Three projects withdrawn from BrickLink Designer Program

Such a shame! I love the old fishing store and would have purchased all three additions in a heartbeat!
But I will never purchase the clone brand versions.
So life continues without these excellent models.

The castle in the forest, the winter chalet and the pursuit of flight seem like very interesting builds.

When I saw this yesterday (with a lot less context) my first thought was the builder got a job with LEGO. Welp...

Did LEGO really not check this conflict before the "OK to go"? The 3 affected sets mearly resemble the BB versions and the BL Designer Program forces the designers to modify the sets anyway due to part availability, so I wonder what really is the issue? Such a shame.... was really looking forward to expand the Old Fishing Store.

@R0Sch said:
"Did LEGO really not check this conflict before the "OK to go"? The 3 affected sets mearly resemble the BB versions and the BL Designer Program forces the designers to modify the sets anyway due to part availability, so I wonder what really is the issue? Such a shame.... was really looking forward to expand the Old Fishing Store."

I'd bet the issue is a contract the creator signed with the clone brand, which LEGO then discovered recently.

And the culling begins! Given that they only invited 32 projects, you’d think they’d be able to look around and make sure that the designer isn’t willingly working with competitors, so this could also possibly be on RA’s side where he chose to withdraw due to contract issues with the other company. Either way, my money is safe for a while longer

If the Lego Idea platform would work properly in the first place, all these projects would have been made into an official set already and none of that would be an issue today. There are several rules in the Lego ideas that must be changed. This is a place where fans have a chance to voice their needs and wants and yet, time and time again Lego keeps rebuffing them. It is a shame as The Old Fishing Store has been voted amongst the best ever Lego set (2nd place, if I recall) and this could have been a new modular series with an "out of a city" setting. Alas, this won't be the last time that Lego has taken decisions beyond any comprehension.

Surely “Pursuit of Flight” by JKBrickworks will never be approved because some similar biplanes were used in WW1 and it would “clash with our values”

On the other hand: Bluebrixx might well be worth a try.
There's not only Robenanne designs but also loads of other very interesting architecture and train stuff- and they stock lots of other clone brands without us having to buy from the Mighty Amazon.

@Pongo said:
"On the other hand: Bluebrixx might well be worth a try.
There's not only Robenanne designs but also loads of other very interesting architecture and train stuff- and they stock lots of other clone brands without us having to buy from the Mighty Amazon.

"

Sure, let's support brands that work with Chinese copy cat companies that first steal the ideas and sell the sets there and afterwards ask to make a deal with the designers to be able to sell them in Europe too.

Most comments here assume LEGO threw out these entries. However, The Brick Fan reports that the designer withdrew the designs. Perhaps his contract with the clone brand is exclusive, meaning he is not allowed to now sell the designs to LEGO. That is not somethong LEGO would have known, as they would not have seen that contract.

I cry, while I didn't have any planned space for that I am saddened by the circumstances. So far my picks are (that I can remember): 1950's Dinner, Modular Lego Store, Construction Site, Brickwest Studios, Padoga Temple, Bionicle, Space Troopers and Science Adventures among others if I am not mistaken. When they are available (if possible) I hope that LEGO themselves don't have anything interesting for my wallet sake.

My wallet is happy to hear this, my heart... not so much : (

No blog knows for sure what the real issue is until an official statement from either LEGO or the designer.
There was a detailed article on zusammengebaut about the Bluebrixx / Urge - Robert +
LEGO Ideas dilemma on 08/2020:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://zusammengebaut.com/lego-ideas-dilemma-angelladen-designer-verkauft-moc-rechte-an-anderen-hersteller-99366/

This will not be the first time we will hear about this kind of conflict and the more Ideas sets reach 10k, the more reverse engineered and illegally sold sets will become available on the alternative market. Even the Modular Construction Site is currently being sold on Ali and a lot of brickybricks Ideas MOC's.

Ugh, those models on BlueBrixx are the first time I’ve found clone Lego appealing. It’s been frustrating watching his other great projects make it through Ideas just to be rejected.

Pity

@WemWem said:
"Ugh, those models on BlueBrixx are the first time I’ve found clone Lego appealing. It’s been frustrating watching his other great projects make it through Ideas just to be rejected."

Eh, I have different feelings.

Like, I wouldn't mind if Lego developed a further partnership with the designer for an ongoing old seaside fishing village theme . . . but it would be awful if Ideas became a source of spitting out similar models by the same designers over and over again.

@CapnRex101
@Slobrojoe said:
"Surely “Pursuit of Flight” by JKBrickworks will never be approved because some similar biplanes were used in WW1 and it would “clash with our values”"

"Rightly or wrongly, LEGO considers aircraft from that period to be 'historic' so any military applications become irrelevant.

Of course, that begs questions concerning the date when aircraft stop being 'historic' and whether that date moves as time passes.""

I feel like LEGO’s policy of what is “historic war” is less of a specific date, and more of a “are the effects of this war still felt by large groups of people”.

@CCC said:
"I thought that designers are not meant to be able to commercialize failed 10K projects for something like three years, so perhaps LEGO did not realize that he had gone to another brick producing company to produce his MOCs."

This was my understanding as well. Lego Ideas T&Cs says that if a 10K set is not approved, they still own the rights to your submission for 3 years. I don't see how he's been able to set up an agreement with BlueBrixx without being in breach of that.

Doss the clone competitor make instructions freely available like Lego?
At least we could build them w the real stuff....

@Cooliocdawg said:
" @CapnRex101
@Slobrojoe said:
"Surely “Pursuit of Flight” by JKBrickworks will never be approved because some similar biplanes were used in WW1 and it would “clash with our values”"

Rightly or wrongly, LEGO considers aircraft from that period to be 'historic' so any military applications become irrelevant.

Of course, that begs questions concerning the date when aircraft stop being 'historic' and whether that date moves as time passes."

If I remember correctly, WWI is the most recent that LEGO will make sets for. Because there are still people alive that personally were affected by WWII, that’s where it stops. Obviously the American Civil War is out, because the affects of it are still prevalent today. I feel like LEGO’s policy of what is “historic war” is less of a specific date, and more of a “are the effects of this war still felt by large groups of people”."

I think the entire Middle East would argue that they are still affected by the decisions of WW 1

@Pongo said:
"On the other hand: Bluebrixx might well be worth a try.
There's not only Robenanne designs but also loads of other very interesting architecture and train stuff- and they stock lots of other clone brands without us having to buy from the Mighty Amazon.
"

So you came into our church just to speak this blasphemy?

J/k, I actually love clone brands and what they have to offer. I remember getting some Tyco in the late '80's with their rubery minifigs and as an AFOL have stumbled upon off-brand bricks within large second hand lots. I've even bought a small minions Mega blocks set along the way.

I'm just so gratefull for these cheap ways to get bricks, because every time I hold them in my hands it just reaffirms my choice for paying 3x their price to get that precision moulding, that nice 'click' when you snap bricks together, that feeling that everything 'just works'. I don't think I'd truly be able to appreciate how awesome Lego is without proper comparison.

That seems like an incredibly important thing to miss.
LEGO is a multi-million dollar company. Surely their advertising department could've looked at the competition sooner and realized something was off.
And surely the designers would've mentioned something about having a deal with a rival company before the models were submitted.

All around a very weird scenario.

@HOBBES said:
"If the Lego Idea platform would work properly in the first place, all these projects would have been made into an official set already and none of that would be an issue today. There are several rules in the Lego ideas that must be changed. This is a place where fans have a chance to voice their needs and wants and yet, time and time again Lego keeps rebuffing them. It is a shame as The Old Fishing Store has been voted amongst the best ever Lego set (2nd place, if I recall) and this could have been a new modular series with an "out of a city" setting. Alas, this won't be the last time that Lego has taken decisions beyond any comprehension. "

They’re a business. They produce what will sell.

@deejdave said:
"............Keep approving the crap that you have been and the people will take matters into their own hands. This is a lesson that just will not sink in with TLG. Different skin same lesson..........."

Except this builder already A. had an Ideas submission produced and B. had two more sets in a related but different pipeline to be produced. So what is it you're on about?

It is extremely unrealistic to assume the same builder will have more than one submission approved by LEGO. The fact these models were being considered under the Bricklink umbrella is an example of how the process ought to work, IMO.

@deejdave said:
"............Keep approving the crap that you have been and the people will take matters into their own hands. This is a lesson that just will not sink in with TLG. Different skin same lesson..........."

What does this even mean

I can see clone brands are trying to keep away from directly copying existing Lego sets and thus are now approaching designers who have had lots of publicity, but still no end product through official means. I guess at the time the designer made his decision he probably didn't know that Bricklink were interested in rebooting rejected ideas.

Although, I've never purchased a clone set, looking at all the different train designs and accessories on the BlueBrixx site, I can see how it would be very difficult to replicate the Flying Scotsman or any other BR train with official Lego given the lack of availability for the parts needed on Bricklink, making this area fair game for someone else to fill the void.

@R0Sch said:
"Did LEGO really not check this conflict before the "OK to go"? The 3 affected sets mearly resemble the BB versions and the BL Designer Program forces the designers to modify the sets anyway due to part availability, so I wonder what really is the issue? Such a shame.... was really looking forward to expand the Old Fishing Store."

Its interesting that Lego even produced the Old Fishing store as there is one on Blue Brixx that is called Dockyard Restaurant that looks a lot like the Fishing Store... Hmmm. Seems like the designer went rogue.

Dang. These were at the top of my list.

I’m disappointed, as those were some really cool sets I was interested in getting, especially as I missed out on the original fishing store. But on the other hand, super relieved for my wallet! And I suppose that takes out some of the competition for the other potential sets. Just strange situation though, contracts don’t just come out of nowhere.

Disappointing way to begin my day.

@Slobrojoe said:
"Surely “Pursuit of Flight” by JKBrickworks will never be approved because some similar biplanes were used in WW1 and it would “clash with our values”"

And I think his original design was and X-wing and TIE fighter. Didn't he change them to planes for better chances in Ideas? Either way... great model!

@Snaz said:
"Why on earth would you sign on with a clone brand?"

If the clone brand is willing to pay someone to design a product for them, then I can't fault the designers for taking their skills elsewhere. Gotta make a buck somehow.

@jaredhinton said:
" @fakespacesquid said:
"And the culling begins! Given that they only invited 32 projects, you’d think they’d be able to look around and make sure that the designer isn’t willingly working with competitors, so this could also possibly be on RA’s side where he chose to withdraw due to contract issues with the other company. Either way, my money is safe for a while longer"

They invited more than 32. They invited all 10k sets that were based on non IP ideas. Only 32 wanted to continue with the process.
"

From their FAQ: "Considering the maximum number of sets we can produce, only 32 projects were selected among all the unrealized LEGO Ideas projects." And only 31 were ever shown, because one of the designers had two projects invited and was only able to go through the process for one. They didn't invite more than 32

Look at it this way, it opens it up for 3 of the other sets to have a better chance at getting produced now (assuming all the rest make it thru the current pre-production revisions/build testing rounds).

@jdm said:
"Doss the clone competitor make instructions freely available like Lego?
At least we could build them w the real stuff...."
Bluebrixx does make PDF instructions available, but you do have to register for the site, and (like Lego), not until after the set has been released.

@HOBBES said:
"If the Lego Idea platform would work properly in the first place, all these projects would have been made into an official set already and none of that would be an issue today. There are several rules in the Lego ideas that must be changed. This is a place where fans have a chance to voice their needs and wants and yet, time and time again Lego keeps rebuffing them. It is a shame as The Old Fishing Store has been voted amongst the best ever Lego set (2nd place, if I recall) and this could have been a new modular series with an "out of a city" setting. Alas, this won't be the last time that Lego has taken decisions beyond any comprehension. "

While some changes could be made to the platform (many have over the years), there’s nothing about it “not working”. It works just fine. But there are loads of other issues in making a set aside from just the 10,000 votes. That merely gets it to the review stage, where Lego then goes through the process to see if a set is a viable model worth producing, or even can be made logistically.

You can't blame Rob for signing a deal with Bluebrixx. At the time he signed the deal, Lego had no interest in producing any of these designs beyond the Old Fishing Store. Now, he has more creative control over what he can do with them.

@deejdave said:
"............Keep approving the crap that you have been and the people will take matters into their own hands. This is a lesson that just will not sink in with TLG. Different skin same lesson..........."

I'm racking my brain trying to come up with an Ideas set that hasn't sold well and I keep coming up with nothing. I understand not liking every set and even being disappointed by the stuff that doesn't get made but I think implying that TLG is making poor business decisions by approving Ideas sets that people don't buy isn't supported by the evidence.

@Mr__Thrawn said:
" @HOBBES said:
"If the Lego Idea platform would work properly in the first place, all these projects would have been made into an official set already and none of that would be an issue today. There are several rules in the Lego ideas that must be changed. This is a place where fans have a chance to voice their needs and wants and yet, time and time again Lego keeps rebuffing them. It is a shame as The Old Fishing Store has been voted amongst the best ever Lego set (2nd place, if I recall) and this could have been a new modular series with an "out of a city" setting. Alas, this won't be the last time that Lego has taken decisions beyond any comprehension. "

They’re a business. They produce what will sell."

Fair enough! What I do not understand is when they don't want to sell what will sell.

well if only bluebrixx did a good job with these ... they are a quite opportunistic folk that sell whatever is somewhat legal yet shady coming from asia ... no direct copies of lego models anymore as this is too dangerous legally, but if a copycat steals a moc they don't hesitate to sell it in Europe, if it is too obvious or people find out, they try to calm the waves by paying the designer something in hindsight and brag about it on the website. sometimes they buy mocs (which is okay!) or try to design own models (which is okay too of course!).
then there is quality control on a design and building techniques level (bricks usually are okay nowadays): mocs and fan designs are usually not bad, but they there is no review our changes in the builds like Lego does it with own designs and ideas entries - they order the parts, put them into boxes, publish the instructions as-is, and if you are lucky the moc designer did a good job, if not, the building experience, stability and playability of the set is mediocre at best ...
there are German reviews of the fishing village on YouTube (I don't link the Youtuber, he's quite populist nowadays) showing the deficits of these sets quite drastically - not to blame the designer, he just agreed to a deal that was already set between the Chinese copy cats and bluebrixx, and had no chance to improve his drafts ... but blame on bluebrixx as they didn't change anything, not even the worst mistakes in the drafts or the copy the Chinese made by pirating the sets ...

it's a pity as the designs are good, just what we can buy now has not received any polish and they are not cheap either ... lost designs to me, as I like building, but not tinkering around so much. so sad.

As I look through the BlueBrixx versions of these sets, they strike me as way too similar to the Old Fishing Store in implementation. I think Lego would have given each one enough changes and details to stand out as distinct.

But I do tend to agree that Lego producing an entire line of similar buildings isn’t the best use of Lego Ideas. And I do really enjoy the Old Fishing Store.

@HOBBES said:
" @Mr__Thrawn said:
" @HOBBES said:
"If the Lego Idea platform would work properly in the first place, all these projects would have been made into an official set already and none of that would be an issue today. There are several rules in the Lego ideas that must be changed. This is a place where fans have a chance to voice their needs and wants and yet, time and time again Lego keeps rebuffing them. It is a shame as The Old Fishing Store has been voted amongst the best ever Lego set (2nd place, if I recall) and this could have been a new modular series with an "out of a city" setting. Alas, this won't be the last time that Lego has taken decisions beyond any comprehension. "

They’re a business. They produce what will sell."

Fair enough! What I do not understand is when they don't want to sell what will sell.
"

The thing is, things aren’t guaranteed to sell just because it gets votes. There isn’t a 1:1 correlation between casting a vote and buying a set. Many votes are simply because they like a design, but have no intention of purchasing. Lego knows this, so they consider a lot of things when actually making a set.

The deleted models do look really creative and interesting so I’m pleased they’re available for fans to buy. I wonder how the total amount the designer stands to earn from the clone brand association might compare with the same through an association with TLG?

Some of the clone bricks which I’ve encountered have the appearance of being produced in a LEGO factory but with the brand name mysteriously omitted from the moulds. When you cannot see the tops of the studs they can appear pretty indistinguishable from the Danish variety. I imagine they might be a cost effective way to produce a large display.

Some competition like this in the marketplace could be a good thing. It’s arguably no worse than a manufacturer trying to control both the primary and the secondary markets at the same time. It could be refreshing to see for sale bulk packs of bricks in colours which LEGO don’t sell, or for which they reserve for use at LEGOLAND parks. Or perhaps realising improvements to some part designs. Interesting times.

@HOBBES:
It’s “Ideas”, not “Themes”. The rules are quite clear that you can’t propose an ongoing theme (there’s now another platform for that sort of thing), and once a project gets accepted it means anything that’s too similar will be automatically rejected. The fact that the Old Fishing Store did get accepted is the reason all three of these projects did not.

@CDM:
There are at least two designers who have had two or more sets make it through review and get turned into official sets. Considering how few total projects they greenlit, that’s a pretty notable percentage. The issue is that, like everyone else, you have to submit something completely new each time. @Alatariel had her Research Institute 2 rejected because it was the exact same concept as the first one that went to production. She co-designed The Big Bang Theory, and that got accepted because it had nothing to do with Research Institute. Likewise this designer got a harbor building approved, and then submitted _three_more_ harbor buildings. Of course none of them got accepted after the first. But that doesn’t mean the designer was permanently banned from getting another project through the process. It just couldn’t be another harbor building. I actually thought @Alatariel had a real shot at being the first to clear three projects with the Amelia Earhart kid’s book.

One thing to consider is that not every person who builds MOCs wants to submit any of them to Ideas. Of those who do, not all of them have a chance of hitting 10k. Someone who has already gotten a project approved not only has the talent to design something that can make it to the end, but they also have instant name recognition for having submitted such-and-such project in the past. That’s going to boost their number of supporters and make it easier to clear 10k and get into review.

I strongly suspect that Lego doesn't want to "copy" something produced by a clone brick manufacturer as it will set a precedent that will be used against them by said clone brick manufacturers in the future. If they want to take things to court, they will need to maintain a moral high ground.

@spikes:
LEGO has always been cheaper in Germany than in the rest of Europe - at least as far as I can remember.
So that is not BECAUSE of the increasing awareness of clone brands in Germany.
But no doubt BB becomes more and more familiar in the (German) ADULT brick scene. And that is for a reason: The colour scheme is WAY more appealing to adults than the original. There is no lime, yellow, blue used when the set is mainly tan, white and grey. No stupid coloured technic pins... BUT the sets I have at home do have the quality of MOCs and cannot be compared - as far as stability is concerned - to TLC sets. (Nothing that can't be improved by yourself though...)

One general thing TLC has to think about is:
What, when the clone brands reach 99% of LEGO quality (and - depending on the clone brand - they are not not too far from that!) and do their original product line (maybe with designs from former AFOLs) what will be the main reason NOT to buy the cheaper clone bricks instead?

What if the transparent parts of the clones are really transparent (and not the milky transparent from TLC)? What if the clone brands have a better colour consistency??

What will happen if the clone brands start to produce own new part designs?
For example 1x5 or 1x7 plates ..., "medium" bricks, that have 2/3 of a bricks height (or 2 plates high)?

The clone brands will surely want to secure their "IP" in the same way TLC does it right now.

It is really interesting times nowadays...

@Snaz said:
"Why on earth would you sign on with a clone brand?"
Depends on the definition of "clone brand".
Lepin for example produced clones of LEGO sets down to copies of the manuals and box art, hence they are rightfully called a clone brand.

Then there's companies that produce compatible bricks, the patents and design protection of which have expired. Are these "clone brands" too, even though they use designs by their own designers, like BlueBrixx does for their BlueBrixx Specials line of products, like their trains, vehicles and buildings?

The bricks for those sets by the way are not produced by BlueBrixx at all, but are sourced from various independent Chinese manufacturers and hand packaged into plain cardboard boxes, without printed manuals mind you. Those are available as PDFs from the BlueBrixx website.
That's one of the really cool things about BlueBrixx. If you don't want to support a "clone brand" by purchasing their sets, you don't have to. Just register an email address on their website and you can download each and every instruction manual of their designs for free. Buy the pieces from Bricklink or LEGO themselves and build the sets out of original LEGO if you like the designs. The CEO of BlueBrixx himself said in one of their designer videos that they don't mind at all if you do that. Perhaps knowing full well that once you try this with some of their sets you will find that this can cost you a fortune, as they like to use parts in their sets that are extremely rare in official LEGO form (or not available at all from LEGO in the colours used by BlueBrixx) and hence very expensive, plus they often use large quantities of said pieces.

I have built dozens of their sets, and if one is perfectly honest, while many of their designs are great, and imho often way more appealing than what TLG puts out at the moment (especially if you are into German-centered source material), the quality of the parts they provide is hit and miss. Sometimes a complete set is near perfect, but sometimes several types of pieces leave something to be desired. Especially their versions of the well known headlight bricks used by LEGO since the early 80s often have very little clutch power, same goes for the ingot pieces often used as decorative elements and for greebling. This is one of the reasons BlueBrixx still has quite a bit of room for improvement.

Also, the problem some people have with BlueBrixx (and rightfully so imho) is that they not only offer their own sets as mentioned, but that they also sell sets by other brands in their online store. Brands like MouldKing, UrGe, ZheGao and the like, who appear to be into stealing MOCs at times. If I were them I would stick to selling only their own sets and ditch all those other third party products, most of which are not very appealing to begin with anyway.

And then there's a third category of products called BlueBrixx Pro, which are sets designed by BlueBrixx designers or designers who made a deal with BlueBrixx, like RobenAnne. These sets are then produced by Xingbao, labeled as "designed by BlueBrixx", and come with "normal" packaging and printed manuals. I haven't built any of these yet so can't say anything about the quality of those, or lack thereof.