Brickset Bouts: 21348 Red Dragon's Tale vs. 10305 Lion Knights' Castle
Posted by Huw,
The penultimate first round bout in our contest to determine the best set released since 2020 pits two sets that, in my opinion, are both worthy of that title.
21348 Dungeons & Dragons: Red Dragon's Tale, another excellent set yielded by LEGO Ideas, faces up to a set from the fan-favourite Castle theme, 10305 Lion Knights' Castle.
sanderkoenen advocates for the homage to the tabletop fantasy game, and jhoya for the medieval fortress after the break. Read what they have to say then cast your vote.
21348 Dungeons & Dragons: Red Dragon's Tale
Dungeons and Dragons: Red Dragon’s Tale is not just a great set. It is a perfect set. It provides not just a great build experience, but also a great play experience.
During construction, you get the feeling that you are on a journey. Gathering in the tavern and then up to the adventure, through the fields towards the cave to the castle ruin. But if that is not your journey, you can climb the rock wall and enter the ruins from a different direction. On the way you encounter skeletons and other creatures. And at the end you encounter the wizard, who was the innkeeper from the start. Then there is the dragon.
The building process guides you through the story in a satisfying way. You discover with each module a new secret or a new creature to overcome. The combination of modules gives a 360 degrees finished well decorated build with a lot of play potential. Even some play features are present in the build. That brings you back to the sets from the late 90s or the early 00s.
Most of the time the building was straightforward, but now and then there is a technique that stands out. After a landscape module is a creature that contains some interesting techniques. The Dragon was a very satisfying end of the building process where a lot of SNOT techniques are present. The colors are also great and subtle, Light Bluish Gray for the ruin, Dark Tan for the rocks, Green for the landscape and Dark Blue for the water. The Inn has some great colors that pops from the build. Add the dragon to the build and the set looks very colorful and yet not cluttered.
The storybook (not included in this set) gives you the ability to play a story with this set. This reminds me of the Ninjago wave of 2020 Master of the Mountain or Heroica or (for the older fans) Orient Expedition. The extra play value by adding a game element to the set is like a icing on the cake.
Even if you’re not a fan of Dungeons and Dragons, this set gives a nice way how to build a house, landscape and Castle. You can remove the Fantasy elements and just add your Wolfpack Renegades, Forestmen, Lion Knights or Black Falcons to have a great Medieval setting. To summarize this set: This set gives a great adventurous building and play experience with inspiration to build further.
10305 Lion Knights' Castle
Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary.
With groundbreaking building techniques (the balcony and thatched roof) and a charming build flow of stack bricks on top of plates, LKC hits the right balance between nostalgia and AFOL enjoyment.
With great play features (the drawbridge, dungeon escape, and the water-powered grist) and varying display options, LKC provides more playability and versatility than most adult sets. While LKC may not be as aesthetically beautiful as other sets on this list, its ability to invoke nostalgia in the adult LEGO builder and play in both the young and old demonstrates the features that make us love LEGO more than any other set.
Thanks its striking presence and Pick-A-Brick options, 10305 inspired many Bricklink Designer Program sets, MOCs and official LEGO sets so builders could create their own Castle village.
Finally, in a world saturated with intellectual property, it is nice for LEGO to have a signature set for its own history.
Cast your vote!
Having read the above, which of these two sets do you think should go through to the quarter-final for a chance to be crowned "best set of the last five years" ?
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102 comments on this article
The D&D set was what brought me back to LEGO after almost 5 decades away (!!)
My wallet wishes it hadn't.....
Unfortunately, I suspect the Castle Mafia (a distant cousin of The Space Mafia) will hold sway
:-))
I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one.
I think this one is really tough. The Lion Knights’ Castle has the classic design and more minifigures, but Red Dragons’ Tale might be the quintessential Lego castle model in the sense it has so many different things in it. I’m lucky enough to own both, but this will be a very interesting matchup.
This could easily be a final for me.
For me it’s castle all the way one of the only sets I’ve bought day 1 the nostalgia was to strong
@pilot63 said:
"This could easily be a final for me."
Definitely two of the strongest contenders in this contest! But since I prefer my castles without fantasy creatures, it was still an easy choice to make.
This is the first bout that is a fair compare IMHO
D&D is original, with plenty of features to make it fun and interesting.
The castle really is just a castle and the castle fans are getting all the service recently with 3in1's, this and the BDP...
Lion Knight - mini figs, nostalgia, scale, play features, linking to other sets
Red Dragon - new ip excitement, overall display, stands on its own better, price
I cant comment on build as ive not built either yet.
I like both sets but I think LKC takes this by a fair margin.
This is the hardest one yet, both offer a great building experience, lots of features and are caste/fantasy based sets. I think the D&D one is just a very small step better for me, just for that fact that you can use the whole set as a playable one shot.
10305 Lion Knight's Castle was the most fun building and adult play experience I've ever experienced, so it gets my vote while 21348 is still on my wishlist.
As a massive fan of D&D and LEGO Castle, this is a really hard choice. I have the D&D set. I don’t have LKC but only because I lack the space and funds. I really can’t decide which to vote for!
I love both sets, but I'm more about fantasy than I am about castle specifically, so the D&D set is the clear winner (for me). It's a castle, plus monsters, magic and all sorts. Love it.
Neither.
There are countless castle sets, and yet AFOLs moan that Lego never produce any castles.
I've no interest in D&D beyond liking the cartoon version as a kid, but there's something about this set that makes me want it!
@MegaBlocks said:
"Neither.
There are countless castle sets, and yet AFOLs moan that Lego never produce any castles."
To be fair, I think AFOLs 'moan' about there being no Castle theme, not that LEGO never makes any castles. There is much more to a Castle theme than just the titular structures.
My two favourite sets and one of them will go out so early. I just finished 21348 yesterday and the completed model is marvellous, still unsure how I am going to vote as 10305 also looks fantastic on my display. This is a tough one...
I have LKC and love it, although it is a lot of gray wall building.
I think the DnD set is a better build experience, but it is not as iconic to me.
Equally disinterested in both.
Next...
Have them both, love them both. However... 10305 is objectively better value for money. And when I finished constructing it, I was absolutely thrilled.
So my vote goes to the Lion Knight's Castle, even if I have nearly 30 years of experience playing and running D&D and love all things fantasy.
That's a tough one...
DnD is way better set.
This time the contest is between two set that has much in common: both are castle sets, similar price point, similar size.
The lion castle is more "classic", rich of recalls from the past, a sort of summary of old castle sets.
The D&D set has a greater variety, is modular and has a brand-new play feature: a full D&D adventure to play with it.
I'm a long time D&D addict, but I can't forgive the replacement of the wonderful and enveloping dark green dragon with that static clumsy red dragon, so my vote goes to the castle.
PS: does anyone knows if the author releases the instructions for the green dragon anywhere?
Having to choose between them before the finale is so hard ! I am not voting, they both have their own merit and deserve the crown.
Ahh yes, the ultimate battle. With similar aesthetics, this comes down to licensed vs unlicensed and fantasy vs realism (??)
I generally like fantasy better, but the DnD set is kinda too crowded to me. Don't get me wrong, the details are nice but at the same time at a quick glance the castle looks way more coherent. Kinda wish the DnD set focused entirely the tavern part.
Extremely close, but the Lion Knights Castle is more reasonably priced and it kickstarted the LEGO Castle revival.
As much as Dungeons and Dragons set look more action packed and colorful, I have to go with Lion Knights' Castle. It's more... me.
D&D was the worst building experience for me in the past 15 years. Little subassemblies fall apart at every corner, every time it's handled. Such quality control issues that I had to complain to LEGO.com, which I never do. Glad this one is up against the Lion Knights' Castle.
Definitely one of the tougher rounds, from my point of view at least. Both have nifty techniques, both have great looks and interactivity, both have similar vibes.
But I actually own Lion Knights’ Castle, and broke my normal budgeting rules to do so, while Red Dragon still sits on my watchlist, which I think tells me which way I should be voting
Where is the 'both' option?
I bought 10305 Lion Knight's Castle day one. I enjoyed building it but - unpopular opinion here - I did not enjoy the set. It did nothing to me, sadly. So I took it apart and sold it. At least it made someone else happy.
I never got the other one for fear it would be the same.
Thus, I will not vote today.
This is incredibly difficult. I’ve never played D&D, but the fantasy elements of the kit are right up my alley and all the little hidden details and especially the monster builds are utterly delightful, plus the inn reminds me of the blacksmith and I’m very fond of that kit. The LKC is perhaps a little big for my taste, but it’s surely the current apotheosis of what classic Lego Castle is, has, and should be, even if my tastes run a little more on the fantasy end and I’d be adding assorted elves and dwarves and so on as residents if I had it, and I would say it displays a little more beautifully. The primary flaw of the D&D castle is it is perhaps a little cluttered, even if there’s a joy in itself of having many elements to look at, whereas the LKC has just enough detail to keep it interesting without overwhelming the eye.
Although, the D&D castle has a dragon and I love dragons. I love dragons so much some friends put a dragon in their convention display specifically to represent me when I couldn’t be there, so dragons hold a lot of weight.
But… my classic Lego Castle-loving partner would not be chuffed if LKC didn’t get through, and I’d feel terribly guilty if I contributed to that…
Argh. This is so hard. :( I guess I kind of win/lose either way so I could just not vote at all, but that doesn’t really seem in the spirit of the thing.
Tough decision, but I think the castle has more potential.
"Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?
@TheOtherMike said:
""Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?"
Yes. The black trees, obviously.
most difficult round, 2 of my favourite sets. The structure in lion knight castle is a little better I think, but D&D has the dragon, all the creatures and better minifigs imo.
I don't own either yet, but I'm definitely grabbing the castle before it retires. No idea where I'll put it once I have it, but I must have it. And when I do get it, I'll start thinking about where to put the D&D set too.
@TheOtherMike said:
""Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?"
So many people agreed with you that’s why 10497 was almost immediately on sale and retired well before 10305
@Belboz said:
"The D&D set was what brought me back to LEGO after almost 5 decades away (!!)
My wallet wishes it hadn't.....
Unfortunately, I suspect the Castle Mafia (a distant cousin of The Space Mafia) will hold sway
:-))"
It doesn’t help to have never had a Dark Ages, either. Besides buying the Ideas set, I also bought 125 of the minifigs, bought a few extras of the monsters from the set, bought four extra copies of the Mimic Dice Box (which I modified into a Mimicaneer, a Mega Mimic, and a Beholder Mimic), and built 21 minifig-scale Beholders (usually running $30 each), seven mini Beholders, a scene with a party of 13 Player Characters facing off against a Death Tyrant, and a minifig case that I’m nearly done filling with pre-fight versions of the same characters. All told, I’m well over $2500 in at this point.
PLEASE change some parts of your CASTLE colors and it is so much better...
(Lion)
Heavy nostalgia biased here. Lion King's one without any doubt for me. I don't even imagine the adventures I would have made if I had had this as a kid... Such a lovely castle it is!
this was the hardest match-up yet, both these sets would have crushed many of the others already done
this should have been like a finals match-up
I'm not a fan of D&D, but that thing is amazing (especially when paired with the nice CMFs!). I waited 20 years for the return of classic castle and it's a great set, but it's too showy and not such a great playset... so I'm voting D&D here... (which is also showy, but also a great playset).
KILDAR for the Wi... and he's already dead...
The D&D one includes an actual D&D game that can be played with the set. This makes it undoubtedly the winner for me…but I suspect folks that don’t play D&D are going to throw their vote being the giant gray castle without the dragon. Oh well… I know who the REAL winner is here. (I own both.)
21348 has a dragon, and is therefore superior.
This is unfair. This could be the finals. I call shenanigans on this being a first-round match-up. SHENANIGANS.
Voted LKC. When I love both sets equally, I default to the un-licensed one.
Never have been a fan of D&D, but do have a soft for the classic castle stuff, though a lot of people seem to be voting off nostalgia, which isn’t of course inherently wrong but it does tend to favor sets that are arguably less deserving of the title. This is perhaps the most “fair” matchup. Similar price, similar value, similar theme. Nothing particularly groundbreaking in either as far as building techniques go. As an owner of both sets in comparing the two, it’s one of the more difficult decisions, but I’ve got to go with D&D which beats out Castle by a slim margin in my books. It came down to the figures and monsters, which are much more detailed and engaging as well as the front entrance section of the castle looking rather unfinished.
@jhoya said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
""Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?"
So many people agreed with you that’s why 10497 was almost immediately on sale and retired well before 10305"
Yes, I'm sure that was based entirely on popularity and had nothing to do with the fact that expensive sets always have longer production runs...
@Crux said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
""Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?"
Yes. The black trees, obviously."
The one with the water?
I like both of these, but between the two I think I prefer 10305. It has a cleaner look to me, and more minifigs. I totally understand if some people prefer 21348, though.
Lion Knights Castle is definitely one of my favorite sets of all time. I have absolutely zero connection the DnD, but I have to say, the CMF was incredible; as @BlackFalconBirdman and @PurpleDave would agree.
I said yesterday that this would be my second easiest choice, and it surely is. The LKC is truly a masterpiece, and I’m happy to display is square and center in my Medieval Realm. I’m too young to have nostalgia for Castle, but I love that set still.
To me they're both Castle Stuff.
Lion Knight's Castle hands down. The most enjoyable LEGO building experience and it just looks so good.
@Wallace_Brick_Designs said:
" @Crux said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
""Lion Knights Castle was the perfect birthday gift to LEGO fans for the 90th anniversary." No, 10497 was. It was also cheaper. Anyway, I knew I would be voting for D&D (granted, If I had the space, I'd definitely have both, but if I only had space for one, it'd be D&D), but I rolled a D20 just to see. D&D got seventeen, LKC got seven.
@Crux said:
"I like the medieval set. You know, the one with the towers, and the swords. The one with the grey walls, you know the one."
The one with the trees, right? That one?"
Yes. The black trees, obviously."
The one with the water?"
Absolutely. And the minifigures. That one.
Hardest one yet. On one hand Red Dragon's Tale went above and beyond in embracing its subject matter and delivered a kind of play experience we haven't seen before while still looking mighty good. Both D&D and LEGO celebrate imagination and they've captured that here by giving you a starting point and toolbox for your own adventures.
On the other Lion Knights' Castle is a no expenses spared love letter to classic castle with a very polished build, Ultimate LEGO Castle, that I think will still be considered a landmark release decades from now.
I guess short term/last five years I have to give it to Red Dragon's Tale, but if you'd asked long term/last ten plus years I would have voted for Lion Knights' Castle.
Right, so. With that crappy half-joke firmly driven into the ground - this is not an easy choice, and that's likely because this is the first match-up that's properly, evenly matched. I'm not really in love with big slabs of grey, and so I kind of fell out of touch with castles. It's just what it is. That said, both of these sets are pretty evocative, and it's not like I didn't love this stuff, growing up. I spent hours playing out adventures with the old castles - and later on, when I started playing D&D, I used a Lego knight as my minifigure.
If I were to get back into castle-stuff, I think I'd just get both of these and roll them into one big build. Plop the rickety tower from 21348 on top of the guard-tower from 10305, connect the bridge to the ramp leading up to the portcullis, connect the inn to the castle's living-quarters, that sort of thing. You've got yourself a lovely castle, sir. A nice big castle. A big castle, ready for grand adventures.
I still haven't chosen, and you can't make me. Hahaaa! Smoke bomb!
Don't have either, but would want both. First hard voting decision.
As a member of the Space Mafia, I'm really enjoying watching the Castle Mafia eat itself.
@Wallace_Brick_Designs said:
"Lion Knights Castle is definitely one of my favorite sets of all time. I have absolutely zero connection the DnD, but I have to say, the CMF was incredible; as @BlackFalconBirdman and @PurpleDave would agree."
According to my 41.9 Mindflayers, I do.
I’m split here. ?? I’m more into the modular designs like the Blacksmith’s, so these two castles do not appeal to me.
Our family uses both sets in our home D&D game. While they are both great, 10305 was a more enjoyable build, nicer to look at, and more fun to play with. On the other hand, we spent a very enjoyable month figbashing all of the character classes from the new Player’s Handbook, and that couldn’t have happened without 21348…. In the end, our own internal poll results have the castle ahead 75/25, so 10305 it is!
I don't own either of these sets and I think they both cost too much money to make them truly great sets, but... For the sake of making a difference between the two I voted for the Lion Knights' Castle. For a (rich) kid to play with that looks like a much funner set.
Although I am not very much involved in 'Castle' at all, this is the second hardest vote after Galaxy Explorer vs Ninjago Garden. I like both equally but since you eventually have to cast a vote, I will go with the Lion Knights Castle 10305. Either one winning that bout will make me happy. They are both fantastic in their own ways.
@Crux said:
"Right, so. With that crappy half-joke firmly driven into the ground - this is not an easy choice, and that's likely because this is the first match-up that's properly, evenly matched. I'm not really in love with big slabs of grey, and so I kind of fell out of touch with castles. It's just what it is. That said, both of these sets are pretty evocative, and it's not like I didn't love this stuff, growing up. I spent hours playing out adventures with the old castles - and later on, when I started playing D&D, I used a Lego knight as my minifigure.
If I were to get back into castle-stuff, I think I'd just get both of these and roll them into one big build. Plop the rickety tower from 21348 on top of the guard-tower from 10305, connect the bridge to the ramp leading up to the portcullis, connect the inn to the castle's living-quarters, that sort of thing. You've got yourself a lovely castle, sir. A nice big castle. A big castle, ready for grand adventures.
I still haven't chosen, and you can't make me. Hahaaa! Smoke bomb!"
No problem, I don't want you to choose.
I really couldn't choose, so I decided to go with the dice. 16 for Lion Knights' Castle, but a natural 20 for Red Dragon's Tale. There you go!
@Crux said:
"Right, so. With that crappy half-joke firmly driven into the ground - this is not an easy choice, and that's likely because this is the first match-up that's properly, evenly matched. I'm not really in love with big slabs of grey, and so I kind of fell out of touch with castles. It's just what it is. That said, both of these sets are pretty evocative, and it's not like I didn't love this stuff, growing up. I spent hours playing out adventures with the old castles - and later on, when I started playing D&D, I used a Lego knight as my minifigure.
If I were to get back into castle-stuff, I think I'd just get both of these and roll them into one big build. Plop the rickety tower from 21348 on top of the guard-tower from 10305 , connect the bridge to the ramp leading up to the portcullis, connect the inn to the castle's living-quarters, that sort of thing. You've got yourself a lovely castle, sir. A nice big castle. A big castle, ready for grand adventures.
I still haven't chosen, and you can't make me. Hahaaa! Smoke bomb!"
Looks like somebody has at least one level of Rogue.
@aerwiarbrickking606 said:"Don't have either, but would want both. First hard voting decision. "
I want both (and the space to display them), but I voted for D&D because that's the one I'd get if I only had space for one.
@Calabar said:
"I'm a long time D&D addict, but I can't forgive the replacement of the wonderful and enveloping dark green dragon with that static clumsy red dragon, so my vote goes to the castle.
PS: does anyone knows if the author releases the instructions for the green dragon anywhere? "
Lego is currently selling three sets of green dragons, for $20, $60, and $150. (And in my opinion the $60 one is the best one.)
As always, I will vote as @Crux votes. In this occasion, it appears to be for the fortified establishment with competing factions.
Both are deserving an opportunity to slay Elrond.
10305 is a fantastic set, yet it's not something entirely new, aw we've seen castle sets like this before
Meanwhile, 21348 looks very natural and picturesque, with the tavern giving the model a much needed splash of color, plus the dragon looks very cool.
It's just a shame that the set is Ideas.
Two of my favorite sets not just of the past few years, but of all time.
I think I have to give it to the Lion Knights, if only because of how fragile the red dragon is. I can’t think of a single complaint about the Lion Knights, while I have one very minor one about DnD
The greatest classic/nostalgic castle set vs. The best modern castle/fantasy set …..
Easy one for me. Despite both of these being sets that I really like, I only really wanted one of them. Don't think I will bother with the other. They are both big, expensive sets that require a bit of commitment - with both budget and display space.
Love the colors of the D&D set, it's playful and vibrant but without being over the top thanks to the combination of a lot of muted tones as well. It has an interesting silhouette, but feels a bit incomplete to me with the open back. And each individual section just looks a tad too miniaturized. It's priced as if it didn't have those issues.
Lion Knights' Castle on the other hand feels complete all way around, and perfectly minifig-scaled. It can be configured to have an open back too, and when done so it must be twice the size of the D&D set! Granted, I have only built Lion Knights', but I can't see D&D beat that experience. Unless perhaps you are a D&D-fan, and I'm not.
@Feroz said:
"I really couldn't choose, so I decided to go with the dice. 16 for Lion Knights' Castle, but a natural 20 for Red Dragon's Tale. There you go!"
If you have that sort of dice, you were already biased to the Red Dragon's Tale.
(or maybe that was the intended joke...)
Edit: I did some research as to when they both came to be and they are both very old. 6-sided dice is before recorded history and 20-sided dice is from around 300 BC.
As far as Brickset is concerned:
10942 persons own 10305
4189 persons own 21348
If people 'talk' with their money, then there is a clear winner here. But 10305 has been around since 2022 and 21348 has only been available since 2024.
@BJNemeth said:
"Lego is currently selling three sets of green dragons, for $20, $60, and $150. (And in my opinion the $60 one is the best one.)"
I am aware of that in fact I own it. Lovely Dragon. But the dark green dragon of the original D&D set still occupies a special place in my heart.
If instructions will not pop up somewere, I'll try to build it in digital hoping to produce something enough good to be build.
@HOBBES said:
" @Feroz said:
"I really couldn't choose, so I decided to go with the dice. 16 for Lion Knights' Castle, but a natural 20 for Red Dragon's Tale. There you go!"
If you have that sort of dice, you were already biased to the Red Dragon's Tale.
(or maybe that was the intended joke...)
Edit: I did some research as to when they both came to be and they are both very old. 6-sided dice is before recorded history and 20-sided dice is from around 300 BC."
I believe the only one that was invented specifically for D&D or any related predecessor was the d10. The d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20 were all borrowed in from a set of dice based on polyhedral shapes. The d100 _may_ have been created with D&D in mind, but the RPG itself had already gotten a solution by using an off-color d10 to represent the 10’s digit, so it was likely developed externally to T$R. And all the crazy variety of d-oddball dice that have popped up ever since are mostly either the result of someone either finding a very specific use that they could also figure out a die shape to resolve (d2 instead of flipping a coin, d7 for day of week, d30 for day of month, etc), or someone having too much free time and the use of a 3D printer (seriously, WTH legitimate use could someone have for a d57 except to say they have a wider variety of dice than the next guy?).
@Calabar said:
" @BJNemeth said:
"Lego is currently selling three sets of green dragons, for $20, $60, and $150. (And in my opinion the $60 one is the best one.)"
I am aware of that in fact I own it. Lovely Dragon. But the dark green dragon of the original D&D set still occupies a special place in my heart.
If instructions will not pop up somewere, I'll try to build it in digital hoping to produce something enough good to be build. "
I think Ideas winners might be prohibited from making instructions for the original version available.
@TheOtherMike said:
" @Calabar said:
" @BJNemeth said:
"Lego is currently selling three sets of green dragons, for $20, $60, and $150. (And in my opinion the $60 one is the best one.)"
I am aware of that in fact I own it. Lovely Dragon. But the dark green dragon of the original D&D set still occupies a special place in my heart.
If instructions will not pop up somewere, I'll try to build it in digital hoping to produce something enough good to be build. "
I think Ideas winners might be prohibited from making instructions for the original version available."
No, I don’t think so because Jonas Kramm has his Viking Longship over on Rebrickable for free. That’s the only example off the top of my head, but I’m sure there are others.
I'd comfortably walked away from both these sets.
But now...
I want to buy both.
Damn you, Huw!
@PurpleDave said:
" @HOBBES said:
" @Feroz said:
"I really couldn't choose, so I decided to go with the dice. 16 for Lion Knights' Castle, but a natural 20 for Red Dragon's Tale. There you go!"
If you have that sort of dice, you were already biased to the Red Dragon's Tale.
(or maybe that was the intended joke...)
Edit: I did some research as to when they both came to be and they are both very old. 6-sided dice is before recorded history and 20-sided dice is from around 300 BC."
I believe the only one that was invented specifically for D&D or any related predecessor was the d10. The d4, d6, d8, d12, and d20 were all borrowed in from a set of dice based on polyhedral shapes. The d100 _may_ have been created with D&D in mind, but the RPG itself had already gotten a solution by using an off-color d10 to represent the 10’s digit, so it was likely developed externally to T$R. And all the crazy variety of d-oddball dice that have popped up ever since are mostly either the result of someone either finding a very specific use that they could also figure out a die shape to resolve (d2 instead of flipping a coin, d7 for day of week, d30 for day of month, etc), or someone having too much free time and the use of a 3D printer (seriously, WTH legitimate use could someone have for a d57 except to say they have a wider variety of dice than the next guy?)."
I learned something today, thanks! :-)
As far as being biased: I have a lot of fun with my D&D group and even considered buying RDT so we could play it as game. But that would be a very expensive one shot. My nostalgia for LKC is very big and it is something I would have dreamed of building as a child. It is/was too expensive for me. In both cases I don't have room for it. I even made a list and came out even. Like more have said, this really is the hardest choice so far.
Maybe it was more correct not to choose this time, but the solution seemed very appropriate.
Wow. Tough match up.
@PurpleDave said:
".. someone either finding a very specific use that they could also figure out a die shape to resolve (d2 instead of flipping a coin, d7 for day of week, d30 for day of month, etc), ... "
I've a d30, bought many years ago (about thirty I suppose) during my main D&D period, but I'm not sure how I could have used it. Probably I never used it but I bought it just to have another fancy dice.
I remember there was almost spherical d100 too, but they ever attracted me.
This might be the most fair bout yet, because the sets are quite similar, the only big difference for me being the dragon.
I myself prefer the look of the larger castle without the dragon, so that one gets my vote.
For me there's no nostalgia involved, since I was never much of a Castle guy to begin with.
@TheOtherMike said:
"I think Ideas winners might be prohibited from making instructions for the original version available."
That's my fear too.
@Wallace_Brick_Designs said:
"No, I don’t think so because Jonas Kramm has his Viking Longship over on Rebrickable for free. That’s the only example off the top of my head, but I’m sure there are others."
You give me hope! ^___^
@Feroz:
I had actually noticed years ago that the d10 was the only one that didn’t have perfect polygons, but it wasn’t until the past year that I found out about the source of the other five dice. The d10 is possibly the inspiration for the d-oddball dice that 3D printing made possible. Two basic shapes have been modified to form the bulk of these dice. One is the “umbrella”, “cone”, or “parachute”, with the d10 being an example of a double parachute (think two WWII-style parachutes, and meld the two canopies together until all the strings touch). The other is the cylinder (I have some cylinder-style d10’s). Because both styles just use elongated polygons, all you have to do is change the width and add as many polygons as you like to change the count. They all basically form one ring, so the math is stupid simple compared to coming up with something like the d30, and the computer will do all the heavy lifting in that regard.
@Calabar said:
" @PurpleDave said:
".. someone either finding a very specific use that they could also figure out a die shape to resolve (d2 instead of flipping a coin, d7 for day of week, d30 for day of month, etc), ... "
I've a d30, bought many years ago (about thirty I suppose) during my main D&D period, but I'm not sure how I could have used it. Probably I never used it but I bought it just to have another fancy dice.
I remember there was almost spherical d100 too, but they ever attracted me."
I did buy a trans-purple d30, and don’t think I ever had an opportunity to use it. But I also bought half a dozen polyhedral sets when I needed was one new set to go in the Mimicaneer Dice Box. And I dropped $75 to get a single Mimic d20. And I’ve been eyeing some metal polyhedral sets, and cut gemstone polyhedrals, and, and, and…
I agree with others that this is the first "fair" comparison since they are similar subject matter from a similar 'theme/genre' and roughly similar price points (rather than reasonably cheap versus super expensive)
For me, easy vote:
LKC! LKC!
Either one of these would be deserving overall winner to me.
Tough. Tough business. Cluttered castle, or incomplete castle?
The way the D&D castle actually has a playable campaign embedded in the build makes it the winner for me. They're both superb builds--and although I like the red dragon well enough, I do wish we could have had the green dragon coiling around the turret as in the original submission!
@PurpleDave said:
" @Feroz:
I had actually noticed years ago that the d10 was the only one that didn’t have perfect polygons, but it wasn’t until the past year that I found out about the source of the other five dice. The d10 is possibly the inspiration for the d-oddball dice that 3D printing made possible. Two basic shapes have been modified to form the bulk of these dice. One is the “umbrella”, “cone”, or “parachute”, with the d10 being an example of a double parachute (think two WWII-style parachutes, and meld the two canopies together until all the strings touch). The other is the cylinder (I have some cylinder-style d10’s). Because both styles just use elongated polygons, all you have to do is change the width and add as many polygons as you like to change the count. They all basically form one ring, so the math is stupid simple compared to coming up with something like the d30, and the computer will do all the heavy lifting in that regard.
@Calabar said:
" @PurpleDave said:
".. someone either finding a very specific use that they could also figure out a die shape to resolve (d2 instead of flipping a coin, d7 for day of week, d30 for day of month, etc), ... "
I've a d30, bought many years ago (about thirty I suppose) during my main D&D period, but I'm not sure how I could have used it. Probably I never used it but I bought it just to have another fancy dice.
I remember there was almost spherical d100 too, but they ever attracted me."
I did buy a trans-purple d30, and don’t think I ever had an opportunity to use it. But I also bought half a dozen polyhedral sets when I needed was one new set to go in the Mimicaneer Dice Box. And I dropped $75 to get a single Mimic d20. And I’ve been eyeing some metal polyhedral sets, and cut gemstone polyhedrals, and, and, and…"
Any gamer will tell you: You can never have too many dice!
@TheOtherMike said:
"Any gamer will tell you: You can never have too many dice!"
_Most_ gamers will tell you that. Anyone who won't has probably been crushed under a mountain of dice.
That one is simple: 10305 is a Lego castle I dreamed of, no licenses included, yellow heads present, and I have it. Voted.
@PurpleDave said:
" @Belboz said:
"The D&D set was what brought me back to LEGO after almost 5 decades away (!!)
My wallet wishes it hadn't.....
Unfortunately, I suspect the Castle Mafia (a distant cousin of The Space Mafia) will hold sway
:-))"
It doesn’t help to have never had a Dark Ages, either. Besides buying the Ideas set, I also bought 125 of the minifigs, bought a few extras of the monsters from the set, bought four extra copies of the Mimic Dice Box (which I modified into a Mimicaneer, a Mega Mimic, and a Beholder Mimic), and built 21 minifig-scale Beholders (usually running $30 each), seven mini Beholders, a scene with a party of 13 Player Characters facing off against a Death Tyrant, and a minifig case that I’m nearly done filling with pre-fight versions of the same characters. All told, I’m well over $2500 in at this point."
I would love to see pictures of all that; it sounds incredible!
Lion knights castle was one of my first non Star Wars sets, loved it.
The D&D set looks lovely too but the D&D theme doesn't interest me and in that regards it's a little expensive for just the castle.
@PurpleDave said:
" @TheOtherMike said:
"Any gamer will tell you: You can never have too many dice!"
_Most_ gamers will tell you that. Anyone who won't has probably been crushed under a mountain of dice."
Fair point.
@PurpleDave said:
" @Feroz:
I had actually noticed years ago that the d10 was the only one that didn’t have perfect polygons, but it wasn’t until the past year that I found out about the source of the other five dice. The d10 is possibly the inspiration for the d-oddball dice that 3D printing made possible. Two basic shapes have been modified to form the bulk of these dice. One is the “umbrella”, “cone”, or “parachute”, with the d10 being an example of a double parachute (think two WWII-style parachutes, and meld the two canopies together until all the strings touch). "
D10 is just D12 with 10 edges protruded to change two opposite sides into points.
@McKern said:
"D10 is just D12 with 10 edges protruded to change two opposite sides into points."
I mean, you could do exactly that, but I’ve never seen a single instance where someone did. The geometry is heavily modified. The d12 is a fairly “cubed” shape, meaning it fits neatly into a space where X, Y, and Z are roughly the same dimension. And the d10 is also a pseudo-cubed shape in that same way. If you look at the equator on a standard d10, the angles are much flatter than they are around a d12. The tips are also compressed in towards the equator. If the d10 was exactly as you described, it would probably be 2-3x times as long between the tips as it is wide through the equator. The closer to a pseudo-cubed shape you can make it, the more even the weight distribution is, and the cleaner it will tumble after hitting hard table. If it’s shaped more like a football, how it lands on the tip could result in a die that launches higher than it started when you dropped it, or it could shoot off to one side and end up on the floor. One GM I played under insisted that dice that ended up on the floor had to be rerolled to count, so I could see him just banning an elongated d10 like that. If I ever saw one, I might buy it as a curiosity, but I don’t think I’d ever try to use it in a game.
This was a verrry tough vote. No matter which one I picked I felt like I'm betraying the other.
Both RDT and LKC have:
Layouts so big a minifig can get lost.
Weapons and treasure galore!
Secrets hidden in stone!
Water access. (Though no small water craft, dang it)
Pro differences:
One BIG structure vs. An Inn, a Tower, Wilderness, and the Dungeon (horrors!).
Two halves coming together to make a whole vs. An attempt at a modularly built layout, though not interchangeable. (a bit of a miss)
An Army + other factions, and citizens vs. An adventuring party + other....interests.
Horse and Ox vs. Beholder and Owlbear.
The little well by the kitchen vs. the cute dock by the Inn.
The Black Falcon procession including Patsy vs. The Dragon!
Minor Con Differences:
The front ramp should've had studs vs. the Dragon is a bit stiff.
Cramped Inn vs. Cramped dining room.
Unprinted Majesto vs. The dragon's head wants to come off.
There are no losers here!
@legomaster65 said:
" @PurpleDave said:
" @Belboz said:
"The D&D set was what brought me back to LEGO after almost 5 decades away (!!)
My wallet wishes it hadn't.....
Unfortunately, I suspect the Castle Mafia (a distant cousin of The Space Mafia) will hold sway
:-))"
It doesn’t help to have never had a Dark Ages, either. Besides buying the Ideas set, I also bought 125 of the minifigs, bought a few extras of the monsters from the set, bought four extra copies of the Mimic Dice Box (which I modified into a Mimicaneer, a Mega Mimic, and a Beholder Mimic), and built 21 minifig-scale Beholders (usually running $30 each), seven mini Beholders, a scene with a party of 13 Player Characters facing off against a Death Tyrant, and a minifig case that I’m nearly done filling with pre-fight versions of the same characters. All told, I’m well over $2500 in at this point."
I would love to see pictures of all that; it sounds incredible!"
So, I don't have a lot of photos posted, but here's what I can point you to:
https://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.php?i=6761072
This is an early photo of the Mimicaneer Dice Box. It has a peg tooth, an eyepatch, and a pirate bicorne. I have since added a hook tongue and a Jolly Roger flag. The Mega Mimic is just a really big version of the set (~3x the size) with six eyes. I also got one of the Crazybricks Mimics to go with them, but I'm having trouble finding a set of 2mm polyhedral dice to go in it, and 3mm is too large (and still difficult to find).
https://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.php?f=586291
And these are the only Beholders I've got posted. The basic design is spherical, like the 1st Edition artwork, and fairly easy to adapt into different color schemes or even some wacky designs (of the six I've posted, one is a blueberry, another is a shark, and a third is done like a photo negative). Of the other 15 not pictured, some of the standouts include a Minion Beholder, a Cave Beholder (GitD eyes, and the central eye is a 3x3 round tile), a Death Tyrant, a steampunk version, a spaceship that's actually piloted by one of the LGMs from the CMF Imposter, a Behimic (Beholder/Mimic hybrid), a Zombeholder, a Beeholder, two different Blacktron 1 Spyballs, and a beach bum wearing board shorts and sunglasses. I don't have any photos posted of the baby version, but a member of my LUG asked me how small I could make a Beholder. The main version is 16 studs in diameter, and the baby version can entirely fit (including ten eyestalks) within the amount of space occupied by a normal body, and they can even be displayed in those 2x4 or 2x8 minifig display cases. Coming in at just under 40pcs, however, the design isn't nearly as versatile in terms of color schemes. I've only made nine distinct designs, one of which is a mini Spyball, and another of which is a bejeweled statue. I'd like to make a baby Behimic, but I'd need to pick up another seven eye tiles to make that happen.
Not sure why I can't get the reply function to work.
@PurpleDave Thank you! Those are all great!