Medieval Blacksmith: moss or not?
Posted by Huw,
In my review of 21325 Medieval Blacksmith I questioned the aesthetics of the sand green moss patches on the roof.
I'm not that keen on them, although I concede that they add colour and interest. I suggested that the pieces could be replaced with more pentagonal tiles, which can be purchased from BrickLink for a few pence each.
I did just that so that you can see what it looks like, thus enabling you to decide if you wish to do the same.
You will need about 20 of them to do both sides, plus a few brown plates to replace the sand green ones on the apex. I ordered both shades of blue.
I think the chimney side of the roof looks much better and more realistic in all blue, although certainly not as colourful.
The other side, however looks a bit plain and uniform without the green patches, and I suspect that is what prompted the designers to look for a solution to overcome that.
Given the state of the lower part of the roof, perhaps it would look better with a few missing tiles higher up. I'm sure you can come up with some creative solutions if you go down this route.
The set is missing something significant from the original submission, so let's remedy that while I'm at it...
Hey, get away from my vegetables!
Shoo, you naughty goats!
Thanks to LEGO for providing the set for this article. All opinions expressed are my own.
259 likes
83 comments on this article
Thanks @Huw for the comparison. I was on the fence but I do prefer the moss now.
And goats!
awesome! I like without, personally.
Where on earth do you get so many goats?
IMO the roof just uses too many different colors. Replacing either the sand green with light and dark blue OR the light blue with dark blue makes it look better.
@huw any news on your review copy of the gardens? Excited to see what you guys make of it!
@thatsaltyninja said:
" @huw any news on your review copy of the gardens? Excited to see what you guys make of it!"
me too! mines coming tomorrow!
Well done Huw! It does look much better and I am glad to have just bought 22 dark blue tiles :-)
Hmm, interesting! Thanks for taking the time to do this.
It's actually inspired me to think about doing the whole roof in Sand Green (that being the greatest colour going).
Maybe you could move the moss from the chimney side over to the other side? That would be more realistic and make that side look more colourful whilst keeping the chimney side looking good?
4 of them?? Lucky, lucky!
I so wish they brought them back...
I think I prefer moss version,but this one is good as well.
I was expecting a poll.... I would have voted 'No moss'. I agree with Huw, it's my least favourite bit of the set.
@huw: Show off!
@legoninjago69: goats were available in Lugbulk a looong time ago. Huw obviously took advantage (and I regret we didn't ;- )
Rather than remove the moss idea, I would perhaps pick another color to represent moss. But it doesn't bother me that much either way.
I prefer the inclusion of moss. However, I do like the effort you made here.
I like how clean it looks!
The sand green 'moss' doesn't really work, IMO. Don't know if it would work better were it in olive like elements of the foundation, but I find it a really unpleasant distraction on the roof. (Notwithstanding the ahistorical, overly-colorful tiled roof of a mere medieval tradesman's cottage.)
A really nice experiment. It looks too clean though, like a Disney set. Good decision by Lego.
I'm not keen on the roof, myself. I'd take it a step further and make the roof all the same color of blue.
Yeah, those original moss patched are awful. Much better now.
If you live in the Northern Hemisphere the moss goes on the north facing side of the roof. The opposite for the Southern Hemisphere.
I don't have a problem with adding moss parches - but the fact that Lego has put in differently shaped and studded pieces is a bit of a problem.
It definitely looks better having all tiles, but I wouldn't mind if a few of them were green, or had moss stickers or printed for the moss effect. After all, moss tends to just be visible on tiles, not completely obscure the shape of them.
I don't mind the moss, but the set needs goats!
Odd. I was 100% convinced I was going to prefer no moss. But now... now I'm not so sure.
Nice job, but I prefer the moss, adds more personalty to it.
I think I prefer the moss. I can see why it was included, it's a small difference but the build looks just little more balanced and interesting with it.
Goats are an unquestionable improvement.
@thatsaltyninja said:
" @huw any news on your review copy of the gardens? Excited to see what you guys make of it!"
The capn' is working on it and I think will be publishing over the weekend. It's a massive set with dozens of Easter eggs and not something we can review quickly if we are to do it justice.
It will be worth waiting for, I can assure you of that.
@BricksAhoy said:
"Odd. I was 100% convinced I was going to prefer no moss. But now... now I'm not so sure."
Me too, but I'm not sure either. It's been an interesting experiment in any case.
I regret not buying more goats in the past :(
Hmmm, I reckon pro-moss on the tiles, but not on the wooden beams... If there becomes a poll, can that be an option?
Those last two pics made for a good chuckle, Huw. Thanks for that! Also, it's nice to see the roof without moss. I think I do like the mossy, slightly worn down look a little better. Seems to add to the story of the couple.
I love the clean version, but I really love the goats even more
I think I had better try and sneak at least one goat into all my reviews from now on :)
For a comparison article, this should have had a picture of both options next to each other! But thanks for this type of modding article, there's really too few of those around!
I don’t have any goats but four ostriches will certainly suffice.
A horse, dog and frog as the only animals? This set really gets my goat! :~P
I like the moss, but I think it would be a lot better in Olive Green.
Holy goat cheese Batman, those Bricklink goat prices! At what point does Lego need to help balance the market with a product re-release? I understand the collector angle, but I can't help but side with those who don't yet have a Ninjago City, or a goat, and would like one without breaking the bank.
In fact, I think I'll start describing Lego in units of Goat and NC (Ninjago City).
I'm willing to pay about 4.5-10 goats (depending on exchange rates) for a NC right now, but no more.
I think it's worth calling out the clear influence 3739 has had on this set. 3739 was one of the first fan-designed sets (Daniel Siskind) to be officially picked up and sold by TLG way back in 2002, and pre-dates Ideas by a number of years. That set featured a wholly-blue roof, so removing the moss from 21325 allows a more direct homage to 3739.
Team Moss!
Moss
@Huw said:
"I think I had better try and sneak at least one goat into all my reviews from now on :)"
Megan: sloths
Huw: goats
Cap'n: porgs...?
I think it does indeed look comparatively boring and too flat or uniform without the moss, which is something I see a lot of moc builders struggle with.
The designers at Lego get paid for a reason.
I'm just here to comment about the implementation of moss and not as an evaluation of the set's quality or my overall impressions of the set:
I think the moss would've been better represented with an additional layer of plates or even foliage elements covering the pentagonal tiles of the roof. Simply replacing some of the blue tiles with sand green tiles and plates just doesn't work for me, it looks too much like a coat of paint and not enough like an actual layer of foliage. That would've bumped up the price by $5 or $10, but considering it's already very rich in detail to the point of being a single building for AU$250 compared to AU$250 for two simpler-looking (but still not completely plain) buildings in 10270, it wouldn't have been such a big deal.
The set absolutely needs the goats or at least a cow - they aren't going to make much butter with the dog!
I like to think of the green as just another color of shingle material, not as moss. However if I were to redo the roof I think that only dark blue and black tiles would look really good.
Goat flex!
Nice to see LEGO being used as... LEGO!
Which means: You can do whatever you want with your sets (as long as you don't use any Kragle that is).
@B_Space_Man said:
"Rather than remove the moss idea, I would perhaps pick another color to represent moss. But it doesn't bother me that much either way. "
That's what appears strange to me too.
Although there are thousands of different kinds of moss, bright ones and dark ones, maybe a shade a little bit darker would look better.
this is a great review.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/80d1940d-cce6-4e2d-b05d-999eeaea3cf9
@Acranius said:
" @B_Space_Man said:
"Rather than remove the moss idea, I would perhaps pick another color to represent moss. But it doesn't bother me that much either way. "
That's what appears strange to me too.
Although there are thousands of different kinds of moss, bright ones and dark ones, maybe a shade a little bit darker would look better."
Disagree that it would look better; the current color serves to create a strong top to bottom gradient from bright to dark. Basically it doubles as a highlight as well as foliage detail - for the roof itself and for the model as a whole.
Lucky guy, you have 4 of them - I have none ..
Thank you to share and show these alternatives!
@Leg0liver said:
"Lucky guy, you have 4 of them - I have none ..
Thank you to share and show these alternatives!"
I think Huw has quite a few more... Check the Bonsai-variants-article ;)
@Huw, could you maybe add a pic of the original, next to the MOD? (I get you can't display them side by side as you probably only have 1 copy, but just a pic would be nice).
^ Just look on the home page, there's a pictures underneath this article of the original.
I was just doing exactly that, cheers ;)
Personally? I'm on team moss. I'm partly biased, since I love moss, but I just think this bit of weathering/green helps it be a bit more natural. Maybe it would be better if there were fewer large slabs of green, and more dark blue tiles that have printed sand green moss designs. I dunno, I find the more washed-out green growth contrasting against the more saturated blue tiles to be very nice.
Wow, there is a fortune in this last picture! 4 goats!! lol
I personally don't mid the moss, but what I would definitely like is if at least one goat was included in the set
This looks so much better imho.
Might be because of the goats though ;-)
Seriously, what where the designers thinking when they decided to include a Husky of all animals? As much as I love that part, it is just so wrong for this set/time and place.
@CedBricks : you do know that @Huw has even more goats, as evidenced in another recent article here on Brickset? :-)
https://images.brickset.com/news/57030_P1051339.jpg
@Brick_Master said:
"Maybe you could move the moss from the chimney side over to the other side? That would be more realistic and make that side look more colourful whilst keeping the chimney side looking good?"
Exactly my thoughts. At least that's what I will try. So I'm also on team moss and obviously on team goats :-)
MOSS ALL DAY LONG!
@Huw said:
"I think I had better try and sneak at least one goat into all my reviews from now on :)"
Ah so this is will be your calling card from n9w on as it is for the frogs on that LEGO designer. Keep up the great work and thanks for this article but I'll leave the roof as it is originally, have a great day.
@DavidBrick said:
" @legoninjago69 said:
"awesome! I like without, personally.
Where on earth do you get so many goats?"
China makes some great knockoffs, you can't tell the difference!"
What website please? I've never been able to find them. I'm pure original Lego but for this I will make an exception. This set should have come with a goat.
Why should a Blacksmith absolutely have a goat?? :-)
As many others have said, this was a missed-opportunity to finally include a goat in a another set. :(
This article's lead pic alongside the previous article's is almost a spot the difference game... Where have Lady Blacksmith's bow and arrows gone? Why has the dog ventured up to the porch? Answers I suppose only @Huw will ever know...
To moss or not to moss, that is the question.... I'd be on the fence in camp "moss on one side is actually more normal".. our house faces due south so the back roof has moss, the front one has none as it's in full sun.
So perhaps the ideal outcome here (for me) would be moss on the back and no moss on the chimney side.
I am a moss man!
ps.
Epic goats! Good thing I scored this set twice, way back when it was available for only a mere 3 months 7189 Mill Village Raid
I like the moss, I'm not sure about the textured pieces, all smooth sand green pieces might look better, although I think the roof should have been the darker tiles at the bottom rather than blue, though I do appreciate the reference to the first fan created set.
While I object to spending yet more money this early in the year, the detail is very impressive and I look forward to building it.
WHAT!!!?!
https://brickset.com/parts/4623941/goat-dec
The value of one of these tiny goats is a whopping €37.14!!! I had no idea.
NO moss and YES goats.
BTW, at this growth rate, Lego goats will soon be quoted on Wall Street.
I didn't mind the moss, but without looks so much better. Yes, it is cleaner and "less realistic," but umm, it's LEGO so realism isn't necessary right now.
I think I may have to stock up on NEXO tiles and do away with the moss OR come up with my own version of moss. I don't know...have to get the funds to get the set first.
Next to the goats, I will add also the chickens and the pig from the 7189.
It does look nice without the moss. Honestly, not sure why they deviated so far from the traditional Black Falcons (or Crusader/Lion Knights) theme from the '80s with this one.
Like, if they're going to deviate, then go all the way to the aesthetic that was in the original Ideas submission, which was a fantastic design that this version falls far short of -- or, if they're going to change it from what was submitted, then change it all the way back to something that will fit in better with the '80s sets. Either or. Halfway between just fails to mesh well with either theme.
@yacoub
I'm not sure the original Ideas submission (if mostly unaltered) would sell as well if released. As has been pointed out in one of the comments for the review, the official set uses neater and more detailed construction techniques that likely lead to a more enjoyable building experience. While there is not an insignificant amount of people that prefer the more ramshackle aesthetic of the original submission over the official set, there also seem to be plenty of people that prefer the look of the official set over the original submission (and that would not have purchased the set if it looked like the original submission). One also needs to factor in appeal to more casual fans that just see this set in a store and make a decision to purchase there rather than scrutinizing the set on Brickset well before release.
Ignoring the use of discontinued pieces and colors, releasing a set that fits in with the original 80's Black Falcon aesthetic, while a dream come true for many Castle AFOLs like myself, would likely not sell particularly well with buyers outside of that demographic, as can be attested by the poor performance of the Legends line back in the 2000s. Castle sets in the exact style of the 80s sets would probably be seen as too "simplistic" for many modern buyers - both kids and AFOLs. It is actually somewhat difficult to find many MOCs in the exact style of the 80s sets - while neo-classic space models are very popular, their style is very different from that of actual classic space sets!
@LordDunsany said:
"Ignoring the use of discontinued pieces and colors, releasing a set that fits in with the original 80's Black Falcon aesthetic, while a dream come true for many Castle AFOLs like myself, would likely not sell particularly well with buyers outside of that demographic, as can be attested by the poor performance of the Legends line back in the 2000s. Castle sets in the exact style of the 80s sets would probably be seen as too "simplistic" for many modern buyers - both kids and AFOLs.""
The simplistic aspect is a fair point but a crafty designer could pull it off such that the exterior matches the aesthetic while inside the structure contains the greater detail and advanced engineering of more modern Lego creations.
As for how well it would sell if done properly, I think the success of the Barracuda Bay Pirates set attests to the fact that returning to the most beloved '80s themes can work extremely well. Given Castle (in particular the vintage from around 84-91 with Black Falcons, Lion/Crusader Knights, Forestmen, and Wolf Pack) is a very popular one among AFOLs, I'd wager a well done castle set would do just as well as Pirates has.
@povoq said:
" @DavidBrick said:
" @legoninjago69 said:
"awesome! I like without, personally.
Where on earth do you get so many goats?"
China makes some great knockoffs, you can't tell the difference!"
What website please? I've never been able to find them. I'm pure original Lego but for this I will make an exception. This set should have come with a goat."
I’ve also never seen any bootlego goats which always mystefied me.
I remember those halcyon days where I said “£14 on bricklink?! You must be joking!” And now they’re minimum £32!
So sad as they’re one of the best animal moulds Lego has ever done and it’s clear that they are ultra popular. Why Lego has never put them in another set has never been properly explained.
I much prefer the moss by the way! Much more beautiful.
As for bootleg goats, I have never seen them sold separately either, at least not on the usual sites such as Aliexpress.
But I know that Lepin used to sell a bootleg of the Mill Village Raid set they came in, so some might have gotten theirs from that bootleg set. Had I known about these goats I might have pulled the trigger and ordered that set when it was still available. Ah well, can't be helped. First world problems anyway.
It makes it slightly better but the use of Reddish Brown instead of Dark Brown for the wood still brings this set down MASSIVELY.
If Pirates of Barracuda Bay was the most pleasant surprise of 2020, this one will certainly be my biggest disappointment of 2021. And at 160€ + extra bricks to fix it? Nope. Absolutely not.
I like the moss, but I wonder if it wouldn't look better in dark green, olive green or even just plain regular green.
I do love the multi toned blue roof and it was my first thought when I saw the set. I knew what they were trying to do but I wasn't reading it as moss visually, more like an attempt at patina, but the studs were really messing up the effect. I love this blue palette throughout the roof, really dials the model in. And those goats!!
I don't suppose there is any chance we can get some pictures of this set with the old fishing store? I want to display them together but not sure how they compare size wise. Thanks
Sorry, my fishing shop is still in its box, MISB.
@Lee_Morris said:
"I don't suppose there is any chance we can get some pictures of this set with the old fishing store? I want to display them together but not sure how they compare size wise. Thanks"
That's something quite easy to do, simply using the pictures of the two sets. However it would be quite an anachronism to display them together...
No worries. Thanks for responding Huw
I like the moss myself--if I were to edit the roof I think I would reduce the number of brighter blue roof tiles, which I find rather glaring mixed with the more subdued colors of the rest of the roof.
I'm also sympathetic to those who would prefer the use of Dark Brown instead of Reddish Brown. I suppose a visit to Bricklink to see what's available in Dark Brown is in order....
Pity about the goat(s). I have a sad feeling the molds are no longer available and TLG would rather create new (probably Friends-ified) animals than revive this older one, no matter how beloved by the AFOL community.