Plastic bags inside sets to be replaced with paper ones
Posted by Huw,
LEGO has just issued a press release concerning a $400 million investment to accelerate the company's sustainability efforts.
One of its aims is to make all packaging sustainable and recyclable by the end of 2025 and the first change to be introduced will be the replacement of the plastic bags inside sets used to package loose parts with paper ones.
After testing several prototypes with parents and kids over the last two years, FSC-certified recyclable paper bags will be trialled in sets starting next year.
Read the press release after the break then let us know what you think of this interesting and arguably long overdue initiative in the comments.
LEGO Group to invest up to US$400 million over three years to accelerate sustainability efforts
- Next step is to begin to phase out single-use plastic bags from LEGO boxes in latest move to make all packaging sustainable by 2025.
- Further investments will also be made in creating more sustainable products, achieving zero waste & carbon neutral operations, circularity and inspiring children to learn about sustainability through play.
BILLUND, September 15th, 2020: The LEGO Group today announced it plans to invest up to US$400 million – covering ongoing costs and long-term investments - across three years to accelerate sustainability and social responsibility initiatives. The company, which has made a series of moves over the past 10 years to build a better planet for future generations, believes it’s increasingly urgent and important to prioritise environmental and social activity.
The LEGO Group CEO, Niels B Christiansen said: “We cannot lose sight of the fundamental challenges facing future generations. It’s critical we take urgent action now to care for the planet and future generations. As a company who looks to children as our role models, we are inspired by the millions of kids who have called for more urgent action on climate change. We believe they should have access to opportunities to develop the skills necessary to create a sustainable future. We will step up our efforts to use our resources, networks, expertise and platforms to make a positive difference.”
As a next step, the company will begin to phase out single-use plastic bags used in LEGO boxes to package the loose bricks. This is part of its ambition to make all its packaging sustainable by the end of 2025. From 2021, Forest Stewardship Council-certified recyclable paper bags will be trialled in boxes.
Christiansen said: “We have received many letters from children about the environment asking us to remove single-use plastic packaging. We have been exploring alternatives for some time and the passion and ideas from children inspired us to begin to make the change.”
Moving away from the existing packaging is not a simple task and will take time as new material must be durable, light weight and enhance the building experience. Several prototypes made from a range of different sustainable materials have so far been tested with hundreds of parents and children. Children liked the paper bags being trialled in 2021 as they were environmentally friendly and easy to open.
Long-term investment in building a sustainable future
In addition to developing and implementing sustainable materials, the up to US$400million investment will also focus on a range of social and environmentally focussed actions to inspire children through learning through play, making the business more circular, and achieving carbon neutral operations. The activity will drive meaningful, long-term change aligned to two United Nations Sustainable Development Goals: #4 Quality Education and #12 Responsible Consumption and Production:
Children
By 2022, the LEGO Group aims to reach 8 million children around the world annually with learning through play through a range of activities with partners, in collaboration with the LEGO Foundation. It will build on its work with organisations such as UNICEF, Save the Children and local partners to scale up programmes that give children-in-need access to play and opportunities to develop life-long skills such as problem solving, collaboration and communication. In 2019, 1.8 million children were reached through such programmes. 25% of profits from the LEGO Group go to funding the LEGO Foundation’s projects, activities and partnerships.
Circularity
The LEGO System in Play inspires endless play possibilities that supports the principles of circular design – a product made of quality materials that can be used and reused. The quality, durability, safety and consistency of LEGO bricks mean they can be passed from generation to generation. Bricks made today, fit those made more than 40 years ago.
Programmes will be put in place to encourage people to donate their pre-loved bricks to children in need of play. LEGO Replay, which was successfully trialled in the United States in 2019, will be rolled out in two additional countries by the end of 2022. So far, LEGO Replay has donated bricks to over 23,000 children across the United States[1].
Sustainable Materials
Work will continue on the company’s Sustainable Materials Programme, which employs more than 150 experts, to create sustainable products and packaging. In 2015, the Group set a target to make its products from sustainable materials by 2030. It will expand its use of bio-bricks, such as those made from sugar cane, which currently account for almost 2% of its element portfolio.
It will continue research into new, more sustainable plastics from renewable and recycled sources, and join forces with research institutes and other companies especially those developing new recycling and bio-based material production technologies to find materials which are as durable and high quality as those used today[2].
The planned investments include both costs associated with the development of new sustainable materials and the investments in manufacturing equipment.
Zero Waste & Carbon Neutral Operations
The Group’s manufacturing operations will be carbon neutral by 2022. To achieve this, additional solar panels will be installed on all its factories and onsite capacity will be supplemented with the procurement of renewable energy. Further investments will be made to improve energy usage, for example by installing new systems that use ambient air in cooling processes during LEGO brick production.
Improved waste handling and reduction in water consumption will further reduce the Group’s operational impact on the environment. No waste will be diverted to landfill by 2025 and water use will drop by 10% by 2022[3].
Joining forces to have a positive impact
The LEGO Group will continue to work with organisations such as the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, World Wild Fund for Nature, RE100, UNICEF and Save the Children in order to create the greatest impact.
Christiansen said: “At a time when the world is facing numerous challenges, companies must take action to create a lasting positive impact on the environment and society. No one can do it alone. I urge companies, governments, parents, children and NGOs to continue to join forces to create a sustainable future for our children, the builders of tomorrow.”
Speaking about the letters the company receives about sustainability from children, Vice President, Environmental Sustainability, Tim Brooks said: “Children share the most fantastic and creative ideas about how we can be more environmentally friendly when they contact us. We respond to every letter and many are shared with the CEO and Environmental Responsibility team for further consideration. I love hearing from children. It’s the best part of my job!”
If you know a child that has an idea to help shape the LEGO Group's sustainability ambitions, visit LEGO.com/service to share it with Tim and the team.
[1] Since October 2019
[2] Partners include University of Budapest, University of Amsterdam, Aarhus University and consortia including Bio-speed (consortium consisting of Danone, L’Oréal, Michelin, Bic and Faurecia as well as the LEGO Group)
[3] Tracked against 2019 usage
We have an opportunity to pose questions to Tim Brooks later this week so if there's anything you'd like us to ask, let us know in the comments or use the contact form.
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191 comments on this article
Cool
that's cool but i'm honestly going to miss the see through baggies
That's a great step. I'll miss being able to see all the pieces in their bags, but this is massively more environmentally friendly.
Very good news!
Good news. There’s nothing like opening a bag and getting a whiff of that fresh ABS...
Cheers! I wonder how much it will affect polybags, or even CMFs, but this is a solid start
Good news! Not particularly for me, but my wife will be grateful; the one thing she really hates is when I'm building a new set and have to open the plastic bags. She can't stand that sound :-)
@fakespacesquid said:
"I wonder how much it will affect polybags, or even CMFs"
My thoughts exactly. I wonder if eventually blind bags and polybags will be replaced by reintroduced impulse sets.
I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority.
Great news. The company continues to impress. I often thought is was funny that they went for plant based plastic before plastic free packaging. Clearly the tooling in factories is just as complex a problem to solve. Still some wiggle room in set box size to reduce overall volume and therefore the shipping carbon footprint. A tricky balance there too with what the consumer values when looking at a high priced set.
Keep up the great work LEGO. We thank you for leading as well as investing in the future of play for all children, both young and old ??.
Great, can't wait until the Bricks are made of paper also.
It's a substantial, useful project and progress IMO. Each time I am ending up with the building of a set, I am truly upset with all those plastic bags that go to my bin, even if it is the dedicated one. On biggest sets it is a whole bunch of useless stuff that I throw away. That paper turn is a good move.
YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
Alternatively/additionally extend the usable life of manuals somehow.
Anyway, I hope LEGO Replay becomes available around here, that's a great initiative too!
A great step toward the future.
Yay! Fed up with all the plastic bags that turn up. Sets are getting bigger, piece counts are getting bigger - need less bags
Great news. I’m wondering how this will affect those who collect sealed sets. Will the quality of the paper deteriorate in the long run? Will the parts get loose in the boxes after a few years?
I mean they already use plant based plastic instead of regular ABS for some parts. I wonder when they're going to phase out ABS totally.
There's a certain excitement to seeing what parts are in a bag before you open it, and it'll be a mild shame to lose that. However it might also open an interesting opportunity to print bag-specific inventories on each numbered bag. Apart from that though, Ive always found the plastic bags a nuisance while building, the way they just refuse to stay crumpled up and out of the way, as well as how they take up like 80% of the volume of my bin afterwards, and for the most part I definitely wont miss them.
I hope they found a way to avoid papercuts - soft paper, rounded corners etc, though it might not be production-friendly.
But as much as I support this development there are so many ways for LEGO to get even more sustainability points almost immediately - 1) cancel collaborations with Adidas, Levi's etc (unnecessary and unrecyclable produdcts that no-one really needs and will be in landfills within a year); 2) dumb down the instruction manuals to reasonable '90-s levels (at least 80% reduction in paper waste); 3) slimmer down the boxes to bare minimum (you still retain the shelf presence and kids anyway don't use the boxes to store their creations or whatever the box-enlargement excuse has been); 4) reduce variety by 20% and don't retire remaining sets for at least 2 years - we're preferring better quality not mere quantity (the amount of new sets has become beyond reasonable and all the logistics and production adjustments etc just adds up - LEGO knows perfectly well by now which sets and pricepoints don't sell).
PS what ever happened to that plant-based plastic, I still haven't found the foliage set in any store.
@eiffel006 said:
"Great news. I’m wondering how this will affect those who collect sealed sets. Will the quality of the paper deteriorate in the long run? Will the parts get loose in the boxes after a few years?"
Is it possible for the unobserved bags inside the box to be both loose and contained at the same time?
^^ “ PS what ever happened to that plant-based plastic, I still haven't found the foliage set in any store.”
Wasn’t that a GWP?
It's ok, but what about future prices?
Finally! This was so overdue!
Is this a good initiative? Absolutely!
However... I have fond childhood memories of those crispy plastic bags. I loved and love these. Perhaps my greatest joy coming from my dark ages.
But again, times change. Good idea. Really.
* crackle *
Excellent idea and about time imo, I have to agree though there could protentially be other way to reduce waste, I like holdre007 suggestions especially the dumb down insruction manuals, I havent used a instruction manual in years always down load and use tablet / laptop when building so if some builders require more detailed instructions use online instead, And slimmer boxes could reduce the risk of components getting lose from the newer bags if they are tightly packed? Resulting in less transportation space required, All help the environment.
Would be great if they could also make the bags reusable? Due to my collection I cannot display more then about 25 sets at a time and use resealable plastic bags after throwing away the original plastic bags, I always recycle the cardboard boxes as I do not store these.
It was time to change the bag policy. Either paper bags or more parts in a bag.
Great idea!
Great. I wonder if the new ones can be used as food bags :)
I’m not sure if these paper bags are a good thing for the environment, or rather a marketing gimmick. Often, the environmental performance of paper is bad or even worse than that of plastic — with deforestation being a global issue as well.
As for me personally, I reuse the plastic bags for storing pieces. If opened with scissors instead of tearing them open, they are easily reusable. :-)
This is wonderful and long overdue
As long as it doesn’t affect any of the plasticisers this can only be a good thing.
This is great news. It is super ironic that the ABS user is one of the most environmentally conscious companies. I'm glad my favorite hobby has an ethical company behind it.
Good. What took them so long?
@Kynareth said:
" @eiffel006 said:
"Great news. I’m wondering how this will affect those who collect sealed sets. Will the quality of the paper deteriorate in the long run? Will the parts get loose in the boxes after a few years?"
Is it possible for the unobserved bags inside the box to be both loose and contained at the same time?
"
Schrodinger's bags and then you can have Schrodinger's sticker sheets too, both flat and nice or folded and ruined.
Smaller boxes would be a huge step towards reducing waste, lowering shipping costs and allow us to store more nib sets. But Lego knows that shoppers would hesitate to buy a $100 set the size of shoe box.
This is the best idea Lego has had in a long while, good job guys! Just make the bags from recycled paper, we don't need more cut down trees, for packaging that will be torn open anyway.
If you're worried about bags deteriorating or any other potential negatives, well... they've been in development for two years. I am sure they've got the crinkles ironed out.
Using recyclable plastics might be better for environment. Even if they use recycled paper for bags, usage of any paper is increasing deforestation. Have Lego shared any research on this topic or just made general statement plastic bad, paper good?
This is a great step! Question for Tim Brooks - I'm interested to know more about what the Environmental Responsibility dept plans to do to achieve carbon neutrality, as well as future plans for Lego Replay!
@greenhorn said:
"I’m not sure if these paper bags are a good thing for the environment, or rather a marketing gimmick. Often, the environmental performance of paper is bad or even worse than that of plastic — with deforestation being a global issue as well.
As for me personally, I reuse the plastic bags for storing pieces. If opened with scissors instead of tearing them open, they are easily reusable. :-)"
That was my first thought as well. Some of the paper bags grocery stores switched to turned out over their entire lifecycle, including production, to have a worse environmental impact than the thin plastic bags they were using.
I truly hope this is better for the environment as opposed to one of those corporate greenwashing activities that is not nearly as good as one would think it is.
Awesome.
@chrisaw said:
"Good news. There’s nothing like opening a bag and getting a whiff of that fresh ABS..."
Agreed! There is just something about the smell of brand-new bricks coming out of a bag!
This is good news going to paper! But speaking of paper, I was sad to read above that someone tosses the instructions into the recycle bin. I want to keep the instructions for the model I bought--why would I throw them away? Especially if the pieces are all sorted out and later I want to build the set again. :(
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
most plastics aren't recyclable because the facilities to recycle them are too expensive. the symbol on the plastic is there to tell you what type it is and then you have to compare it to your local recycling program to see if it is acceptable, it doesn't mean that it is definitely recyclable.
for the CMF's i'm sure they can come up with a waxed paper package that is durable enough and if not recyclable at least breaks down faster than plastic.
This is great news! The new bags are much better for the enviroment, great step forward!
One disadvantage I can think of already is pieces getting stuck inside the bag and thinking it is missing!
I guess I'll need to keep my plastic bags from sets now, who knows how valuable they will be 20 years on? I suppose they might then be qualified as "historical items" :)
I will definitely miss the old bags, though.
I always hated the plastic bags.
1. Opening them is like opening a bag of potato chips (crisps, for those across the pond). My kids end up with pieces flying across the room more often than they'd like.
2. They are minimally useful as part holders when you are building. They tear oddly (unless you use scissors, apparently), which often makes them susceptible to part spillage. And their semi-rigidity makes it difficult to find and extricate a part without spilling others.
3. They generate a *lot* of waste that typically cannot be recycled, as other posters have commented.
4. They are not useful for continued storage.
... there's more, but isn't that enough?
What I would like to see is the inventory of each paper parts packet printed on the side of the packet. Picture the section of the instruction book in the back where all of the parts are listed, with counts. Now imagine the portion of those parts contained within a given bag printed on the side of that bag. When I exited my dark ages, my first set was 42009. There was one part in there that took me forever to find because I had to search through several parts bags to find it - and it was "hiding " inside of something else. A part inventory on each bag would have completely eliminated that issue. I suspect it would also help prevent thousands of panicked calls to Lego about "missing" parts that are later found, right where they were supposed to be.
Parts bag printing does not need to be limited to content inventory. It can also include the portion(s) of the model being built (similar to what the instruction books do) with the contents. It could even include interesting design ideas, tips, or other content. These bags represent a considerable amount of white space that Lego will have at its disposal.
That said, I would enjoin Lego to avoid printing any content *with retention value* on the parts bags. They are meant to be torn, after all (unless they introduce resealable adhesive flaps... which can introduce all kinds of other problems).
Great news! And I'm not gonna miss the plastic bags as I always hated to open them.
Thats very good news. I hope LEGO uses recycled paper.
And now, please LEGO, reduce the size of your manuals. No one needs a 200 pages manual for a 50 parts set! That became really ridiculous... The paper and color needed for this nonsense can't be much sustainable!
I'm super happy with this change, it pains me the amount of bags that are left behind after building.
No matter how much joy tearing into them gives me, it all goes away when I see them all...
@Gataka said:
"
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
"
Try this when you have 2 kids around and only one screen and both want to build something else
Yay! Now also get rid of the bag-in-bag minifigure pouches; they make it a pain to feel-hunt through the boxes. Using paper for a bag-in-bag wouldn't be feasible; it would get torn apart.
The advent calendars will be a big beneficiary from this.
I just want to know how paper bags "enhance the building experience".
My biggest gripe with LEGO for years has been the single-use plastics that I'm sure most children just throw in the trash rather than recycle :,(
So I am very glad about this change.
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
Plastic can only be recycled a few times before it starts to degrade and has to be thrown out. While the same thing is true of cardboard, it's wayyy faster and less harmful when it comes to biodegrading. The only truly infinitely recyclable materials are glass and metal, but I don't expect to see those in Lego's packaging any time soon.
Excellent news.
I understand there's more to plastic pollution than what it does to the ocean, but I wonder how big a factor the polluting of the oceans with plastic is with this new initiative. The issue with paper and trees is certainly valid, but trees can be replanted; cleaning plastic out of the oceans is far more problematic.
I have to imagine that this paper would store about as well as the cardboard boxes themselves, which stand up to time pretty well as long as they're kept in a dry space.
Wait so will I not know what's in them until they're opened?
Somehow I feel like that’s a pretty big change.
@Gataka said:
"YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
Alternatively/additionally extend the usable life of manuals somehow.
Anyway, I hope LEGO Replay becomes available around here, that's a great initiative too!
"
Not a fan of digital-only instructions. On long builds you need either a cable connected to the computer/tablet all the time or you get forced breaks that don't fit to your build schedule. And you lose a convenient "checklist" trick by putting the parts of a complicated step on the manual itself: if you flip the page after forgetting one part you notice it by it falling off. And: on the UCS sets the manual got more "screen" size than common tablets.
I personally feel this is heavily disregarding kids with special needs.
Some conditions you will feel uncomfortable from certain textures and paper/rough cardboard would be one of them
While I'm certainly thrilled that LEGO is continuing to experiment with sustainable products, (and fully commend them for it) I must admit that I was actually a bit sad when I saw this. There is something so special (at least in my opinion) in being able to see the parts inside each bag, and hardly being able to wait to get to a certain bag because you see a rare or cool piece that you maybe don't have. For me, there's honestly something almost magical in that experience that will certainly be missed. As I said though, I'm happy about the decision in the long run, but just wanted to share my thoughts!
I actually checked if the plastic inner bags are able to be recycled at the weekend as the new Harry Potter set has loads of them - it seems that in the UK they can be put in the recycling bin but the details were very vague and it seems to depend on the local authority in question. I am all for the change and the amount of inner packaging has bothered me for some time - back in the late 70's / early 80's average sized sets had no inner packaging at all and all parts just rattled around in the box to be tipped out when the build started. Large sets were a different matter with plastic inner trays, polystyrene lined boxes and all sorts of stuff which would be far from acceptable now...
@Hybryda said:
"I'm super happy with this change, it pains me the amount of bags that are left behind after building.
No matter how much joy tearing into them gives me, it all goes away when I see them all...
@Gataka said:
"
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
"
Try this when you have 2 kids around and only one screen and both want to build something else
"
Already disliked that with the old Mindstorms NXT 2.0, its Lego, while the Mindstorms series had a programming aspect, I want to be away from the screen when doing anything with Lego (until the programming part comes).
I also feel like all the "digitalization" of Lego is a misguided attempted of trying to create interest for kids more interested in things like videogames. Kids that dont care about Lego or any creative Building toy, just dont care about it. What toys they like is their own descision and you cant change that, no matter how much you can invest in marketting campaigns. On top of that, most of Lego's attempts at things like the mobile market never really reach the quality of what theyre inspired by. (Just compare Hidden Site and Pokemon GO, kind of a stretch, but both are augmented reality games made to sell/advertise a prexisting property)
According to the boxes, in the US and Canada the plastic bags are not recyclable. So I will be very happy to see the switch to paper. About eliminating physical instructions and going digital-only: horrible idea. Not everyone has reliable internet access. If a household has only one screen, and kids are doing distance-learning, parents working from home,etc., how is a kid supposed to build a Lego set? What about sets donated to charities? The instructions could be improved to use less paper: there's a lot of blank space on most pages.
@560heliport said:
"According to the boxes, in the US and Canada the plastic bags are not recyclable. So I will be very happy to see the switch to paper. About eliminating physical instructions and going digital-only: horrible idea. Not everyone has reliable internet access. If a household has only one screen, and kids are doing distance-learning, parents working from home,etc., how is a kid supposed to build a Lego set? What about sets donated to charities? The instructions could be improved to use less paper: there's a lot of blank space on most pages."
Thats another problem, they either need people to have constant internet or provide some form of data storage with the instructions, but latter requires a pc (which not all people have nowdays) and also needs even more resources. On top of that, the instructions for some sets are WAY too slow, even if you have some sort of learning disorder, which id assume is the people its trying to help, youd feel insulted. Theres sometimes 4 pages for putting on 3 parts, simply changing that would already decrease their size. Ignoring even sets targetted at kids, even the adult oriented ones have that problem, but not as extreme. I get simplyfying the instructions for something marketed to 5-7 year olds, but why thats done with something like UCS sets is beyond me
...And there I was thinking the plastic bags were recyclable. :P
I'm going to miss the transparent bags and that feeling of opening one, but that's no reason not to make the change! Hope they're serious though and it's not just a ploy to cheapen the production even more.
@Gataka said:
"YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best."
As annoying the "big boxes" are in terms of expectation vs. reality, there's probably the same logic in that as in potato chip bags holding as much air as they do actual contents – decreased fragility. When pressure is applied, the more stuffed a box is, the more likely it is to burst instead of simply getting crumpled.
Granted, there is undoubtedly also a marketing aspect in this (I personally have always felt easier paying big bucks for a big box, so there's that).
Altough i support being eco friendly, what with humidity and temperature impact on bricks. It will be more difficult to order sets through internet in winter.
One of the things to keep in mind is the degradation of plastic vs paper. Paper actually is degradable and can be completely gone within a short time. Plastic doesn’t degrade, it usually just breaks into smaller and smaller pieces. That’s why it is so bad for the environment. Micro plastics are a huge source of pollution in all of our water sources, there is plenty of information on that out there if you take a look. Sure that can be reduced by recycling. The only problem is that recycling just doesn’t happen in what seems to me like most places. I’m in the US, and 2 out of the 3 states I’ve lived in didn’t have recycling programs. I’ve watched the landfill truck pick up both garbage and recycling containers from our house. Finally, that brings us to scale. After working in medicine and seeing the sheer scale of disposable plastics used there, I am convinced that disposable plastics outweigh everything else by... well by a lot. I think plastic is great, and I definitely still want to use it. Maybe we will discover a new material to replace it in the future, but for now, we should definitely seek alternatives to single use plastics. Save it for the good stuff like our bricks!
Just please don’t make the price of the sets go up even more than they are now. Points for trying to be sustainable, but LEGO as a hobby is too pricy.
Also, while they’re at it, maybe tone down stuff like party decorations or look into making miscellaneous content like that also recyclable. I’ve seen a bunch of TLM 2 stuff still warming the shelves at Party City.
Other than that, good idea! I don't mind the plastic bags being swapped out too much so long as everything is in them.
@CCC said:
" @Nordbart said:
"I mean they already use plant based plastic instead of regular ABS for some parts. I wonder when they're going to phase out ABS totally."
I cannot see them ever phasing out ABS or any equivalent "hard" plastic. Softer plastics are fine for some parts but if they want to keep their bricks reusable for generations, then they won't move away from ABS. Of course, they might be able to move towards sustainable ABS, where the individual monomers are derived from crop based sources rather than oil, but that is still rather expensive. And also may not be so sustainable when forests have to be cleared to plant enough crops for plastic manufacture. However, sustainable ABS and oil-derived ABS will be the same in terms of neither being recyclable."
In the sense of being recyclable, isn't ABS capable of being re-molded? I could envision a scheme where Lego re-molds some less important parts using damaged pieces collected from like the Replay program, or some other recycling scheme.
Now they just need to replace these plastic bricks.
Great article! This is really good news.
Question: is this going to effect CMFs or polybags? I would hate for them to move to boxes or bags that prevent the ability to feel for certain characters.
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
Studies have shown that paper is not necessarily better or less impactful than recyclable plastic (the matter of drinking straws being one recent example), but we'll assume Lego did the diligence on this particular transition and that it is a net gain for the environment.
I think the downside here, aside from the nostalgia of opening the plastic baggies, is for those who keep sealed sets and/or resellers, which is the ability to see through the sealed bags to ensure all the parts are present without opening them.
I could finally open bags in the middle of the night without waking up the entire neighborhood!
Good move, hopefully they shrink the boxes next as most are at least twice as big as they need to be.
A welcome change. I’m generally apathetic about most things, but plastic waste is just madness to me.
It is the case where company thinks it does everything for ecology but in real it is doing opposite.
Its good that its sustainable and all, but one of my favorite parts of the build was tearing open the crinkle, clear plastic bags. Now they look like mass produced oatmeal bags.
At least with the paper bags less bags will be stolen as people tend to steal the bags with figures
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
It show's the recycling symbol on it, but in many place it really can't be recycled. There isn't really a market for it and ultimately ends up in landfills.
The real value of paper is that it is considered to some degree Carbon neutral and technically could be composted.
@greenhorn said:
"I’m not sure if these paper bags are a good thing for the environment, or rather a marketing gimmick. Often, the environmental performance of paper is bad or even worse than that of plastic — with deforestation being a global issue as well.
As for me personally, I reuse the plastic bags for storing pieces. If opened with scissors instead of tearing them open, they are easily reusable. :-)"
As someone who planted trees and managed tree-planting projects for the forestry and oil industries in Canada for over 15 years, I am pretty sure TLG will use sustainable sources for its paper bags. Deforestation, these days, doesn't come from the Western World forestry industry, but from other businesses that target the land and operate in jurisdictions where there are no, or weak, land reclamation laws and regulations (usually in developing countries). I'm not saying it is not an issue, and tremendous work needs to be done to address it, but I doubt TLG will move on from oil partnerships to dive right into deforestation.
Also, despite all our good intentions for recycling those plastic bags, many don't end up being recycled, as the infrastructure is maxed out in many places and the items intended for recycling ending up in landfills anyway. That's not counting the plastics that won't make it to the recycling facility for various reasons, including lack of interest, laziness, or poor infrastructure for a proportion of users/consumers. And that's not counting that gigantic floating batch of plastic in the ocean, which I'm sure contains a lot of recyclable stuff.
Paper is biodegradable, and is a renewable resource, giving good - if often extremely hard - jobs to many (and despite all those drone promises, are far away from being replaceable). It is therefore more sustainable than plastic even with minimal engagement or effort from the population at large. And it is also recyclable.
Count me in, and about time!
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
It depends where you are. In the US, in my area at least, you can not put them in your recycling bin. There is debate about whether you can take them to the grocery stores where they collect plastic grocery bags for recycling. I don't believe they can go in that recycling, because those bins are for 2 and 4 plastic (the flimsy filmy kind) not this stiff kind of plastic bag (5). So in short, I do not believe 5 plastic bags are recyclable, in most places in the US.
Dear TLG, just bring the classic boxes back and manufacture them from renewable plastic. Problem solved.
I have not read everything but would not some kind of zip-bags (non-plastic) for larger sets be an good idea? Someone suggested an invetory print. That and zip would be perfect!
Whatever they want to do, it isn’t like we will stop buying the brick...
But I recycle all of the numbered bags. So o let the smaller inner bags aren’t recycled because they don’t have the imprinted number signifying they can be recycled locally.
So now it just goes into a different recycle bin. Oh well. Plus you know tons will just throw away the paper (which should degrade easier at the dump vs plastic).
@greenhorn said:
"I’m not sure if these paper bags are a good thing for the environment, or rather a marketing gimmick. Often, the environmental performance of paper is bad or even worse than that of plastic — with deforestation being a global issue as well.
As for me personally, I reuse the plastic bags for storing pieces. If opened with scissors instead of tearing them open, they are easily reusable. :-)"
My thinking exactly. I’m longer in the tooth than some (most?) AFOLs and remember when everyone was moving away from paper use because of deforestation. Back then, the mantra was ‘Plastic good. Paper bad.’ I expect it will switch back to that eventually, maybe when we have more widespread plastic recycling or cheap biodegradable plastics.
I also re-use the plastic bags for storage.
@RonnyN said:
"I could finally open bags in the middle of the night without waking up the entire neighborhood!
"
What do you mean neighbourhood? Each time you open a bag, I’m thinking ‘Damn it, Ronny. Can’t you do that more quietly?’ And I’m thousands of miles away on a different continent. Good thing there’s a time difference between us and therefore your night is my day! ;~)
A question for Tim Brooks. This decision will change the sets in polybag form?
Bravo!
@Snazzy_Bricks said:
"Yes, environmentally friendly. Remove the plastic bags and replace them with paper. Where do they get the paper, you might ask?
TREES.
If plastic is a problem, are they going to start selling us paper BRICKS, too?"
The bricks are infinitely reusable until the heat-death of the universe. The plastic bags are not. That's why the bags are an issue
Excellent move. I've been adding this comment in their surveys for a while now. Along with using paper bags in stores, which I believe they do in UK now.
Bags are thrown away most of the time, or tear anyway, so changing to paper is good.
Also less plastic cups, straws and forks in food places, so this goes with the trend.
When it comes to one-use items, Wood/Paper is still way more eco-friendly for throwaway waste, compared to plastic bags.
I feel like this is such an amazing new step in the right direction!
My eyes.... at the kids Ripping the paper bags :(
Sounds good tho
this is a great idea by lego and is well overdue, but it will now be intresting to see how the bags stand up to being used several times as i tend to build,display then pack away for another day. but this is great for the Enviroment. well done lego
I don't like the idea. Every once in a while you pour out the contents of a bag and a small piece might get stuck inside....with plastic bags you might be able to catch that or find it faster than with a paper bag that you now have to hold up to the light so you can look inside it or feel around for the piece and you have to check all the bags you just opened. But whatevs it's no big deal to me
I'm not sure that "we look to kids as our role models" is awe-inspiring... We teach kids right and wrong, right? (My job is working with teens.) Yet it's a toy company.
Anyway, being better stewards of our planet works for me. If this is that, let's do it--back to teaching our kids! I do find it ironic that in the 90s using plastic bag was the environmentally friendly option since it didn't cost a tree. Ahh, life and history...
That’s great! Probably get rid of the issue where every none of the corners wanna tear. Although I will miss the plastic ones in some way
They could have kept see through bags, by making them out of Futamara natureflex, which is made from woodpulp. Teapigs, a British base tea company use this, this and it works well.
The difficulty with paper bags is ripping and loss of keeping sets organised in the numbered bags to follow instructions when building complicated sets. Although, some of plastic bags had this problem too.
There goes my building of advent calendar mini-builds while they're still in the package strategy ... but the move to paper is all-around a good thing :)
YAAAAAAS!!! I've been waiting a long time for this! Not only is it incredibly more environmentally-friendly than plastic, but it'll also make scalping minifigures a lot harder for eBay sellers! Win-win!
@LuvsLEGO_Cool_J said:
"This is good news going to paper! But speaking of paper, I was sad to read above that someone tosses the instructions into the recycle bin. I want to keep the instructions for the model I bought--why would I throw them away? Especially if the pieces are all sorted out and later I want to build the set again. :("
Makes me sad too, but I have to throw them away because space is limited. For the (rare) occasions where I want to build a set again, I just download the manual. Not the best experience but it works.
Ideally I'd keep them all or at least give them to someone who wants them, but there's no practical way to do so. So I just keep the more important ones and let the other ones go.
@Volfogg said:
"I don't like the idea. Every once in a while you pour out the contents of a bag and a small piece might get stuck inside....with plastic bags you might be able to catch that or find it faster than with a paper bag that you now have to hold up to the light so you can look inside it or feel around for the piece and you have to check all the bags you just opened. But whatevs it's no big deal to me"
I feel like most people have been flattening bags for a while now to make sure that nothing got caught in a corner. If not, it's on you and it takes .05 seconds to do so. If these cause more pieces to get lost, it's 100% pure user error and not a design issue
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
Those arrow graphics on the bag just indicate what kind of plastic it is. They don't mean commercial facilities to reprocess it exist anywhere, let alone near you. Being able to recycle a plastic is a function of its chemical makeup, its form, how expensive it is to process, and whether there's a market for the result.
Almost all Lego parts bags are polypropylene (PP; 5). Even without the symbol, you can distinguish PP by its crinkly feel and the way it rips cleanly. This stuff is basically not recyclable anywhere in North America (I don't know about the rest of the world). Even if your curbside program takes PP tubs, you can't put in the bags, because they're not able to be machine-processed in the waste stream that handles "normal" recycling.
A select few Lego bags (particularly the ones containing oversized pieces) are made of polyethylene (LDPE 4; also HDPE 2 in other uses). PE can be identified by the way it stretches when pulled before tearing apart. It usually doesn't form clean tears. This is the stuff that grocery bags, bread bags, ziplock bags, bubble wrap, and a whole host of other stuff is made out of. It is generally recyclable in North America, but is also not machinable, so cannot be put in a curbside bin. You have to take it to a specialized drop off, usually found inside grocery stores and other retailers. It gets ground up and turned into park benches.
If you put PP Lego bags into your grocery store collection bin, you will ruin the entire batch of plastic and cause it all to be sent to a landfill. Not a very green move.
If you put any bags in your curbside cart, you will cause big jams at the recycling center that increase operational costs, making the whole project less economically viable, and increasing the likelihood that your city's recyclables will be landfilled instead.
From an environmental perspective, PE is actually the way to go, as it's recyclable, lightweight, and low-impact to produce (unlike paper). But it also feels cheap (clone brands use it), and Lego probably didn't want that look.
This is good news, and I’m impressed by their commitment. I couldn’t care less about not being able to see the parts in the bags.
This is great and welcome news. The plastic bags are tagged as recyclable, but there are no facilities in my area that will take them. So they have to go in the trash.
Finally. While I was at the LIT last year they were going on about the plantbased plastics and I argued that the bricks are already as sustainable as they come, since I don’t know anybody that actually throws the bricks away. The plastic bags on the other hand are the definition of single use and thus this is where they could have a massive impact ( the amount of plastic to be « recycled » if the facilities exist, is enormous for the large sets). I was assured that they were looking into it, trialing paper, cloth, etc. I am really glad that they found a good alternative.
And keep the paper instructions! Many work the whole day in front of a screen. No need to continue watching a screen when building Lego. Just make the instructions less dumbed down and that will save a lot of paper.
I'm late to the party and have not read all comments but this is my take on it.
I will miss plastic bags, which I keep, so I will probably keep the paper ones too.
On the subject of Collectable minifigs... PLEASE make them in see through plastic and even numbers in each box. You WILL sell more as people can easily collect full sets rather than giving up when they get 4 of one..... Also recycle I am always pleased when I get a recycled lego box from ebay or bricklink and bricklinkers even see to re-use the see through bags..... which of course I keep......
From the article:
" A much bigger problem is the LEGO pieces themselves..."
As much as those reporting on the story want this to be true, the packaging is far and away main issue here. The pieces themselves are anything but "single-use" and they have maintained a re-usability standard that puts most of the industry to shame. My dad's bricks from 1976 have the same level of interaction with the rest of the system; for the past 50 years LEGO has been selling a product that doesn't become obsolete.
The LEGO Group knows how important this level of precision is to their products, and I hope they aren't forced into producing an inferior brick just because the mainstream consensus of 'PLASTIC IS BAD' drowns out the incredible sustainability of ABS LEGO Elements.
Great news!
This isn't about the bricks being plastic, it's about plastic packaging being thrown away 99% of times after opening.
Like packaging, plastic straws, plastic bags, plastic food holders, plastic cups, knife/forks/spoons etc typically are all one use.
At least some Drink bottles (plastic and glass) are recycled/refilled and part of the reason they aren't thrown away are because you pay like €0,25 extra for it which you'll get back by returning it to a store empty.
LEGO products themselves can last generations and older bricks have been compatible with current and future bricks as that's the goal, to be one cohesive system.
Of course there is still LEGO waste, typically electronic parts could wear out before normal bricks in long term use.
@Henry_D said:
"whats next , lego made of paper? This theater of environment concern is ridiciolus. You can ban plastic in all of the companies you know , the single coca cola gonna produce billions of bottles per year and nothing going to change , oh and btw theres china than gonna produce 10x as more per year"
"Other people won't change, so don't bother to try to make an improvement"? What a horrible attitude.
Bad news I think. In Norway we’ re way ahead the rest of the world regarding recycling glass, paper, bottles/cans and plastic. And what not recycled will be burned and turned into heat to heat buildings. Someone should look and learn.
"I agree. If there were fewer bags, there wouldn't be so many of them, numerically speaking." ;-)
OK, Monty Python quotes (or almost) aside, I am all for this initiative. Way too much plastic waste everywhere already. Now we just need to replace the ABS in the bricks with wood, or metal (there's an idea, just imagine the weight of say a Modular) and we're talking.
In next week's news: Lepin is going to replace its plastic bags with paper ones. :-)
But to end on a serious note, if TLG does indeed switch to digital instructions only, it will definitely be the end of me buying LEGO sets.
Building LEGO is one of the last completely analog hobbies of mine, and I love it for that.
As much as I enjoy BlueBrixx sets, the main reason why I don't buy even more is exactly because they offer only digital instructions.
Awesome! Now the bag won't explode when I hastily open it!
Great news! As only a small fraction of plastic is actually being recycled, and it can only be recycled two to three times compared to four to six times for paper, it is definitely a big step forward. The same goes with keeping more oil in the ground.
This is great news, particularly considering the availability of sustainably sourced wood products in the western world, the long-term fact that wood participates in the natural carbon cycle (which plastic simply does not), and that the bulk of plastic is not recycled correctly due to the complexity of the process and poor education of what consumers need to do.
And frankly, I look forward to opening "blind" bags in my sets, I think there will be a certain new level of excitement to be had in not knowing what pieces you're about to get!
We really out here applauding "sustainability" (PR) efforts by the company whose business model is literally to create indestructible garbage from fossil fuels? Whose newest major breakthrough is using recyclable plastic bags? By 2025?
I enjoy Lego as much as the rest of yall but let's not pretend our hobby is anything but detrimental to the planet's long-term health. The fact that they're trying to present an eco-conscious friendly image is hilarious.
A paper bag = two-years development? Are they kidding? A topic for two-hours development in China:-)
Also, Lego had to have CHILDREN tell them not to use single-use plastics in sets? lmao. really shows you their commitment to sustainability right there
With the massive amounts of plastic LEGO bricks that end up in sanitation dumps (among other plastics), this is the least TLG can do. I look forward to more environmentally friendly initiatives. Way to go TLG!
@eggsfooyoung said:
"We really out here applauding "sustainability" (PR) efforts by the company whose business model is literally to create indestructible garbage from fossil fuels? Whose newest major breakthrough is using recyclable plastic bags? By 2025?
"
Not applauding the bricks being plastic (nowadays some also made from Sugar Cane instead of 100% fossil fuels), but rather the cut back on waste from the bags in each set.
And to be honest, even the Sugarcane ABS is just as wasteful as the regular bricks as it's the same plastic, it just uses regrowable material instead.
Sets aren't thrown out on day 1, most plastic bags in the sets are.
Paper doesn't turn into microplastics in the oceans.
And yes, actual LEGO still washes ashore in some places where containers were lost in storms, so actual LEGO bricks still do cause waste as well, otherwise.
I have thrown LEGO pieces in the trash as well, but only when they were broken, and those pieces were all from the 20th century.
As for instructions, I do hope they keep the paper instructions, however I also hope they'lll cut down on multiple booklets on things like 3-in-1 sets.
@eggsfooyoung said:
"We really out here applauding "sustainability" (PR) efforts by the company whose business model is literally to create indestructible garbage from fossil fuels? Whose newest major breakthrough is using recyclable plastic bags? By 2025?
I enjoy Lego as much as the rest of yall but let's not pretend our hobby is anything but detrimental to the planet's long-term health. The fact that they're trying to present an eco-conscious friendly image is hilarious."
You and I have different definitions of 'garbage.' Lego bricks will continue to be useful and functional until the end of time, they are the exact opposite of single-use. They don't expire and they don't get thrown away (unless you're soft in the head) so they should be taking up no space in landfills.
I'm PRO caring for the environment etc. There's too much plastic wasted for nothing ...
But I just looove to see the bricks, parts of minifigs, special parts, treasures, ... in the next bag i'm going to build the other day, you know?
How 'bout the trees where they'll get the paper from, or did they mention it's all gonna be recycled paper?
It's a small step forward for a healthier environment (as long as the bags are made from recycled paper, which they do look like they are), but it sends a big message. I do hope other companies- toy and other- follow suit.
It's a small step forward for a healthier environment (as long as the bags are made from recycled paper, which they do look like they are), but it sends a big message. I do hope other companies- toy and other- follow suit.
To open LEGO set:
Step 1: dissolve in water
Step 2: Strain
Step 3: Build without instructions
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
Sadly, recycling doesn't work the same everywhere.
For instance, in France while in town A some types of paper (like the egg cartons or the inside of paper rolls) are recyclable, they aren't in some other towns. And I think it's even worse for plastic.
Hopefully, their final product will end up being something that even if it isn't recyclable everywhere it would be compostable. I tend to use a lot carton on my worm compost at home, so that would be their destination at my home.
@Phoenixio said:
"I thought the plastic on the piece bags were recyclable to start with? Paper is probably still better, but that's a surprising priority."
I would have thought that.
Even if the bags are lightweight, they are probably still heavier than the plastic ones. Then you've got the total [environmental / energy] cost of manufacturing and recycling, And then if the boxes suffer any damage - e.g. water - then the contents are more susceptible to be affected.
I don't know what the overall environmental impact is if the bags are recycled / disposed of correctly, although it's probably not quite as simple as plastic = bad, paper = good.
But the big advantage paper will have is when the bags are NOT disposed of correctly.
Not a fan of this. I reuse the bags usually. I like being able to see the parts. It seems like another virtue signalling gesture. There is a lot of that in our world these days.
The only real downside of this is not being able to see the parts, but on the whole that's a very minor issue.
It looks like these'll be much easier to open than the plastic ones. Sometimes those tiny bags with the studs can be a pain!
It's great LEGO is finally tackling the issue of reducing/eliminating single-use plastics. However, I, like many here, keep the plastic bags for storage, and I'll probably be doing the same with the paper bags. Yet, I'm well-aware the number of consumers who throw the bags away as soon as they're done building is far greater. The next step would be, as has been suggested here multiple times as well, to reduced the size of the building instructions and the packaging itself.
The fact that LEGO bricks will stick around on this planet for way longer than any of us will is great if (and only IF) future generations will love this building toy as much as we do. I love seeing LEGO sets from decades past still being around, either being passed down to a next generation or sold to collectors, but it's inevitable there will be a point in the future when the number of existing LEGO sets will outnumber the demand for it. I already see it happen with less popular themes, not to mention some of the recent non-LEGO Star Wars toys from Hasbro. Humans are generally notoriously bad at predicting the distant future, but imagine if in two centuries barely no one cares about LEGO anymore? What will happen to those gazillions of pieces?
The same holds true for action figures, vinyl, or (even worse!) CDs, DVDs, and Blu-ray discs, which were literally intended to last forever and will never decompose. Unlike LEGO, though, the resale value for CDs and DVDs is rapidly declining, to the point where they're literally worthless and people start throwing them out. Let's hope LEGO never gets obsolete.
Keep the plastic but make them resealable. Zip lock or similar.
Very good and timely news!
May be... one day... polybags will phase oit in favour of old-style mini-boxes...
The biggest flaw I can see is when the delivery driver leaves the box on the porch in the rain and everything gets completely soaked. If the numbered paper bags fall apart it's a bit harder to build the model, but if instruction books or electronic components are water damaged there will be calls to Customer Service.
This will take some getting used to but it is cool!
"A small price to pay for salvation"
To be honest, buying one to ten Lego sets are fine and nice. Buying a hundred sets or more are probably having more decrementing effect on the environment than the plastic bags. As some already posted, the bricks are ABS in nature, so in my opinion saving a little bit from the plastic bags but having continuous marketing and getting people hooked into buying plastic bricks, will not help.
Unless they donate those money earned from the people, into planting more trees or investing in renewable energy (to compensate for the damage done by the product itself). Else I don't see any relationship here in terms of "inspiring children to learn about sustainability through play"... In fact, in this case playing computer games are likely more environmental friendly compared to playing with plastic bricks. :)
@GHED said:
"Very good and timely news!
May be... one day... polybags will phase oit in favour of old-style mini-boxes..."
That would definitely be a downgrade
@Eightcoins8 said:
"I personally feel this is heavily disregarding kids with special needs.
Some conditions you will feel uncomfortable from certain textures and paper/rough cardboard would be one of them"
And I'm sure some other special needs children feel uncomfortable with the crinkly plastic LEGO is currently using, so it's a plus from them. Win some; lose some.
If that's the best negativity you can offer then LEGO must be doing something right.
hmmm cmf in paper`? there is no feeling without damage the bag...
If you're worried about the paper needed for the new bags, consider this: there's a lot more wood pulp (and whatever else is used to make paper and cardboard) in the cardboard box than in the bags that will be inside. If they reduce the size of the boxes (which does affect perceived value- "how much for this little box???") they could use less wood pulp etc. than they do now. As for the point that this is just PR, think what might happen if TLG didn't announce this change, and just went ahead and did it. How many sets would get returned or calls or emails to Customer Service would result: "Somebody stole the bags out of my new Lego set and replaced them with paper bags of I-don't-know-what?"
@BrickTeller said:
"The biggest flaw I can see is when the delivery driver leaves the box on the porch in the rain and everything gets completely soaked. If the numbered paper bags fall apart it's a bit harder to build the model, but if instruction books or electronic components are water damaged there will be calls to Customer Service."
I'd call customer service anyway if a set would be delivered like this. That's just bad service, regardless of the contents of a package.
@Huw couple questions for Tim Brooks:
How will they go forward packaging the instructions manual / sticker sheets? Will these be in reclaimed paper bags too?
Have they formulated the paper bag replacements to be water repellent to some extent?
Will we be able to scan the QR codes printed on the bags against a website / app to know what parts are contained inside each bag?
I think it would have been far better to have them in numbered, ziplock-style bags. Then, if you break down the sets again, you've already got them ready for storage.
But, fair points for a second-place option.
Due to paper being more fragile, I wonder if there will be more widespread use of internal boxes like in very large sets. Also according to old early 2000s instructions internal boxes were commonly used in bigger sets and had images of their contents. But nowadays when we get these plain white internal boxes there is no indication of their contents beyond a black circle or triangle. Though of course there are rare exceptions like the Lamborghini. So I hope if internal boxes are going to become more often like in the early 2000s they give at least some kind of indication of the contents so you don't have to guess which number of bags are in which box.
Plants = Paper
Plants = Bricks?
...Bricks = Paper
Oh wow, I missed this. There's waaaaaaaay too many comments for me to read through them all so I'll just leave some quick thoughts:
1. I've been keeping the empty plastic bags inside the empty boxes not knowing what to do with them, occasionally even using them as padding when putting smaller boxes inside bigger ones. Glad the former won't be a problem anymore.
2. Sealed plastic bags have always been incredibly difficult for me to open, even today. Paper will be much more easily openable and thus accessible.
3. Will this make it harder to identify sets based on sealed bags? Those numbers and QR codes cannot be used by customers, only internally.
4. What about sets that are specifically either packed incorrectly (missing, duplicate, incorrect bags) or tampered with?
@chrisaw said:
"Good news. There’s nothing like opening a bag and getting a whiff of that fresh ABS..."
That was one of the best parts of the Bionicle & Hero Factory canisters.
@Mickey3cs:
Plant based polyethylene is such low-hanging fruit that it's got its feet propped up in a recliner chair. They're not making the plastic itself from plant-based material. They're making the basic building block for PE from plants. That chemical is no different if it comes from plants that were grown this year, or crude oil that got sucked out of the ground after a billion years. Since the chemical is the same, the compounds you can create from that chemical are only going to differ in terms of trace contaminants that may tag along for the ride. There's already an industry set up to extract ethanol from corn, and it's probably just a matter of tweaking that process to crank out ethylene instead. At that point, you just sub that in for your usual supply, and things proceed as they always have.
The problem is, they want to do something similar with ABS, which is _not_ something we know how to produce from plant pulp. They've talked about trying to find a new type of plastic that's functionally similar to ABS but that can be sourced from plant pulp, and the most concerning issue is they've also mentioned wanting it to be biodegradable. To AFOLs, that immediately conjures up images of their collection actually rotting over the years.
@Gataka :
They tried smaller boxes, but it sounds like it impacted sales. Parents look at the model on the box, and expect that to be a lifesize image of what the set looks like. Shrink it down 20%, and they feel like they're getting cheated compared to the price. Digital only instructions are going to be a non-starter given how many kids have no internet access. They only did it for Dimensions because they construction of the models was tied directly into the gameplay, and they only did it for Mario because they couldn't explain the gameplay well enough on paper.
@Nordbart:
The only thing that's changed about the ABS compared to the stuff they used decades ago is now they add the color in the molding process. The plant based parts are all PE, which is the softer plastic used for many LEGO plants like bamboo, 4x3 and 6x5 tree leaves, and flower stems.
@holdre007:
The foliage set (at least the one I'm thinking of, which was the introductory "plant based plants" set) was a GWP, not a retail set.
@greenhorn:
Georgia-Pacific has a fast-growth conifer that they use for paper pulp. It reaches harvestable maturity in just a few years, at which point they simply plant the next crop for future harvest. Doing this, they can basically eliminate deforestation from their process. Even if they hadn't, paper and lumber companies have long accepted that the only thing that's endless about their supply is the demand upon it, so common practice has been to selectively cut down a percentage of a natural forest (leaving plenty of trees to prevent erosion), and reseed what you take as you go.
@kraken:
Amorphous plastics like ABS are recyclable, but not endlessly so. Every time you grind it up to recycle, you're shredding the polymer chains. Over time they get shorter, which makes the plastic easier to form, but structurally weaker. When I worked in ABS thermoforming (the same process used to make baseplates), we had a target percentage for regrind which my boss was ideal for our needs. Too virgin, and the shots tended to form webs, like frog feet (in which case the entire shot would be recycled into the next batch). Too recycled, and you could see imperfections that had already formed into the sheet stock when it was extruded (and which produced critical defects in the products we produced, in which case we sometimes had to just throw the stuff in the garbage). Injection molded plastic forms better with an even higher percentage of regrind, as it more easily seeks out the nooks and crannies as shorter polymer chains get less tangled on each other.
@david20009 :
Paper production tends to be the bulk of the problem, and that process alone can be worse for the environment than landfills full of plastic due to the noxious chemicals that are used to churn out many types of paper.
@PunSlinger :
A crystalline plastic melts like water, reducing the material to its component molecules. Short of contaminants or chemical reaction, it should be possible to endlessly recycle. Metals and glass are not impervious to destruction, however. High-carbon steel would need lots of endless forging to beat the carbon content back out of it. Certain chemicals can destroy aluminum to the point that you can pick up a block of it and crush it into dust with your bare hands. And glass is amorphous like ABS, meaning that chemicals that are added to create color are not something you can just skim off the top of a vat of molten glass.
@masterX244 :
Oof. Try building a UCS Millennium Falcon on a tiny phone screen...
@CCC :
They've already announced their intention to seek an alternate plastic that can replace ABS in their manufacturing. I have no idea if they've had any luck in that endeavor, but it's been a stated goal for several years now.
@markjfisher :
In medicine, there definitely is a lot of one-time plastic use. Even if it's recyclable, it gets incinerated due to bio-hazard risks. And they've found that it isn't any more costly to make a new plastic scalpel handle than it is to autoclave a metal one, but the risk of using a scalpel that's contaminated with a blood-borne pathogen goes down to almost nothing if it's a sterilized, single-use implement and you don't have to worry if some trainee maybe didn't run the autoclave hot or long enough to kill everything. Or if there's some new superbug that likes a little extra time in the sauna.
@chrichrichri :
We could carve them out of wood? Add a little paint, and you're good to go.
@Tupperfan :
I remember hearing repeatedly that Brazil had a huge problem with illegal clear-cutting, where a football field a day would be either harvested for the exotic hardwood trade, or disposed of to make farmland that starts out so poor it would be worthless in a couple years. And then the rain forest can't even grow back to fill that hole because the nutrients simply aren't there to produce a new tree.
@Zander :
The worst I've run into is when I ended up in the large-volume self-checkout lane behind an elderly woman who actually knew that this grocery store still stocked paper bags (and where to find them), which she then proceeded to insert into two plastic bags each, and then _slooooooowly_ fill with her groceries, for a fairly large number of bags. So, wasting paper bags, wasting plastic bags, and wasting a lot of time for anyone who ends up in line right behind her.
@Kanduu :
Up until a certain age, kids will just regurgitate the words you feed into their brains, without any real understanding of what they're even saying in matters like this. So yeah, you know at least some portion of these "heartfelt" letters are basically homework assignments handed down by their parents, or written by the parents and just signed by the kids. Heck, even Greta, for how eloquent she may sound when giving speeches, isn't really capable of offering a token defense for her stances in a proper debate, and she's nearly an adult.
@daniellesa :
I totally read that as "Futurama", and thought you were making a joke...and was trying to remember which episode that was from.
@randomly_generated:
SDCC minifigs will look a lot less appealing packaged in an opaque woodpulp clamshell, which you can't even open to verify the contents without reducing its MISB value!
@AllenSmith:
PE bags also aren't optically clear the way the PP bags are, so the parts inside look like they're being viewed through a slight haze.
@emef:
Sure. Make it out of lead. It's cheap, and kids like the taste.
@BrickTeller:
In either case, you can still download the instructions in PDF format.
@blueshift:
Once the parts are out of the inner bags, they will throw them out. PaB parts that fall on the floor go in the trash. If you return a set that's sealed, they'll restock it. If the box is open and the bags are sealed, they'll send the parts off to be donated to charity or something of that sort. If the inner bags are open, Forky is your tour guide.
Personally I wasn't a fan of polybag packaging. I always loved little sets in little cardboard boxes.
I’m surprised it took this long. While I applaud TLG for their environmental stance, I still found it hilarious, in the ironic sense, at the small collection of plastic bags I amassed from a larger set.
Kudos to them.
However, I am slightly bummed as I use a good deal of them for storing sets. I’m a set collector & multiple sets from the same theme will end up in a single container. I obviously could always mark the paper bags instead of being able to simply look at the bag & know which set is which.
Doing some searching on the internet, it seems that a single use paper bag gives a much higher carbon footprint than a plastic bag. The only reason I see why plastic is bad, is because it may end up in the environment. But for Lego plastic bags I wouldn't see them being opened outside and cast away very often.
So I think it's more of a cosmetic thing.
For smaller sets, the parts could be put inside the box without any bag, just as in the 60's/70's.
It would be nice to have an inventory on the paper bags, as magmafrost mentioned.
Finally...
Finally. I was always worried about the heaps of plastic bags, considering LEGO itself is already plastic.
@LuvsLEGO_Cool_J said:
"This is good news going to paper! But speaking of paper, I was sad to read above that someone tosses the instructions into the recycle bin. I want to keep the instructions for the model I bought--why would I throw them away? Especially if the pieces are all sorted out and later I want to build the set again. :("
I think space becomes an issue at some point. If I had the space I would keep all the boxes and instructions but alas I live in a studio
Several points from this thread, starting with the main one:
- Paper bags instead of plastic - good.
- Smaller boxes - would be good.
- Digital instructions instead of paper - would be bad (I don't want to have to log on and scroll around a screen to see instructions, I want something real I can flick back & forward through, something that will last and not suddenly disappear in a few years time when the website gets rebuilt)
- Biobricks - would be OK if they are the same quality and they last, very bad if (as I understand it) the plan is to make something that rots to bits after a few years!
I do believe this is good, anything done that overall improves the situation environmentally is great but it also feels TLG could have done this a number of years ago. If it's taken two years to develop, why did they not start seriously looking 5, 10 years ago or even further back? Waste packaging has been a global topic for decades.
Reading through the comments, (and not looking at this through the 'world saving' lens) some people love having the clear bags for different reasons and others don't. It is not that one person's view trumps another, it's about personal taste. I understand the reasons why some like being able to see the individual pieces, some want it to find a particular piece or minifig and others enjoy the feel and sensation of opening the plastic bags. I personally don't like having to open so many plastic bags and seeing the pieces beforehand is of no consequence - I empty all the pieces from a build into one pile and enjoy sorting and finding the pieces as I build. So paper bags in that sense doesn't affect my building experience.
Again when it comes to the debate of paper vs digital instructions there are obviously people in both camps. I do prefer having the instructions on paper but if the instructions are of a decent resolution I don't mind them digitally. Digital means a lot less space taken up by instructions too.
Do you think it would ever make logistical sense for TLG to make sets purchasable with and without instructions? The boxes clearly marked as either "comes with manuals" and "no manuals - download only". The ones without instructions potentially cheaper too - say for the biggest sets, (£)($)(€)10/15 off.
we really needed it
Do you think it would ever make logistical sense for TLG to make sets purchasable with and without instructions? The boxes clearly marked as either "comes with manuals" and "no manuals - download only". The ones without instructions potentially cheaper too - say for the biggest sets, (£)($)(€)10/15 off.]]
It wouldn't make sense, except maybe for lego.com. For brick and mortar stores, they would need two versions of each set: how many of each? AFOLs would know what to look for, but the average shopper buying a gift for someone might not.
@fakespacesquid said:
" @GHED said:
"Very good and timely news!
May be... one day... polybags will phase oit in favour of old-style mini-boxes..."
That would definitely be a downgrade"
I don't think so. These small boxes were the good way for impulse buying, and you can clearly saw - it is LEGO, not a some cheap-quality Chinese copy. In Russia we in '90 have polybags too, byt they were universally restricted to some promotional lines, say... MILKY WAY BOXES, and such.
The majority of small LEGO sets in those times in Russia were precisely small boxes. Loads of them.
Besides, this mini-box appears as a small version of big and serious BOX.
Later in Russia emerged many copycat "Lego" and fakes (even Russian ones, not only Chinese), which used minibox formar to exploit nostalgia...
They'd better reduce the size of boxes and manuals.
@eiffel006 said:
"Great news. I’m wondering how this will affect those who collect sealed sets. Will the quality of the paper deteriorate in the long run? Will the parts get loose in the boxes after a few years?"
I always feel bad for those bricks. They are screaming inside dying to be handled and built.
@CedarConstruct:
Oh, heck no! You just doubled the number of SKUs they have to manage. The cost of doing so could be high enough that they end up spending more on overhead than they save on printing. For every set, you need to dedicate a minimum of two locations in the warehouse, your pickers will be picking from twice as many locations (increasing the amount of travel it takes to pick orders), managing LEGO Stores would become a nightmare, other retailers will only want to stock one version, customers would constantly be returning sets because they accidentally bought the “wrong” version, customers will try to buy the cheaper version and then scam a free copy of the instructions out of consumer affairs, inventory control will have to actually figure out _which_ version of a set they stumbled on every time they stumble upon “lost” product, warehouse employees will constantly be stocking sets as the wrong version (so some of those bogus complaints about paying for the manual and not getting it will be legit), and you might increase turnover of employees because you fire the ones who can’t get it correct and others just quit because it increases the stress level beyond what they feel the pay is worth. Next thing you know, employees are taking a pay cut to go work for Amazon, because the worst that’ll happen there is you get killed through employer negligence, and the state feels pressured to overrule a federal investigator so they don’t skunk their chance at winning an HQ2 location (that actually happened in Indiana...and they still didn’t get HQ2).
Did I forget anything?
Yes. TLG are finally reducing waste plastic.
We can only hope that other single use plastic bags will be removed from all aspects of modern life.
TLG need to reduce box sizes next.
Currently they are all about 33% too large. some are even 50% larger than they need to be.
Effectively we are all currently paying for a lot of Air.
Very few instruction books are too large. But some do have too many pages.
@PurpleDave : Here's another problem with having two versions of a set: the boxes would need to be very clearly and conspicuously marked to indicate which version- which might lead potential new Lego customers to wonder if both really are the same model aside from the instructions, and decide to buy some other toy instead. Lego is expensive (but worth it, IMO); confusing a customer is not the way to win them!
P.S. I worked at an Amazon Fulfillment Center for a few weeks. I heard that story about the forklift mechanic on my way home from work one day...
Don't you all up-vote me all at once, but I hate it this idea, and I am not happy with this change at all.
Gimme my plastic bags!!!
This could create so many problems. I hope they don't try and make money off of us replacing our Legos after they've rotted away.
I certainly hope this makes sets cheaper, and not even more expensive (if that's possible).
@Gataka said:
"YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
Alternatively/additionally extend the usable life of manuals somehow.
Anyway, I hope LEGO Replay becomes available around here, that's a great initiative too!
"
I personally think printed instructions are important because if you look into the number of children & adults who still don’t have home access to the internet it quite shocking. Also my idea of recycling lego includes the whole set so I keep the boxes and instructions and then pass on set I really don’t want to give to local kids and buy reduced sets throughout the year for Christmas gifts for them xx starting a lego library is easy with you very local kids too & a good way to get to know your neighbours - doesn’t take much time and we all get the chance to build the sets xx. Looking forward to being able to do things like this again when the world goes back to normal xx
I'm probably going to miss the plastic bags and I saw a comment about trees being killed lol the plastic bags' feel and sound will be missed.
R.I.P. Plastic bags 19??-2020
Paper can be recycled much more easily than plastic and there are some great sustainable forestry initiatives out there. This is a great move, bravo, Lego!
@jimmystang said:
"Great, can't wait until the Bricks are made of paper also. "
No way man!!! They would probably be hardly durable and flimsy. The mini-figures would just fall over. If you want you could just print and cut out those cubed, paper figures, but don't touch the BRICKS themselves!
I do not care for this move personally. Man made climate change is a hoax. The climate changes naturally as history shows; however, we are to be good stewards of this planet. I like seeing the bricks in the bags, but it's Lego's choice.
I do have a comment about their working with Save the Children. How about in addition, they work with groups who are saving children from abortion. All children should be able to play with Legos and if you think about it Lego could make lots more money if there were more children in the world who were saved from being aborted. Just a thought.
@Hawkibro123 said:
" @jimmystang said:
"Great, can't wait until the Bricks are made of paper also. "
No way man!!! They would probably be hardly durable and flimsy. The mini-figures would just fall over. If you want you could just print and cut out those cubed, paper figures, but don't touch the BRICKS themselves!
I do not care for this move personally. Man made climate change is a hoax. The climate changes naturally as history shows; however, we are to be good stewards of this planet. I like seeing the bricks in the bags, but it's Lego's choice.
I do have a comment about their working with Save the Children. How about in addition, they work with groups who are saving children from abortion. All children should be able to play with Legos and if you think about it Lego could make lots more money if there were more children in the world who were saved from being aborted. Just a thought."
Thank you for your great comment! I agree with you there and there.
@nimuro said:
"Thats very good news. I hope LEGO uses recycled paper.
And now, please LEGO, reduce the size of your manuals. No one needs a 200 pages manual for a 50 parts set! That became really ridiculous... The paper and color needed for this nonsense can't be much sustainable!"
I think the steps are necessary for smaller city sets for younger kids, but I agree with having smaller manuals for larger sets for TFOLS and AFOLS. I do think that the first step would be making the instruction backgrounds mainly white, to save ink, instead of light blue. I do see that in some sets but I don't think it is applied to all sets.
@560heliport:
Yup, that's the one. It's difficult to force all employees to behave in a safe manner, but you have to at least try. He hadn't received proper training for the job he was doing, which was effectively like allowing someone to use seniority to take a position as a mechanic who works on your fleet of road vehicles.
I've got another idea.
Why is Lego even packing parts into (plastic) bags, anyway? The box is there, it's sturdy enough and , by their numbers and appearance on the shelves, undamaged by the time they arrive in the store. Sure, some parts are more tender than the others, so put those into a sub-box and call it a win.
TLC, Just get rid of the bags altogether.
And do not touch the manuals. It's already bad enough to have to go online to get them and then look for hours at a screen, often of a phone...
@Sale:
One of the primary functions of the bags is to keep the parts from jostling against each other during transportation. Remove those, and the parts in one of the really expensive D2C sets will look like they've been making out with sandpaper.
The other major function of the bags is for numbered builds, which can't happen if you just dump everything into the box together.
@PurpleDave
So, TLG needs to shrink the boxes.
Again, I agree some parts need to be packed tightly. Not saying there is no truth to your words, but, on the other hand, seeing polybag sets, although the size of an average plastic lego bag, not suffering from damaged parts or even those tiny manuals (I have several dozens of those), despite not having box or anything else to protect them. And those are literaly thrown around in shops.
As for numbered bags, my subjective stand is they are unnecessary. The objective fact is they work the first time and that's that, any advantage there is gone. And since lego nature is to be assembled over and over again...
@Sale:
In the US, at least, parents have come to expect a 1:1 image on the box, so shrink it too much and the image of the set will have to be reduced to fit on the box. Parents will look at that, and think they're getting ripped off for something that, to them, looks tiny.
Polybags...I mean, have you ever seen how those ship to the stores? They stuff so many of them into the case that there's likely no possibility of any parts moving during shipment. Once you open the case the parts all settle to the bottom of the bag, and the flexible sidewalls are pulled inward by the weight of the parts, which holds the parts from moving around very much.
With a box, the sidewalls don't shift, so the parts are free to do so. The box interior doesn't change, so those parts are going to be bouncing around and sliding side-to-side, whether it's in a shipping container on the ocean, or a pallet of freight in the back of a truck. Once it gets to the store, every kid that picks up a copy of a set and shakes it like it's Christmas morning is going to be scuffing the heck out of the parts inside.
The best way for Lego to be sustainable and environmentally friendly is to shut themselves down and never produce anything ever again. Why not just do that? It wouldn't even cost them any money.
If Lego wants to save the environment and money, surely those instruction manuals which are completely black pages apart from instructions - for the mature sets,right?! - should be a big nono. Isn't all that black ink being used a big unnecessary use of resources ?
Is it weird that my first thought was that now people can't easily open sets at a store and steal the minifigs without first knowing what bags they're in?
On topic, though, I'm glad that they're moving towards recyclable bags, as I hate just throwing them away...especially on huge sets.
@zwixxx:
That depends on how they produce those black pages. If the black ink is the end result of clubbing baby seals, then it's not environmentally friendly. If it takes a waste byproduct that would just end up in a landfill anyways and traps it on pages that will be saved for years, then that should be a good thing, right?
@Waller:
Nope. Not if you've ever seen a pilfered set sitting on a store shelf. I've seen it fairly regularly. Large sets will be much more challenging due to the shift towards spreading minifigs out over the entire build rather than packing them all into the first bag of a numbered build. While you can still probably open just about any bag and find _a_ minifig, you might not find the one you're actually after. Hunting for specific parts in a clear bag is a lot easier, as you rotate the bag, and maybe shake it a bit to get a view of where the piece you're after is located, and you can just pluck out the parts of the minifig. With opaque bags, you've really only got two choices. You can either dig around inside the bag while only being able to look through the top (and only when your hand isn't in the way), or you have to find a wide open space where you can dump the contents and sift through them. Either way probably increases the chances that you get caught, and the latter could be tricky if the shelves have recently been fully stocked.
On the other hand, these bags are supposed to be easier to open, which could encourage more theft. They may also be less conspicuous than a clear bag full of LEGO parts, which could encourage theft by allowing someone to ditch the box and carry the loose bags around the store, looking for places to dump and search through each one. And whatever you do to deter theft, you can't eliminate the possibility of someone who is just so determined to take something that they'll ignore any logical reason not to. All you can really do is make it less easy for them, which I'm sure is why the little minifig windows have gone away on retail sets and DVDs.
@Slithus_Venom said:
" @Hawkibro123 said:
" @jimmystang said:
"Great, can't wait until the Bricks are made of paper also. "
No way man!!! They would probably be hardly durable and flimsy. The mini-figures would just fall over. If you want you could just print and cut out those cubed, paper figures, but don't touch the BRICKS themselves!
I do not care for this move personally. Man made climate change is a hoax. The climate changes naturally as history shows; however, we are to be good stewards of this planet. I like seeing the bricks in the bags, but it's Lego's choice.
I do have a comment about their working with Save the Children. How about in addition, they work with groups who are saving children from abortion. All children should be able to play with Legos and if you think about it Lego could make lots more money if there were more children in the world who were saved from being aborted. Just a thought."
Thank you for your great comment! I agree with you there and there."
Thanks Slithus_Venom! That's encouraging.
@Gataka said:
"YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
Alternatively/additionally extend the usable life of manuals somehow.
Anyway, I hope LEGO Replay becomes available around here, that's a great initiative too!
"
Putting manuals in the recycle bin?? They are collector's items, same as the sets themselves. Mine are all saved in plastic Sterilite storage containers.
@Gataka said:
"YES! This is great news. The amount of trash LEGO sets generate has been a growing concern for me. The bags add up really quickly if you buy bricks regularly.
Next step would be maybe shrinking the boxes, they often seem unnecessarily large. Also, this won't be a popular opinion, but I'd be OK with digital-only instructions. I don't know how it is for kids and people in general but for me they're essentially single use items. I feel bad putting them in the recycle bin after a few hours of use at best.
Alternatively/additionally extend the usable life of manuals somehow.
Anyway, I hope LEGO Replay becomes available around here, that's a great initiative too!
"
If you visited Bricklink regularly you would know even manuals have a value.
Why's everyone so down on plastic? Plastic is great! It's a universal good!
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Plastic packaging protects food, medicine, etc. from contamination and germs when it is displayed and handled.
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For every 10% reduction in weight, a car or truck will save 5 - 7% in fuel usage. Reduction in vehicle weight translates into a REDUCTION in CARBON DIOXIDE EMISSIONS: every pound of vehicle weight that can be eliminated means 25.3 pounds of carbon dioxide emissions are saved over the vehicle’s life.
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PLASTIC is UNIVERSAL:
Scientists discovered propylene, a basic element of plastic food packaging and storage containers, on Saturn’s moon, Titan!
It was the first time propylene was discovered anywhere else in the universe other than Earth, and the first time anyone found evidence that the universe can make propylene at least as well as we can.
"If it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the Earth plus Plastic. The Earth doesn’t share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the Earth. The Earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children.
Could be the only reason the Earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?”..." - George Carlin
Didn't we start using plastic in order to save the trees? Do we have too many trees now?