V-22 Osprey on eBay
Posted by Huw,
The cancellation of 42113 Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey at the last minute, and after it has been so widely distributed to small retailers, has resulted in eBay becoming awash with them at exorbitant prices as sellers hope to make a quick buck.
The majority of them seem to be from sellers in the UK and New Zealand, who have set 'buy it now' prices in excess of £/€/$1000, and it seems most auctions are reaching that sort of sum as well. It's difficult to know whether prices will tumble after initial demand has been sated, or whether there are so few of them in circulation that prices will continue to rise.
I've noticed that there seems to be two types of seller: scalpers who have purchased them cheaply and hope to make a vast profit by flipping them quickly, and small toy stores who received them directly from LEGO and who have now realised they are sitting on a gold mine.
If you're going to buy one, try to buy from the latter. At least then you'll be helping a shop stay afloat during difficult trading conditions. I purchased one last week, from a small toy shop in Sheringham, UK, for not quite the sum they are going for now, but not far off. I will review it as soon as it arrives.
If you're in the market for one you can use our eBay search tool to find them in your vicinity, and if you want to try to persuade LEGO to release the set after all you can sign this petition at Change.org although personally I think it's futile.
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81 comments on this article
I know price is crazy, but it would pay you mortgage for over a month if you sell one...
And if people are paying it then that's why prices are so high...
I would imagine that the likes of Argos might have a ton of them. I don't know what type of relationship Lego has with its retailers. Would Lego try to recall the set from retailers? Could they somehow punish retailers that don't return them? Or just not be very bothered and let it go?
I knew prices would be high, but this is just ridiculous. Not even 10-year old sets in MINT condition are worth almost ten times their original retail price! @nerick9006 is right, buyers are at fault here. If nobody bought them at these prices, the scalpers would have to drop them eventually. Patience is key
^ It rarely works like that though. Buyers don't communicate and strategise...
I doubt many of these will actually get built. To each their own.
This really sucks.
I wanted one of these just to build and have. To me it was one of my most anticipated Technic sets in years.
Now we're hearing it may not show up in any shops in the US at all.
@Brick_Belt said:
"Now we're hearing it may not show up in any shops in the US at all. "
Of that we can be certain...
Just goes to show how stupid this whole thing is.
1. Lego approve, develop and produce a set which took many months and cost €€€€€.
2. Lego package and distribute said set all over the world.
3. Lego decide that the set is suddenly the enemy of all they stand for.
4. Lego cancel and recall set.
5. Lego pi** lots of people off.
6. Set is plastered all over fan sites and gets loads of publicity and coverage.
7. After all this set is for sale anyway and all over eBay at hugely inflated prices.
8. Morels:Pay more attention at an early stage of development. Change your now outdated and shaky internal policies. Admit you made a cock up (points to them as they did do this). As you have come this far put the set on sale for those who want it, perhaps as an exclusive. Offer to take them back from those who buy it and are offended (would love to see this happen, I would expect very few, if any would be sent back!). Don’t do this ever again!
@huw is it worth doing an article on the "madness of the exclusive" Luckily for me I was not interested in this set, but I know I "wanted" the original Vegas set that was also cancelled. I have not attempted to buy it, but did try to make up a version with tan pieces of the missing hotel (and I know I will make it again in Gold if the parts are released on a future set). I only got the original last month, where I panicked and bought one off ebay for more than retail price as it looked like it was end of life. What drives people to spend non-sensical amounts on something. Do they build and proudly display as a "rare" model or do they keep to sell on later.....
I usually trawl ebay looking for a deal (that's how I got my hands on https://brickset.com/sets/10237-1/Tower-of-Orthanc). This particular set, doesnt hold too much interest for myself, but I think it's just a given that rare sets will always find a target audience. My golden rule is, if I cannot buy it at cost (usually when/if it's released), I will go no higher then 10% (possibly stretching to 20%). Lego is great, Lego is fantastic, but like many things, it sometimes is not worth the cost
@EvilTwin said:
"I would imagine that the likes of Argos might have a ton of them. I don't know what type of relationship Lego has with its retailers. Would Lego try to recall the set from retailers? Could they somehow punish retailers that don't return them? Or just not be very bothered and let it go?"
Lego apparently gave permission to sell the stock they had, rather than returning it. A lot of the ones on Ebay now will be from Argos - they put their stock online to order on Saturday morning. It had all gone by about 9:30!
LEGO used to tout this policy of not making weapons, but they never really followed it. Or at least it felt arbitrary to me. There's countless sets with medieval weapons, even the yellow castle had them back in the 80ies, but you could say that this is not the same as 'machines of war'. then there's all these franchises they produce now, Indiana jones had revolvers and german long guns, let's not even start about Star Wars. Every other set nowadays has built-in launchers with the "not in their eye" logo next to it.
What makes this heli different? the model is not even the military version. It all feels a bit arbitrary.
Here is an interesting thing about Osprey:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/comments/hygiqx/osprey_cancelled_due_to_design_flaw/
It may be that the whole thing was a cover up for a design flaw.
It would make sense if the design flaw was not enough to void the contract with Boeing, but the public pressure was.
@EvilTwin said:
"I would imagine that the likes of Argos might have a ton of them. I don't know what type of relationship Lego has with its retailers. Would Lego try to recall the set from retailers? Could they somehow punish retailers that don't return them? Or just not be very bothered and let it go?"
I was following this closely and Argos took the whole item and site down for the set in 24hrs :)
I think I'll just grab some popcorn.
If I would ever find one I would keep it for myself. If I find more I will sell it for the price I bought it for BUT will open the seals so it is no longer MISB
@Arnoldos said:
"Here is an interesting thing about Osprey:
https://www.reddit.com/r/lego/comments/hygiqx/osprey_cancelled_due_to_design_flaw/
It may be that the whole thing was a cover up for a design flaw.
It would make sense if the design flaw was not enough to void the contract with Boeing, but the public pressure was."
That is an interesting theory and maybe the peace protest was just the icing on the cake to cancel the set as LEGO's main moto is "only the best is good enough". If the set has a design flaw and the gear breaks during normal use it's worse than an image loss due to an inappropriate license deal. Also the rotor blades cannot spin while the engines are horizontal cause they touch the ground which is stupid. They made the blades too long.
A genuine mistake by TLG or a publicity stunt? Or a combination of the two?!!!
What’s the expression? A fool and their money are easily parted?
Funny thing with this one is working out who is the bigger fool, the buyer paying through the nose for a “cancelled” set or the manufacturer that let the situation arise in the first place.
In my mind both stem from greed overcoming good sense.
That’s my moralising done for the day. Cheerio.
Oh dear, what a fiasco this has turned out to be :-(
Looking at eBay sales in the UK I've been surprised at the sheer number of people willing to shell out 5x or 6x RRP for a decent but unspectacular set.
It'd be interesting to know how many are being bought to build, as opposed to hoard with a view to selling on at an even higher price in future. If its the latter I'm not sure I see much future growth in this set - while there's an interesting story attached to the set there are literally thousands of copies out there so hardly very limited.
Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong.
@Huw said:
" @Brick_Belt said:
"Now we're hearing it may not show up in any shops in the US at all. "
Of that we can be certain...
"
Do we know that 100% for sure? What I've heard is that what was shipped can be sold, but the US release was supposed to be later anyway so odds are they never got any shipments.
@Phoenixio said:
"Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong."
Nothing about it is illegal, retailers have been sanctioned to sell whatever stock they have. Old news.
I have asked my sister-in-law to keep an eye out for it. (She works in a well known toy shop). I doubt she will get any stock, but I would be mighty miffed if she 'DID' have stock and I just didn't bother to ask.
@fakespacesquid said:
" @Phoenixio said:
"Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong."
Nothing about it is illegal, retailers have been sanctioned to sell whatever stock they have. Old news. "
But that's not the same thing... If it's a massive recall of a product before its release, there could be consequences to those who do not oblige, no? Lego has teams scanning the net for the slightest picture leaks, so imagine unauthorized sales?
Noticed that a few UK retailers have or might sell their very limited stocks.
Argos, sold out within hours
John Lewis & Partners have it listed but OOS and hasn't been able to purchase
Smyths Toys is apparently going to have some
@Phoenixio said:
" @fakespacesquid said:
" @Phoenixio said:
"Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong."
Nothing about it is illegal, retailers have been sanctioned to sell whatever stock they have. Old news. "
But that's not the same thing... If it's a massive recall of a product before its release, there could be consequences to those who do not oblige, no? Lego has teams scanning the net for the slightest picture leaks, so imagine unauthorized sales?"
Again, it is not a recall. Stores that received shipments are allowed to sell what they got, and no further sets are being produced. They are not asking that any stores send back the product
@Huw said:
" @Brick_Belt said:
"Now we're hearing it may not show up in any shops in the US at all. "
Of that we can be certain...
"
That stinks a lot, this is the first LEGO set my father told me to send him a picture to see if he could find one after this whole craziness, this should have been released woth it's military colors on the 18+ line or at the very least thos set with the 18+ age.
@fakespacesquid said:
" @Phoenixio said:
" @fakespacesquid said:
" @Phoenixio said:
"Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong."
Nothing about it is illegal, retailers have been sanctioned to sell whatever stock they have. Old news. "
But that's not the same thing... If it's a massive recall of a product before its release, there could be consequences to those who do not oblige, no? Lego has teams scanning the net for the slightest picture leaks, so imagine unauthorized sales?"
Again, it is not a recall. Stores that received shipments are allowed to sell what they got, and no further sets are being produced. They are not asking that any stores send back the product"
That is exactly the case, as confirmed on the LEGO Ambassador network.
The Reddit post about a possible design flaw is interesting. I look forward to investigating that myself.
Surprised you had to go and buy one. With the release date so close I would have thought you'd have received a review copy by now.
@Duq
Apparently nobody received review copies. I was waiting on Sariel's review to drop after he reviewed the other two sets in the wave, but he didn't get a copy either. It would seem to me that Lego was already hesitant to release this, before that tiny protest.
@EvilTwin said:
"I would imagine that the likes of Argos might have a ton of them. I don't know what type of relationship Lego has with its retailers. Would Lego try to recall the set from retailers? Could they somehow punish retailers that don't return them? Or just not be very bothered and let it go?"
Lego stated that resellers who have the Osprey in stock will not be asked to return them, and are free to sell them:
https://www.change.org/p/lego-fans-urge-the-lego-group-tlg-to-release-the-lego-technic-set-42113-bell-boeing-v-22-osprey
On the issue of prices: it's only logical that prices go up. If the cost of a set would have legal maximum of € 130 euro they would be sold out in the wink of an eye, still leaving many people disappointed. If I were really rich I'd be happy to fork out a thousand euros for one, but alas.
I would also like to have a Van Gogh in my living room, or a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO for the weekends. It's not much use to get cross over the prices popular items command. That's just the way it is.
@Duq said:
"Surprised you had to go and buy one. With the release date so close I would have thought you'd have received a review copy by now."
For some reason it was not offered to any fan media sites.
Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now.
I'm wondering what LEGO will do with the sets that have already been produced, is there any chance we would see a set with a similar parts list and color scheme?
@Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
Surely you see the difference though. It's not difficult to riddle out why one is an issue and the other is not. There is no equivalence between the two. That's like comparing the Sopwith Camel to the Bell/Boeing Osprey, they are worlds apart.
@R0Sch said:
"Also the rotor blades cannot spin while the engines are horizontal cause they touch the ground which is stupid. They made the blades too long."
That's a feature of the actual aircraft though - if anything the rotor blades might not be proportionately long enough - they're just shy of 11.5m! The closest the V-22 gets to taking off like a conventional aircraft is with the rotors at 45 degrees - the nacelles are usually vertical for takeoff and landing, and certainly for storage.
I don't know if the set also goes through the pretty comple transition that allows the wings to fold up for storage on board carriers, but to do that and cross-connect the engines is as much an engineering challenge as the change from vertical to forward flight.
@R0Sch said:
"Also the rotor blades cannot spin while the engines are horizontal cause they touch the ground which is stupid. They made the blades too long."
That's not a design flaw in the Lego set, that's the way it is in the real aircraft. It takes off and lands with the rotors in the vertical position, then moves them to the horizontal position for high speed cruising flight.
@erithromycin said:
" @R0Sch said:
"Also the rotor blades cannot spin while the engines are horizontal cause they touch the ground which is stupid. They made the blades too long."
That's a feature of the actual aircraft though - if anything the rotor blades might not be proportionately long enough - they're just shy of 11.5m! The closest the V-22 gets to taking off like a conventional aircraft is with the rotors at 45 degrees - the nacelles are usually vertical for takeoff and landing, and certainly for storage.
I don't know if the set also goes through the pretty comple transition that allows the wings to fold up for storage on board carriers, but to do that and cross-connect the engines is as much an engineering challenge as the change from vertical to forward flight.
"
Thanks for the explanation. Good to know.
@fakespacesquid
You are one of the reason why I am not commenting here. Please restrain when you see my comments.
I can see no difference between 58 deaths and thousand of deaths or 1. Or between Sopwith or Bell. Just because one is 100 years older is no difference. Some people in your states are so ignorant that they believe life started with them or their country and there's no life, or culture outside US.
You and a few other, are guys who know everything and for the opinions you have I am happy you have exactly the world you deserve. Enjoy !
@fakespacesquid said:
" @Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
Surely you see the difference though. It's not difficult to riddle out why one is an issue and the other is not. There is no equivalence between the two. That's like comparing the Sopwith Camel to the Bell/Boeing Osprey, they are worlds apart. "
I'd say it's not much different, apart from the fact that Bell-Boeing receives a fee from TLG for the Osprey.
It's mostly the public opinion that makes the difference. If we'd all have got angry over the Sopwith, Lego wouldn't have produced one.
Hardly anyone cares about TLG issuing an Arc de Triomphe, ordered by Napoleon as a symbol for winning a battle where thousands died.
Seems wrong to review it. Given why they pulled it and how it’s playing out. Just furthers the whole situation. Wish we could just let it die.
@Huw
Please be kind and remove my option on being able to comment. It will be better for me just to read and not to waste time writing.
Thank you!
Avalaible on official Lego marketplace, aka Bricklink for £900- !
@Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
First of all, there's some sort of unspoken statute of limitations on violence. Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum, or has any personal connections to it. The Mandalay Bay shooting was just a few years ago, and many friends and family of the victims are still dealing with the ramifications today, and Lego releasing a set like this would not be appropriate. If you can't see the difference between killings thousands of years ago, and a massacre just a few years ago, I can't help you.
@Wrecknbuild said:
" @fakespacesquid said:
" @Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
Surely you see the difference though. It's not difficult to riddle out why one is an issue and the other is not. There is no equivalence between the two. That's like comparing the Sopwith Camel to the Bell/Boeing Osprey, they are worlds apart. "
I'd say it's not much different, apart from the fact that Bell-Boeing receives a fee from TLG for the Osprey.
It's mostly the public opinion that makes the difference. If we'd all have got angry over the Sopwith, Lego wouldn't have produced one.
Hardly anyone cares about TLG issuing an Arc de Triomphe, ordered by Napoleon as a symbol for winning a battle where thousands died."
That's just it though, no one has ever made a stink about a set like this before. The only time anything remotely close to this has happened was back when Greenpeace wanted them to stop licensing with Shell. Exactly the same issue. The heart of the thing is licensing. Lego has made VTOL aircraft and other tilt-rotors at least 10 times in the past, and they were never a problem because they never had military manufacturers on the box. The Sopwith wasn't an issue partially because it was very old and it had nothing to do with Lego's policy against modern military, and partially because there were no modern military companies attached to the set. The Osprey violates both of those.
Whether or not we agree that the set should have been canceled, we can definitely agree that it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how it got past everyone at Lego and no one thought to say something about the licenses
I really just want a copy of the instructions! Anyone know if they can be found anywhere?
@TheBrickshipyard said:
" @MugenLazlo said:
"Blame Germany. They're not even a real country anyway."
Ok well as an American living in Germany, I can assure you that Germany is a very real and functioning country. I'm proud to live here in fact. If you are going to blame someone, at least be accurate with the targeting as it was a peace group inside Germany, not the government, who vetoed the Osprey. Your comment is in poor taste.
Now, back to the topic, I am not surprised this is happening with the limited Osprey stock that entered the market. If the buyers with more money than sense are going to pay 4X the MSRP, then absolutely what seller wouldn't take advantage? What blows my mind is that 90% of the pieces in this set could probably be scrounged up from a modern technic collection or on bricklink. I don't know about those rotors if they are exclusive and of course there is the new battery/motor control box thing which will eventually filter into the lego market ecosystem from other newly released technic sets. So with just some patience, most people could eventually build this set for much less money. "
You do realize I was referencing a line from the South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut song Blame Canada, right? Instead of saying "Blame Canada", I wrote "Blame Germany". Try doing some research next time.
@Phoenixio said:
"Is it really safe for Brickset to advertise this, and its purchase through illegal means? I know collectors will jump on the occasion, but something about it feels wrong."
"Feels wrong"? C'mon, man- that's the problem with the world today. There's nothing "wrong"- just a tiny minority who wishes the whole world held their morality and sense of what is "right". And what do you mean "illegal means"? It's a toy set, not actually classified military equipment. THAT'S the mistake TLG made.
@tfcrafter said:
" @Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
First of all, there's some sort of unspoken statute of limitations on violence. Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum, or has any personal connections to it. The Mandalay Bay shooting was just a few years ago, and many friends and family of the victims are still dealing with the ramifications today, and Lego releasing a set like this would not be appropriate. If you can't see the difference between killings thousands of years ago, and a massacre just a few years ago, I can't help you."
So in your logic, after 30 years more when all survivors would die and families and friends would not care because it is a thing 100 years ago, it would be possible to find a replica of a nazi concentration camp ?
Inside Colosseum, slaves or "exotic" people from far away, or other religions people were slaughtered AS A SHOW.
There are protest on the streets now against Columbus and despite the fact slavery is illegal for a longtime and for many generations ago. People are nowadays visiting Africa to "return home".
I know in your culture the hypocritical expression "too soon?" was invented.
Why for some sets is "too soon" and why for others is "Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum"? I feel sorry for the victims but I don't think one small toy replica in a Las Vegas skyline is so disturbing.
Should we recall and destroy all the types of cars that were involved in a car crash not to offend the families? Let's destroy all the planes because one felt down and killed hundreds of people.
I was speaking about hypocrisy. Not against Colosseum or Bell or other.
It is funny how the weapons (including the assault ones) are untouchable in your wise and very politically correct countries but that Hotel and thousands of families of the Mandalay employees are not.
@Huw said:
" @Duq said:
"Surprised you had to go and buy one. With the release date so close I would have thought you'd have received a review copy by now."
For some reason it was not offered to any fan media sites."
So qe can make the assumption that the company was seeking to not release this at all and found an excuse to do so in the tiny protest.
Lending more credibility to the theory that the design flaw was the primary driving force of the cancelation.
I hope this is a wake up call to LEGO that they need to stop grabbing licenses for the sake of licenses. I feel like in recent years there have been themes that have been close to bring a bit... much,
First off there’s this dumpster fire. Why didn’t they just make this a generic rescue Technic plane? I’m of the opinion that this set shouldn’t have been made in the first place if whether or not releasing it is a hot-button issue. People shouldn’t have to debate whether or not you help fund a war with a set because of the person you got the license from. That just shouldn’t happen.
Also, I feel like certain LEGO licenses lean a bit too much into sex, violence, and other more adult things for the toy company. Yes. I know teens and adults collect LEGO, but there comes a point where seeing a LEGO version of a certain IP is a bit awkward. Heck, Overwatch got away with the word “Hellfire” in a set description, The Big Bang Theory and Simpsons have their fair share of sexual jokes/violence, and one Indiana Jones set included a guy who got shredded to pieces by a plane propeller.
I’m not saying LEGO should be all “squeaky clean”, but the things they choose to license seem to be conflicting with their values. Well, whatever those are at this point.
LEGO don’t mind you reviewing one?
@Felix_Mezei said:
" @tfcrafter said:
" @Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
First of all, there's some sort of unspoken statute of limitations on violence. Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum, or has any personal connections to it. The Mandalay Bay shooting was just a few years ago, and many friends and family of the victims are still dealing with the ramifications today, and Lego releasing a set like this would not be appropriate. If you can't see the difference between killings thousands of years ago, and a massacre just a few years ago, I can't help you."
So in your logic, after 30 years more when all survivors would die and families and friends would not care because it is a thing 100 years ago, it would be possible to find a replica of a nazi concentration camp ?
Inside Colosseum, slaves or "exotic" people from far away, or other religions people were slaughtered AS A SHOW.
There are protest on the streets now against Columbus and despite the fact slavery is illegal for a longtime and for many generations ago. People are nowadays visiting Africa to "return home".
I know in your culture the hypocritical expression "too soon?" was invented.
Why for some sets is "too soon" and why for others is "Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum"? I feel sorry for the victims but I don't think one small toy replica in a Las Vegas skyline is so disturbing.
Should we recall and destroy all the types of cars that were involved in a car crash not to offend the families? Let's destroy all the planes because one felt down and killed hundreds of people.
I was speaking about hypocrisy. Not against Colosseum or Bell or other.
It is funny how the weapons (including the assault ones) are untouchable in your wise and very politically correct countries but that Hotel and thousands of families of the Mandalay employees are not."
I thought you swore off commenting?
Regardless, the fact that you can't see the difference between pulling the set to remove Mandalay Bay vs a set from Ancient Rome is all that's necessary. Not really much I can add to that. There is a fundamental difference, and if you can't see it now then there's nothing I can say that will illustrate it.
Also Canadians didn't invent the phrase "too soon", not sure where you're pulling that from
@Davian said:
"Lending more credibility to the theory that the design flaw was the primary driving force of the cancelation."
Very very very unlikely. If there was a design flaw, they would fix the issue and quietly rerelease it sometime later in production.
Well I'm pretty sure the price of this set will continue to skyrocket, unless LEGO decides to release it for some reason. That'll be funny if LEGO did
Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D
Glad I would not buy it.
I like this thread. It's very embarrassing.
@jockos198 said:
"Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D"
If I recall correctly, a few sets that were listed but never released are in the database! I think it was Chima that had a few that didn’t come out.
@jockos198 said:
"Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D"
It will probably be left as is
Some examples: https://brickset.com/sets/21038-1/Las-Vegas (some were in Africa), https://brickset.com/sets/3868-1/Phineas-and-Ferb (outright cancelled, but the instructions are online, which means the set was very close to be on the market IMO)
"Also the rotor blades cannot spin while the engines are horizontal cause they touch the ground which is stupid. They made the blades too long."
This is accurate to the real MV-22 Osprey. Each rotor diameter is 38 ft (11.6m)! It can do short take-off with the rotors tilted at 45 degrees.
@Felix_Mezei said:
" @tfcrafter said:
" @Felix_Mezei said:
"Because some people asked, I must say that when a set is to be found on shelves on a specific date, LEGO is already sending in some countries or to some retailers with weeks before. The retailers who received already are allowed to sell the helicopter but I think nobody will find it on shelves since on eBay the set is priced at 1,500 euros.
I wonder what will happen with the launch of the November Creator Expert, Rome Colosseum?
In that building, hundreds of thousands of people were slaughtered by other people or by animals, simply for the fun of the crowd.
The first Las Vegas (21038) was retired because a criminal killed 58 people from a hotel which is not a building made to kill people.
The hypocrisy dictates everything now."
First of all, there's some sort of unspoken statute of limitations on violence. Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum, or has any personal connections to it. The Mandalay Bay shooting was just a few years ago, and many friends and family of the victims are still dealing with the ramifications today, and Lego releasing a set like this would not be appropriate. If you can't see the difference between killings thousands of years ago, and a massacre just a few years ago, I can't help you."
So in your logic, after 30 years more when all survivors would die and families and friends would not care because it is a thing 100 years ago, it would be possible to find a replica of a nazi concentration camp ?
Inside Colosseum, slaves or "exotic" people from far away, or other religions people were slaughtered AS A SHOW.
There are protest on the streets now against Columbus and despite the fact slavery is illegal for a longtime and for many generations ago. People are nowadays visiting Africa to "return home".
I know in your culture the hypocritical expression "too soon?" was invented.
Why for some sets is "too soon" and why for others is "Nobody personally cares about the people that died at the Colosseum"? I feel sorry for the victims but I don't think one small toy replica in a Las Vegas skyline is so disturbing.
Should we recall and destroy all the types of cars that were involved in a car crash not to offend the families? Let's destroy all the planes because one felt down and killed hundreds of people.
I was speaking about hypocrisy. Not against Colosseum or Bell or other.
It is funny how the weapons (including the assault ones) are untouchable in your wise and very politically correct countries but that Hotel and thousands of families of the Mandalay employees are not."
People feel less personally attached to events when time passes. That's just a reality. But there's a difference between 100 years passing, and 2000 years. "My culture" did not invent "too soon," so I don't see where that's coming from.
There's a difference between purposefully killing someone, and cars and planes that were involved in accidents. The fact that you claim the Colosseum is a monument to the spectacle of slaughter but don't see the problem with a Lego Mandalay Bay less than a YEAR after the shooting goes a long way.
Additionally, Canada has an assault weapons ban so I really don't know where you're getting your information. Also Mandalay Bay is in the United States, not Canada. Automatically you assumed I was American, even though, beside my name, it says "in Canada."
I'm really interested in owning this set, and have wondered if I might stumble across it at a retailer nearby, but I also know for a fact there's a shelf clearer that lives in this same area that will probably get them all first before I even have a chance.
That said, I look forward to reading the review.
@matrox2001 said:
"Just goes to show how stupid this whole thing is.
1. Lego approve, develop and produce a set which took many months and cost €€€€€.
2. Lego package and distribute said set all over the world.
3. Lego decide that the set is suddenly the enemy of all they stand for.
4. Lego cancel and recall set.
5. Lego pi** lots of people off.
6. Set is plastered all over fan sites and gets loads of publicity and coverage.
7. After all this set is for sale anyway and all over eBay at hugely inflated prices.
8. Morels:Pay more attention at an early stage of development. Change your now outdated and shaky internal policies. Admit you made a cock up (points to them as they did do this). As you have come this far put the set on sale for those who want it, perhaps as an exclusive. Offer to take them back from those who buy it and are offended (would love to see this happen, I would expect very few, if any would be sent back!). Don’t do this ever again!
"
Or just move on with your life and not worry over such a minor thing.
@jockos198 said:
"Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D"
It exists, so it will remain. At the moment the notes state 'This set has not yet been released'. In 2021 that will change automatically to 'This set was not released'.
As others have said we have entries in the database for sets that were cancelled far earlier in their lifecycle than this.
No point reviewing something that has been cancelled, unless you just want to stir up interest in the set "Streisand effect" style.
@jockos198 said:
"Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D"
The database contains unreleased sets that are well documented. In a few cases items that were never even officially promoted, but made it as far as packaging design. Check out the 'Unreleased' tag. If those are in the database, this set definitely belongs in the database.
https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Unreleased
@Huw said:
The Reddit post about a possible design flaw is interesting. I look forward to investigating that myself.]]
After checking the Studio file posted on eurobricks I am convinced that there is no design flaw in the set, it just lacks a fail safe for people not being careful with the rotor blades function. It is the only function directly connected to the motor (without a limited slip clutch) and the weakest part (8T gear) can get deformed if the function is engaged while the rotors cannot rotate freely (e.g. engines horizontal and plane sitting on the table). You can check my reply on the reddit post.
@yuffie said:
" @MugenLazlo said:
" You do realize I was referencing a line from the South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut song Blame Canada, right? Instead of saying "Blame Canada", I wrote "Blame Germany". Try doing some research next time."
Blimey, I can't see anyone picking up such a hidden reference from a film released 21 years ago. I didn't and it was one of my favourite films in the 1990s.
That aside, it does seem slightly odd to review a set that nobody (unless they have more money than sense) can actually buy.
"
I'd say the opposite, given that roughly 1100 people will be able to actually build the set (and most of them won't open the box) I think it's a great idea to take a look at the build. I know I definitely want to see how it comes together and the leaked instructions don't really have the same effect as a good reviewer
Though if it were a design flaw it would be amusing to see LEGO fix it and somehow release the same set, but with some changes to get it by the 'protesters'..., which will then make the fools paying insane prices for this set feel really dumb for doing so.
@tfcrafter
Thank you for the way you answer with arguments !
I know very well you are Canadian and it is my fault I wrote today to you and to an US guy and hence the problem you observed.
I know the differences between Canada and US, and I even know the way US is looking at you as more common sense but not as "wise" as they are.
I understand your view about 100 years and 2.000 years tragedies.
What about the cars/planes that were purposefully used by pilots/drivers to kill people? Those are not accidents. Should we recall and destroy them?
A killer used a hotel room to kill 58 people.
Instead of letting a toy company to go on with their toy as they planned before the killing (it is not even a playable toy or a Mandalay dedicated toy) people decided to put it under the rug because things that we do not discussed doesn't exist. It would be a good discussion point to remember the tragedy and the innocent victims. Why we build monuments for tragedies victims if we are offended by a 2 inch segment of a toy?
You got me wrong. I claim nothing, I just say if we agree Mandalay is to be forgotten and erased from a set, than Colosseum should not be released. It is funny how you twisted my words to say I have a problem with Colosseum but not with Mandalay. One was dedicated to those times killing and one was used without "his" will to commit killings. You erase one and change the design but you come with a 700$ one in November. I am not against Colosseum but I was just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I wrote "I know in your culture the hypocritical expression "too soon?" was invented.", because it is an expression in English culture that you share between Canada, US and a few other countries and not a Vietnamese, Nigerian or Swedish one.
Despite your history is not so long, it seems a lot of things are rapidly forgotten and others are "too soon" if there's the need.
I am not so ignorant about history or geography to assuming you are American, even if so may childish nicknames are sometimes confusing (not your case), I saw near the name of your country like you see mine under my real name. I was just writing to you and another guy having in mind you share a more common culture area (it is like you say Eastern Europe or Russians to a lot of different culture countries in this area).
My apologies for writing to you as to an American one, at least in leaders you are worlds away.
This was a set that went straight on my wishlist when it was first announced. However, after seeing a review on YouTube that showed that the tilt rotor mechanism really didn't work very well (needing a helping push to make the rotors tilt), my interest was somewhat reduced. I may have still bought it, but only once it was at least 30% off on Amazon.
@fakespacesquid
As I was learning your language (in school starting from 1985) to be able to write to you today, I hope my learning is not so poor that you cannot understand what "You are one of the reason why I am not commenting here. Please restrain when you see my comments" means.
You don't need to "illustrate" or "add" anything to me.
Just to read and hopefully ignore my comments.
I have said I will not comment no more because it is a waste of time, but your beautiful nickname and questions made me lose a few hours today. It will not happen again.
I will write to you again when I will "identify myself" (I think your beautiful wise culture invented this option for the rest of the world) as a RealEarthShark.
Makes you think... The Osprey got exceptionnaly far for an internal TLC project (including the Boeing brand name). And then some eight years ago... they pulled the plug on teh Shaun of the Dead ideas set: "Opening ourselves to new product suggestions invites popular ideas that don’t always fit our brand. This is the first time we’ve felt that we should turn a LEGO CUUSOO idea down, but we’re grateful for the spirit behind projects like the Winchester and for the opportunity to be challenged. It keeps us sharp and looking toward the future of the LEGO brick."... which was a shame... especially since something like the "Stranger Things" IP got a very decent set which got a TV-14 rating in the US and 16+ in most of europe. Ah well... sometimes you just aren't aware of the line you crossed... It happens and proves we are all human. Now for 2021.. we need one more extra technic set, OK? :-)
@Felix_Mezei said:
" @tfcrafter
Thank you for the way you answer with arguments !
I know very well you are Canadian and it is my fault I wrote today to you and to an US guy and hence the problem you observed.
I know the differences between Canada and US, and I even know the way US is looking at you as more common sense but not as "wise" as they are.
I understand your view about 100 years and 2.000 years tragedies.
What about the cars/planes that were purposefully used by pilots/drivers to kill people? Those are not accidents. Should we recall and destroy them?
A killer used a hotel room to kill 58 people.
Instead of letting a toy company to go on with their toy as they planned before the killing (it is not even a playable toy or a Mandalay dedicated toy) people decided to put it under the rug because things that we do not discussed doesn't exist. It would be a good discussion point to remember the tragedy and the innocent victims. Why we build monuments for tragedies victims if we are offended by a 2 inch segment of a toy?
You got me wrong. I claim nothing, I just say if we agree Mandalay is to be forgotten and erased from a set, than Colosseum should not be released. It is funny how you twisted my words to say I have a problem with Colosseum but not with Mandalay. One was dedicated to those times killing and one was used without "his" will to commit killings. You erase one and change the design but you come with a 700$ one in November. I am not against Colosseum but I was just pointing out the hypocrisy.
I wrote "I know in your culture the hypocritical expression "too soon?" was invented.", because it is an expression in English culture that you share between Canada, US and a few other countries and not a Vietnamese, Nigerian or Swedish one.
Despite your history is not so long, it seems a lot of things are rapidly forgotten and others are "too soon" if there's the need.
I am not so ignorant about history or geography to assuming you are American, even if so may childish nicknames are sometimes confusing (not your case), I saw near the name of your country like you see mine under my real name. I was just writing to you and another guy having in mind you share a more common culture area (it is like you say Eastern Europe or Russians to a lot of different culture countries in this area).
My apologies for writing to you as to an American one, at least in leaders you are worlds away."
Thanks, no hard feelings! I just believe that there is something to be said about the passage of time lessening the personal attachment to tragedies. Not minimizing the heinous acts committed, but more so the personal involvement that people today may have with them. Such as the fact that people today won't get their feelings hurt by the Colosseum, but many will by Mandalay Bay.
Even Abraham Lincoln in the Lego Movie said "I had tickets to the theater tonight!" which makes light of his assassination. It doesn't diminish the tragedy.
I'm rather sceptical of the idea that the explanation that Lego gave for cancelling this set is a cover-up for a design flaw. I feel that if there was an issue with the design, Lego would have stated that, rather than do the whole "company policy" explanation.
Cancelling a set this late because of a design flaw would make more sense though.
@eMouse said:
" @jockos198 said:
"Might be an absolute off-topic, but Huw, Will you delete the set, as it's cancelled, or leave it as is, because my inner completionist can't rest :D"
The database contains unreleased sets that are well documented. In a few cases items that were never even officially promoted, but made it as far as packaging design. Check out the 'Unreleased' tag. If those are in the database, this set definitely belongs in the database.
https://brickset.com/sets/tag-Unreleased "
That would be an interesting topic for an article: the stories behind the sets that weren't released. We are familiar with the recent examples of Las Vegas and now the V-22 Osprey, however there are quite a few listed in the link provided, some of them even appeared in catalogues, so why weren't they released? I'm intrigued!
Whoaa... what a comment tsunami!
Lego may actually benefit of this cancellation - unique product with a story and publicity of their strong values.
Huw, a review of the product may be salt into fans’ wounds.. maybe next year?
I hate technic so I'm lucky in that regard, but yes, if there are sets out there they will be added to the rare hall of fame (real rare, not like the eBay "rare" on every OOP set) - chase is on.
It will be fun to do a survey - if you'll (theoretically) get a hold of one will you build it or keep it sealed ?