Bright-Coloured Filler Bricks: What's Up With That...?
Posted by poshhammer,Welcome to "What's Up With That...?", the article series where I, ex-LEGO designer James and host of new YouTube channel TUBESIDE, will explore some of the frequently asked questions from AFOLs about the mysteries of the design decisions of The LEGO Group.
It is hard to pinpoint exactly when (let me know in the comments if you do know), but at some point, I suspect in the 90s/00s, The LEGO Group started filling their models with brightly coloured bricks and increasingly so as time goes on. I am sure to many of you it makes sense why, but it is still something that I would like to talk about as I have seen comments online where people get the wrong idea about why it is implemented.
So, let’s crack open the brightly coloured insides of this topic as we ask: bright coloured filler bricks, what’s up with that…?
Right off the bat, I would like to say that this is not a way of getting rid of excess bricks in a certain colour. Anyone who knows how supply chain management works knows that if you are storing a bunch of things that need getting rid of you have a serious problem and are probably not doing so well as a business.
It is also not to “cheap out” by putting cheaper coloured LEGO elements inside the model. If that were the case, every filler colour would be black (one of the easiest colours to mix for injection moulding). Of course, prices on injection moulded components do fluctuate slightly depending on the colour, but unless it is really exotic, it is not normally a concern.
Wait, stop looking at those under-floor plates...
The real reason why, as many of you would have guessed, is to make the building experience better. With bigger models that have bricks which are 100% (or 95% in some cases, unfortunately) covered, this is an opportunity to use a brick that contrasts well with everything else in that bag, so it stands out.
Lowering the time to find bricks is one of the things that gets scrutinised intensely when designing a LEGO model. Along with considerations such as the number of elements per bag, elements that look too similar in the same bag, etc., this is another way of easing this process. A clear example of this would be in a Star Wars set where there are 99% grey wing plates. If you can put a bright yellow brick in there at some point, it will be much easier for the end user to find it than another grey brick…
21335 Motorised Lighthouse - Another good example of adding colour to predominantly grey bags.
“Does The LEGO Group think I’m stupid or something?” Well, sadly, we are all stupid. All this is backed up by extensive user research and observation, with both kids and adults. Everyone makes mistakes when building, or gets a bit too frustrated when they can't find the element they need, and a helping hand is required to remove this pain-point, whether people realise they have these issues or not.
This is not a “dumbing down” of LEGO sets, nor does it relate to children having shorter attention spans. The LEGO Group wants as many people to enjoy their product as possible, and if they can find and remove this friction, fewer people will bounce off them early in their LEGO career… and go on to buy many more LEGO sets from The LEGO Group in the future.
Unfortunately, as I alluded to before, these bright colours can sneak to the outside of the model and are visible for all to see and gawk at in the comments. From my own experience, these are as frustrating for the designer as the discerning end-user because, of course, we want our toys to be colour accurate to the source material. But these are toys after all, and have to be built by a wide range of people with different levels of competencies in building.
Just like any product, compromises have to be made to account for all potential users. This can be particularly frustrating with the infamous bright-coloured Technic pins, but if these were available in any colour you wanted, it would wreak havoc on the LEGO system as a whole - with all the different friction levels and slightly different geometries, especially once all thrown in the brick bucket.
75313 AT-AT
The alternative to all this would be something like every set being like 71426 Piranha Plant's bag 3. Everything has to be green, but there was nowhere to hide filler bricks, so there is a comically small number of elements in this bag (I assume these all had to be green for IP reasons).
From my own brickography, most of my sets are all killer, no filler. But when I did have to put bright-coloured filler bricks in, I liked to have fun with it. For instance, in 21341 Disney Hocus Pocus: The Sanderson Sisters' Cottage, I made the underfloor bricks bright green because in the film green light pours up from the floorboards. In 21345 Polaroid OneStep SX-70 Camera, I made all the interior colours based on the 6 colours in the stripe down the front (check out my TUBESIDE videos on both of these sets here aaaaand here).
There are other fun examples of Easter eggs in models using these filler bricks, such as the Polish flag inside 21340 Tales of the Space Age as a reference to the fan designer and the pink “brain” inside Brickheadz. This is also an opportunity for particularly savvy designers to pick bricks that they know are rare to give people more quantities in the aftermarket and bring down the price. Is this philanthropy, or insider trading? You decide!
Despite the inclusion of filler colours being purely utility, LEGO designers can flex their creative minds in subtle ways, even if barely anyone will ever notice.
What do you think? Is this a handy design consideration that helps people? Or maybe you would prefer LEGO sets to be like jigsaw puzzles where the hunt for the element is part of the experience?
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136 comments on this article
I love brightly coloured fillers. I use them in all my mocs. Makes it easier to see what parts you've used if you have to make changes. Also, my favourite colour is lilac but I don't usually have a need to use it, so I just hide it inside builds.
I'm a fan of it, partly for the ease of building, partly for the chance to get some more unusual colours from sets used as parts packs. But my favourite use of it is to differentiate left and right assemblies that are almost identical, like wings on a TIE fighter.
I guess another reason for not using black to fill is to avoid black blindness
I don't mind the process at all, I think it's very logical. However I do feel that filler being should be viewed differently when designing a several £100 set that is ultimately intended for display.
For example with the technic pins, and the idea they need to stay in certain colours to avoid confusion, that is more than fair and logical in a child's playset, but I feel on a model such as the UCS AT-AT, a £700 display piece that excuse doesn't carry and is a bit of a cop out in a way. It's very unlikely that that model is going to be dismantled and end up in a kid's parts bin any time soon (you'd hope anyway ??)
I understand it. And I appreciate what it does for the building experience.
My problem with this is that it limits making other builds with the parts. These colors are usually so bright and numerous that it will be a challenge to rebuild the model without having to use them as filler bricks again unless the stars allignfor what you're doing. And I'm not talking about drab models. The colors just clash, even in bright model alt builds.
This just makes the models more laser-focussed on the one build you're supposed to make and indicates you really shouldn't make anything else with the parts.
Older Designer models did it differently. These were all parts for a certain central theme. Filler parts were used for alt builds. But because all bricks needed to work for the theme, anything still complimented each other. So the filler bricks would just be one of the colors used for the rest of the set but there were enough colors to give you 1) variation and 2) options.
I'd rather see something like that again. You can have multiple colors that don't clash against those from the main build. Like putting brown under green. An alt build could use both because they go together. If you use green filled with pink and white and cyan... and yellow. What could you even build with it if those colors mentioned only have 3 parts each?
Oh, and sometimes it made it harder to find parts if there's too many colors. The Hidden Side school was hard to build without the bags (as I had to check the inventory first as it was a 2nd hand one). Why? Because there were so many bright colors it was like trying to find a dark bit amidst dark bits amidst a rainbow.
Just my two cents.
I think it's a good thing. I already have 100s of every (dark) bluish grey element. If they keep using different colors on the inside and sometimes put in a new color 2x4 (reddish orange plz), I'm happy.
I realliy like the use of pieces of multiple colours, when they serve structural purposes and are hidden once the set is finished.
It's as under the skin of even the most serious set there is a whole world of colourful imagination, like a sneak peek on the lego philosophy. Like the Cloud Cuckoo Land from the lego movie
Personally, for this reason when I'm buying pieces for my MOCs I always try to be as colourful as possible on the inner invisible parts. To be honest strange hues help save a few euros here and there, but sometimes I spend a bit more just to avoid using the same colours.
there always were filler colours, the trouble I got is more the colour choices- at times it clashes horribly (the Chinese garden- purple next to red and next to orange and so on. Great set but by God in the middle of the building process it looked horrible), and you got single piece in cyan or coral and nothing else. The Creator Pirate ship used only standard yellow, red, blue,white and green as fillers, in a consistent and sensible way- these are all colours that are very easy to use elsewhere, and in sufficient amounts to do so. When ther're literally one purple plate, 6 coral plates, one lime green brick, and so on, reusing these elsewhere is very hard.
Never had any problem with bright filler bricks. Like the article says, it makes them easier to find (having acquired 10305 second hand, nothing was still in the original bags, so everything was drowned under a sea of 1xWhatever grey bricks that I ended up having to completely separate out) but also makes the set easier to build. One nice obvious brick in the middle of everything makes it much easier to count where the others around it are supposed to go
Another good explanation again! Keep these articles coming!
Let me agree with this first:
"Well, sadly, we are all stupid. "
That out of the way: I like these articles; they shed new light from both sides. Never formed an opinion about this particular topic, but a fun read nevertheless (including the comments).
Now do stickers, please! I really am curious about what's going on with these. And I have an opinion about them.
I quite liked to hunt for bricks back when I had much more time to spare. I remember opening all the bricks from 10227 at once because it was so much more fun to build it this way (although significantly more frustrating as well). These days when I mostly build sets with my kid, I prefer not to need to do that. Having said that, I would rather the filler bricks were all in an easily reusable colour palette - just like they were in 10497 .
"It is also not to “cheap out” by putting cheaper coloured LEGO elements inside the model."
This answer misses my point about the colors inside the models.
The differences in the production costs of the parts are unlikely to be relevant. Much more important is the question: how much profit would Lego lose if colors were used that fetch high prices on Bricklink? So it's about opportunity costs.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not fundamentally against bright colors inside. But as someone who likes to build alternative models, it's important to me that the colors are inspiring and don't clash with the other colors in the set.
I think you can pinpoint the introduction of coulourblocking exactly to 1997. The UFO subtheme of space had suddenly yellow and blue bricks popping up in the interior of larger models; 1996 sets didn't have that yet.
I believe too many useless colours is why brick boxes sern't such a good deal anymore as they were: while a big selection of colours seems attractive at first, it totally breaks continuity when you're free building but the part you need is only available in the wrong colour.
@Klontjes:
Prints are used whenever Lego thinks a design ist reusable. Every unique design is solved with stickers to reduce storage and manufacturing costs (an exemption are rounded surfaces and parts for 4+). For better understanding, it helps to look up a video that shows the production of Lego bricks.
These comments about filler bricks being difficult for re-building are really interesting! I never thought of that aspect. Good point.
@HJB2810 Yes black is notoriously hard to search for which is also why brighter is better for filler colours.
@Klontjes I have not one but TWO articles on stickers on the way!
@legonard Can you elaborate on what you mean by opportunity costs? I'm gonna say the answer is "they haven't even considered that". The decision would have been made by the individual designers/design team, not a mandate from up top to include certain bricks over others. The line about Bricklink prices was just a joke. :P
Thank goodness they used to make 3L Technic pins in black and they aren't too hard to find. ;)
@jkb said:
"I think you can pinpoint the introduction of coulourblocking exactly to 1997. The UFO subtheme of space had suddenly yellow and blue bricks popping up in the interior of larger models; 1996 sets didn't have that yet.
I believe too many useless colours is why brick boxes sern't such a good deal anymore as they were: while a big selection of colours seems attractive at first, it totally breaks continuity when you're free building but the part you need is only available in the wrong colour."
This is why I'm a big fan of LEGO Classic sets like 11030 and 11027, the shapes are generic enough and you get decent quantities of each element in the different colours that you can make cool stuff out of them.
@poshhammer
Thank you for your answer!
Bricklink prices reflect the demand and utility of specific LEGO elements, indicating which color and design combinations are most valued by the community. The opportunity cost of using rare or distinctively colored bricks inside models is the potential revenue LEGO foregoes by not selling these sought-after pieces separately (e.g., as part of another set). My concern is that using such colors internally should enhance, not limit, their utility in alternative builds, ensuring they contribute to the overall appeal and versatility of the pieces.
As far as I understood, there is separate team at TLG responsible for the building experience and color coding, right?
That's a lot of words to still say: "our customers are too stupid to differentiate between a short black pin and a long black pin", so you have to make one of them blue ruining every model now where the blue pins stick out everywhere.
Just look at the Dune ornithopter which just looks ridiculous with all the color flashing through everywhere. Or the 700€ 75252 which is so badly colorful not only inside but where some ugly colors are also visible when finished. Who doesn't like an overly expensive collectors model which looks like cheap test model made out of random color. (But maybe Darth Vade was a fan of pink, purple and blue.)
If you would really care about customers you could simply ship two sets of pins/internal pieces, the idiots bag for people who are not the sharpest knife in the drawer and the full model matching color bag for all the others who can count to three.
PS. I just rebricked a 8285 and it was just a perfect building experience, no ugly colors, everything matching as expected.
@poshhammer the rebuilding argument is the main reason behind the anti colourful fillers debate. If you buy a Star Wars set nowadays, you can only build that one original model, and you are left with a rainbow after deconstruction that is not useful at all for any other starship.
The worst part of this is that Lego used to be about creativity, and nowadays it seems to target AOL model builders, totally abandoning the original concept behind Lego. Lego indeed abandons their own core concepts by using colored fillers.
@legonard said:
" @poshhammer
Thank you for your answer!
Bricklink prices reflect the demand and utility of specific LEGO elements, indicating which color and design combinations are most valued by the community. The opportunity cost of using rare or distinctively colored bricks inside models is the potential revenue LEGO foregoes by not selling these sought-after pieces separately (e.g., as part of another set). My concern is that using such colors internally should enhance, not limit, their utility in alternative builds, ensuring they contribute to the overall appeal and versatility of the pieces.
As far as I understood, there is separate team at TLG responsible for the building experience and color coding, right?"
No it is the same team, but it's a totally different team from whoever runs Bricklink. The building Experience team is only concerned with making the build experience as good as possible. Literally zero consideration is given to Bricklink prices. The only things that would be maybe considered would be exclusive Minifigures in sets like Star Wars (and this would come from another team that isnt BX), but no one is checking Bricklink prices for individual elements in specific colours when making design decisions.
2 reasons for the colored filler bricks
- Lego thinks the lego fans are stupid
- the rebuilding argument mentioned earlier, so you will buy more sets/loose bricks
Alternative building bricks brands have proven, that you don’t need colorful filler bricks to have a good experience. And specially if you are targeting the adult market as heavy as lego is doing, it makes no sense.
@poshhammer said:
" @legonard said:
" @poshhammer
Thank you for your answer!
Bricklink prices reflect the demand and utility of specific LEGO elements, indicating which color and design combinations are most valued by the community. The opportunity cost of using rare or distinctively colored bricks inside models is the potential revenue LEGO foregoes by not selling these sought-after pieces separately (e.g., as part of another set). My concern is that using such colors internally should enhance, not limit, their utility in alternative builds, ensuring they contribute to the overall appeal and versatility of the pieces.
As far as I understood, there is separate team at TLG responsible for the building experience and color coding, right?"
No it is the same team, but it's a totally different team from whoever runs Bricklink. The building Experience team is only concerned with making the build experience as good as possible. Literally zero consideration is given to Bricklink prices. The only things that would be maybe considered would be exclusive Minifigures in sets like Star Wars (and this would come from another team that isnt BX), but no one is checking Bricklink prices for individual elements in specific colours when making design decisions."
Thanks for the confirmation. That's important to know.
Bricklink prices are just a symptom for me showing that the current colour choices are not really a good thing for building MOCs.
@IgelCampus @HoodedOne To be fair, I do mention that people are stupid ;)
It is design considerations for the initial building experience that is prioritised and the bright coloured bricks in your bucket for rebuilds is an unfortunate side effect of this. No grand conspiracy to make you buy more sets (for that reason, at least). I don't work for them anymore so I have no reason to defend them.
Another interesting and fun read!
Personally, I am indifferent to the color of filler bricks. It certainly makes finding bricks when building sets a lot easier, especially larger Star Wars sets and it very rarely occurs that I really wished a piece would have come in a different color.
The brightly colored technic pins being visible on the outside, such as on the AT-AT, also don't bother me too much.
I am looking forward to your articles on stickers. I hope a lot of debates about stickers can finally be settled.
I knew they were used for ease of building, but I always like to think of them as hidden Easter eggs that only I and other AFOLs know about.
I did the reverse on 10283 Space Shuttle Discovery, replacing the olive green filler which I wanted for an MoC) with generic grey. I made a lot of mistakes on that build as a result, much more frustrating. That's made me appreciate the coloured fuller even more.
As for MoCs, go multi-coloured! I've noticed kids don't normally consider colour schemes when building stuff, they work with what they've got in all sorts of colours.
As for Technic pins, I also like the colour coding and don't want multicoloured pins. No one I know notices them at all in models, it seems to be just a few obsessive AFOLs.
Fascinating article. I think that most people would realise - and understand - that the practice is to help make sets more accessible to all levels of builders. Typically, a number of posts on here show that certain AFOLs only care about their building experience but that will never change.
And if modifying and/or using sets for MOCs is your main aim is replacing the bright coloured bricks with more suitable ones that much of an imposition?
@produktsumme said:
" @poshhammer the rebuilding argument is the main reason behind the anti colourful fillers debate. If you buy a Star Wars set nowadays, you can only build that one original model, and you are left with a rainbow after deconstruction that is not useful at all for any other starship.
The worst part of this is that Lego used to be about creativity, and nowadays it seems to target AOL model builders, totally abandoning the original concept behind Lego. Lego indeed abandons their own core concepts by using colored fillers."
This argument seems counterintuitive to me; you’re saying the extra colours limits what you can build, but surely the whole point of rebuilding means you can be imaginative and make something that uses those colours?
I like colour vomit. It makes a build more interesting.
"Lowering the time to find bricks is one of the things that gets scrutinised intensely when designing a LEGO model."
This is an aspect a lot of fan MOCs, and knock-off brick brands don't understand. I have a family member who bought some train model from knock-off bricks (while the tolerances of the bricks also have some issues with fit) the main issue has been that almost everything in the model is the same few shades of color, and to boot the instructions for the set are printed in black & white only showing color on the brick being placed at the exact step! I am always impressed with LEGO designers for making the build easy once you learn the "language" of how color bricks and other details work to speed things up.
@Brickalili said:
" @produktsumme said:
" @poshhammer the rebuilding argument is the main reason behind the anti colourful fillers debate. If you buy a Star Wars set nowadays, you can only build that one original model, and you are left with a rainbow after deconstruction that is not useful at all for any other starship.
The worst part of this is that Lego used to be about creativity, and nowadays it seems to target AOL model builders, totally abandoning the original concept behind Lego. Lego indeed abandons their own core concepts by using colored fillers."
This argument seems counterintuitive to me; you’re saying the extra colours limits what you can build, but surely the whole point of rebuilding means you can be imaginative and make something that uses those colours? "
I would say there is a difference between being creative and making everything look like Cloud Cuckoo Land. You need a healthy balance of versatile bricks that give you many options for building what you are imagining as a base. As well as this, you need the creative intuition to think outside the box for more exotic element usage to have those extra details and flourishes that make a MOC impressive.
I ironically like multi-coloured filler bricks, only because it can lead to snot bricks and/or other pieces being created in new colours.
I hate multi-coloured filler bricks for two reasons:
1. We end up with a disjointed mish-mash of bricks and pieces in colours that are used internally, thereby making it hard to MOC-build with them.
2. COLOUR BLEED. If you use multi-coloured pieces internally, and then cover them with bricks/pieces which feature a groove (for instance), then the multi-coloured pieces become visible through the gap. This is something I try to actively avoid when MOC-building and was VERY suprised to see it present in official sets i.e. the Scaled-Up LEGO Minifigure. In the same vain multi-coloured internal pieces are sometimes just openly visible behind foreground elements i.e. if you look at the Scaled-Up LEGO Minifigure's legs from the side, you can see the internal bricks used to build the middle section.
@DoonsterBuildsLego said:
"I did the reverse on 10283 Space Shuttle Discovery, replacing the olive green filler which I wanted for an MoC) with generic grey. I made a lot of mistakes on that build as a result, much more frustrating. That's made me appreciate the coloured fuller even more.
As for MoCs, go multi-coloured! I've noticed kids don't normally consider colour schemes when building stuff, they work with what they've got in all sorts of colours.
As for Technic pins, I also like the colour coding and don't want multicoloured pins. No one I know notices them at all in models, it seems to be just a few obsessive AFOLs."
When I was a kid I built with what I had in all sorts of colors because I had to, not because I wanted to. I wanted to be able to build things in uniform color schemes without all sorts of unwanted colors everywhere, but I didn't have enough parts for that. I suspect I wasn't the only kid with that attitude.
@Brickalili @poshhammer I get your point that having all those crazy colors can spur creativity,and indeed I like some of the filler stuff. But…let’s take an example, early Lego space, say Futuron. In those sets, there was not a single brick that could not go into creating Futuron-themed spaceships. I as a customer bought Futuron because I liked the look of, well, Futuron. So I could build an endless stream of trans blue, white and black starships, or bases, or whatever. That’s because every Futuron set expanded the amount of reusable bricks for that Theme by the full content of bricks in the box.
With fillers, that amount is severely degraded, to a degree where a ship has only, let’s say 30% of theme-correct hull/shell pieces, and the rest is useless.
Apart from that degraded number. Having just “shell” pieces limits my ability to create other things with that scheme as well.
I generally don't like it, but as long as it is invisible I can get over it. But there's no absolutely excuse for color puke that remains visible. Like that Dune set is a bad joke, right? The set actually already uses many of the pieces that would fix part of the problem, which makes it even more baffling....
I actually do like when there's a creative twist to it, not just random. That at least shows some thought behind it. Like with the 10497 , only using colors available at the time when the original was released. And I doubt that choice made the set too complicated for many people.
This, and everything else, except for one - TLG does correct. Or, at least, in a most right way since ever in their history. There're no abrupt things here. But, as I mentioned, there's one moment: basic brick and plate, 'studiness' of models is not smth to evade in the future. Because basic brick and plate create so much variety of models' shapes, and gives freedom to experiment, rather on meticulating how to create slick curve here and there. It's not needed that much, Lego is meant to look like Lego, not a scale 1:1 model
Ah, Brickset comments. Where random people insist they are smarter than the most successful toy company in history.
Having built Lego sets in every decade since the 1970s, I can assure you that modern sets are much, MUCH easier to build than they used to be. And that makes a substantial difference in the build experience for all ages and skill levels.
Most people get frustrated when they're building a set and can't find the piece they're looking for. Or they miss a piece and don't realize it until later and have to go back to fix it. Or they place something in the wrong place because the instructions were just a sea of black and gray bricks. Nobody likes to be frustrated, and every point of frustration is an opportunity for someone to give up on the build.
When it comes to design, everything is a compromise, but the value of easing the build experience should not be underestimated. If somebody quits halfway during their first Lego build out of frustration, they may never try again. "This just isn't for me," or "I'm bad at this."
Anything that helps kids or rookie builders reach the finish line is valuable to the entire community. Just look at the pride and sense of accomplishment of a rookie who has finished their first medium/large Lego build. I've seen that look on both kids and adults, and it's worth far, far more to me than extra gray or black bricks.
I figured the ease of build is the main reason. I also wondered early on if it did make things lower cost for TLG by being able to manufacture a longer run of a certain piece in a more rare color, thus making them more efficient. Maybe not if they do not have a large time transition between color runs (or multiple lines).
I love the colorful filler bricks, as long as they’re not visible in the finished model. I understand that sometimes it’s unavoidable, particularly with Technic pins.
I’m curious about one part of the explanation why the Technic pins only come in one color. (Sometimes two colors.) I got the impression that different colors can have mechanical properties that are different enough that they’re not really interchangeable for that type of part. Am I understanding that correctly?
I guess I never thought about that before, but it makes sense in retrospect. I mean, we’re always complaining about the infamous brown pieces that need to be replaced anytime you rebuild anything in that color!
It's absolutely okay to have some landmarks e.g. to figure out front and back, left and right, up and down orientations and there's also nothing wrong with having some hidden structural elements in a different unrelated color, but they are taking it way too far. That ultimately is why people have a problem with it. It's like LEGO continually underestimate people's intelligence.
@poshhammer said:
" @legonard said:
" @poshhammer
Thank you for your answer!
Bricklink prices reflect the demand and utility of specific LEGO elements, indicating which color and design combinations are most valued by the community. The opportunity cost of using rare or distinctively colored bricks inside models is the potential revenue LEGO foregoes by not selling these sought-after pieces separately (e.g., as part of another set). My concern is that using such colors internally should enhance, not limit, their utility in alternative builds, ensuring they contribute to the overall appeal and versatility of the pieces.
As far as I understood, there is separate team at TLG responsible for the building experience and color coding, right?"
No it is the same team, but it's a totally different team from whoever runs Bricklink. The building Experience team is only concerned with making the build experience as good as possible. Literally zero consideration is given to Bricklink prices. The only things that would be maybe considered would be exclusive Minifigures in sets like Star Wars (and this would come from another team that isnt BX), but no one is checking Bricklink prices for individual elements in specific colours when making design decisions."
Not necessarily, I remember hearing Markus saying he included a sand blue 1x1 plate in Ninjago city Markets to bring down its' prices since it had previously only been available in the 2003 knockturn alley.
He also has included other fun recolors in sets he designs specifically for the afol community, such as wolverine claws in green.
If you don't want coloured filler bricks spoiling up your MOCs, then don't use them on the outside. Use them as filler!
Lego has been teaching us how to build our own sets since forever, but we constantly fail to reach the same level as its designers do.
I guess that's why none of us work as Lego designers. We spend too much time complaining and not enough time observing.
One thing I don't see a lot of consideration being given to in this discussion is that the average Lego model has gotten bulkier and more complex since most of us were kids. I can't prove that scientifically or anything, but it seems intuitively obvious to me and is easiest to see with City sets, where you can often make direct comparisons and see that the "filler" pieces in a 2020s set are often in regions that straight up don't exist in Town equivalents such as the more built-up lower sections.
Anyway, my all-time favorite filler pieces are the hearts in 10283. I love you too, Discovery.
@JimBaggins said:
" @poshhammer said:
" @legonard said:
" @poshhammer
Thank you for your answer!
Bricklink prices reflect the demand and utility of specific LEGO elements, indicating which color and design combinations are most valued by the community. The opportunity cost of using rare or distinctively colored bricks inside models is the potential revenue LEGO foregoes by not selling these sought-after pieces separately (e.g., as part of another set). My concern is that using such colors internally should enhance, not limit, their utility in alternative builds, ensuring they contribute to the overall appeal and versatility of the pieces.
As far as I understood, there is separate team at TLG responsible for the building experience and color coding, right?"
No it is the same team, but it's a totally different team from whoever runs Bricklink. The building Experience team is only concerned with making the build experience as good as possible. Literally zero consideration is given to Bricklink prices. The only things that would be maybe considered would be exclusive Minifigures in sets like Star Wars (and this would come from another team that isnt BX), but no one is checking Bricklink prices for individual elements in specific colours when making design decisions."
Not necessarily, I remember hearing Markus saying he included a sand blue 1x1 plate in Ninjago city Markets to bring down its' prices since it had previously only been available in the 2003 knockturn alley.
He also has included other fun recolors in sets he designs specifically for the afol community, such as wolverine claws in green. "
Yes, and I mentioned that in the article about individual savvy AFOL designers. As a company goal, this is not considered as an objective and consulting Bricklink is not part of the design process.
@poshhammer, you forgot two crucial tricks. One is to color-code the construction of the model. 21103 famously used red and blue parts in the early construction to make it easier to keep track of the orientation of the chassis, because it starts out with rotational symmetry that ends long before you can make out which end is the front vs the back. The other is that parts in weird colors may be selected for use because those colors are already in production for another set, thereby saving the designer from wasting a slot. They may want to pick a contrasting color, but the most economical choices are decided by what other designers used in other sets.
This also might have been a perfect opportunity to mention the absolute worst pack job ever to come out of Billund, which was 10179. 80 unnumbered bags, sorted to make packing them more efficient and economical, but likely a rage-inducing nightmare for the end consumer when most bags are repeated 2-9x in that mix. And it also created a massive problem when they realized they'd shorted the nearly 5000pc set by two wedge plates that were no longer easily added to that arrangment. Unfortunately, this was long before your tenure, so I doubt you'd have much knowledge of that fiasco.
@HJB2810:
Black really would be the budget option. Black plastic is colored with carbon, an abundant and cheap material. Colors like yellow and orange (possibly red?) used to be colored with cadmium (also fairly cheap), but use of toxic heavy metal pigments got banned in the US in the late 90's/early 00's, and plastics manufacturers had to switch to more expensive pigment options. You can also recycle any color into black, since the carbon will overpower anything previously used to color your regrind. Note that I doubt TLG has much opportunity to use regrind. They won't use any post-consumer plastic at all, due to not having any way to know what it may have been contaminated with, and they have long ago started eliminating sprues and runners from their molds, so that only the finished part gets ejected after cooling.
@legonard:
The amount of money TLG earns from Bricklink is a rounding error on their annual profit/loss statement. You're talking about a company that grosses in the billions vs a site that may generate a few million in fees, much of which is going to be used to cover expenses of running the site. The amount of profit they'd realize from making decisions based on this is most easily expressed in terms of pennies.
@mhehir said:
"I love the colorful filler bricks, as long as they’re not visible in the finished model. I understand that sometimes it’s unavoidable, particularly with Technic pins.
I’m curious about one part of the explanation why the Technic pins only come in one color. (Sometimes two colors.) I got the impression that different colors can have mechanical properties that are different enough that they’re not really interchangeable for that type of part. Am I understanding that correctly?
I guess I never thought about that before, but it makes sense in retrospect. I mean, we’re always complaining about the infamous brown pieces that need to be replaced anytime you rebuild anything in that color!"
Sorry no it's not the colour that give it the friction, the geometry is slightly different between the different pins and the colour is there to denote it, is what I meant. But if all different Technic pins could come in all different colours, because they all look SO similar it would be a terrible experience testing each one to see if it has friction or not. The LEGO Group made the decision to lock the colours to one or two colours for the betterment of the building experience and the LEGO system as a whole. People can disagree if that is the right call but that is the reason they did it.
As an AFOL, I don't mind filler bricks in display models as long as they are completely unnoticeable from the outside at all angles, although the people who want color conformity for MOC making also have a point.
As for Technic pins, color locking them never made any sense to me, especially since we had more options in the past. 1x1 tiles are roughly the same size yet no one would insist on making all tiles the same color.
Even if LEGO insists on this for play sets targeted at young kids, they should really listen to their teen and adult fans who want more realistic display pieces. For example, it is absurd that the very expensive Ferrari Daytona SP3 42143 needs to have visible blue 3L pins everywhere, which really detract from the look. People who buy such large display sets are very unlikely to be confused between 2L and 3L black pins!
@poshhammer - thank you for the great interaction. It’s appreciated. The topic, though, is a bit too small, imo.
I suspect that most of us clearly understood why it was being done and have just learned to accept it, whether we like it or not. My preference would have been for you to go “harder to the paint” here and simply discuss the dumbing down of builds as a whole by LEGO. Then we could have expanded away from filler bricks and talked about numbered bags, bazillion step instruction books, etc.
I don’t mind differently colored filler bricks nor do I look forward to them. So long as they get hidden, they rarely impact my experience. I do like the Brickheadz brains, though. :o)
@PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer, you forgot two crucial tricks. One is to color-code the construction of the model. 21103 famously used red and blue parts in the early construction to make it easier to keep track of the orientation of the chassis, because it starts out with rotational symmetry that ends long before you can make out which end is the front vs the back. The other is that parts in weird colors may be selected for use because those colors are already in production for another set, thereby saving the designer from wasting a slot. They may want to pick a contrasting color, but the most economical choices are decided by what other designers used in other sets."
Good point about the orientation! Yes that is another one that falls under the build experience. :)
With the point about saving colour changes, you're sort of right but the motive is a bit off. They obviously wouldn't waste a colour change on a filler element. They can see what bricks in what colours are already in production so can pick anything from that list, so they SORT OF are picking them because other designers are using them, but only in that that's how the list is created, if that makes sense. :P
I love the line that says LEGO thinks we're all stupid, based on market research. I feel like I should be offended, but then again, I've made mistakes in quite a few fairly recent LEGO builds, so it's probably objectively true by now. I don't remember ever making mistakes as a kid, though, although that could be explained by the small number of colors and the larger pieces LEGO sets had back in the day.
@yellowcastle said:
" @poshhammer - thank you for the great interaction. It’s appreciated. The topic, though, is a bit too small, imo.
I suspect that most of us clearly understood why it was being done and have just learned to accept it, whether we like it or not. My preference would have been for you to go “harder to the paint” here and simply discuss the dumbing down of builds as a whole by LEGO. Then we could have expanded away from filler bricks and talked about numbered bags, bazillion step instruction books, etc.
I don’t mind differently colored filler bricks nor do I look forward to them. So long as they get hidden, they rarely impact my experience. I do like the Brickheadz brains, though. :o)"
That could be one for a future topic, absolutely, but I don't think you will like my take on it... ;)
@poshhammer said:
" @yellowcastle said:
" @poshhammer - thank you for the great interaction. It’s appreciated. The topic, though, is a bit too small, imo.
I suspect that most of us clearly understood why it was being done and have just learned to accept it, whether we like it or not. My preference would have been for you to go “harder to the paint” here and simply discuss the dumbing down of builds as a whole by LEGO. Then we could have expanded away from filler bricks and talked about numbered bags, bazillion step instruction books, etc.
I don’t mind differently colored filler bricks nor do I look forward to them. So long as they get hidden, they rarely impact my experience. I do like the Brickheadz brains, though. :o)"
That could be one for a future topic, absolutely, but I don't think you will like my take on it... ;)"
Oh, you know what they say about assume. :o)
I’m just a lumper, taxonomically speaking, so I like to look at “issues” from a higher vantage point than say….just filler bricks. But I understand that you can always dump out numbered bags and/or rip out instructions pages. :o)
More interesting to me would be “build stability.” Everyone always complains about what LEGO does to Ideas sets and then what they didn’t do to BLDP sets…
@jkb:
Prints are also used on parts where stickers won't adhere well (compound curves), where play is dependant on them (facial features for Chima's Legend Beasts models), where application of the stickers is rage-inducingly frustrating (SW UCS plaques going forward), and sometimes when the licensing partner insists on a cleaner presentation (certain brand logos in Speed Champions). And yes, 4+ is a line that they consciously shifted to be prints-only because they know that the target market is still developing fine motor skills, and eliminating stickers allows kids to build without the assistance of an adult or older sibling. And it is embarassing when people well above the age of adulthood come here and whinge about how they have to apply stickers to expensive D2C sets while literal toddlers don't have to.
@HoodedOne:
Alternative building brands haven't overtaken Hasbro or Mattel to become the largest toy manufacturer in the world. Kind of speaks to the different degrees of success they've achieved, when TLG is no longer being compared to other toy companies, but instead to entertainment empires like Disney.
@CT8088:
As stated in the article, people are stupid. Questions will possibly be answered, but in no way will any of these articles stop certain people from complaining about how they think it would be just as easy to use prints as stickers. It's an immutable law of the universe at this point.
@DoonsterBuildsLego:
I think the argument on Technic pins is going to shift dramatically based on the size of the model you're building, and also on how you're using those pins. When you're talking about a flagship Technic set that could crush a small child, Technic pins aren't even visible in most pictures because they're so tiny relative to the model. However, when I was building SW characters with the original Toa Mata parts in the early 00's, you're talking about characters that range from maybe 4-8" in total height. Sometimes I used Technic pins aesthetically, like using half-pins for IG-88's eyes, or various blasters that incorporated a fully-exposed 2L friction pin as part of the barrel. In cases like those, color is absolutely critical, and many of my element choices were made solely based on colors that were available. I would buy black friction 2L axle-pins by the hundred in those days, and would not be at all surprised if I currently own over 1000 total.
However, during the construction of even a flagship Technic set, as a builder, you're going to be focused on a tiny portion of the whole model at any given moment, and those Technic connectors are going to appear outsized in comparison. I know they do sometimes still break colorlocks on those parts, but I'm curious where the cutoff is. Sets like 8558 used those same friction axle-pins in white because they were representing teeth, with half of each part fully exposed. Even now, I'd expect those would have been produced in white, but I don't know all of the criteria that would go into making that decision. I mean, it could even come down to a licensing partner refusing to sign off on the final design, as reportedly happened with 76051, forcing them to break the most restrictive colorlocking of all time, with a recolored Mixel joint.
@poshhammer said:
" @PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer, you forgot two crucial tricks. One is to color-code the construction of the model. 21103 famously used red and blue parts in the early construction to make it easier to keep track of the orientation of the chassis, because it starts out with rotational symmetry that ends long before you can make out which end is the front vs the back. The other is that parts in weird colors may be selected for use because those colors are already in production for another set, thereby saving the designer from wasting a slot. They may want to pick a contrasting color, but the most economical choices are decided by what other designers used in other sets."
Good point about the orientation! Yes that is another one that falls under the build experience. :)
With the point about saving colour changes, you're sort of right but the motive is a bit off. They obviously wouldn't waste a colour change on a filler element. They can see what bricks in what colours are already in production so can pick anything from that list, so they SORT OF are picking them because other designers are using them, but only in that that's how the list is created, if that makes sense. :P"
That's kind of what I was trying to say. I have seen designers admit that they chose a fresh recolor (thereby using up a precious slot on a filler part) because they knew the fan community would appreciate it. And a perfect example of this is the baseplates under the Modulars. In nearly every Modular, the entire baseplate seems to be completely covered up fairly soon in the build process, so economically it would make sense to keep the baseplates all the same color. That's not what has happened, though. Reddish-brown under 10246, and red (for the first time in 35 years) under 10232 were one-offs. Light-bley under 10243 has appeared sporadically (including under two other Modulars), but may have been another conscious bone to the AFOL community. These days you don't see that as much, with Modulars rotating between light-bley, dark-bley, or tan, with a single instance in green.
I find it interesting that a good number of those who dislike filler bricks seem to hail from Germany. Not trying to throw shade(s of gray?), just observing. My favorite use of filler bricks is 76900; at one point mid-build, you'll see a Swedish flag made of them. I also appreciate that, ignoring the change to gray, 10497 only used colors available at the time of 497/928's release, even in the filler areas.
@GrosPanda1979 said:
"If you use multi-coloured pieces internally, and then cover them with bricks/pieces which feature a groove (for instance), then the multi-coloured pieces become visible through the gap. This is something I try to actively avoid when MOC-building and was VERY suprised to see it present in official sets i.e. the Scaled-Up LEGO Minifigure. In the same vain multi-coloured internal pieces are sometimes just openly visible behind foreground elements i.e. if you look at the Scaled-Up LEGO Minifigure's legs from the side, you can see the internal bricks used to build the middle section."
I went over and looked at my 40649 after reading your comment and had to pick it up and look into the joint where the legs meet the hips (which is a shadowy area, anyway) to even see what you were talking about. Yes, it isn't uniform blue in that area, but the non-blue parts there are also not something that's not going to be visible to a casual glance; as I said, I had to pick the model up and look into a shadowy area to even notice. So this is far from the worst case.
@poshhammer
Thank you for providing another objective view into LEGO design decisions. I find your articles and videos to be very interesting and quite funny. Love the humor!
Doesn't it have a purpose according to the designers.
To make it easier to build. Like they're guide bricks for the interior of the model.
It's part of Lego's very successful business model.
Every set is a potential FIRST TIME set for a new customer.
They want every set to be as easy as possible and enjoyable to build to keep this new customer coming back for more.
It's a sound and profitable practice.
@legoDad42 said:
"Doesn't it have a purpose according to the designers.
To make it easier to build. Like they're guide bricks for the interior of the model.
It's part of Lego's very successful business model.
Every set is a potential FIRST TIME set for a new customer.
They want every set to be as easy as possible and enjoyable to build to keep this new customer coming back for more.
It's a sound and profitable practice."
Correct!
People on Brickset seem to think that being profit driven and wanting the best product they can make are completely different things. But The LEGO Group is made up of thousands of different people with different priorities - some want to make coolest toys, some want to make the most money for the company. The alignment of their different micro-goals is what makes the company so successful.
@PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer said:
" @PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer, you forgot two crucial tricks. One is to color-code the construction of the model. 21103 famously used red and blue parts in the early construction to make it easier to keep track of the orientation of the chassis, because it starts out with rotational symmetry that ends long before you can make out which end is the front vs the back. The other is that parts in weird colors may be selected for use because those colors are already in production for another set, thereby saving the designer from wasting a slot. They may want to pick a contrasting color, but the most economical choices are decided by what other designers used in other sets."
Good point about the orientation! Yes that is another one that falls under the build experience. :)
With the point about saving colour changes, you're sort of right but the motive is a bit off. They obviously wouldn't waste a colour change on a filler element. They can see what bricks in what colours are already in production so can pick anything from that list, so they SORT OF are picking them because other designers are using them, but only in that that's how the list is created, if that makes sense. :P"
That's kind of what I was trying to say. I have seen designers admit that they chose a fresh recolor (thereby using up a precious slot on a filler part) because they knew the fan community would appreciate it. And a perfect example of this is the baseplates under the Modulars. In nearly every Modular, the entire baseplate seems to be completely covered up fairly soon in the build process, so economically it would make sense to keep the baseplates all the same color. That's not what has happened, though. Reddish-brown under 10246, and red (for the first time in 35 years) under 10232 were one-offs. Light-bley under 10243 has appeared sporadically (including under two other Modulars), but may have been another conscious bone to the AFOL community. These days you don't see that as much, with Modulars rotating between light-bley, dark-bley, or tan, with a single instance in green."
Modulars are their own special thing. If a designer wants to use a colour change on a baseplate then that's their mistake to make... ;)
Going off subject but maybe something for another article, are Lego inflating the piece count these days so they can say this set has this many pieces. The one that comes to mind for me is 10326 Natural History Museum. They make a point of it being the biggest modular by piece count, if you look at the tile floor there ate lots of 2x1 tiles used where they could have used 2x2 tiles. Using 2x2 tiles would have meant it had a lower piece count than 10255 Assembly Square.
@poshhammer said:"Modulars are their own special thing. If a designer wants to use a colour change on a baseplate then that's their mistake to make... ;)"
That’s funny. :o)
A few of the sets (may have been the USC AT-AT) they were important so that I knew the correct rotation of the elements of the build.
@LegoStevieG said:
"Going off subject but maybe something for another article, are Lego inflating the piece count these days so they can say this set has this many pieces. The one that comes to mind for me is 10326 Natural History Museum. They make a point of it being the biggest modular by piece count, if you look at the tile floor there ate lots of 2x1 tiles used where they could have used 2x2 tiles. Using 2x2 tiles would have meant it had a lower piece count than 10255 Assembly Square."
I myself don’t care about these type set superlatives. And while I absolutely suspect that some designs are artificially inflated by greeebles and some extraneous builds (contrary to what we’re told), I sincerely doubt the idea of it affecting piece types. And in contrast, I prefer having more 1x2 tiles as they have more utility for me than the 2x2 tiles. It would seem more likely that it was either due to existing use of the 1x2 in the set or that it wasn’t available in 2x2 / would have used up one of their design allotments. I don’t have this modular yet so I may not be visualizing correctly.
@poshhammer - I know this isn’t a Reddit, but I’d be curious to know what set you (as well as @Huw and team) most recently bought with your own money and how you liked it. :o)
As someone with a decent (but not huge) collection of bricks, I appreciate these pieces in sometimes rarer colors. I have enough pieces in grey or whatever to replace it as I'm building and I now have a new piece in a color I didn't have. I think the 'rebuilding' argument against the practice only applies to people who have fewer bricks in their collections. This means that, ironically, the people most affected for rebuilding in the short term are the ones for whom the 'ease of building' argument is most necessary, i.e. newer builders. This is not an argument for or against, simply an observation.
Our friends in Germany seem to really be struggling with this topic.
@BJNemeth:
There are definitely people who lament that instructions are now easier to follow, and look back fondly on the days when they had to really struggle to figure out how to build fairly basic sets. That just proves that they're masochists. I built 7191, and ended up being short a single 1x1 round plate in old dark-grey. I spent half an hour looking for that part, and never found it, not even after completing the build with the spare in old light-grey subbed in for the missing one. I can say quite truthfully that this experience was not enjoyable in even the slightest degree. If that happened to someone with their first set, even if the part _was_ there, that's not just a lost customer at that point. That's someone who's going to badmouth the company to their friends and family, and possibly kill even more sales opportunities.
@mhehir:
Different materials certainly had different mechanical properties. ABS was strong, PC was more prone to cracking (especially if exposed to extreme temperature changes while built), and PE is flexible. Different colors...not so much, I'd say. The only time we've heard of where color was critical to the mechanical peformance of a part was the Mixel joints (more specifically, the Mixel sockets). The exterior of the sockets had to fit within system but combined with an existing towball design so they could expand the range of parts that could be used for that half of the assembly. This resulted in the socket walls being rather thin. They also needed to be stiff enough to be able to maintain poses even after rough play, so the tolerances on these parts was razor thin compared to, say, a basic 2x4 brick. What they said was that changing the color affected how the joints performed.
I don't remember if specific issues were cited, but it could have resulted in joints that were too loose with one color, or that were too tight with another. Some colors may have been so tight, or so much less durable, that the sockets would crack open, which is the worst possible outcome. We've seen one of the Mixel ball joints get recolored, but only to the only other color that's ever been approved for use in any Mixel joint element. We've never seen the sockets themselves get recolored, not even to the other shade of bley (though we have seen proof that one Mixel socket got produced in reddish-brown. It's just never been released in any sets in that color.
@Andrusi:
For proof that modern sets are definitely more complex and bulkier, all you have to do is compare the piece counts vs the size of the completed build, or look at the set inventories. Sets from 40 years ago used parts that were a lot chunkier. Small pieces counts went a long way. Now, the space occupied by a single 2x4 brick will often be no less than half a dozen parts, but the finished design looks way more detailed because of how those parts are used. I mean, look at Eldorado Fortress. 6276 used a single massive piece to "build" the plateau that the fortress sits on. 10320 takes six pages, 20 steps, and 81pcs just to recreate the cobblestone ramp on the original baseplate.
And the people who complain about the instructions being too simple complain about the sets not being simple enough. Did I mention that this just proves they were masochists?
@produktsumme said:
" @Brickalili @poshhammer I get your point that having all those crazy colors can spur creativity,and indeed I like some of the filler stuff. But…let’s take an example, early Lego space, say Futuron. In those sets, there was not a single brick that could not go into creating Futuron-themed spaceships. I as a customer bought Futuron because I liked the look of, well, Futuron. So I could build an endless stream of trans blue, white and black starships, or bases, or whatever. That’s because every Futuron set expanded the amount of reusable bricks for that Theme by the full content of bricks in the box.
With fillers, that amount is severely degraded, to a degree where a ship has only, let’s say 30% of theme-correct hull/shell pieces, and the rest is useless.
Apart from that degraded number. Having just “shell” pieces limits my ability to create other things with that scheme as well."
I mean you’re saying this to the guy who, as a kid, bulked up his Ice Planet fleet by building them spaceships out of red and yellow bricks (I just had the most of them lying around spare). If I can build -Ice- Planet ships in the colours of -fire- I’m pretty sure a few filler bricks adding colour aren’t going to affect the majority of people’s MOCing :D
But I do see your point that if you want to stick to the aesthetics of the thing you’re building, extra colours maybe aren’t what you need, but to that I point out that they’re filler. It was easy enough hiding them in the proper build, is it really going to be so hard to hide them in whatever you build it into?
@yellowcastle said:
" @poshhammer said:"Modulars are their own special thing. If a designer wants to use a colour change on a baseplate then that's their mistake to make... ;)"
That’s funny. :o)"
On the contrary, the only mistake made was me not buying more of the red ones when they were available on LUGBulk. I currently only have four left, and even those are being used to store berms that I had to set up on our first PF layout.
It makes sense, especially with the problems LEGO instructions have had with trying to tell different shade of part like dark gray vs black, I have had to backtrack a few times on later era builds because i though I had to use a 2x3 black plate when it actually was a 2x3 dark gray plate.
Also as a unique looking part vs the tons of others that likely match the viewer facing bits is a good design decision. As much as it was far easier to build older 80's sets, due to the lack of color pallet, it was still hard to count studs for some of those builds and having to go back and then fix whatever you flubbed for steps (or pages) ago. I mean 497 Galaxy Explorer was a headache if you missed a stud placing.
@LegoStevieG said:
"Going off subject but maybe something for another article, are Lego inflating the piece count these days so they can say this set has this many pieces. The one that comes to mind for me is 10326 Natural History Museum. They make a point of it being the biggest modular by piece count, if you look at the tile floor there ate lots of 2x1 tiles used where they could have used 2x2 tiles. Using 2x2 tiles would have meant it had a lower piece count than 10255 Assembly Square."
Got an article cooking on this subject... [eyes emoji]
@PurpleDave said:
" @BJNemeth:
There are definitely people who lament that instructions are now easier to follow, and look back fondly on the days when they had to really struggle to figure out how to build fairly basic sets. That just proves that they're masochists. I built 7191, and ended up being short a single 1x1 round plate in old dark-grey. I spent half an hour looking for that part, and never found it, not even after completing the build with the spare in old light-grey subbed in for the missing one. I can say quite truthfully that this experience was not enjoyable in even the slightest degree. If that happened to someone with their first set, even if the part _was_ there, that's not just a lost customer at that point. That's someone who's going to badmouth the company to their friends and family, and possibly kill even more sales opportunities."
I buy a lot of sets on Amazon that are made by an alternate manufacturer that absolutely does not care about the ease or user-friendliness of the build experience. Most of the pieces are the same color, etc. Without fail, the Amazon customer reviews for these products have a large number of complaints about missing pieces. I have personally bought over 50 sets from this manufacturer and have never had a single missing piece. I would bet anything that these less experienced users are just using the wrong pieces because of how similar the pieces look and how condensed the instructions are. Then once they get to the step where they need a piece that they misused earlier, they think it's missing and bam, negative review.
@poshhammer said:
" @LegoStevieG said:
"Going off subject but maybe something for another article, are Lego inflating the piece count these days so they can say this set has this many pieces. The one that comes to mind for me is 10326 Natural History Museum. They make a point of it being the biggest modular by piece count, if you look at the tile floor there ate lots of 2x1 tiles used where they could have used 2x2 tiles. Using 2x2 tiles would have meant it had a lower piece count than 10255 Assembly Square."
Got an article cooking on this subject... [eyes emoji] "
Is it to get more money from those people who only look at piece counts when determining if a set is worth the price? You often see comments here from people complaining that sets are too expensive because other sets with more pieces are cheaper, but they don't take into account that those cheaper sets use more smaller pieces.
@DoonsterBuildsLego said:
"I did the reverse on 10283 Space Shuttle Discovery, replacing the olive green filler which I wanted for an MoC) with generic grey. I made a lot of mistakes on that build as a result, much more frustrating. That's made me appreciate the coloured fuller even more.
As for MoCs, go multi-coloured! I've noticed kids don't normally consider colour schemes when building stuff, they work with what they've got in all sorts of colours.
As for Technic pins, I also like the colour coding and don't want multicoloured pins. No one I know notices them at all in models, it seems to be just a few obsessive AFOLs."
Further, those olive-coloured sections are also present in the real shuttles, so that wasn't even a colour substitution in the set design.
I consider myself an expert builder and am blessed with near perfect eyesight. I am therefore in the lucky situation that I don't need building aids of any kind. I have even built BlueBrixx sets with several thousands of pieces and not a single numbered bag of parts. I simply don't mind a challenge.
I know many people nowadays have either not the same patience or abilities as myself and I know that LEGO wants to sell sets to such people as well, and I don't have a problem with that.
I also have over half a million pieces, so reusability of odd coloured pieces in sets isn't an issue for me either.
Summing up, from my point of view LEGO can stuff as many rainbow coloured pieces into their sets as they like in order to cater to the lowest common denominator and not leave anyone with enough money behind.
The only BUT is that imho those rainbow pieces must not be seen at all in the finished set, and too often that is not the case. Sometimes those pieces shine through a little, like when adjoining pieces don't cover the edges properly, sometimes the odd coloured pieces are blatantly obvious from a certain angle or even from several. That's when it becomes a deal breaker for me and I refuse to buy such a set. After all I don't need every set. Plus there's plenty of alternatives out there, both in LEGO's own lineup as well as from other manufacturers.
"This is not a “dumbing down” of LEGO sets, nor does it relate to children having shorter attention spans. The LEGO Group wants as many people to enjoy their product as possible, and if they can find and remove this friction, fewer people will bounce off them early in their LEGO career… and go on to buy many more LEGO sets from The LEGO Group in the future."
When I read a statement like this I wonder
a) how LEGO economically survived the Eighties and
b) how we as kids managed to enjoy building with LEGO as much as we did and for as long as we did.
We must indeed have been true heroes ;-)
Note: of course it is "dumbing down" when instruction manuals now are the size of old phone directories because most steps only add a single piece, while back when I was a kid you had by comparison only small instruction "leaflets" even for the largest of sets.
I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly
@Zink said:
" @ShinyBidoof said:
"Fascinating article. I think that most people would realise - and understand - that the practice is to help make sets more accessible to all levels of builders. Typically, a number of posts on here show that certain AFOLs only care about their building experience but that will never change.
And if modifying and/or using sets for MOCs is your main aim is replacing the bright coloured bricks with more suitable ones that much of an imposition?"
I take personal offense to this. We are talking about a children's toy. I grew up poor and only had very limited supplies of lego. Yes it is a great imposition to many people. To most people in lego's target customer base, I'd argue."
I can't work out if I'm being whooshed here but are you saying that most people in Lego's target base are people who modify sets or use the pieces for MOCs?
@poshhammer said:
"I would say there is a difference between being creative and making everything look like Cloud Cuckoo Land. You need a healthy balance of versatile bricks that give you many options for building what you are imagining as a base. As well as this, you need the creative intuition to think outside the box for more exotic element usage to have those extra details and flourishes that make a MOC impressive. "
This is an aspect of Lego design that I wish was explored upon more. There's this magic in official sets: details but not too many, colorful but not wacky, and most MOCs fail to recreate that spark that official sets have. If you were looking on even more article ideas, your perception on this would be very welcomed!
Otherwise, great read as always. I love those articles because they debunk a lot of myths present in the fandom, while also reminding us all that the design side is very human. Keep up the excellent work!
@illennium:
Well, in my case, it actually was missing. I've been building since the late 70's, and have plenty of experience, hence why I knew I could sub in the inevitable spare of the light-grey one until the dark-grey one surfaced. It never did, and I didn't have any light-grey left over. There are ten dark-grey used in the build, and none of the light-grey ones get used until after you've run out of dark-grey. I checked every part bag to make sure it didn't get stuck in a corner. I checked the floor, including around every table and chair leg. It just wasn't there.
But in the end, my experience was no different than someone else would have had if they simply mixed up the colors. I mean, I still have that happen a lot, where I'm building along and suddenly can't find a part until I realize I'm looking for the wrong shade of bley. That usually only takes a few seconds to sort out, though, because it's pretty much instinct to switch over to looking for the same shape in similar colors by now.
I didn't have trouble deciphering the instructions of my childhood. I absolutely understand that other people do (I had college friends who had cleared the admissions bar for an expensive private school who still found instructions in the 90's to be difficult to follow). I don't understand those who look back fondly on that experience, and I definitely don't understand the gatekeeping they continue to participate in.
@AustinPowers:
I've been wearing glasses since the 3rd grade, and I really need to get my prescription updated. I don't build sets for the experience anymore. I build them for the model, and I don't want that process to get dragged out unnecessarily. There are sets that I never could have designed on my own, but 10018 is probably the only set they've released that I would have had a real struggle to build from instructions (and that's only because I've heard the instructions were hands down the worst ever produced). I built 21330 in about six hours at one of our public displays (while pausing to answer questions). 10179 is the only set I've had to split between two days (excluding Advent Calendars where it's part of the tradition), and that was more due to the terrible pack job, and the fact that I was getting nausea and a headache from the smell of the freshly-printed instruction tome. I could _probably_ build 75192 in a single day. If people want challenges, they should get into building MOCs.
I must not even be in a minority but I must be the only one thinking like this: I am definitely against any sorts of colour vomit and discordant colours showing all over the place when they should not. Even if they are not visible, I like coherence in the colour blocking of a model and/or moc. Unfortunately I don't have the choice as Lego forces this upon me. I do however have a large quantity of 3L black friction pins.
I am building a large moc now (15k+ pieces) it has different (hidden) colours but not vomit: one layer is (let's say) tan, the (hidden)layer on top is ALL light grey (which contrast well enough) and then back to all tan. If I need yet another layer, it will be all light grey again - no need to pick another colour - the colour change is just for contrast so you know where you are; especially in very large mocs.
One of the main thing for which I am strongly in favour: in the early 80s, I was deeply into Lego Technic sets. To me, these sets were great because you needed: (1) observation skills, (2) attention to details, (3) patience and (4) perseverance. The way I used to build a set was always the same: open ALL bags and dump the lot in a big pile. Then sift through the lot and try to find what you are looking for - there were only two colours of pins back then (black and light grey). Often times, a smaller part would be hidden under a larger part and would move together when I was swiping through the pile. You also had to spend quite a bit of time looking at the instructions making sure you put all the parts at the right place (they were not highlighted in a different colour back then.
To me, a toy is a tool kids use to develop aptitudes/skills that will help them in the future. All the dumbing down that Lego does to reduce the so-called 'friction points' make the toy less interesting as a developmental tool for kids - and we see that every day: low attention-span, easily discouraged, anxiety for just about everything under the sun, etc. (Of course, not all the young kids are like that - I'm sure you know some kids who have no problems at all.)
Very interesting article, and even more interesting comment thread!
The questions that comes to my mind are in regard to parts production inventory. I could imagine that there are a significant number of LEGO staff devoted to the single subject of parts inventory logistics. How many different elements are in production at any given time? Is the fact that some sets have two or more bags for a single number due to them being produced in different factories? Are changes in retirement dates based partly on changes in upcoming product portfolios that affect parts inventories? What kind of budgets are given to designers in terms of new elements that can be created or existing elements recolored? I can imagine that last question could depend on factors such as theme, size, exclusivity, etc.
These questions probably could be the basis for another big article! :)
(Or has there already been such an article?)
@AustinPowers said:
""This is not a “dumbing down” of LEGO sets, nor does it relate to children having shorter attention spans. The LEGO Group wants as many people to enjoy their product as possible, and if they can find and remove this friction, fewer people will bounce off them early in their LEGO career… and go on to buy many more LEGO sets from The LEGO Group in the future."
When I read a statement like this I wonder
a) how LEGO economically survived the Eighties and
b) how we as kids managed to enjoy building with LEGO as much as we did and for as long as we did.
We must indeed have been true heroes ;-)
Note: of course it is "dumbing down" when instruction manuals now are the size of old phone directories because most steps only add a single piece, while back when I was a kid you had by comparison only small instruction "leaflets" even for the largest of sets. "
Definitely dumbing down:
You can find instruction books where the only thing happening is the rotation of the model - no parts added - just using another page to show the model from a different angle (with a new number on the top left/right). So much 'friction' there, it had to be removed...
@HOBBES said:
"I must not even be in a minority but I must be the only one thinking like this: I am definitely against any sorts of colour vomit and discordant colours showing all over the place when they should not. Even if they are not visible, I like coherence in the colour blocking of a model and/or moc. Unfortunately I don't have the choice as Lego forces this upon me. I do however have a large quantity of 3L black friction pins.
I am building a large moc now (15k+ pieces) it has different (hidden) colours but not vomit: one layer is (let's say) tan, the (hidden)layer on top is ALL light grey (which contrast well enough) and then back to all tan. If I need yet another layer, it will be all light grey again - no need to pick another colour - the colour change is just for contrast so you know where you are; especially in very large mocs.
One of the main thing for which I am strongly in favour: in the early 80s, I was deeply into Lego Technic sets. To me, these sets were great because you needed: (1) observation skills, (2) attention to details, (3) patience and (4) perseverance. The way I used to build a set was always the same: open ALL bags and dump the lot in a big pile. Then sift through the lot and try to find what you are looking for - there were only two colours of pins back then (black and light grey). Often times, a smaller part would be hidden under a larger part and would move together when I was swiping through the pile. You also had to spend quite a bit of time looking at the instructions making sure you put all the parts at the right place (they were not highlighted in a different colour back then.
To me, a toy is a tool kids use to develop aptitudes/skills that will help them in the future. All the dumbing down that Lego does to reduce the so-called 'friction points' make the toy less interesting as a developmental tool for kids - and we see that every day: low attention-span, easily discouraged, anxiety for just about everything under the sun, etc. (Of course, not all the young kids are like that - I'm sure you know some kids who have no problems at all.) "
The thing is that if there's TOO much friction, the majority of kids will simply stop buying Lego. That's what you get from instructions like those in older years—a smaller number of fans who stuck with Lego, giving them oversized egos that make them think their generation was superior to modern kids even if their peers who washed out of the hobby are obvious counterexamples.
When I was a kid I had a Lego-themed birthday party and one thing that stuck with me was how much trouble a lot of my peers had putting together simple Throwbots sets. Having more experience and better spatial reasoning may have made the building experience easier for me individually, but it was also extremely isolating being one of the few kids in my age group who enjoyed that activity and stayed interested in Lego in the long term. I'd much rather have Lego be something everyone can enjoy, so that they can improve their building skill gradually as they gain more experience, rather than something "skill-gated" that makes it so that anyone who doesn't already have those skills has a garbage experience.
"Note: of course it is "dumbing down" when instruction manuals now are the size of old phone directories because most steps only add a single piece, while back when I was a kid you had by comparison only small instruction "leaflets" even for the largest of sets."
It is no way dumbing down today for kids. The sets we had in the 70s, 80s were super simple stacking of bricks and plates.
Today we have tons of Lego Robotic clubs. Competing and learning all the way.
ALL inspired to build by sets the past 20 years.
"When I was a kid I had a Lego-themed birthday party and one thing that stuck with me was how much trouble a lot of my peers had putting together simple Throwbots sets.
Having more experience and better spatial reasoning may have made the building experience easier for me individually, but it was also extremely isolating being one of the few kids in my age group who enjoyed that activity and stayed interested in Lego in the long term.
I'd much rather have Lego be something everyone can enjoy, so that they can improve their building skill gradually as they gain more experience, rather than something "skill-gated" that makes it so that anyone who doesn't already have those skills has a garbage experience."
Boom, spot on. No-skill gate. That's for the talented moc builders.
Lego is for everyone to enjoy through the years.
The ultimate goal with ANY Lego set is to NOT keep it as is, but as you gain building experience you're supposed to take apart the model and build something new.
That's why no glue like a traditional model kit.
They're first and foremost building blocks. Not a model kit to cut, sand, prime, paint and glue.
I don't have a particular issue with it on new sets. But it is a problem when trying to Bricklink together a set of MOC (from e.g. Rebrickable) as it isn't always obvious which parts can be 'any' color vs. not. And the specific color choices can be hard to find or expensive on the aftermarket.
I like the fact that they avoid color uniformity on the unseeable interiors of builds. I don't always like their choices for filler colors - I often which they were more complementary to the model's main palette.
As for technic pin and axle colors, there is a clear tradeoff between buildability and appearance, and Lego has made a decision. First, there is the issue of parts with similar appearance but different technic behavior. Examples include:
red vs. DSG 8-tooth gears: red ones slide
blue vs. MSG pin w/ axle: blue have friction
blue vs. tan 3M pin: blue have friction
black vs. MSG 2M pin: black have friction
In cases like those it is very important not to have 2 physically different parts with the same color and shape, or builders would go nuts.
Next, there is the issue of identifiability. I find that it helps when black axles are even-length and MSG are odd, for example, because otherwise distinguishing 6M from 7M, or 9M from 10M would be a real pita-bread-style nuisance. Would I prefer more muted technic colors? Sure, some of the time. But I can also accept the challenge of trying to modify my design so that I can use a technic piece with the color I want it to have.
@poshhammer said:
" @mhehir said:
"I love the colorful filler bricks, as long as they’re not visible in the finished model. I understand that sometimes it’s unavoidable, particularly with Technic pins.
I’m curious about one part of the explanation why the Technic pins only come in one color. (Sometimes two colors.) I got the impression that different colors can have mechanical properties that are different enough that they’re not really interchangeable for that type of part. Am I understanding that correctly?
I guess I never thought about that before, but it makes sense in retrospect. I mean, we’re always complaining about the infamous brown pieces that need to be replaced anytime you rebuild anything in that color!"
Sorry no it's not the colour that give it the friction, the geometry is slightly different between the different pins and the colour is there to denote it, is what I meant. But if all different Technic pins could come in all different colours, because they all look SO similar it would be a terrible experience testing each one to see if it has friction or not. The LEGO Group made the decision to lock the colours to one or two colours for the betterment of the building experience and the LEGO system as a whole. People can disagree if that is the right call but that is the reason they did it."
I appreciate the response, and I *love* this type of article on Brickset. And I realize you don’t work for LEGO anymore, so this is not me complaining. More like me trying to understand the decision making process at LEGO, weirdly mixed in with me thinking about polymer chemistry and the effects that different dyes have on the polymer matrix.
I guess I don’t understand the argument that Technic pins can’t be made in different colors because they all look so similar to each other. They really don’t, at least not to me. I really can’t imagine confusing, for example, a Technic pin 3/4, with a Technic pin 1/2. I *can* imagine confusion between a pin with or without friction ridges, which is what I think you were getting at, but it still seems like we could get more colors without confusing things.
@PurpleDave said:
" @mhehir:
Different materials certainly had different mechanical properties. ABS was strong, PC was more prone to cracking (especially if exposed to extreme temperature changes while built), and PE is flexible. Different colors...not so much, I'd say. The only time we've heard of where color was critical to the mechanical peformance of a part was the Mixel joints (more specifically, the Mixel sockets). The exterior of the sockets had to fit within system but combined with an existing towball design so they could expand the range of parts that could be used for that half of the assembly. This resulted in the socket walls being rather thin. They also needed to be stiff enough to be able to maintain poses even after rough play, so the tolerances on these parts was razor thin compared to, say, a basic 2x4 brick. What they said was that changing the color affected how the joints performed.
I don't remember if specific issues were cited, but it could have resulted in joints that were too loose with one color, or that were too tight with another. Some colors may have been so tight, or so much less durable, that the sockets would crack open, which is the worst possible outcome. We've seen one of the Mixel ball joints get recolored, but only to the only other color that's ever been approved for use in any Mixel joint element. We've never seen the sockets themselves get recolored, not even to the other shade of bley (though we have seen proof that one Mixel socket got produced in reddish-brown. It's just never been released in any sets in that color."
I would *love* to find a resource that had more detail about the specific dyes that LEGO uses, and how they interact with the plastic. A long time ago, my wife worked with someone who worked on the infamous dark red dye, and while I remember their frustration when the resulting bricks were more brittle than they expected, I don't remember exactly why. (I asked my wife, and she doesn't remember either, and she's kind of confused about why I even care! I'm like... Okay, I'm not really sure why I care either. It's just like, when you notice that little injection molding pip on the side of *some* 1x1 tiles, but not all of them, don't you want to understand why they can't just use the mold that doesn't produce visible pip marks? I guess that either makes sense, or it doesn't... )
"Everyone makes mistakes when building, or gets a bit too frustrated when they can't find the element they need"
I actually love the concept of having to find my own mistakes, it amuses me and is quite an interesting one to process. The other thing I do that most people (I believe) don't like is sorting and organizing the bricks after they are disassembled.
a certain person calls this "Farbseuche"
@HOBBES:
The question is, do you want it to work as a development tool for those who don't really need it, or for those who do? Because just the size of the company then vs now suggest that those who do need it quickly give up if you design it to cater exclusively to those who don't.
@AlfredHitchcock:
Typically, if you compare all the bags in a given set, when numbers for numbered bags are repeated across one or more bags, the parts that are packed in them vary significantly in size. Really small parts will go in one bag, really large ones in another, and there might even be a third bag with parts that fall in the gap between. Excessively large parts will often be packed separately from the numbered bags, or simply thrown in the box loose.
@Lyichir:
After something that happened at one of our shows, I've strongly felt that anything that's on the layout doesn't need to appeal to everyone, but everyone needs to be able to find something on the layout that does. This can be applied just as easily to official sets. Both in terms of theme and complexity, they have a broad range of appeal established, but they definitely struggled for years with covering a broad range of skill levels. One weird thing I've noticed is that many of the people who complain about how the instructions are now too easy aren't the ones who talk about building MOCs, which just seems like any lessons learned were wasted.
@legoDad42:
Good point. How complex can the instructions for a 50pc set even be when it's possible to build the set from the box art alone?
@TeraMedia:
Determining the correct length of axle has always been such a problem that they print a 1:1 size chart on every page where axles are added. Just hold them up against the page until you find the one that's the same length as the picture.
@mhehir:
I would love to know the details on how some parts turned brittle vs so many others that didn't. Pip location varies over time, and sometimes for reasons that may not be obvious to the end consumer. Molds wear out and need to be replaced, or some molds may need to be duplicated because they just can't get enough throughput on a single mold. Unless you frequently order parts from a different continent, you probably aren't going to run into many cases of the same part having been made in different factories, outside of use in CMFs.
Gates could be moved because they need to change the flow pattern to eliminate a stress point. Moving them may allow the mold cavities to fit in a more compact mold, or they may make tooling a less complex mold possible. Based on images I've seen, they appear to have shifted away from making all-in-one molds to only making swappable mold plates that can share a common mold base. In the latter case, pip location may need to be standardized as much as possible. While a plate could have one located in the center of a topside stud, that simply wouldn't work for tiles.
What a wonderful article. Thank you!
I don't mind the different colors as long as they are hidden in the end. This is largely because I'm spoiled to have a large selection of alternative parts to utilize.
I don't like it when colorful pins show in the final product. I do understand why they are largely color-locked, and agree that could be extremely frustrating to some people.
It would be ideal if Lego would supply the less colorful pins as an alternative. Of course, I plan on rectifying this myself now that the dark grey pins are on PaB.
I understand they have their data showing that the building experience is better this way. Still, I find it ridiculous in sets that are CLEARLY geared towards adults. It's specially noticeable in sets that are mostly black and make extensive use of technic pins (the Mercedes F1 racer or the Dune ornithopter come to mind). The final display model looks terrible imo, because the pins are really out of place.
Do they really think that people spending upwards of $200, $300 or $400 dollars need to have certain parts in blue or red so that they don't confuse them?
What's the joke with the pink "brain" inside Brickheadz? Brains are gray.
@talarion:
It's important to remember that not every adult who finds an expensive D2C set appealing is going to be an experienced adult. Especially with licensed themes that have very limited range, that may be someone's first LEGO set. I know I've read at least one comment where it was said they design with this probability in mind.
@crazylegoman said:
"What's the joke with the pink "brain" inside Brickheadz? Brains are gray."
Brains are typically depicted as pink in cartoons, though. Don't know why, but they are.
I miss the "like and subscribe."
Now, I feel lost and alone.
I think telling us to check out your tubeside is a bit too familiar. There are doctors for that.
@talarion said:
"I understand they have their data showing that the building experience is better this way. Still, I find it ridiculous in sets that are CLEARLY geared towards adults. It's specially noticeable in sets that are mostly black and make extensive use of technic pins (the Mercedes F1 racer or the Dune ornithopter come to mind). The final display model looks terrible imo, because the pins are really out of place.
Do they really think that people spending upwards of $200, $300 or $400 dollars need to have certain parts in blue or red so that they don't confuse them? "
In addition to what @PurpleDave mentioned above about even those more expensive sets potentially being built by someone less experienced, with "color-locked" Technic parts like that one of the considerations is the system as a whole—after all, regardless of what set parts originate from there's going to be people who take them apart and mix them with their other parts. So for easily confused parts like pins and axles, having fewer colors overall makes it less likely for people to have to measure them all individually or test whether each one has friction or not.
@poshhammer: I hadn't really noticed, when building 21345, that the filler bricks stuck to the colors of the stripe. Very nice touch!
@legoDad42 said:
"The ultimate goal with ANY Lego set is to NOT keep it as is, but as you gain building experience you're supposed to take apart the model and build something new.
That's why no glue like a traditional model kit.
They're first and foremost building blocks. Not a model kit to cut, sand, prime, paint and glue."
After all, the reason the villain of TLM was so bad was because he wanted to use the Kragle to "make everything how it should be. Permanently."
I do like these articles... but I feel like I'm always late to the party, spread 100+ comments by the time I read it!
My 2 cents, I very much agree that colour locking technic pins so that eg black 2l are always a certain friction level makes absolute sense, but refusing to use more than one colour for an element does not... e.g if there are no current 2l pins produced in light grey, there should be nothing to prevent a designer introducing them.
And secondly, I very much support Lego sets being easier than they were in the 80s and 90s. There are all sorts of ways you can make the build harder if you like (tear out every other instruction page, mix the bags before starting, tie one arm behind your back, wear someone else's glasses...) but no ways to make the build easier if you find it hard!
I will agree though that a rainbow of colours makes it harder to moc from one set alone, but this is where I'd really like to see some info on what most Lego buyers do. Do they build a set once and display it? Build it repeatedly but keep it as a set? Moc from one set at a time? I would guess that the Lego group do this kind of research, and decide that it's better (or at least more profitable...) to prioritise first time builders of the set vs people wanting to moc it. It would be interesting to see the data behind that decision....
@poshhammer said:
" @yellowcastle said:
" @poshhammer - thank you for the great interaction. It’s appreciated. The topic, though, is a bit too small, imo.
I suspect that most of us clearly understood why it was being done and have just learned to accept it, whether we like it or not. My preference would have been for you to go “harder to the paint” here and simply discuss the dumbing down of builds as a whole by LEGO. Then we could have expanded away from filler bricks and talked about numbered bags, bazillion step instruction books, etc.
I don’t mind differently colored filler bricks nor do I look forward to them. So long as they get hidden, they rarely impact my experience. I do like the Brickheadz brains, though. :o)"
That could be one for a future topic, absolutely, but I don't think you will like my take on it... ;)"
Heh. Before anyone accuses Lego of dumbing down the building experience: it absolutely is not. Sets these days are way more complex and interesting to build than they were 20 to 30 years ago. Compare Technic or Model team sets to today's Technic and Creator/Icons offerings. The number of new parts that allow different building techniques that push the limits blows my mind.
The trade-off of more complex sets is that some steps need to be broken down further so that everyone can have a chance at understanding them. If each step of a Technic set required multiples of 20 different elements all at once like they did in the 90s then a lot of people would be in real trouble and sets would be left half-built. Lego's priority here is to reduce frustration for the largest part of its customer base. It's not to pander to the relative handful of AFOLs who don't appreciate that they aren't the only customers out there and get angry at the smallest problem.
If you want a set to be more difficult, nobody is stopping you from changing up the process to suit your preference. Try emptying all 2000 pieces from their bags all at once. Try treating multiple pages as one step. Try replacing all the colourful parts with matching single-colour substitutes. BE CREATIVE.
If you can't draw an ounce of your own creativity from your grey matter, then perhaps having sets made easier to build is an appropriate measure.
@Andrusi said:
"Anyway, my all-time favorite filler pieces are the hearts in 10283. I love you too, Discovery."
There's actually a good reason to use the 3x3 heart in that spot. They could have used a square 3x3 plate but the stud on the outer corner would have interfered with the placement of the leading edges of the wings that are attached via hinge plates later in the build. Those leading edges need to be placed flush with the angled wedge pieces in the chord of the wings to make the wings look smooth and a square plate would hang over those wedges just a *little* bit.
I do agree that it's kinda cute though. If Lego had a 3x3 corner piece with a stud missing in the same place as the heart-shaped piece (so basically another L-shaped corner plate in the same family as the 2x2 and 4x4 corner plates) then it would just be another unremarkable filler piece.
For those espousing the notion that all sets are meant to be taken apart and built into something new, please note that this is NOT the only way folks collect LEGO and is a myopic and exclusionary take. If I wanted to make and design all my own sets, I wouldn’t be paying these ridiculous premiums on licensed sets. Please remember that what is true to some of us is not always true to the rest.
Brick_Master said: "And secondly, I very much support Lego sets being easier than they were in the 80s and 90s. There are all sorts of ways you can make the build harder if you like (tear out every other instruction page, mix the bags before starting, tie one arm behind your back, wear someone else's glasses...) but no ways to make the build easier if you find it hard! "
As someone with limited use of his left hand, (and no real use at all for a few months after my stroke), I can attest that one-handed building is a real challenge. There's a reason the first two sets I got after the stroke were 4+ sets (10767 and 70821), after all.
@yellowcastle said:
"For those espousing the notion that all sets are meant to be taken apart and built into something new, please note that this is NOT the only way folks collect LEGO and is a myopic and exclusionary take. If I wanted to make and design all my own sets, I wouldn’t be paying these ridiculous premiums on licensed sets. Please remember that what is true to some of us is not always true to the rest."
For those espousing the notion that all sets are only meant to be built as their intended model and never rebuilt into something new, please note that this is NOT the only way folks collect LEGO and is a myopic and exclusionary take. If I wanted to spend ridiculous sums of money on static single use display pieces I would be buying Hot Toys or Sideshow statues and not brick based building sets. Please remember that what is true to some of us is not always true to the rest.
Sorry, I had to. :(
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I feel like there's some middle ground here. It doesn't have to be one side entirely at the expense entirely of the other.
A more harmonious filler palette, or maybe a filler palette that is shared across an entire theme, so that those with smaller/more focused collections have greater options for MOC building [should they so choose to do so!] with their limited supply of bricks, could still facilitate an easier building experience for everyone.
Personally, I'm okay with the Technic pin/axle situation. I don't always love the brightly color pins showing thru, but as someone who started with Technic in the 90s, I'm more for function over form in the Technic landscape. Technic can be a little ugly if it performs an interesting function.
"Color-vomit" on the other hand, is intensely frustrating for me. When I take a set apart, to use for something else, and end up with 3 green pieces, 2 pink, 4 purple, 7 yellow, etc etc when the bulk of the exposed pieces are in another color altogether ... is frustrating in that I'm going to have limited use for those color/pieces in the limited supply, or if I'm just sorting the pieces its going to compound the time to sort/put away the pieces.
@AlfredHitchcock I don't think it comes from different factories but it's all about optimisations in the factory process with packing lines etc. Designers are pretty sheltered from all that so I can't really talk about it, sadly.
@TheOtherMike 70821 is such a good set! Probably my favourite 4+ model.
@StyleCounselor Like and Subscribe!!! I'll bring it back in the next one just for you ;)
Also i never considered the other connotations of "Tubeside"... Is it too late for me to change it? ._.
"It is also not to “cheap out” by putting cheaper coloured LEGO elements inside the model. If that were the case, every filler colour would be black (one of the easiest colours to mix for injection moulding)."
It still appears that way since many pieces can be said to have a specific "Filler color". 2x16 plate when used as a filler is red most of the time. Of course there are also cases where it appears as a filler in magenta and dark azure so there is variation to the filler color, but if it really is only about being able to tell the color apart at a glance from the pile of bricks, why is the filler slot not also used to prevent a part/color combination from only appearing in one set? Like right now the 2x16 plate in olive green only appears in one Creator set 31116 and the dark green version of the part in 21250 yet those pieces remain only used in one set each which severly limits availability and then increases the aftermarket prices, if not now then once the set retires. More Dark Green copies in sets could be used to counteract the steep aftermarket price of 2$ per piece and if production cost is negligible why always go to red? Large parts like the 2x16 plate especially could be any color because in a bag of parts it is likely going to be the largest piece and thus already visible enough. If anything making it red every time will just decrease the visibility of any given 1x1 plate type filler piece included in the bag in the same red filler color.
You say designers already pay attention to the use of rarer colors as fillers but it really doesn't happen often enough if ever. Still the most common filler pieces are garish even if some of the more muted or earth tones provide just as much differentiation.
"Just like any product, compromises have to be made to account for all potential users. This can be particularly frustrating with the infamous bright-coloured Technic pins, but if these were available in any colour you wanted, it would wreak havoc on the LEGO system as a whole - with all the different friction levels and slightly different geometries, especially once all thrown in the brick bucket."
Why can't this argument ever be written by someone without turning a simple request into an idiotic strawman? Many Technic pieces are currently being produced in a garish filler color and a neutral shade to blend in with machinery builds, for example nearly every Technic axle and both friction variants of the pin with stud. But when it comes to this one piece, a 1L axle with 1L pin, the whole companies internal stock system is going to collapse.
We just want all basic Technic pins and axles to exist in at least one secondary color that doesn't stand out, like light gray, so that if a set has visible garish pieces it can at least be changed without ordering pins for 5$ per piece. But even if every pin exists in a neutral alternative, extreme cases like the Dune Ornithoptor should not repeat. Black 2L axles were used in the set already so switching to red at the most visible parts is just silly and will not have sped up the building process all that much. If that set really needed help, why not package the problem 2L axles into a separate plastic bag and include an illustration in the instructions that calls for the bag to be set aside from the rest of the pieces from that bag? Absolutely nobody is ok with the red axles in that set and switching those out is a necessity. Another solution could also have been to just double up on the piece count for the 2l axles and pin with ball so the builder can choose between red or black copies and does not need to order anything separately from elsewhere. It would be the only set up to now where this move is necessary, but there are many solutions that could have been implemented and to just let the set be released in its current state is flat out strange, it was clearly mismanaged but of course nobody who is even remotely involved with LEGO can critique the decisions made because of this culture of tip-toeing around the obvious issues and clearly visible alternative solutions.
Though personally, I do not care as much about this point anymore. These past two years I finally found multiple good quality off-brand producers of all the basic Technic pins and now will be switching the garish copies to whatever suits a given model best. Even the ultraorthodox purists that delete pictures and ban people off of their Subreddits for spotting a stud without LEGO-logo won't be able to tell that I am violating their sensibilites and I would recommend everyone to do the same. The issue can obviously not be discussed in any sensible manner, this was one dishonest answer too many. Because, again, there has been no addressing of why the very clearly visible parts can not then at least be changed to more muted shades instead of flat out primary color red, blue, yellow so the muted shade at least blends in more easily yet remains clearly identifiable in the pile? The UCS Star Destroyer middle seamline could have also blended in more decently in dark tan, dark brown, or maybe even dark red that could have referenced the second Death Stars construction rigs.
"Well, sadly, we are all stupid. All this is backed up by extensive user research and observation,"
That is one of the best quotes I've seen in a long time! :)))
@Anonym
I said SOME designers do that. It is a process done by individuals with varying opinions and quirks, so you can find outliers and contradictions but the number one reason is build flow for these design decisions.
Like you said, you can buy competitor products if you don't like the design decisions made by The LEGO Group, but thats the choices they made and the reasons they do it, whether any of us like it or not.
Now excuse me, the crows are coming for my crops and I need to get this straw man back out in the field.
@PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer said:
" @PurpleDave said:
" @poshhammer, you forgot two crucial tricks. One is to color-code the construction of the model. 21103 famously used red and blue parts in the early construction to make it easier to keep track of the orientation of the chassis, because it starts out with rotational symmetry that ends long before you can make out which end is the front vs the back. The other is that parts in weird colors may be selected for use because those colors are already in production for another set, thereby saving the designer from wasting a slot. They may want to pick a contrasting color, but the most economical choices are decided by what other designers used in other sets."
Good point about the orientation! Yes that is another one that falls under the build experience. :)
With the point about saving colour changes, you're sort of right but the motive is a bit off. They obviously wouldn't waste a colour change on a filler element. They can see what bricks in what colours are already in production so can pick anything from that list, so they SORT OF are picking them because other designers are using them, but only in that that's how the list is created, if that makes sense. :P"
That's kind of what I was trying to say. I have seen designers admit that they chose a fresh recolor (thereby using up a precious slot on a filler part) because they knew the fan community would appreciate it. And a perfect example of this is the baseplates under the Modulars. In nearly every Modular, the entire baseplate seems to be completely covered up fairly soon in the build process, so economically it would make sense to keep the baseplates all the same color. That's not what has happened, though. Reddish-brown under 10246, and red (for the first time in 35 years) under 10232 were one-offs. Light-bley under 10243 has appeared sporadically (including under two other Modulars), but may have been another conscious bone to the AFOL community. These days you don't see that as much, with Modulars rotating between light-bley, dark-bley, or tan, with a single instance in green."
Um, For the cinema the red shows in the interior of the ground floor, and the Detective's office back lot is untiled, presumably the brown was a consious choice.
@jkb said:
"I think you can pinpoint the introduction of coulourblocking exactly to 1997. The UFO subtheme of space had suddenly yellow and blue bricks popping up in the interior of larger models; 1996 sets didn't have that yet.
I believe too many useless colours is why brick boxes sern't such a good deal anymore as they were: while a big selection of colours seems attractive at first, it totally breaks continuity when you're free building but the part you need is only available in the wrong colour.
@Klontjes:
Prints are used whenever Lego thinks a design ist reusable. Every unique design is solved with stickers to reduce storage and manufacturing costs (an exemption are rounded surfaces and parts for 4+). For better understanding, it helps to look up a video that shows the production of Lego bricks."
No doubt true, but the first set I encountered filler bricks in odd colours in was 5591, which is from 1994.
Dune Ornithropter for example should have been less colorful. What do you do with the extra 5-10 minutes you save not looking for those grey or black pieces? Maybe you spend them looking at that color vomit on youe shelf when the set is ready... The building proces is a journey, it SHOULD last a little longer.
@aquarian said:
"Dune Ornithropter for example should have been less colorful. What do you do with the extra 5-10 minutes you save not looking for those grey or black pieces? Maybe you spend them looking at that color vomit on youe shelf when the set is ready... The building proces is a journey, it SHOULD last a little longer."
Dune Ornithropter owner here. I built the thing with black pieces instead of the red, just because of all the backlash that LEGO got for this colour choice, and to see if all the angry AFOLs would be right. Had to rebuild it as planned because I thought it looked too boring with black only.
Just an example to show you that what the average AFOL who reads brickset prefers is not want everybody thinks. Me honestly thinks most people don't give a FF (I will leave it up to your imagination what this means).
Also, maybe I am the only one, but I just find colour vomit to be an incredibly disrespectful choice of words for what is essentially a decision made by people you do not even know.
@Rare_White_Ape said:
" @Andrusi said:
"Anyway, my all-time favorite filler pieces are the hearts in 10283. I love you too, Discovery."
There's actually a good reason to use the 3x3 heart in that spot. They could have used a square 3x3 plate but the stud on the outer corner would have interfered with the placement of the leading edges of the wings that are attached via hinge plates later in the build. Those leading edges need to be placed flush with the angled wedge pieces in the chord of the wings to make the wings look smooth and a square plate would hang over those wedges just a *little* bit.
I do agree that it's kinda cute though. If Lego had a 3x3 corner piece with a stud missing in the same place as the heart-shaped piece (so basically another L-shaped corner plate in the same family as the 2x2 and 4x4 corner plates) then it would just be another unremarkable filler piece."
I believe this was actually pioneered with 76161, which released one year earlier. However, if all they needed was a 3x3 plate with the corner lopped off, wouldn't 30357 work just as well?
@yellowcastle:
If I buy a set, it's either for the set or for the parts, but never both. Unless I buy more than one copy. Other members of my LUG absolutely do build the sets, and eventually part them out for use in MOCs.
@AustinPowers said:
"When I read a statement like this I wonder
a) how LEGO economically survived the Eighties and
b) how we as kids managed to enjoy building with LEGO as much as we did and for as long as we did. "
The shape palette overall in the 80ies was less different bricks, than there is active headgear elements only in today’s portfolio.
In the 80ies you had red, white, blue, yellow, black and grey to build from, with occasional green plate (I owned ten green elements as a kid), and brown for a broom or a spear, and four trans colors until M-Tron showed up.
Compare that to today, where each of the colors has a dark, bright, medium shade, a bazillion different pieces, and much more pieces per set than back then, and it should be blatantly obvious.
According to Brickset, I own 479 Sets from the sweetspot 80ies to 90ies, and I only have 65700 bricks. That’s 100 average 30 Bucks sets TODAY!
Big factor in my opinion is the lack of internet, and thus the lack of a platform where one could whine and complain. There is no data how the 80ies kids found the LEGO experience, but our own memory.
Also, also it’s 2024, that’s the world we live in. Most people find sitting thru Lord of the Rings a real commitment, but watching 30 second TikToks for 3 hours is just fine.
LEGO has to adjust to that world…
@Gamlebilrokker:
I mean, to be fair, even in the theatrical release, the LotR trilogy clocks in at a whopping nine hours 18 minutes. If you go for the Expanded Edition (and of course you absolutely should), that jumps up to a whopping 11 hours 54 minutes, with nearly an hour of that just being fan club credits. And if you watch the Blu-Ray version, they added even more fan club credits to include anyone who bandwagoned following the VHS/DVD release of the Extended Editions. Throw in the Hobbit:EE films, and you're looking a total of 21 hours 46 minutes. I find it's best to spread that out over an entire week, maybe two.
I have been building with Lego for 50 years; I like to think I'm pretty good at it. Yet I still make mistakes occasionally, often due to overconfidence. There are so many parts with various curves and angles that look similar. I don't think the instructions are overly simplified- anyone new to Lego could find it bewildering to add a dozen or more parts, many with left and right versions, in a single step.
I like the colorful bricks hidden inside builds. Those who complain that it makes them useless for MOCs just lack imagination, IMO. I'm sure most of us have many more than just one set.
@Hippie94 said:
"I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly"
Unless you're colorblind.
@busyman said:
" @Hippie94 said:
"I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly"
Unless you're colorblind."
Y'know, that'd be an interesting study, although you'd have a hard time funding it. Which Lego colors are easiest for colorblind people (and you'd have to test different types of colorblindness, of course) to distinguish, and which do they struggle with the most?
@TheOtherMike said:
" @busyman said:
" @Hippie94 said:
"I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly"
Unless you're colorblind."
Y'know, that'd be an interesting study, although you'd have a hard time funding it. Which Lego colors are easiest for colorblind people (and you'd have to test different types of colorblindness, of course) to distinguish, and which do they struggle with the most?"
Don't Lego do this? I seem to remember, but I may have dreamt it so don't quote me, that at least one designer has some degree of colour blindness so usually works with colleagues to confirm final colour selection?
@Brick_Master said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
" @busyman said:
" @Hippie94 said:
"I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly"
Unless you're colorblind."
Y'know, that'd be an interesting study, although you'd have a hard time funding it. Which Lego colors are easiest for colorblind people (and you'd have to test different types of colorblindness, of course) to distinguish, and which do they struggle with the most?"
Don't Lego do this? I seem to remember, but I may have dreamt it so don't quote me, that at least one designer has some degree of colour blindness so usually works with colleagues to confirm final colour selection? "
Me
@poshhammer said:
" @Brick_Master said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
" @busyman said:
" @Hippie94 said:
"I like this as it breaks up the solid color palette inside. And in some sets like R2 and Saturn V for example, the red and green insides help you make sure it’s rotated right during assembly"
Unless you're colorblind."
Y'know, that'd be an interesting study, although you'd have a hard time funding it. Which Lego colors are easiest for colorblind people (and you'd have to test different types of colorblindness, of course) to distinguish, and which do they struggle with the most?"
Don't Lego do this? I seem to remember, but I may have dreamt it so don't quote me, that at least one designer has some degree of colour blindness so usually works with colleagues to confirm final colour selection? "
Me "
Haha, was it really you? I can't remember where I read it, but if there isn't already an article, something on that topic would make for interesting reading if it were something you felt like discussing!
I completely agree with this. It opens up a world of different MOCs by adding more colours of brick in one set and makes the build easier and more interesting. I particularly liked this in 75328
I just want to say that I adore this series, so thank you for doing it and for engaging with the comments. Keep being awesome!
Sometimes I try and guess how visible a brick will be from the outside so I can swap it for a less interesting alternative from my collection.
"For those espousing the notion that all sets are meant to be taken apart and built into something new, please note that this is NOT the only way folks collect LEGO and is a myopic and exclusionary take. If I wanted to make and design all my own sets, I wouldn’t be paying these ridiculous premiums on licensed sets. Please remember that what is true to some of us is not always true to the rest."
Of course you can do whatever you want with your set, but you're not understanding what Lego originally is, what its main function is.
It's totally meant to be taken apart.
That's the main purpose, that's why no glue.
Build, take apart, build again, or build something new.
BUT to your point, not the only purpose. It's all up to the individual.
But the MAIN purpose is a still a building block system that can easily be customized.
Build the kit, take apart to build again, customize, leave as is, display it, mod it, moc from it, poach the kit for parts for other models, and if you desire even glue it if you want (i've done that with a dot of elmer's glue when little parts like antennae would come off easily when my kid played with them), recolor/paint it (i've seen artists do this with lego) it, add additional material, lights, etc. All of the above.
"What's the joke with the pink "brain" inside Brickheadz? Brains are gray."
"Brains are typically depicted as pink in cartoons, though. Don't know why, but they are."
It's a 'funny' way to show like when you open up a skull, the brain is cover in blood and tissue fluids, etc. It has a pinkish/reddish tone.
Technically it's black, white, and pinkish-gray while alive, owing to its components.
Most of the outer parts of the brain are made of gray matter, which gives it its color.
White matter is 60% of the brain, while gray matter takes 40%.
The tissue of a fresh brain is pinkish-white because myelin makes up most of the lipid tissue, which has a dense network of capillaries.
@legoDad42 said:
""For those espousing the notion that all sets are meant to be taken apart and built into something new, please note that this is NOT the only way folks collect LEGO and is a myopic and exclusionary take. If I wanted to make and design all my own sets, I wouldn’t be paying these ridiculous premiums on licensed sets. Please remember that what is true to some of us is not always true to the rest."
Of course you can do whatever you want with your set, but you're not understanding what Lego originally is, what its main function is.
It's totally meant to be taken apart.
That's the main purpose, that's why no glue.
Build, take apart, build again, or build something new.
BUT to your point, not the only purpose. It's all up to the individual.
But the MAIN purpose is a still a building block system that can easily be customized.
Build the kit, take apart to build again, customize, leave as is, display it, mod it, moc from it, poach the kit for parts for other models, and if you desire even glue it if you want (i've done that with a dot of elmer's glue when little parts like antennae would come off easily when my kid played with them), recolor/paint it (i've seen artists do this with lego) it, add additional material, lights, etc. All of the above."
Your post had the Diff'rent Strokes theme song running through my head.
"Now the world don't move
To the beat of just one drum
What might be right for you
Might not be right for some..."
I only dislike the large amounts of colours being used when you can see it from the outside of the finished model - especially Technic pins. The Technic Batmobile is one of the worst offenders.
Otherwise I have no problem with this practice. They usually try to put similarly coloured piece in in different bags as well - for example, dark blue, dark brown and black pieces can be hard to discern from one another in the instructions - which is why they split the instructions up into bags at the very point that they do - so that you would only get a certain piece in a colour that could be confused for another in Bag 3, and not Bag 2 or 4 if they have a piece that you might accidentally pick up instead of the correct piece. This is also very much true for all the different pinks that they have (you would see this in a Friends set).
>This is not a “dumbing down” of LEGO sets, nor does it relate to children having shorter attention spans.
If anything, I seem to get more frustrated as an adult when I can't find the necessary piece within 30 seconds.
At the end of the day, colored Technic pins sticking out generally don't bother me. It's a construction toy, not a model kit you build once for display.
As long as these colors are fillers I appreciate these bricks, because you can use rhe variety for mocs. But i Do not understand some technic pins, why using blue when e.g. black is needed and you can see every pin from the outside.