"
Personally, it's not just about the outside view. I have my modulars beside my desk, not quite against a wall, so I can view the backs from above. But for me it's more about the inside - it'd feel very different if I took the roof off, and there was also no back wall.
Again, it comes to an either-or thing. If it had an open back, it wouldn't need the roof to come off to look inside, so I wouldn't have an issue with the missing wall. To see in you've always gotta open at least 1 surface - I just prefer that the other surfaces are there for the details. I'm very much a little details fan, so an extra wall is just more chance for that!
Interesting article!
I'd like to see a discussion of baseplates, why they're less feasible nowadays, and how that ties in with the new road plates, and the big double thickness plates that seem to crop up in junior sets - 6x12, I think, or possibly 8x16, I haven't got one on hand to check. Is there any theory around when sets should sit on a base vs be composed of separate isolated units?
@Brick_Master Great idea! I'll think on this. :)
Generally speaking I don't like fully enclosed sets unless they're hinged. The Old Fishing Store is fantastic, for example.
My exception to this is when a set tries to look like it's one shape from the front, but in fact is another. Best examples are pyramids, either the Architecture one or the Pharaoh's Quest one. They're not pyramid shaped, and they really should be. I'm happy with one side missing, but nearly three sides missing really does feel wrong.
So ideally, a pyramid would hinge open, but equally acceptable would be three sides built and the one at the back left open, but still maintaining the sloped shape.
@fakespacesquid said:
" @EstragonHelmer said:
"I think generally Lego get it just right with this issue. If a set's already gonna be over £100 'cause it's aimed at AFOLs, you may as well go for the full design and have it closed up to look better on display. But for sets that are more play-oriented, the open back is a good choice as it keeps the price down, and that is hugely important!"
How would you be displaying a set, that you'd be able to see the back of it? Is it in the middle of your coffee table? On a rotating base? I don't think I've ever seen anyone display a set that isn't just sitting on a shelf, back to the wall, where the back doesn't matter (outside of the UCS Millenium Falcon inside a coffee table, which doesn't really apply)"
If you have a grid-style town setup, closed backs can make everything look neater and more "real;" they also allow for cool things like alleys and courtyards that wouldn't look as good with open backs. Similarly, if you have a block of buildings, some angles will show the backsides of other buildings.
I prefer open-back. The best example, IMO, is 75968 4 Privet Drive. For $70 you get six minifigs, a car, and a house. The house is incomplete, but for the size, there's a lot there: Harry's cupboard under the stairs, his later bedroom upstairs, and the living room. You can drop letteres down the chimney or pull the bars off the bedroom window. True, the stairs run the wrong direction, but that's okay.
To make the house complete and enclosed would likely more than double the price, but it wouldn't be twice as good.
The idea of paying the back of the building for nothing in a display set does not take into account the owners who will 'display' their sets in a 'city'. Some have huge tables with a Lego city built on top. Open back is more than a little problem for these setup. They need all 4 walls.
Personally, I do not mind either way. I buy HP (open back) and I buy modulars (closed). If anything I would say:
18+ = completeness and realism = closed back
other stuff = play = do what suits best (either open back or opening-back or even opening-front - as mentioned above for Home Alone).
Monkie kids had a few sets with crates that opened in all sorts of different way. Sometimes, for kid, some secret base is also good; so open-back-everything is not always desirable. For some sets, they should have 4 walls but need to be easily 'openable' is some way to 'reveal' the secret. (just like the D&D set that has lots of 'secret' doors which is really cool - while being an 18+ sets - some kids will get this set and they will have a hard time finding a better set after that)
I guess it really depends on the design and what is the end goal of the set. In the old days of the 1980s Town Sets, everything was open back as you would setup your village with whatever buildings you had and it was easy access for the minifigs without having to tear off roofs to get them in and out, depth was also kept to a minimum because of it.
However when the Modular buildings came out it made absolutely sense to have them be a more premium product and be a full 360 degree design from every angle. Plus that goes with the design of modular systems.
When it comes to high end premium sets of today like the Rivendell set. I think it makes sense to have an open back because 1) its more of a display model stand alone for a bookshelf or 2) if it wants to be played with its easy access to the rear of the model for the minifigs. So I don't believe these models really need a closed back, some designs definitely require it and look complete with the ideas set of Winnie the Pooh where its more of a clamshell design to allow one to open for a complete interior, but it can also sit on a shelf as a display piece from any angle.
Great article, thank you!
The way to go is I believe the "clever" way of 10305: both solutions in one.
You can have it open and you can have it closed and both options look great.
I buy Modular Buildings sets, they're awesome because TLG don't more use classic baseplates 32x32...
so today city sets are only a facade large 4-6 studs that collapse if you slam the door or it's windy!
It's a lil better with Winter Village sets, but they suffer the limited base, too: where is supposed I place different secondary buildings?
So the open back buildings from Classic Town, builded on a baseplate were better, because you had a playable set AND a playboard (eg: the recent "UP house" has got a single, little piece of garden... it's silly! what's the purpose? it's better a real green baseplate, isn't it?)
I got into the Creator Expert modular series because they're enclosed as they are. Prior to that, I was buying the Creator 3-in-1 modular sets. As a kid, building builds always had walls all around. Roofs... roofs were different. If I ever had a set built as a kid with an open back, it always sat at the edge of things since there was no back. With the way my city is now, there are angles that would show open backs. Since this is the case, I've added additional details because the backs of buildings can be seen and can continue the story of the city. I love the Firehouse Headquarters (75827) since it's enclosed but also opens up. I do have to mod it still to make the backside more presentable.
@Lyichir said:
"Very nice article!
One aspect of open-backed or hinged-backed sets that I appreciate is that they give a "minifigure's eye" view of the scene. In other words, you're seeing the rooms more like an inhabitant would, through an invisible "fourth wall" sort of like those in a TV studio. By contrast, when the only view of the interior is through a removable roof or floor, the view of the scene feels more removed and impersonal, like an architectural floor plan rather than a window into the lives of the characters.
The drawback of that kind of approach is that it's difficult to achieve with a complex floor plan, especially one with interior dividing walls creating small spaces like bathrooms or buildings with a lot of depth to them. For instance, I've seen a lot of people compliment the hinged back of the Old Fishing Store set, but personally its implementation of a hinged wall is not one of my favorites because the sheer depth of the building means that unless the roof is removed as well, most of the interior is still out of reach and shrouded in shadow. Implementations like the Simpsons House or Ghostbusters Firehouse, which hinge down the middle to allow more light and access to the interior, work slightly better. And sets like the Lion Knights' Castle are still some of the best of the best by allowing the opened configuration to still look like an even larger full building from the front!"
I agree with just about everything you said.
I do prefer the completed, finished look of a 4-wall build. For me at this point however, my willingness to buy one without the fourth wall depends on the sets/themes I've purchased before and the displays they fit into.
It is really nice when display and play are balanced. I agree that hinges are undoubtedly the best for that.
Sets like Harry Potter, Star Wars, Hobbit, and Christmas Village get a pass on the 4th Wall. But, I refused to buy 910032 even though it was a very nice build. My Lego City needs four walls.
Haunted House is my ideal. Closed, but hinged. Lifting levels off a Modular isn’t as satisfying.
@Hobbes, @Lyichir, @StyleCounselor all really said it best for me but I’ll elaborate.
It mostly depends on what came before. I’m okay with open backed on one offs and Hogwarts, Star Wars, and Winter Village because that’s always been the case. I just do my best with my kids to find a good orientation for them on their LEGO tables that looks good from one angle while still giving them easy access.
Anything for my own city must be fully enclosed which is why I was all over the train shed, bowling alley, and Studgate but had ZERO interest in Parisian Street. When buying City sets for incorporation like the gas station or car wash, I unfortunately have to do some augmentative surgery on them.
Thank you for the great article and I hope Brickset keeps churning out these type deep dives into LEGO collecting, especially since our forum basically folded. Call me a boomer but Discord doesn’t work for me. :o)
James - Have you received any non-positive feedback from your former colleagues about opening the kimono so much on some of the behind the scenes stuff at LEGO?
I do think modular building are great for display, but I've always been annoyed by the fact that it's hard to play with them and to access most of the inner areas. I've had a super hard time playing with the Brick Bank, for example.
However, I just cannot display together some great 3-in-1 buildings with modulars because the former just feel incomplete.
Still, what bothers me the most is that, in the last decade, open building are becoming more and more narrow and just façades. I won't even go into City, because I don't collect the theme, but when I compare the original Friend's houses, like 3315 or 41095, with more recent one like 41369 or 42620, the latter are really disappointing. Every division nowadays just feels very packed with stuff and without space to do anything, while before you could play in every room.
And I'm using houses as an example, but I this feeling extends to all recent remakes of past Friends sets (hairdressers, coffee shops, etc.).
@AID_Lego_Creations said:
"I'm an advocate for closed-back models, as I always view the sets as a piece of world where the figures live in"
I was half forming this thought as I read the article and comments. I think it's why I like closed or hinged. I want the model to be its own reality.
Perhaps it's the same reason I am disappointed at storeys with no built access, something I notice is regularly brought up as a criticism in official Brickset reviews. It dilutes the internal reality of the set.
@poshhammer said:
"This is also why ATVs are so prevalent in toys, but you never actually see them in real life. (Looking forward to the comments of “I live on a farm and I actually see them every day!”)"
I live in a townhouse condo in Metro Detroit, and they use one for maintenance and plowing the sidewalks in the winter. But I also grew up semi-rural, and at least three of the neighbor kids had them, plus my late uncle and his two sons used them for hunting/yardwork up in the farming community where my mom grew up.
Regarding which is preferable for display, it really depends on how you plan to display it. I've got 21316, which stays in a tote unless I take it to a show. When I do unpack it, it's going on a large layout that is often viewable from four sides, and because it looked weird, I stripped off the extended play section and walled in the back.
Even in a shelf situation, the extended playspace sticks out so far that it restricts how narrow a shelf you can display it on, and the playspace is visible for at least 270 degrees. If you're not actually playing with it, it's an obtrusive sight.
@raven_za:
I didn't want to really change Home Alone from the stock set, so I built "wings" that nest around the sides (recently, I realized it's actually the center section that's been shrunk, which would require a massive overhaul to fix). When I display it at the Detroit Symphony Orchestra's Home Alone concert, I do get asked what it looks like inside, and have unstacked it or opened all the doors to let people see inside. It definitely helps that it's a front-access design, since that's the side that faces the public. And in a private display, front-access makes it easier for AFOLs to enjoy the interior as well, since the back will often be pushed up against a wall somewhere.
@Andrusi:
Kevin barely spends any time in his own bedroom, though. He spends a lot more time in the two bedrooms that were included, and there's a _LOT_ of real estate that's missing from the interior of that model. It took too vans to cart everyone to the airport, so the way the set is laid out he would have had at least one other family member bunking with him in the attic, and people would have been tied to the dining room chairs so they wouldn't fall on the floor.
80s castle sets, as well as the recent ones, are great in that respect: they can be closed up to look like a fully complete building, but they look much more imposing opened up. Hinged buildings (like the Medieval Market Square or some 3-in-1 Creator sets) are always great, because you get to choose how you display them. It's not one or the other -- it's both!
@benredstar:
@Kynareth:
It's not sunlight that causes them to yellow. It's a chemical mixed into the plastic breaking down, and it can happen even with parts that are stored in a cool, dark environment. I had a 1x1 brick that yellowed to almost tan. It was built into a white car that did not yellow. The top of the brick was visible through a clear windshield, but it was only the surface that was exposed to open air that yellowed.
I prefer closed backs in general, a set like snow whites cottage disappoints (imo) simply because its not complete. Hinges seem to be the best option to me, set like the monster fighters mansion, the droptower mansion, the simpsons house all look perfect and offer easy acces and playability. When i build my own modulars (for instance a corner modular out of 2 sesame street sets) i use a hinge system whenever possible.
Have a Back of a building that is REMOVEable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make a note why remove able backing for example in description when buying set
Different Example
This set was intended for no backing for building...
We included option to have backing for building...
That why this set little bit more in Price than intended.
@raven_za said:
"One of my favorites in this regard is 21310 Old Fishing Store, fully enclosed with a lot of detail, but also easy to hinge open.
In general though, I would like of more adult orientated sets could be opened at the front, as 21330 Home-Alone does, for instance. This makes it a lot easier to give guests a tour of the set, without having to disassemble major sections."
Agree in this regard. Fully enoclosed for me.
Some interesting opinions here.
I must say that I personally prefer closed backs because I display my sets within a 'Lego City' layout. Authenticity is key for me, so as well as closed-backs, I tend to fiddle around and modify interiors, so each modular or modular-style building has at least one bathroom. I wasn't too bothered about the 21330 Home Alone House omitting Kevin's room, because even if the set doesn't exactly replicate the house in the movie, it still feels like an authentic house with a kitchen/dining room, a living room, a bathroom, a master bedroom, and a child's bedroom (in this case, Buzz's). Also, in the film, Kevin ended up being sent to the attic which also doubles as a makeshift bedroom, so in effect, there are three bedrooms in the set, and in the absence of a Buzz minifig, Kevin can easily take either Buzz's bedroom or the attic. I was actually more bothered by the absence of a bath or shower, and ended up modifying and adding an extension to my set (i.e. I built on top of the kitchen, so that the entire building is a uniform 2 floors, not including attic/washroom, throughout) in order to accommodate a bath/bigger bathroom.
As for the question of where TLG should go from here, in terms of closed and open-backed sets, as long as closed-backed sets aren't limited to modulars, and we still get some closed-back sets under different themes (I'm hoping and expecting that the forthcoming Cullen Twilight House will be accurate to the early Lego Ideas design), I don't mind if TLG mix it up, although for me that either means skipping on open-backed sets like the 43242 Snow White Cottage, or saving up to modify it (possibly by using one of the Rebrickable mods as a guide).
I really love an earlier suggestion regarding 'extension packs' for those of us willing to pay extra to have a closed-set. Thus, allowing everyone the option, including those who do want easy access to interiors (i.e. for play-set purposes etc).
Also, ironically, for someone who is so fussy and particular about closed-sets, I *did* order 910032 because I plan to place that particular set against a wall (assuming I even decide to take it out of the box in the near-future) perhaps with an eye to eventually adding a closed back (an admittedly daunting prospect for such a wide set).
@Calabar said:
"I really feel the lack of the modular houses such as 4956, 4996, 5891, or 5771."
those four houses in specific bring wonderful memories of the LEGO Creator's Island flash game. they're a great collection indeed.
I think unless the set is designed to be seen from all angles like 70620, having only three walls and an open back is more than fine. As long as the two side walls cover up the open back when viewed from the side, the display value is still all there.
Lego is expensive enough. I don't want to pay extra for a plain wall I won't ever see.
Fantastic article!
@yellowcastle said:
"Thank you for the great article and I hope Brickset keeps churning out these type deep dives into LEGO collecting, especially since our forum basically folded. Call me a boomer but Discord doesn’t work for me. :o)"
I'm at the very tail end of Generation X (I was born in1980) and I've never even tried Discord. I only have a Facebook account because that's the only way some mobile games I play only allow you to transfer your save data to another device by logging on to your FB account through the game; I never actually do anything there.
@PurpleDave said:" @benredstar:
@Kynareth:
It's not sunlight that causes them to yellow. It's a chemical mixed into the plastic breaking down, and it can happen even with parts that are stored in a cool, dark environment. I had a 1x1 brick that yellowed to almost tan. It was built into a white car that did not yellow. The top of the brick was visible through a clear windshield, but it was only the surface that was exposed to open air that yellowed."
I'm well aware that light exposure isn't the only cause of yellowing, but the only noticeable cases of it in my collection that I can remember are in pieces from sets (including 6441 and 8536, both of which I really kick myself over) that spent to much time in a south-facing window. The window I keep 21321 in now is not only west-facing, but I keep the window shadedrawn 24/7, so the set doesn't get exposed to direct sunlight.
@TheOtherMike:
I'm earlier Gen X, and my LUG moved from Yahoo Groups to Slack to Discord. I preferred Yahoo Groups, hated Slack enough that I never even tried to join until right before the monetization fiasco forced the club to seek a new home, and (mostly) love Discord. I wouldn't touch Facebook with someone else's ten foot pole, unless it was covered in tar and set on fire. And then I'd probably just throw the pole at it and run.
Regarding the yellowing, sunlight, or the heat that comes from being sunbaked, may accelerate the process, but there's clearly something more at play given the number of people who've had bricks yellow in dark basements. Ultimately, though, it comes down to something inside the plastic breaking down, and it can extend pretty deep into the plastic, while ABS is supposed to be a UV resistant plastic. Funny thing is, I've read comments where people suggested that exposure to sunlight should actually sun-bleach the yellow color away, sometimes citing a particular de-yellowing technique that involves exposing the parts to sunlight.
The yellowing is caused by the Bromine in the plastic. The bromine are incorporated into the plastic during the manufacturing process, where they act as a barrier to prevent the spread of fire. However, bromine-containing plastics have a tendency to go yellow over time due to a process known as photodegradation.
As a collector of Lego and 80’/90’s toys, yellowing unfortunately just comes with the territory. Some say it comes with sunlight, heat, or humidity. Bottom line, it varies. I have seen mint on card or opened mint in seal box specimens have yellowed plastic. Theory is that also maybe the wrong amount of bromine was mixed in the manufacturing process. But basically your mileage will vary when it comes to yellowing. This was not limited to toys, just look at old Nintendo consoles or old 80’’s computer.
A way to get rid of it was through hydrogen peroxide. I will let readers search online for that process. It is hit or miss process and ironically includes sunlight. Although I have seen very successful reduction/elimination of the yellowing. Remember your mileage may vary. Hope this helps, no plastic is immune to yellowing. If it is plastic, there will always be a chance of yellowing.
Ok first and foremost, great article. And a fun concept. I’m sure most of us have wondered about certain design choices TLG had made at one time or another. I look forward to more articles like this!
Now that I understand the reasoning, I’m gonna have to say I prefer open back sets, they are just easier for my fat hands. lol
For me doesn't matter, but my wife only meets my excitement "look how amazing this building is!" when the back is open, so she can see what is inside as well. So I would lean on the open back (or closed back with a hinge that splits the model in half) because I like when my wife is excited too.
Y'know, when I think back on the buildings I built as a kid, they were always one story with four walls and no roof.
im always looking for display models that can be played with. so i prefer the closed back builds that can open in some way for play, like home alone, simpsons, modulars. the style of opening doesnt matter to me as long as it works, the simpsons house took extra work to make it fit into a city and be connected down and still be able to open up. however i do understand why open backs exist and are used. and im fine with using some open backed sets for the outer surround for my city such as sesame street, diagon alley/gringotts bank. i think ghostbusters firehouse has a great blend of openablility and great viewing angles, except for the backside. there have been some great creator sets in the past that have been complete buildings that also open up to have play and display in multiple ways such as set 31065 park street townhouse.
I much prefer enclosed buildings. With a hinge or hinges to allow easy access or a different configuration, depending what the building is.
I accept I’m in a minority to not really care about the interior. I’d much rather have a complete but empty building, versus an open-backed with interior detail. I don’t play with my buildings, I just like to build and then admire them. I love architecture (although not the Architecture range, strangely) so i just want ornate and interesting buildings.
I like both!
@Ridgeheart said:
"Greetings from scenic 10228 , which is the ultimate in play, display and creature-discomforts.
Alright, that's probably a slight exaggeration, but it's pretty awesome."
No exaggeration imho. I completely agree.
10228 to me is the perfect example of how play and display can be combined in the best way possible.
Completely open backs look like cheaping out (which James basically confirmed), while the Modular approach to me seems to be the worst.
When I was a kid in the 80s, the usual type of building was open back. But those sets often felt more substantial than nowadays because they typically came on baseplates, which allowed for more cohesive scenery than today, where everything not connected to the main building is some tiny side build, making for the final set often looking like a bit of a mess on the table/floor.
@benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
Last I heard Lego claimed to have fixed solved yellowing with white parts made from 2017 or 2018 onwards.
Also plastic degeneration is simply natural since it contains oil and once the oil evaporates it becomes brittle, leaks a goo or something else.
Yellowing can also be excellerated by putting something into sunlight (regardless of timespan) and then putting it into complete darkness. That's why some people put their toys only in windowless rooms.
The approach on the actual Silvanian house looks like the best solution if the wall-less floor could be removed and the two wall structures can be enclosed.
My issue with open wall structures is that it ensures every nook and cranny gets dusty while enclosed spaces only need you to dust the outside which is flat enough on Modulars to be done with in a flash.
Excellent article. I'm looking forward to seeing more of these.
For me open backs are my choice. Hinged is fine but rides up the pricing. Closed backsides are somewhat difficult to show off compared to open backsides. Also most backsides do not offer as much detail as the front does, but the ninjago city gardens would be less attractive if it had an open back and its probably not possibe to hinge all those floor units and keeping the looks. So i guess it depends on the set in the end..
@Kynareth said:
" @benredstar said:
"This is a great read and I think "what's up with that?" is a brilliant concept for future articles. Can I throw out a suggestion for another article (based on a recent Facebook thread) "How come white LEGO bricks still turn yellow in the sun? Can the multi-billion dollar LEGO company really not fix this problem?""
I solved that one- don’t leave them out in the sun!"
they yellow, regardless of sun. Sun only enhances the proces.
On the subject: Hinged models all the way: it is the best of both worlds!
Super interesting idea for a serie of articles
@Doctor_Hugh said:
"I accept I’m in a minority to not really care about the interior. I’d much rather have a complete but empty building..."
So the very first modulars would have been right up your alley (no pun intended), then.
Humans are in charge of these chemical processes (re: mixes of the stuff going in to the injectors) for plastics. Sometimes they get it wrong. It’s more complicated than this as many have suggested but this is at the core of the problem. People.
Different people at different times at different facilities making different mistakes over different decades and very little in the way of industry communication about processes.
It’s not limited to yellowing or brittle plastics in toys. Gooey soft plastics, sticky paints, misaligned prints, rubbery parts, degrading components, malfunctioning mechanisms that test perfectly in pre-production, and on and on and on…
When I worked in manufacturing I came out of it shocked anything got finished as well as it ever did. For anyone.
@blogzilly:
ISO 9000, making sure you screw up exactly the same way, every time!
Thanks for the insight poshhammer!
Most closed-back purists are attempting to build tabletop towns/cities: they have more in common with model railroad enthusiasts than anyone doing anything artistic. They buy this year's Modular Building and tweak it minimally. There's not really much creativity in deciding whether 10270 should be opposite or adjacent to 10297 . The interiors are important only because you can see through the windows.
This has become a popular way to enjoy Lego for adults.
I was SO disappointed when the Sanderson house came out and was not open like the original design. I'm planning on trying to modify it so it is more open, but we'll see how that goes as I've only been into Lego for a couple years and still learning how all the parts work. But it makes me feel better to know that the open back was your original design. I do prefer an open back because it is easier to see all the cool things inside. I've never understood having to partially disassemble a build to look inside. It makes more sense to me for a build with four walls to just leave the inside empty. Who's going to see it? The sets might cost less that way, too.
I think the open-back or hinged opening is the best design/scale for LEGO buildings. Basically treat them like dollhouses.
Love this article and have been curious on what makes a designer choose which way to go, I learned a lot! Thank you :D
My personal fave is when a set can open up to reveal the goodies inside but also closes up (partially or fully) so it's smaller to store and also gives a bit of a completed look and less wall-like. What makes me a bit sad is when the inside is so shallow I can't really fit mini figures in it with the studs.
I also love the Sylvanian Family toys so seeing them in here was a joy! Cheers for a fun article!
Prefer complete models.