LEGO CMO Julia Goldin talks changing trends and adult fans

Did Lego do anything good for Bricklink recently?

Changing nothing about it is probably the best thing they can do.

Another cool move for the AFOLs would be re-releasing the early modulars. Ideas certainly has felt like an AFOL theme though.

Lego has always been about experimentation in light of shifting markets and interests. Particular product lines tanking isn't good, but it's the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" paradox. Experimentation gets you Ninjago, but it also gets you Chima.

(I honestly wonder how Dots are doing....)

@akindu01 said:
"Another cool move for the AFOLs would be re-releasing the early modulars. Ideas certainly has felt like an AFOL theme though."

This will cater only those who missed out on the early modulars and want to ‘complete’ their collection without a big budget. And what are early modulars? Anything before the Pet Shop? Even the brick bank is going for at least two times the rrp already. Should this need a re-release as well?

@Mr_Hankey said:
" @akindu01 said:
"Another cool move for the AFOLs would be re-releasing the early modulars. Ideas certainly has felt like an AFOL theme though."

This will cater only those who missed out on the early modulars and want to ‘complete’ their collection without a big budget. And what are early modulars? Anything before the Pet Shop? Even the brick bank is going for at least two times the rrp already. Should this need a re-release as well? "

While I would also appreciate a re-release of some older sets, I cannot see that 10182 Cafe Corner or 10197 Fire Brigade will be re-released as they contain retired part designs (especially https://brickset.com/parts/4222968/under-carriage-1x4 )

@Mr_Hankey said:
This will cater only those who missed out on the early modulars and want to ‘complete’ their collection without a big budget. And what are early modulars? Anything before the Pet Shop? Even the brick bank is going for at least two times the rrp already. Should this need a re-release as well? ]]

You say this as though it is a tiny sliver of fans when aftermarket prices suggest otherwise. I could see a slight update of, at a minimum Cafe Corner and Green Grocer, like the Winter Village Toy Shop was and suspect that they would be immensely popular.

The issue with the very early modulars such as Cafe Corner and Green Grocer is that they use building techniques which are fairly basic compared to what can be achieved these days. Cafe Corner especially has been put on a pedestal because it was the first, when the fact is that the building is completely empty and the build itself is a fairly hum drum one.

In short, the first few don't come close to the present modular buildings and would be quite likely to be negatively received by anyone who bought them expecting a similar building experience.

Plus, the longer the series goes on, the more likely it is that most collectors will have missed a good proportion of them. It wouldn't be feasible to re-release all of them on a rolling basis.

Kinda weird, as I've always felt LEGO's big issue of late has been the marketing department.

"At the LEGO Group, we stay very curious – that is the only way to keep up with children!"
"We put in a lot of effort to hear from children and their families, and we do this globally."

Yeah, LEGO makes indeed a lot of effort finding the next IP for their next product.

Btw, @ LEGO marketing team: I also made a lot of efforts to hear what kids like and after almost three decades of intensive research I came to a really unexpected conclusion:
Kids seem to like animals, pirates, knights, even cowboys. And this even if the latter don't exist anymore! Oh kids...

I was really shocked by my own results and my world view shattered because I thought Youtube, TicToc and Super Heroes IPs is the really cool stuff. :(

An interview straight from the top level of marketing and no mention of mindfulness, self-care, or DIY? Why do I feel... disappointed?

That being said, an interesting discussion, good on Blocks for making it happen!

Ok, she mentioned that dreadful Ferrari, which is a laughing stock here.

@jkb said:
"Ok, she mentioned that dreadful Ferrari, which is a laughing stock here."

Is it though? I've really only seen negativity towards it from the usual handful of negative members, and most Technic groups I'm a part of only complain about the quantity of stickers, not the build. Some sets are a laughing stock and rightly so, but I haven't seen that for the ""dreadful"" Ferrari

"...it’s the connections and collaboration you find on BrickLink that make it so special."

It is? For me, it's the functionality. I've never really considered Bricklink a social place.

@BovineBrick said:
"An interview straight from the top level of marketing and no mention of mindfulness, self-care, or DIY? Why do I feel... disappointed?

That being said, an interesting discussion, good on Blocks for making it happen!"

I have to admit, we didn't ask about that particular topic. We will have a bit of content related to that in Issue 78 though, so stay tuned! :)

I don't want to see a real person's face on this web page.

@fakespacesquid said:
" @jkb said:
"Ok, she mentioned that dreadful Ferrari, which is a laughing stock here."

Is it though? I've really only seen negativity towards it from the usual handful of negative members, and most Technic groups I'm a part of only complain about the quantity of stickers, not the build. Some sets are a laughing stock and rightly so, but I haven't seen that for the ""dreadful"" Ferrari"

Sorry that the following videos are in German only and have no subs. But you might want to scroll through and let the images speak for themselves:

LEGO Ferrari:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UScUwQLJUnE
LEGO vs. CaDa (essentially same price, double the pieces, better quality):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4KzKQwZvjA

The videos earned him hundreds of thousands extra subscriptions swithin the last three months.
In addition, the LEGO model has bad ratings on its LEGO shop page for G/A/S.

It's nice that Ms. Goldin reached out, I suppose; but it reads like boilerplate corporate feel-good word salad - to the extent I probably won't pay to read the article.

An individual who resides in a lofty corporate hierarchy will get my attention if they reveal a tidbit about themselves, such as a photo of their home office with their favorite LEGO set(s) on display. Again, I haven't read the article. Does Ms. Goldin talk about her own 'AFOL-ity'?

As far as Bricklink is concerned, I like the fresh user interface - the rest of it should get a good leaving alone.

Speaking of BrickLink, you'd think the new Lego ownership would also bring in resources to give it a modern overhaul. It's long overdue.

If it was the marketing department's great idea to give us black boxes and instruction sheets for "18+" then I have no confidence in their judgement.

@lowlead said:
" It's nice that Ms. Goldin reached out, I suppose; but it reads like boilerplate corporate feel-good word salad - to the extent I probably won't pay to read the article.

An individual who resides in a lofty corporate hierarchy will get my attention if they reveal a tidbit about themselves, such as a photo of their home office with their favorite LEGO set(s) on display. Again, I haven't read the article. Does Ms. Goldin talk about her own 'AFOL-ity'?

As far as Bricklink is concerned, I like the fresh user interface - the rest of it should get a good leaving alone.

"

Exactly. I have a BS in Management but eventually went off on the technical/trade arm of actually working; and this reads like every journal and especially management website article I used to have to use when writing my research papers. My own writing often ends up coming out as "watching paint dry" level boring, but this is a whole new level.

@Yooha said:
"I don't want to see a real person's face on this web page."

That made milk squirt out of my nose!

@lordofdragonss said:
"Did Lego do anything good for Bricklink recently?"

Yes, they started a program that should go live this summer that recreates rejected LEGO Ideas sets and sells them though Bricklink. I suppose that's more geared towards Ideas creators than Bricklink itself, but parts sellers will probably see most of the profits.

@Paperballpark said:
"The issue with the very early modulars such as Cafe Corner and Green Grocer is that they use building techniques which are fairly basic compared to what can be achieved these days. Cafe Corner especially has been put on a pedestal because it was the first, when the fact is that the building is completely empty and the build itself is a fairly hum drum one.

In short, the first few don't come close to the present modular buildings and would be quite likely to be negatively received by anyone who bought them expecting a similar building experience.

Plus, the longer the series goes on, the more likely it is that most collectors will have missed a good proportion of them. It wouldn't be feasible to re-release all of them on a rolling basis."

I think you're right, but what they can do is every once in a while make a new building of the same "role". So maybe another Bank 3-4 years from now, or a new "pet store" next year (Like they do with police/fire under "City", only not so often). This will make the modular city "full". It's not that I specifically care about "Brick Bank", (although it's a very nice set) I just want a modular bank for my city. And I will be happy to add another European style restaurant like similar to the Paris one.

@cody6268 said:
"Kinda weird, as I've always felt LEGO's big issue of late has been the marketing department."
Thats their ALWAYS problem.

@cody6268 said:
"Kinda weird, as I've always felt LEGO's big issue of late has been the marketing department."

Agreed. The big thing that killed BIONICLE Gen 2 is that LEGO left it to fans of the original to spread word of it, and fans of the original hated CCBS and so only spread negative reviews. Hidden Side's app functionality was completely supplemental, but the box-art focused so much on ghosts showing up through your phone it was hard to tell what was and wasn't included in the product so people ignored them.

As a general rule of thumb it seems like a TV show is the best way to market a theme. It's what helped propel Ninjago to the juggernaut it is today, and kept Chima and Nexo Knights afloat for their three year runs.

There's probably zero chance the CMO is reading the comment on this post (given how toxic and unconstructive Brickset comments can be) but if she is I've got one big tip:

More one-off products!

AFOLs will continually demand a theme be "brought back." Bring back Classic Space, bring back Power Miners, bring back Adventurers, but most of the time they don't really mean it. They want the theme to return just so they can buy one or two of the products and let the other four or five sit. Some AFOL's only go for the small parts of the line, some only for the large, so the full reboot can split the demographic, and kids who have no nostalgia for the original won't be interested.

One offs are a different story. If you only make one set for an older theme people will eat it up, as it's the only option they've got to experience that theme. A single product is much easier to market and less risky than a full line, and if you're only demographic is adults printing fewer copies of the set per-batch can guarantee a sell out.

Just look at how massively rebooted themes like Pirates 2015 or BIONICLE Gen 2 flopped, and compare it to how well Benny's Spaceship and Pirates of Barracuda Bay sold.

Reboots don't do well, one offs do amazingly!

I live in hope that one day the rights for Star Trek will be available for Lego to acquire, and we can start seeing Star Trek sets!

Blah Blah Blah. Just keep the sets in stock.

@lordofdragonss said:
"Did Lego do anything good for Bricklink recently?"

As a hobby seller on BrickLink I have noticed a very significant increase in sales and in new buyers (those that have recently created an account).

@Hotzenplotz said:
""At the LEGO Group, we stay very curious – that is the only way to keep up with children!"
"We put in a lot of effort to hear from children and their families, and we do this globally."

Yeah, LEGO makes indeed a lot of effort finding the next IP for their next product.

Btw, @ LEGO marketing team: I also made a lot of efforts to hear what kids like and after almost three decades of intensive research I came to a really unexpected conclusion:
Kids seem to like animals, pirates, knights, even cowboys. And this even if the latter don't exist anymore! Oh kids...

I was really shocked by my own results and my world view shattered because I thought Youtube, TicToc and Super Heroes IPs is the really cool stuff. :(
"

You talking to kids is not the same as extensive market research and sales figures showing what kids like. I mean, I love movies, but I'm not going to demand that LEGO replace Technic with Studios just because the people I talk to like filmmaking more than engineering.
I'm sure that occasional, low production cost, reboots of Pirates, Castle, or Space could do well, but proposing the removal of Star Wars, Super Heroes, etc is preposterous. Without the massive revenue generated by Avengers sets, we wouldn't have nostalgic IDEAS stuff like Baraccuda bay.

I also found this article very uninspiring and uninformative. Exactly like annual reports from share trading. This is meant to be Lego.... I dont mind a serious article but put a bit of humanity in there! Furthermore, please explain. We already know lego researches its target market, congratulations, gold star and a Victoria Cross for lego marketing team. Every company does that! What are kids interested in now? Have there been any fundamental changes in the Lego ideology or marketing worldview as a result of changing times and if so what are they?

Poor Ole and Godfred. The Lego Group has just turned into another large corporation: Make as much money as possible, screw as many people as possible in order to achieve the previous goal, follow populism rather then consistent trends How many kids still play with Skylanders with its 'put the toy in the game' function? How many kids will remember Tik Tok in 5 years time?and dont forget to ruin everything you can get your hands on, be it Creator Ex-expert (not a typo) or Bricklink.

I can tell you now kids (young boys particularly) are still interested in pirates and at least fantasy medieval (after all, if the latter was no longer interesting to kids we wouldnt have all these LoTR, Hobbit, GoT, Vikings [both the TV show and actual history], How to Train your Dragon, Brave etc. now would we?) That doesnt mean we completely get rid of Star Wars or Superheroes, we just try new ideas on old things. Look at City Police for christ sake, theyve been doing police sets every year (sometimes twice a year now) since at least 1978!

@GSR_MataNui said:
"There's probably zero chance the CMO is reading the comment on this post (given how toxic and unconstructive Brickset comments can be) but if she is I've got one big tip:

More one-off products!

AFOLs will continually demand a theme be "brought back." Bring back Classic Space, bring back Power Miners, bring back Adventurers, but most of the time they don't really mean it. They want the theme to return just so they can buy one or two of the products and let the other four or five sit. Some AFOL's only go for the small parts of the line, some only for the large, so the full reboot can split the demographic, and kids who have no nostalgia for the original won't be interested.

One offs are a different story. If you only make one set for an older theme people will eat it up, as it's the only option they've got to experience that theme. A single product is much easier to market and less risky than a full line, and if you're only demographic is adults printing fewer copies of the set per-batch can guarantee a sell out.

Just look at how massively rebooted themes like Pirates 2015 or BIONICLE Gen 2 flopped, and compare it to how well Benny's Spaceship and Pirates of Barracuda Bay sold.

Reboots don't do well, one offs do amazingly!"

^^Good points here, for sure. 70816 and 70841 illustrate this very well in my opinion. I'm in that Classic Space camp that would stop whinging if they gave us a Galaxy Explorer with a couple crater baseplates! =oD On that point, I wonder why LEGO Legends didn't last very long.

Also, I've enjoyed reading the comments on this article! Biting criticism and genuine love for the LEGO brand are not mutually exclusive. I think we all criticize because we actually care a LOT about the product...am I wrong here, or?

I think a few people forgot the first sentence: In this exclusive excerpt from Blocks magazine Issue 77.... the full article might have more in depth and personal feel to it...

@busyman said:
"Speaking of BrickLink, you'd think the new Lego ownership would also bring in resources to give it a modern overhaul. It's long overdue. "

Be careful what you wish for. When Lego overhauls a website, its usually not for the better...

@busyman said:
"Speaking of BrickLink, you'd think the new Lego ownership would also bring in resources to give it a modern overhaul. It's long overdue. "

Frankly, I hope Lego doesn't. The [mis]management of their online store concerns me that they'll make BrickLink go backwards.

Old Man Yells At Cloud indeed.

Good to hear from all the experts here anyway, whom I suspect do not actually hold a degree in marketing.

"...and it’s the connections and collaboration you find on BrickLink that make it so special."

If by "connections and collaboration" she means "paying people to send you LEGO things you want", then yes, I agree that's what makes Bricklink so special.

@Djhorn:
It _IS_ a tiny sliver of fans. Look up the 6mo sales history for Cafe Corner on Bricklink. There are 22 New sales, 16 of which were priced well below the average sale price for a Used copy (and half of those were sub-$100). Looking at the For Sale listings shows that one person is selling individual floors as New sets.

For Used, there were 44 copies solid in the last half year, and even one of those was less than 1/3 the cheapest Used copy available right now.

Really when you get down to brass tacks, there are a lot ("lot" being a highly relative term in this case) of very vocal fans who simply have to own more than twice what they can actually afford. Rerelease these, and you put them in a conundrum where they have to choose between buying the repro of this set, or some other must-have set that's on the Retiring Soon list (and which they'll certainly be asking to be rereleased five years down the road if they don't get it now).

These sales numbers aren't even enough to support stocking it at _ONE_ LEGO Store for a single year, much less throwing their production schedule all out of whack to support a set that no longer fits their available parts profile. Sales didn't justify a second year of the Legends theme, and many of those sets were sub-$100.

@Hotzenplotz:
Oh, as long as there's ranching in this world, there will be cowboys. There certainly are in the US, and the Argentinian caballero is probably even more prevalent.

@TheMikeAwakens:
There's a social aspect in the forums. A large chunk of what happens there is geared towards the business aspect of the site, to be sure, but a lot of generic AFOL banter occurs as well. Or at least I assume it still does. To be honest, I had a particularly galling experience with someone on the BL forums and quit cold turkey. I don't even read them anymore because reading tempts one to participate.

@jkb:
Remember that Germany is a small portion of the overall LEGO market, and it is rapidly being dwarfed from both ends of the spectrum. Not only do you have China building up to potentially challenge the US for top consumer market in the future, but Germany is a rare nation that has been shifting away from LEGO products as customers begin to feel like LEGO values stopped catering directly to their tastes. And it should be noted that shifting away from catering directly to German tastes occurred during a time when they went on to surpass both Hasbro and Mattel to become the largest toymaker on the planet. It may not seem like it in your neck of the woods, but it turned out to be a sound business decision on their part.

@GSR_MataNui:
If they're going to force US buyers to use onsite Paypal, I'd prefer they finally get around to scrapping the janky code that got hacked to a standstill twice. At present, I've cut myself off from Bricklink purchases until I can figure out a risk-free means of submitting payments. They never did figure out how someone got in to begin with, which gives me 0.0% confidence in their ability to maintain security over a system where they basically want me to hand over the keys to my Paypal account and by extension every financial resource I may have attached to it.

"Children, and the world around them, never stop changing"
Do they though? Last time I was a kid in the core audience (that was like, idk 12 years ago or something), everyone still liked Pirates, Knights, Space, Construction ... the usual classic stuff. This was the case for a very long time before me and I suppose this wouldn't have changed during the last 10 years. I mean judging by my little cousin, it is still the same to this day. Granted he is into tanks a lot, but that's something Lego is trying to avoid (which I perfectly understand)

@GSR_MataNui said:
"AFOLs will continually demand a theme be "brought back." Bring back Classic Space, bring back Power Miners, bring back Adventurers, but most of the time they don't really mean it."

What evidence do you have that AFOLs don't wholeheartedly want these themes brought back? The 2015 pirates wasn't much of a "revival" because only 6 years had passed since the 2009 wave, with POTC sets being released in between (which were moderately well-received by fans of nonlicensed pirates who didn't care for the movie franchise). The reasons why AFOLs didn't like 2015 pirates (and 2013 Castle) was the lack of creativity from Lego repeating the previous wave's concepts. The 2009 Pirates and 2010 Kingdoms themes were a strong showing, each theme culminating in a legendary D2C set.
Kingdoms' immediate 2013 successor was decried for the same concept of good lion knights vs. evil dragon knights. There were similar sets such as the dragon knights' prison carriage, (7949 and 70401) the castle of the king of the lion knights (7946 / 70404) the prison tower where the dragon knights locked away the lion princess (7947 vs. 70703) and the dragons' catapult besieging the lions' outpost tower (7948 & 70402).
2015 Pirates' creativity was even worse with every set (minus the chess set) being a redo. The soldiers' cannon vs. pirate barricade, (6239, 70409) a pirate raft with octopus, (6240, 70410) the treasure island (6241, 70411) the soldiers' fort with pirates' rowboat (guess the set numbers). The worst by far was the (literal) flagship. LEGO had a contest to come up with the name, and deliberately chose the suggestion of "The Brick Bounty." When the set was officially revealed, it was a rehash of the 2009 "BRICKbeard's BOUNTY" which somehow had 200 more pieces yet was worse in most ways: a more juniorized design (i. e. using masts with molded crow's nest from 2004 4+ Pirates), small sawfish which the 2009 shark could swallow up, skeleton vs. mermaid figurehead, brown vs. gold chest, no classic chrome coins, regular red vs. dark red, and minus the plank-walking damsel-in-distress and monkey. Only improvement were an anchor (whoops, how could they have forgotten in 2009?) and better-printed exclusive minifigures (and scummily so, with nostalgia-bait Redbeard clone Lego wanted to guard so hard he was given Brickbeard's torso and no peg leg in the chess set. Historically pirate captains like Redbeard and Brickbeard were common and came in smaller sets as well. Even the 2009 female figures from the ship reappeared in an advent calendar) It was an insult to fans' intelligence who knew better to make a near identical ship and then choose a name, where they could have chosen any, that drove home the point.
2015 Bionicle in the above post was given an excellent explanation of why it failed:
"LEGO left it to fans of the original to spread word of it, and fans of the original hated CCBS and so only spread negative reviews."
The Constraction system has changed, but the classic LEGO System hasn't. If Classic Space is brought back, however, I hope curved pieces and bubble cockpits are avoided to give the classic angular charm. Plenty of sci-fi uses angular designs and looks very sleek.

The one-offs like Barracuda Bay have sold most likely both because AFOLs are desperate for the classic themes, and because they hope that by voting with their wallet will convince LEGO to do a full revival. Benny's Space squad sold out fast while other TLM2 sets stuck around into deep discounts.

Reviving themes can work extremely well, I give two words for that: Harry Potter. Even though it's been almost a decade since the last movie.

You are entitled to your opinion on why you think reviving classic themes won't work, but it is unethical to question others' sincerity of their wishes, especially in an attempt to tell LEGO to not listen to them, thus crushing their hopes and dreams.