How should the Ulysses Space Probe have been distributed?

This was the first time I used the new VIP system since its launch. Due to the fact that for the better part of a decade now the Lego.com site always crashes when highly promoted items are released or their is a sale/GWP promotion. Combine the crash prone website, new checkout process (with more steps) and the additional steps to redeem the Ulysses Space Probe. There was just too much opportunity for people to experience a crash at some point in trying to obtain the set,

Clearly Lego needs to address it website infrastructure or either simplify the process so crashes do not occur (as frequently).

Note: I was lucky to obtain Ulysses Space Probe (showing shipped) but there were issues in completing the process. The most important being after submitting my order with the promo code I was not taken to the processing order/order number page, but was given the "Looks like something has gone wrong!" page. My credit card was billed, but I had no order number; luckily after 5-10 minutes the order number showed up in my account the eventual confirmation email was received.

Does anyone know how many of these were actually made?

I'm assuming its probably below 10k, possibly lower than 5k.

@Minifig290 said:
"Does anyone know how many of these were actually made?

I'm assuming its probably below 10k, possibly lower than 5k."

I've heard about number lower than 3K. : )

It should have been offered for VIP points to all those who purchased the Shuttle on it's first day of release. Then offer the remaining stock to all other VIP's.

I think there were too few pieces. In Hungary ftom 10:00 clock Lego homepage became overloaded. At 11:30 reward was sold out!
Better idea to produce enough piece and let it to buy for everybody!

I think a raffle/lottery would have worked best as that way it’s more random and everyone has a chance of winning rather than just those with a better Internet or logging on at the right time. After all it’s how they do it for comic con exclusives

Moving these types of things to VIP redeemable is a really bad idea as it limits access to the set even more for people in countries that do not have Lego online or brand stores to buy from and collect points for those purchases. In Australia Lego is cheapest at general retail stores and we do not have any Brand stores, only certified, so collecting VIP points to redeem for good GWP's would fall more to those who can afford to buy full priced Lego all the time. Personally only buy direct from Lego online store 2-3 times a year when a few really good GWP's line up together or double VIP points for the annual Christmas set, so if they change it to VIP rewards, I'm never going to get GWP's again. And as for sweepstakes or lottery, I understand that these already happen in the US and or Europe for some things? Not 100% sure on that but we don't get them in Australia. Our Rewards center has money off, park/LDC tickets, lots of colouring sheets or wallpapers and sometimes prints. Oh and that Stranger Things notebook which can not be very popular as it has been on there a very very long time!! Recently the coins have been added but sell out very very quick, but then usually any good GWP goes the first day or two at most when it becomes available, so don't think we get a great deal of stock. Actually we don't get that many GWP's, a new one just went up which is a Dots frame polybag from last year, first thing we've had in nearly a month.

Whatever they do they just need to start making more of the items so it's easier for people that want them to get them. Even this satellite thing this week was a mess here is Australia, it went live about 3.5hrs after it was supposed to and was gone after about 10mins, not that I had the points anyway lol

Promotional sets cause upset & frustration. From comic-con specials, regional exclusives & VIP points only sets, Lego still hasn’t got the balance right. The only people that profit are the scalpers & re-sellers. I have stopped blaming Lego & I’ve stopped blaming the profiteering bottom feeders, the fault lies with people who have deep pockets & pay the hugely inflated prices. I am still annoyed by the Bespin Duel set, as it was a fantastic scene but I was not going to part with crazy money to get it. Lego at some point will see the light & do on demand orders only. That way, there would be no wasted resources, no failed set or theme releases & no Lego sets reduced to 50% off on the shelves...

What about an auction with the money raised going to a charitable cause?

Preorders seem to make the most sense for this and a lot of sets. People wouldn’t love waiting months, but it’s sure better than not getting anything.

However, my first reaction to this whole thing though is wondering why they didn’t just charge more? Like with the coin - if it’s supposed to be exclusive and collectible, why not make it 25,000 points? That would surely reduce demand and make sure it was on sale for a while. As I’m not a collector or reseller and I open and build all my sets, this would have made it an easy pass for me, instead of something I’m sad I didn’t get.

Lego should keep bricks and minifigs out of these very low production offerings. Keep doing coins, keychains, prints, and other peripheral collectibles.

As an incredibly profitable organisation Lego don't need crowdfunding. If you want a system as messed up as what just happened crowdfunding fills that function. If Lego only start making sets which consumers underwrite first we are all doomed.
Just GWP with supply based on realistic demand backed by experience & data with safe margin of error factored in.

It is really difficult to balance something being 'exclusive' and available to all who qualify. There are many ways to fail (as Lego is proving) and success is a bit nebulous. One obvious indicator of failure though is a resale market where items are going for multiples of the original cost. Harder to calculate with VIP points admittedly, but how much do you have to spend to get 1800?

A 'pre-order' system has merit, at least for getting to the ballpark volume. The opportunity cost of manufacturing 10K of the Ulysses though has to something - how much of another set could be made instead? Here it's Lego giving something to consumers whose money they already have, with some degree of complexity. At which point it's basically a Gift With Previous Purchase!

With these limited sets it would be nice if they were tied to orders at a particular time, and possibly pre-ordered. Everyone who orders a Discovery on launch day gets one, and then while the set is around maybe on important dates? If you've previously bought a discovery in a launch window then maybe you're eligible to pre-order subsequent satellite sets? Discovery not only put up Hubble and Ulysses but also really nerdy stuff like ACTS for the gigabit network.

I'd also wonder if we need to change how we think about these sets - I'd be happy with them in a paper bag, heck, it would be amazing if they were a monthly build at brand stores or could be assembled from pick a brick selections. If what Lego provided were instructions, sticker, plaque, and maybe a couple of rarer bricks I'd go for that if I got it. Rather than sitting at my computer getting frustrated.

For me other than annoyances with the current online VIP system (60 days, one code per purchase) Lego simply need to produce more product.

I think the space probe was the first VIP set reward that had not previously been a promo or GWP so there was all the demand from all VIPs.

The coins are similar to other keyring rewards, but many of those hung around with plenty of time for people to see the offers and redeem them.

For me Lego simply need to make enough product to give everyone a fair crack, or don't bother. Any other system builds resentment and inequality within the Lego community.

Mail-in. This would make it much harder on scalpers and resellers. You would have to send in the bar code off the box, as well as the original receipt (or invoice if bought online) to get it.

Mattel does this all the time with certain Hot Wheels and Matchbox exclusives, where you have to mail in so many cardbacks and the receipt to get an exclusive car. There's a quite awesome looking HW Ford Raptor I'm getting ready to do this for, once my Dollar General (who the mail-in is exclusive to) gets the shipper that has the specific case codes that I need to be eligible.

Considering this was meant to coincide with the Discovery set launch it should have been limited to the customers who bought that set only. I hate exclusives but if you're going to do GWP like this you have to manage the line somehow.

I didn't mind the limited quantity aspect although I do agree there should be preorders or something similar. What annoyed me was that it hit 9 am and the website didn't work. I've had other limited time releases on other websites that crashed the site and they ended up bumping up their server to handle the load in the future. Lego is a multi-million dollar company so they should easily be able to update their server to handle the load that was on there at 9 am.

I did end up eventually getting the code for the probe but still a frustrating process.

Lego make an outstanding product but on so many occasions their distribution approach looks completely amateur, and lessons from previous experiences don’t seem to be learnt.

On top of that they must have one of the worst websites I have interacted with, and it has been like that for a long time. It’s really baffling given the size of the company.

Gift with purchase makes the most sense, but requires them to plan ahead and allot a good amount of stock. Otherwise, it's going to sell out like many popular sets already do on day one.

Pre-order or crowdfunding are great options. Some collectibles companies, including popular NECA, has taken to offering open preorders for a two week period. What is ordered in that period is manufactured, and that's it. You're producing what is demanded, no more, no less. Same principle applies to calling it crowdfunding, just slight nuances.

A lottery is not going to help. The system we have now is a defacto lottery, favoring those lucky to get in and get the item. A lottery may give everyone a "chance" to win, but you still have the same number of lucky and unlucky people that you're currently seeing. It might make people feel a little better about it, but for all intents and purposes it doesn't actually change anything.

I think one valid option would be just tossing the Ulysses into random orders of the Shuttle. Don't publicize it or promise anything, just add them to random orders. Those who get them have a pleasant surprise, and those who don't get them don't have any reason to be upset. They received what they ordered

@jdm said:
"my question is this- is Lego looking at the possibility of ceasing to give away GWP, and instead replace with VIP point contributions ? Thus inciting the customer to buy more (at full price) direct from lego, to gain the point in the first place. "

As I said on a previous post: This year alone we had 40448 in January, 40417 in February, 40449 and 40450 in March, and an albeit limited supply of 5006655 with the Porsche release. That's not including polybags or store-only gwps.

Simply put, no I don't think this is the beginning of any end. But if it was, I don't think that would be unreasonable. Currently Lego offers free stuff and bonuses on top of your purchase about x10 more than any other company I'm aware of, and that's probably lowballing it. If they were to shift 10/20/50% of those to slightly-more-effort VIP rewards then it takes away the ability for scalpers to make 10 orders and take 10 gwps, and would also serve to quiet the people who complain that the VIP rewards aren't good enough (Let's be real, most people just want to complain so it wouldn't actually quiet them at all).

Outside of "I want more free stuff," I don't see a good argument against shifting some of the GWPs to VIP rewards

I think the Ulysses set should have been limited in availability (at least initially) to those VIPs who had already purchased the Shuttle set or those who purchased the shuttle in the same order. TLG probably could not have set the website up to do it that way, but it still would have been the fairest way to link the two sets. The big problem with this release was the delay between putting the Shuttle on sale and making the Ulysses set available; if the Ulysses set had been available from the start, linking it to the purchase of the Shuttle would have been much easier, surely. If TLG couldn't find a way to achieve this, then the Ulysses should, at least at first, been a GWP with the Shuttle set (as had been done with the Colusseum set and the chariot GWP). If supplies of Ulysses had lasted for more than a week under that limitation, then the remainder could have been made available to all VIPs as a gesture towards those fans of NASA sets who weren't able to afford the Shuttle but still would have enjoyed the smaller set. Actually, I think that procedure is the best for any of these linked big-set/little-set combinations; there are always some who would like the little one *because* they couldn't get the big one, and of course many who want to have the pair.

In any case, TLG should *not* have done the same procedure for the Ulysses set as they did for the various coins, which were intended (I assume) for a different kind of Lego collector.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here but who says it did not proceed as planned ? Did Lego release a statement saying something went wrong ? Or is it us fans raising our concerns and airing our frustration at how it went?
I'm not going to lie I wasn't interested in the probe and didn't quite follow but boy I couldn't miss it since it's launch with several articles about the launch here and I assume it's quite the same on other main Lego fans sites. Talk about a great launch, everyone is talking about it!
How many of us (yeah I'm not in this one but I'm a fan too so I'm in it with you) who claim it's the last time they'll ever buy/participate will keep going cos we're fans and love Legos? Most of us yeah, which confirms Lego is quite on the right track.
Can they do better? For sure ! Should they do better? Well from our point of view obviously but from a basic emotionless accountabity point of view I'm not sure. They don't owe us anything, they're only dependent on our consumption to stay alive as a company. If their strategy don't work on the long term they'll either die or switch gear at some point but i doubt how the VIP works right now is the tilting point. I mean they changed the system not so long ago and I doubt it was to please the customers more rather than either make more profit or cut costs (which brings the former)

The problem is simple to solve: don’t produce beforehand.
Let people opt in for the gift within a time slot like two weeks. After those two weeks you produce and send out the items. Shipping cost for those who want it without anything. Free shipping if combined with an order above X.
It’s simple as that. Everyone happy and tlg can prodice the exact quantity needed.

@marengho said:
"set up a timeframe where you can preorder the set with limited numbers of course, may 1 or 2. Then it will be produced with some reserve and after some time (two, three months) the customer will get his preordered set. No rush in in the first 20 minutes, everybody who preordered will be served and some left for people not deciding immediately."

I had a similar idea.
A made to order model. A limited time to secure the set. (maybe 24 or 48 hours, staggered over the planet)
Then the set could be produced in the desired amount, possibly with some extras. After the sets have been produced, people that have ordered one are given a code to redeem it with their next order.

I really don't want a lottery system. For many reasons: gambling, no guarantee of getting it if you *really* want a specific one, and so on.

But if they insist on producing a small number of a set, a lottery system where you only pay in points if you win, or are refunded if you don't would be just about acceptable to me.

If they really genuinely believe they can't gauge interest of a set that they don't want to sell through normal channels, then I think a crowdfunding/preorder system would work well.

But as others haven pointed out, the lag between closing the crowdfunder and the set being available would present a problem for LEGO and possibly for many fans.

However they handle it, I want them to move away from the mode where you have to camp on their diabolical website at midnight, or 9am, or whenever, and hope it doesn't crash. And that means pre-orders of some description.

For me, there should be the following;

If connected to a product launch (which this clearly was) - it should be a GWP either open or linked to VIP early access or buying product unlocks it in VIP - i.e. Vidyo launch proved it's possible to get a code to enter into VIP to unlock something.

If not connected to a product launch - it should be first come first served but with reasonable availability and with stable IT. I don't mind it this is a random pop-up or a timed/known release as long as IT can support it with a robust experience. Win some lose some.

If part of a series, there should be a way on getting the first item to secure a slot on the remaining items or not i.e. when get one print you can select this one or reserve all. i.e. why get a coin case with first coin and may not get any more coins... it's just wasteful - there will be people out there with a case and only one coin.. likewise... Fiat prints are a good example: I like them but I wouldn't get any of them as knowing my luck i'd get the first couple only to find the rest sold out - this is enough of a disincentive for me to even bother getting one.

I've got to say, I really don't think crowdfunding is a viable option. Just so we're all on the same page, the Bricklink designer program and Forma were the first times Lego has done that, right? Both of those almost three years ago, with prices very high compared to traditional sets, and both waves of the BDP have pretty high bars for production.

In terms of low-quantity exclusives, no one should have a problem with that. You are an adult. You should have already come to terms with the fact that you will not have every toy that you want to have. There is no way around that, and a lot of people seem to be missing that.

But, having the current system where no one actually has a fair shot also will not work. If you're going to do a low-quantity exclusive then you need to have a computer system that won't wet the bed when you get a totally expectable amount of demand.

The suggestion of "Just take orders and produce the exact amount that everyone wants" firstly is nowhere near that simple, and secondly *completely* removes any exclusivity or VIP-ness.

There are thousands of sets that Lego produces in quantities so vast that no one ever goes without. Maybe you have to wait for a restock. Can anyone name a single regular-production set that people haven't been able to find before Lego retired it? And if their regular-production sets are so incredibly attainable, then I see no valid reason to not have 20 sets per year that *aren't* so incredibly attainable. As long as their servers can handle the demand

One option not yet mentioned would be allowing back-orders on release day. For 24 hours from release, accept all orders coming in. If the orders exceed the original production run, give the customer the option to back-order the item. At the end of release day, count up the confirmed back-orders and produce another run of the item. Of course it may take a few weeks (months?) to make that second batch, but if the production line is already set up it really should not take very long. This way everyone who wants to buy on day one gets to buy the set. People who just can't wait can still buy from resellers, but I think this would reduce the impact of resellers significantly, since everybody who wants to buy the item could either get the item on the first run or the back-order run.

This could be applied to all items, not just to VIP promotions.

1) give it randomly during the day.
2) place an order and you'll get a vip code for eg 1 month later so they can produce enough sets.
3) avoid any sort of scalpers

I've had this conversation with a few AFOLs over last while. I think perhaps they do need to increase the amount produced, not an extreme amount. Maybe 10K is a good bench mark, it is supposed to be an "exclusive" item. A lot of people have mentioned making it a pre-order, that is a great idea! Lets go a step further;
Hypothetical situation: new GWP is a pre order, only 10K being produced, so, only the first 10K people will be able to redeem a code. But its a pre-order so LEGO has time to produce them, but when they ship they get a unique serial number with your name (or account name, with a 24hr cooldown if you wish to change it) on it. This could have an effect on a few things. People scrambling to get one or more to sell might be deterred because they have to either sell it with their name on it or without the valuable serial number, which in return may reduce the speed in which it sells out. People who are redeem for their own personal collection wont be flooding the site panicking trying to beat others. The exclusivity of the set would also have a higher level of grandeur, as the item is personalized.

I am quite interested to see what LEGO does to respond to this, I don't think the CEO woke up expected to get his email flooded. While I'm not against resellers, 20 EBAY listing were up before it was even available in my region and by the end of the night one Bricklink seller has 3 listed for sale. That shows there is an issue to be addressed.

I think Ulysses should have been made available only with the purchase of the Shuttle, they should have delayed the launch of the Shuttle and made it available together I think that is what made sense in this case, in the future, pre-reservations could be a solution
But I still think that for Lego these hustle and bustle interests them.

Part of the problem is that these are supposed to be 'gifts', not an essential part of the product you're buying, which means that Lego probably wants to limit the number they have to make to limit their own expenses. To expand the number they produce, they'd probably also have to hike the prices of the set with which they're supposed to be given away to offset the production costs.

I would sell these as add-ons when you purchase the main set so that they can afford to make enough to meet demand. I'd probably also return the VIP scheme to just being a money-off reward scheme, or downgrading the GWPs to smaller sets again. Presumably this mess is a result of when they consulted AFOLs on what they'd like from the VIP scheme and then discovered those desires were more extravagant than they could accomodate in large numbers and at high quality!

A simple limited time period pre-order system would put an end to this on all these exclusives and pretty much kill the scalpers too
It would give them the numbers they need to produce and allow the fans and collectors a real time chance to get it.

Timed limited releases are always going to cause issues! 9am GMT? Like many others I work , and my job does not allow on-line and social media connectivity outside of work
You're always going to upset someone as the time isnt good for them - the tech often cant handle it, and the only people it seems to benefit is the scalpers (just look at the prices of any of these VERY limited releases)

Lego could easily extend loyalty and reward fans buying from them direct (Online or instore) where they gain the highest profit (compared to wholsale pricing)

If they want to increase collector frenzy - simply release variants via other stores/chains - for the shuttle that could have been numerous payloads or even Shuttle Names

I am extremely disappointed with this release as Lego/NASA is pretty much all I collect/build as it combines two loves. I was checking the site regularly for news on the release, I never got any notifications about it, (even though I'm supposedly on their mailing lists) and tbh at 9am yesterday I had to be out working as part of the Covid Field Team - which was a little more important than a lego probe
So to find out it was ONLY available for 30 mins and is now only available at a ridiculous price on ebay is extremely disappointing. As a collector/builder I dont buy to resell
You'd only get my Curiosity Rover out of my cold dead hands

They know all too well how popular the NASA products are - the Saturn V and Lunar Lander are prime examples - and the figures for any of the top Creator items must show there is a big thirst for this end of the market.

@CapnRex101 said:
" @lee_fett1980 said:
"I can't believe how many articles are appearing on here about this now. It's starting to feel like Brickset is inciting the mob a little bit.

There was a really low level of supply compared to a really high demand. Whatever system they chose was going to lead to complaints and disappointment. In a perfect world they should have gone out as a free gift with the shuttles (but even then there wouldn't have been enough and people would still have complained). However, it sounds as if they weren't ready.

The website issues were frustrating. But no company is going to invest a huge amount to increase their digital infrastructure for events that are only likely to come up 6 or 7 times a year. I think the website did half of what it was supposed to, but perhaps didn't display the errors correctly. The system needed to be able to limit how many could get on so that you didn't end up with too many people ordering an item that wasn't available. But then Lego should have something like a queue system, like other sites do. Although there's still problems here because people just log onto the site 2 hours early so that they have their place in the queue.

The real solution is people need to realise that you can't have everything in life. The majority of people here are AFOLs as well, yet it feels like we're trying to teach 5 year olds some basic life lessons.

Some of the anger and insults being thrown around because people missed out has been so disheartening. For whatever reasaon there aren't enough of the Ulysses to go round, so some people miss out. It's disappointing but it isn't the end of the world. Now let's all get on with living our lives."

Four articles have been published on this subject during the last three days, first confirming its availability, then giving a quick reaction to the issues before later clarifying the situation, publicising LEGO's statement and suggesting how fans can make their displeasure known. This article discusses potential solutions and will hopefully provide helpful advice to LEGO.

With regard to 'inciting the mob', we did encourage people to contact customer service or even those in upper management because these problems have been repeated. Previous occurrences of the same problems have received similar reactions from fans but no activity from LEGO. I think a more direct course of action therefore seems logical and might achieve results.

Hopefully everyone recognises that these issues are unimportant in the grand scheme of things. However, this website is about LEGO and LEGO fans are extremely passionate so I think the strong response is understandable, especially because issues with LEGO.com and the VIP program have been so frequent, without action from LEGO."

4 in 3 days....or 3 in the space of about 28 hours, which to me is riling people up. Particularly when one of the three was a confessed rant and another was directing people to complain to Lego, including hints to go straight to the CEO. And let's not forget the dig in the product description notes that's now appeared here on Brickset.

The easiest thing? Lego, please don't produce any of these sorts of sets, free gifts or any extras at all. We've shown that as a community we can't cope with the disappointment if we miss out. So protect us from ourselves and stop it all, thanks.

My best advice to Lego is to open positions for marketing proffesionals with a proven track record in "luxury line". They are already great in mass retail for standard sets, but when coming to exclusives they simply have no idea on how to handle them.

As mentioned, this situation has been succesfully solved in other sectors as concert tickets and fashion exclusives so they just need the proper people who understand those solutions.

I respect all ideas offered here, but I primaly trust in subject matter experts with a career on their field to provide advice.

If it is such an issue to produce the set then they should have 2 options to get this. One pay way less VIP points and have the Display Sticker and Instructions added to your order. Looks like it is made with pretty normal parts so I am sure we the community could do the rest via bricklink. Might take some of the weight off the second option, the set being order at higher VIP points. Printing stickers and instructions would be a lot easier in bulk and give collectors there display.

Would make it available to those countries whose LEGO stores are open, eg: USA.
The countries that have LEGO stores closed, I would make it available online with a pre-sale code. EG: Customer receives email informing them of an upcoming GWP, but they have to click the link to confirm access for a pre-sale code. This code is emailed to the customer 30 mins before the set goes on sale. Unique ID code to gain entry.
Once in, they input the code, which automatically adds the GWP to the basket. The customer can then browse the website and choose their sets.
Customer goes to checkout, and everything is there already, and pay.

Lego should rethink what it means to be a VIP. It is basically meaningless to equate it to being a VIP. If it is a place where all VIPs can get exclusives, we all should be able to get them if we want. I’m ok with limited time items, perhaps only sold when an item is first available. But I really don’t like the model where we need to be online at 6am relying on luck to get some trivial item that should simply be easier to get.

@shaase:
VIP accounts are limited to one per person, not one per household (can you imagine the divorce fight over points if two AFOLs were forced to merge accounts when they got married?). They could also be from three different households. My parents live pretty close, plus I’ve got an aunt/uncle, a cousin, and some other more distant relatives living in the metro area. I could conceivably set up as many as a dozen accounts, using relatives’ names and addresses. I couldn’t afford to feed them all full of enough points to make it any more effective for scalping these items than just grabbing one of each (and I’ve just been collecting these things with no intention of flipping any of them), but I can see how this would be possible for some people.

I think for the space probe, it should have been available if you bought the new shuttle, and everyone that did this would be put into a draw for a coin.

In future, everything that is Vip related should be associated with a model over £150 that you have to buy to get the related item, and anyone that buys it, should be put into a draw to get a coin.

The fan base is passionate. If we keep complaining about a system where you get free or bonus stuff then it will be removed. It’s what happens with childish behaviour. Ask any parent!
LEGO will have no interest in maintaining something that gets this kind of reaction from loyal fans. They’ll just removed it to keep the peace. That’ll make some happy because they live by the ‘if I can’t then no one can’ philosophy.
The issue is not the system, it’s FOMO from fans and spite directed at flippers.
Lego helped everyone out this time by announcing the time, they just need a more robust platform to deal with the demand.
I personally missed out but I like the VIP reward system/process. It prevents the multiple claims by single accounts and supports the limited release without LEGO wasting production of more plastic based on predictions of demand.
We don’t have to HAVE everything and we can be happy that others HAVE things than we don’t.

Maybe just make more of them, or give buyers an IOU if they’re out of stock.

Maybe a little certificate or something saying “We’re out of X, but more are on the way!”. That way LEGO can take their time with production while still keeping promotional promises.

I like the crowd-sourcing/pre-ordering option. Even if we have to wait a while to get the item, go through a process to poll the actual demand for the product and then provide to everyone that registered.

I can't see any single solution to this problem. Any highly limited production run with a specific launch time is going to require IT to support a rush of orders, regardless of ordering or payment method. It's not just Lego that suffers this problem. If there is no specific launch time but it's done, say, on a mailshot then those who read the notice get it first (as happened with the Ideas crowdfunded book). The IT solution needs both capacity and security against bots & excess orders - neither of which Lego.com seems robust against.
If Lego want to stand by their statement that they want as many fans as possible to have these rewards, they need to make more (that's the definition of "as many as possible").

However, if they want to go down the very limited edition extra linked to a specific set (like Ulysses is to the Space Shuttle) then I would favour a "golden ticket" approach. Put redemption tokens in random boxes. They could be in specific batches only available through Lego.com and/or brand stores. But that doesn't support rewards for VIP members.

The current VIP lottery system for certain rewards isn't worth entering: the value/cost ratio is far lower than the actual odds of winning.

To think that any form of the current model (very limited edition, specific launch date, flaky IT) is wishful thinking. To match the objectives stated for VIP rewards of this nature, they're just going to have to produce more. To have a specific launch date/time they're going to need much more robust IT.

Lego won't listen/don't care. They are generally meticulous on what, how and when they will release stuff.
Plenty of well paid analysts on board.
This makes me think there is a reason behind the continued shortages of popular items. They are willing to gamble on a few disgruntled addicts to maintain profits.
Now they have Bricklink they take a cut when folk order the parts to make items they can't get.
The cut can be much more than the outlay Lego made to print the parts and when it is a unique part to the set............boom !
The problem is easily solvable. 1 per registered address( not account ).
make plenty for all.
Reabsorb parts from unsold sets if need be ( Like the original Vegas).
They won't do it though.

If anyone from the Lego Group actually reviews these suggestions, I think there are only two likely outcomes:

1) Nothing changes
2) We get changes no one asked for, like VIP becoming a paid subscription to "exclusive" sets of unknown number and quality.

None of this makes sense. Fans need to decide if LEGO factories should produce more of their core sets to surpass the demand. Or everyone gets a promotional set but good luck finding sets to redeem the code with. And no there's no balance as that is what caused this in the first place. Make up your bloody minds!

lottery makes sense. Sneaker companies do it all the time with their high heat launch products. Nike even has secondary draws and rewards for frequent entrants who never seem to win.

The LEGO website is typically up to the task. I think it's fairly simple to have VIP's pre-order within a certain timeframe.

This should've just been "available with purchases of the Nasa Discovery until they're all sold out" and nothing would be wrong

I favour a lottery / raffle system. At least in this case where the item isn't available on release.
Link this with a code printed in manual or on a special brick, then cost of points or cash, which is refunded if you don't get lucky. This would also mean you don't have to be online atb9am to get the prize, just register within a time frame. Would add, should be allocations per country/region.

If the item is available at the release of main product, gwp is probably best, but perhaps the online store could have an option to decline the item, or have an alternative. Eg model or 100 to 200 extra vip points if purchase within certain time frame, so even if gift runs out people could buy the main product and get 100 bonus vip points if bought on release day or day after (maybe up to 7 days after?).

Great ideas

I am happy with LEGO tying items like this to the purchase of a set like the new Shuttle...and when they run out, they run out. Having a crappy website and everyone thinking they deserve to get one is also a problem. I admit I was able to get one, only because the stars aligned and the server I was connected to just happen to have a slightly better connection to LEGO's system. Typically, I lose at these sorts of things. Tie some of these GWPs to a big product and let it be first come, first serve. There will still be some people upset, but I think it's fair.

I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to respond and to contact LEGO’s customer support. This is a problem that can be resolved any number of ways. Apparently it just takes some really squeaky wheels to get them to make adjustments.

I’m simply not crazy about the VIP reward system as it is. I prefer that the exclusive sets and trinkets remain GWP. I don’t like this game of being wary of using my points in case some exclusive reward like this comes along right after I’ve cashed out (not that it was the problem in this case). GWP and reward points for discounts are just about the only incentives to keep shopping LEGO’s retail sites. They can keep throwing points at the problem, but that doesn’t resolve much when people aren’t satisfied with their value.

Crowdfunding is probably not a practical solution. The thing is, if it’s mass produced and everyone could easily get one, there wouldn’t be this kind of demand. They may as well implement crowdfunding got every set they make. Their timelines and business models don’t really allow for that.

Lottery sucks. Fans still miss out, scalpers still scalp, not as infuriating as expecting to get something and then not, but it’s not a good system for VIP rewards and we shouldn’t have to use our points for something we probably won’t get.

Only solution I can think of is to stick with GWP when it’s such a limited production. It was a system that wasn’t really broke, so I’m not sure why they felt the need to fix it. Really high spending value or expensive set to qualify and you eliminate a ton of bots and whining. Don’t do printed codes with the sets (as was suggested) that just perpétuâtes disappointment when someone buys a set 6 months later and the promo is loooong gone.

Fix the server issues. Make the time available to purchase/redeem the same for every time zone. Adjust the algorithms to make sure there’s enough to go around so some countries aren’t so disproportionately supplied over others. Make sure retail stores have a supply.

Bottom line, if they can’t produce enough to make a GWP/exclusive available to VIPs day 1, it’s probably not worth doing.

@CCC:
Replacing a flawed system with another, even more flawed system does not in any way fix the system. A lottery favors the scalpers more than the collectors. For the coins, it would be saying that they wanted to make sure that _NOBODY_ could land a full set. A collector who wanted the set would be pretty much guaranteed they’d have to drop a bankroll to fill in any holes. A scalper would be guaranteed a seller’s market. There wasn’t really a problem with the first two coins. In the US, they were each up for a few days before they sold out. If you missed them, you either heard about them too late, or didn’t have enough points saved up. And if you missed them, $20 on eBay was enough to secure one. Only once people realized that there was money to be had did they flood the Rewards Center.

The first thing that was actually unfair was staggering the releases in Europe such that some nations had almost no chance at the dwindling stock, and others didn’t get allowed in until the dust had already settled. That was a bad move for the coins, and again benefitted the scalpers the most.

I would actually favor a split VIP system before a lottery. Make everyone choose whether they want a rebates-only or a souvenirs-only VIP account. People like me who opt for the latter would be unable to spend points on rebates. People who only cared about getting cash off purchases would be locked out of these physical rewards. However, the only truly fair way to handle this is to make sure there’s enough supply to meet demand. It kills the scalper market, and doesn’t drive away customers who actually want to collect these things.

Then, this set should probably have been a GWP tied specifically to the Discovery set. Buy the set, get the bonus item. But make sure you have enough GWPs to last at least as long as the initial supply of the qualifying set. Don’t ship 100k Discovery sets and only 5000 GWPs to go with them (also, don’t ship enough GWPs to last half a year based on how often you plan to restock the qualifying set).

Here's a crazy idea: if you don't have the capacity to produce the needed quantity, then don't. Don't make it at all. Better your customers never know what they missed than to upset a bunch of them while feeding the ebay scalpers.

EDIT: which I guess isn't so crazy since the person right above me suggested exactly that, ha!

Personally, I would have either put the promotion up six months earlier than the shuttle was released, made the trade in for less points than it was (maybe half) to access an exclusive code that could be redeemed when the shuttle was purchased or put a code in with the shuttle to be redeemed when the shuttle was opened.
I would have preferred the former as it would have given TLG a pre order book of how many to do a run of.

@Brick_Belt said:
"Sure there would be a much greater lag time between being shown and being released, but that's about the only downside."

This I think is the flaw with the pre-order suggestion that a lot of people make. LEGO likes to release sets not long after they've been announced - within a few weeks, normally - and the GWPs, or in this case VIP rewards, usually tie into that. But even little sets like that take months to produce, so a pre-order system wouldn't really work with sets that tie in to big releases. The solution there would be to make sets as VIP rewards, but don't attach them to a big set release, allowing a pre-order system to be set up. I'd envisage something similar to the coveted LEGO Guided Tour (is that what they're called?) sets. It might make it more difficult to bring licenses in that way, but for VIPs, that shouldn't make too much of a difference.

With the Ulysses, I think they should've offered it to VIPs who had bought the shuttle first, since I believe it was intended to release alongside it. Then offer it as a VIP GWP with the shuttle for another week or so, and then if there's still stock left, stick them on the VIP rewards page. Sure, it makes the release arguably more exclusive (especially there's no leftover stock for us non-shuttle purchasing plebs), but the probe was clearly aimed at the kind of people who were buying the shuttle anyway. It would take scalpers - of which there seem to be a not insignificant amount - out of the equation for a bit, at least, and would really put the Important into VIP.

@polyester333 said:
"Crowdfunding is probably not a practical solution. The thing is, if it’s mass produced and everyone could easily get one, there wouldn’t be this kind of demand. They may as well implement crowdfunding got every set they make. Their timelines and business models don’t really allow for that."

This 100%

Why don't they do what they have started to do with Star wars like the Vader helmet and do pre-orders..... Then they can gauge interest, arrange production.

As it was with VIP points was it really so hard for someone at LEGO to do a basic database query for ALL VIPs with at least 1800 VIP points to gauge maximum interest???

Give a pre-order notification of 30 days, and everyone who wants one books out the VIP points to the pre-order and waits. Use some common sense...

The crowdfunding way seems the best way really. The current system already feels like a lottery to me...

Register up front to get the set, Lego produces the necessary amount and its solved.

Similarly, it would be nice if Lego could setup a "last chance" to order a set once it goes out of stock. Maybe we could add it to a wishlist and Lego would produce them if there were enough people to justify the extra run... tired of missing out sets because they go out of stock and never comeback.

If these limited sets aren't supposed to be for everybody maybe they could change to a more fair system where people get selected at random in some sort of lottery after they've show interest in the set. You don't get selected, you get back your VIP points + perhaps a little extra for sportsman-like compensation?! I rather lose in a raffle than lose my set to a scalper or bots. Either that or make sure you have enough product.

Definitely not just as a GWP on release of a specific set - I rarely buy larger sets on day 1. Lottery isn't appealing either. Crowdfunding with points or pre-order seem like the best / fairest options.

I do like the idea's that are out there. My idea is kinda a combo of other idea's.

Do a PRE-ORDER with your VIP points and add a free shipping section to were you can use VIP for free shipping. Example: 1,800 points for a VIP product then like 600 for free shipping or just pay for the shipping.

This "MIGHT" help to make it more exclusive.

@Minifig290 said:
"Does anyone know how many of these were actually made?

I'm assuming its probably below 10k, possibly lower than 5k."

Over at German promobricks.de I read about 3000 copies, I can not confirm this nor say if this number is for Germany or worldwide?

I think that as consumers we should not be looking to choose an option that benefits Lego more than the consumer.
I think that people are optimistically imaging Crowdfunding as something that would just work.
In my experience many crowdfunding projects are hugely delayed, never reach the market, never reach the funding threshold, are not as described or take so long to go through development that by the time you can get it it isn't what was originally pitched and you have moved on and filled the void from another source or stopped caring. They also suffer from very limited availability, geographical restrictions & poorer quality than later production runs when the kinks are ironed out. Lego can afford GWP; it just got greedy and lazy this time.

Like some people already stated: give all VIP members a decent time window (2 weeks up to 1 month) to pre-order the promo set with their points. Limit production to that number of pre-orders, deliver the promo sets a few weeks (or months) after the window has closed to the VIP members and you’re all set and done.

Why not completely abandon the GWP rewards model? It's abundantly clear that it doesn't work and, more importantly, it's clear that LEGO don't actually *want* it to work. They thrive on the hype machine, guaranteeing a rush of sales on release as people scramble to get the GWP. And then there's the adage of "no such thing as bad publicity" as everybody then spends ages talking about the latest release!

But there's a simple solution. Do away with physical GWPs and instead reward VIPs with bonus points. For example, purchasing on Day 1 gets a 20% bonus, Day 2-7 gets 10%. Even that solution might be too much for LEGO's fragile IT systems so maybe avoid the Day 1 chaos by giving bonus points for the first 3 days.

Gotta do *something* though, because the current GWP and Day 1 setup is $&@!!!

Have fewer different GWP sets so that they can have greater numbers of each GWP set, thus ensuring that these problems don't happen again.

Just for these troubling times, until production can match demand.

Keep GWPs but exclusive sets like this Ulysses Probe should only be available to those that buy the associated retail set on day one. The VIP is then sent an email with a unique code that can be redeemed within the rewards centre FOC or by spending VIP points. Have a time limit of say a month and after that period any sets that are left can be made available to any VIP regardless of whether they bought the set (pretty much like yesterday. I think this would reduce traffic, reduce scalping and reward fans. It won’t stop the scalping but it should make it easier for the fans to get the stuff too. As for reducing traffic on day one purchases, I think LEGO should implement pre-orders. It would give them the data for how many potential gift sets they’d need rather than not having anywhere near enough

@sjr60 said:
"I'm quite happy for items with limited quantities to be available on a first come first served basis either as a VIP point purchase, or free with the first few purchases of a related set. All I wish is that they could have the IT infrastructure to deal smoothly with whatever method they chose.

I've got some of the limited edition GWPs/VIP purchases I've wanted. I've missed out on others. No big deal. I think we need to keep in mind that we're in a time when all production is limited (normal retail sets included), so saying, 'just produce more' isn't necessarily an option. Things are getting better, but it will take time."

Totally agree! Good luck to those who got it. The thing about rare, exclusive things is erm, they are RARE! Those that didn't get it should stop whingeing. It's a FREE gift! You haven't lost anything and you haven't missed out, and you have no right to be angry. LEGO don't have to give anything away or run a VIP program. Maybe the A needs to be removed from AFOL until some folk grow up.

Surely the easiest thing would be to enable preorders as LEGO seem to have started doing for some sets, I think preorders should be rolled out to all sets on all themes, why not?

I love the Lego space sets but I refuse to give into Lego's desire to dilute the value of the VIP points. The prints with the Winnie the Pooh Ideas sets is the same thing. This should have been a free extra with the purchase of the space shuttle.

I think that they need to create a store on BR (which is their own service now), in which you can buy a package of all of the unique bricks and/or stickers for these sets, or retired sets. You can then use your own bricks, or just order bricks, to build the special sets.

Those who get the set just to say that they own it could "fight" for it to win the set with the box and hard copy manual. Those who just want to the build itself, will have it. They can sell these packages for VIP points. I think it's win-win.

So, for this set the package will just include the sticker sheet and any brick that's just for this set.

While we're at it, it would be nice of them to do the same for all retiring sets.

The video game industry does this all the time, its simply a pre-order bonus. Set a cut-off date and they would have a near exact inventory count of what's required. The only real difference is the lead-in time for a physical product.

@SithLord196 said:
" @Bricks_In_Your_Pieces said:
"Now we have an ideas subject. Here are the ideas:

Lottery: sure, you want a lottery? Hopefully there is never a coin collection, because you will not win them all (or it is statistically improbable you would). And then the lottery losers who were first in line who ended up not winning - you take away any incentive to grind hard and put in the time to get an exclusive

...

TL;DR: Stop complaining, take the loss and remember "if everyone is special, then nobody is""

First off, you only registered your account yesterday. While I'm glad to see the owners of Brickset aren't generally heavy handed when it comes to moderation, your comments make it pretty clear your entire purpose on this site is to be a troll.

Second, you complaining about how a lottery is bad because no one may end up with the entire collection of, say a 5 coin set, completely defeats the purpose of your last line. So what if nobody gets a complete collection, after all, if everyone is special, nobody is, right?"

And you complaining that I showed the obvious pitfalls of a lottery shows that you are a "last in line" kind of person. Back in the day before reserved seating at movie theaters, you were the one that would show up on the open night of Star Wars at 7:55 for an 8:15 show and were baffled why so many people were in line. Then when you got in the theater you complained you ended up in front row. "Why can't everyone have a middle seat in a good row?". No matter that the people who had good seats put the effort in to get those seats. Nope, because the entitled want what they want when they want it regardless if they put in the same effort as others.

If by "trolling" you mean finally registering on this site to tell the entitled tantrum crowd to grow up and get over this set by providing very clear lines of reasoning why their tantrums are obviously about more than collecting....then fee-fi-fo-fum I smell the jealousy of the brickset mob.

And I guarantee you there have been some VIP members that have got all 4 coins so far and the holder case and are ready to go on or around May 1 to complete the set. They put the work in and they will get the reward.

But lets make sure we complain about a set you could actually brick build but that most are upset because they aren't getting that sweet eBay secondary market money - yet all while being on a site that talks about LEGO investing.

I’m confused.

We ALL talk about wanting someone RARE and UNIQUE and then when LEGO produces something in LIMITED quantities, we all get annoyed because we couldn’t get one... isn’t that the point of RARE and UNIQUE ?!

Honestly, the message is so mixed. So we want RARE and UNIQUE or not because I’m really not following anymore.

@Bricks_In_Your_Pieces, you sound like someone that has a less popular Lego website and are jealous of how popular Brickset is. Or you couldn’t get the promotion either and want others to be feel as bad as you do.

The problem is, you have absolute a-holes getting them just to sell, in the hope of making a quick profit.

Anyway, it should have been a free gift with EVERY purchase of the space shuttle but I’m used to brand Lego treating their loyal customers like mugs.

@monkeyby87

You nailed it. I am a secret agent sent by another website to spread LEGO propaganda and promote general discontent over LEGO products. Fun fact: yesterday was a fake sale and in a few months we are going to storm TLG's corporate office to stop them from stealing exclusive VIP sets from the entitled VIP's.

TL;DR: remember, "if everyone is special, then no one is". And you better watch out, I might be here to take your LEGO sets and take them back to some random other site.

They simply need to produce more. They have the data especially on the VIP level. I understand some new release waves flop from a miscalculation of demand, but I would expect they could predict demand a little better on specific VIP releases.

I'm against crowdfunding as that has encouraged a culture of companies making consumers do the R&D for them, in a way. There are other ways to listen to your customers.

The other suggestions are kind of in line with the "ticket/prize" mentality that the VIP program now has, where my points are 1) worth less than they used to be for discounts and 2) are encouraged to be used on a store full of unimpressive rewards.

In general, my experience with rewards programs with companies in any industry tends to go like this: the more complicated the redemption, the less I'm actually getting for my dollar. I checked my go-to rental car program to see how many rental days I might have earned back for an upcoming trip, and I could not make heads or tails of the redemption process. It's like, if I have 3000 golden points, HOW MANY DAYS can i rent a car? Why is this so difficult? That's what VIP feels like.

Keep it simple. Don't need to reinvent the wheel.
Just have had it as a GwP for the Shuttle. Simple.
If it runs out through the purchases so be it.
It'll help incentivize sales on the main model and keep your ViP points intact for another purchase.
Win, win for customer and Lego.
But with Lego and this new ViP system you'll notice they're trying their darnedest to get you to USE UP your ViP points so you WON'T save up a ton and get a big ticket item easily.

@Huw thanks for picking this up. I read some great ideas here and I am sure LEGO is reading this as well.

The problem largely concerns scalpers with the current system. Some individuals are more than capable of making bots to scoop up limited product, limited rewards, and flipping all of it for a profit. So long as the supply is limited, so too will this cycle continue.

Lego really needs to shift to a preorder, produce to demand system, with excess to stock shelves at physical locations. They also need to globalize heavily.

I don't know what the production time is on products, but even if it's 6 months it's still worth the wait to prevent this nonsense.

Preorder the set, get guaranteed a copy, get guaranteed a reward. Supplies being less limited severely discourages scalpers as the remaining demand will be significantly less, while investors still get to speculate long term.

As long as consumers have money/points and are willing to pay, Lego has no reason to deny them - if anything they're the ones financially losing out here, and the consumer ill will further indicates this. It is in their best interest to fix this sooner than later.

Remember, if a GWP sells for a premium on eBay, that money *isn't* going to Lego.

Anyhow while we're on the subject, can we get VIP points from Bricklink, pretty please :3
I'm feeling left out because Lego hasn't stocked any products I've wanted to buy over spending my budget on vintage parts for restoration projects.

@LondonLEGO123 said:
"I’m confused.

We ALL talk about wanting someone RARE and UNIQUE and then when LEGO produces something in LIMITED quantities, we all get annoyed because we couldn’t get one... isn’t that the point of RARE and UNIQUE ?!

Honestly, the message is so mixed. So we want RARE and UNIQUE or not because I’m really not following anymore. "

Other than Lego, who's goal is to make you hand out your money, no one said that.

As this was, obviously, an second payload for the shuttle, build to be able to fit the payload bay, it should be easy:
If/when you bought the Shuttle set, you get a redemption-code to go order the extra model in the VIP area.

1: People get the set.
2: LEGO could produce batch as demand comes in.

How hard can it be?

(For the coins: ramp up the numbers!)

What about the “Chariot” GWP? Why did Lego produce soooo many of them? 1st off, it is not a very nice looking set. 2nd, who came up with it’s design and why was it approved for production? With the awesome talent at Lego, that set should have had a much better design. I was really looking forward to getting this GWP when I ordered the Shuttle. Who makes the determination of what products get a larger production run?

There are so many convoluted solutions being offered for an already convoluted program.

Crowdfunding? Bad idea and goes against the ethics of supporting small businesses and indie artists through crowdfunding. Imagine if Apple or some other large company decided to start flooding crowdfunding streams.

Lottery? Equally bad idea due to the complete lopsidedness such a system would manifest as. Also, a lottery defeats the supposed “VIP” experience.

I could keep going, but here’s my very simple solution.

LEGO needs to take a step back and just do one thing well with their VIP program...Offer discounts with points through a transparent and consumer friendly process. They can’t even do that correctly right now. It’s a convoluted, high friction process just to redeem points compared to the old system.

At most, expand points to be used for contests like they already do.

The rest, in terms of VIP sets and what not, simply turn them all into corresponding GWPs. You can still make them exclusive limited sets with low quantity but at the very least make it meritocratic to first people in line at store or something.

There is one other suggestion which is create a Super VIP experience based on points threshold which correlates with money spent. For high rollers and whales, there should be specific exclusivity due to the mere fact that they usually spend anywhere between $2k-5k on the low end and $5K-10k+ on the higher spectrum. They should be rewarded correspondingly for basically giving the most money to LEGO.

LEGO calls it a “VIP” program but does anyone even feel it deserves the “VIP” moniker? I sure don’t think so right now the way it is. It’s a complete mess that needs to be simplified not made more convoluted with scheme upon scheme.

The only limitation to getting a promo should be knowing what range of days it will be available and making an order during that time. If LEGO isn't able to produce enough promos for that to be the case, they should not release the promo and just post the instructions.

The LEGO Company needs to bring back the Community Engagement Representatives who daily talked to and communicated with all fans of the LEGO brick. We see now what happens when the TLC gets rid of divisions that were making a difference and advising them about what they should do about certain promotions etc. I remember that division as being on top of all issues with the fans of LEGO.

Pre orders

Let people who are interested preorder one then
once you have a number make them to order with extras

Make being A VIP member not for anyone you fills in a form,make it for those of us who spend 1000s dollars on this site

@ggauge said:
"What about the “Chariot” GWP? Why did Lego produce soooo many of them? 1st off, it is not a very nice looking set. 2nd, who came up with it’s design and why was it approved for production? With the awesome talent at Lego, that set should have had a much better design. I was really looking forward to getting this GWP when I ordered the Shuttle. Who makes the determination of what products get a larger production run? "

If the events of the last year and a half hadn't taken place, I actually think the chariot would be gone by now. That said, it's attached to a specific high dollar set and that's why it's probably still around. I've contemplated ordering the Colosseum to get it actually, but I just don't have the money for it.

By comparison, this gift was available to anyone whether they bought 10283 or not as long as they had the points.

It's fairly clear that space sets are a big ticket item in Lego form. Classic Space is one of their most popular themes, and they had to rerelease the Saturn V Rocket. The Lunar Lander seems to be so popular that my local Target started stocking it in store despite never stocking sets like it before. To underestimate demand by this much for this set is kind of inexcusable at this point.

By comparison, the Amelia Earhart promo was available for quite a while as well. It amazes me they seem to have such a misunderstanding of their market, but with the amount of money they're making I guess that doesn't really matter.

I feel like this is a result of flippers and bot purchases. People say flippers can't use points, but they obviously have a ton of points from their previous bot purchases. They have multiple accounts and get around the need for different addresses in some way. It's obvious that it's happening because there are always a handful who post pictures with all 35 boxes of whatever instantly-sold-out hot item they're selling. The same thing is happening to PS5s, to video cards, to shoes, to Funko Pops, to literally any in-demand item that's available for purchase online. Until someone figures out a way to stop mass purchasing from bots, this will continue to happen. The problem there is that, with bots and fans combined, this result is always a positive for the companies involved, because they've just sold everything they made.

As mentioned in the original commentary, I think they should be crowdfunded. Or basically you reserve them ahead of time and they make them to order.

Honestly, given the known production issues I think either a pre-order (to give them time to produce the desired number of sets) or a lottery (to avoid the IT issues and at least be somewhat fair) would be the best solution. to offer it as a VIP set.

I think the better solution would have been just to bundle it as the GWP with Discovery. I bought the shuttle on release day but didn't get a Ulysses to pair up with it. It's not the end of the world... I know I'll be able to bricklink the pieces and build one that way eventually but why did I even bother to rush out and get the Discovery when I can't finish the scene?

"Of course, the most obvious solution would have been to produce more of the numerous VIP rewards which have proven overwhelmingly popular."

Replace "popular" with "exploitable"

The abundance of this set on the secondary market with scalper markup indicates that the biggest market for these recent promotions in the resale market, with their target audience being the collectors who don't care where they get it as long as the can have one.

Easy fix. It’s called pre-ordering. If lego knows how many people want it (how many are on the preorder list) they will have a much better idea of what to actually produce.
They had preorders on the newest star wars helmets, which still haven’t shipped out by the way.
lego will have less fear of over producing something they are not sure people would want.
Know how many want it before you produce it. Not exactly a tough nut to crack. It’s the only answer that will guarantee those who want it actually get it.
Do you hear me Lego? More money and less waste for you.
How much more money did Lego lose not having enough product?
I’ll let Lego have that one for free but don’t ask my to save them from their sad and way overpriced clothing line. $68 for a baby onesie? HAHA! I just hurt myself laughing at that price.

@yellost said:
"I think Doe's idea is the best.
They should set a time period during which you can redeem your VIP points for a specific exclusive and once that's closed they have the exact minimum number of sets they need to produce."

If LEGO did go this route in the future, as a collector I would hope they would allow more than one set per VIP account. I wouldn’t be taking away from anyone else obtaining the set, I’m using *my* VIP points to “buy” it, and it would allow me to build one set and add the sealed on to my collection.

@DougTemplar said:
"The simple fact is that LEGO has failed on numerious occasions to get GWP levels correct and now this Farce for the Ulysses Probe.

The issue often seems to be about people ordering the set new in box and then selling for a profit. And incredibly low production runs.

My solution - scrap the box. Make the GWP and similar just bags of parts, maybe an instruction book to go with - or have it online. Gather the parts from the Bricks and Pieces system and fire them on. No new shiny box to be sealled just parts that could come from anywhere, it's likely it would take the wind out of the sails of the scaplers, in theory you can have an unlimited run assuming the parts are easy to produce. So demand falls as you lose those trying to profit and supply increases as needed for those who actually want the GWP or similar for display."

Your description is not very different from the generic yellow box which some of these promo sets are now packaged in.

How should it have been distributed? It should’ve been a general release set. IMO they should do away with these promos and exclusives entirely, it’s very anti-consumer in my eyes.

For the record I managed to redeem a set, and it should be arriving tomorrow. So I’m lucky, but I’d still like to share my opinion here.

I don’t particularly have an issue with the way this was done. It is the marketing and the wording on the website that is the issue.

There is nothing different about getting this Lego set and getting tickets to a concert or sporting event. No one is ever able to get tickets to everything they want to see, and that is life. Had Lego simply advertised that this is very limited edition, only 1000 sets produced (or whatever it is), problem solved. If this is going to be the Super Bowl of Lego sets, then fine, just advertise it as such.

Now the website is flawed, they shouldn’t redirect to errors or maintenance pages, but simply say the site is busy and click this link to try again. That would have been very acceptable. I understand that they aren’t going to put the money in to build a virtual waiting room when a “busy signal” does the job.

Personally, I feel the VIP rewards are way underutilized as we have no idea what is going to be available. I never really cared much about them as I never had many, but last Black Friday changed my opinion on them. When they gave away The Beatles art set for a bargain, I really regretted only having half the VIP points needed to get it. Since I’ve actually been saving them up in hopes of similar opportunities this year. I understand the element of surprise is important, but given you can’t quickly obtain points, this does create a problem that is very different from a traditional flash sale that simply requires money.

Boy...this really stuck in the craw, eh.

First, do we even know how many were available?

While producing a bigger Number of Sets would have been the best solution there would have been to fair possibilities at this number of Sets:

1) As they had over ViP Points but with a ViP-Shop that keeps working correctly under load. The Time Was Known in Advance there where approx 15-20 Minutes you could order the Set. If all that made the effort to show up in this 15 Minutes would have gotten the set this would have been fair. The Problem is, that many who were there and ready did not get one b/c of the technical incompetence of the Lego ViP/Webshop Management

2) As a GWP with purchase of the Discovery (Also with a Shop that can handle the load)

I'm not a fan of Lotteries at all. Also if you combine them with releasing Vip-Points they are illegal in some countries (e.g. Germany)

The simplest thing to do is make the limited edition sets cost more points. Also, to help sets get to genuine fans of a particular subject, eligibility could be restricted to those who have already bought a number of qualifying sets on a same theme.

But in order to really answer the question, we'd need to better understand LEGO's intentions for the VIP scheme. What are the benefits to its bottom line? Given that ultimately it's about profit, perhaps an additional VIP scheme tier should be introduced as a subscription-based model, priced at something like £99 a year.

This would increase desirability of some higher value perks but reduce eligibility. It would provide capital to make higher numbers of limited edition sets available at less risk and less cost, and generate revenue to reduce overheads and enable investment in the reliability of the platform.

Ultimately a paid scheme would enable a better and more predictable membership experience to those who value it, whilst also offering the actual cachet of a superior VIP status, which is currently based entirely on mere conceit.

@bengal said:
"But ideally it should have just been available to any order of the Discovery set, simply. Nothing less."

As someone who just shelled out for the Discovery, totally agree. It makes sense, especially when taking into consideration the chariot set only available with the Coliseum purchase.

Call it crowdfunding or preordering, both would work for me in order to collect VIP points and NOT use them on price reduction vouchers.

On GWPs, Exclusives and Extras in general: I have been collecting LEGO before they started this artificial idea of producing special collector's items. LEGO has always been a collectible. There's no need for this. However it works, as this is the only reason for me to shop at lego.com and/or a LEGO store - besides the occasional PaB cup.

And please LEGO: do not call a set Limited Edition if it is not marked and numbered as the ones you produce for San Diego Comic Con. Just a print on the box with "Limited Edition" feels like a cheap marketing trick and does not go well with the company's motto IMHO.

@Huw this is the second time I write a longer comment and when posting it just disappeared. Luckily this time I copied it before posting.

Not just for this, but I don’t know why they don’t offer a pre order for new releases. They have it for some of the new Star Wars helmets but even so I bet it will still be out of stock. At least with pre order you can gauge the interest level and set production levels accordingly. A lot of gaming companies do this to gauge demand and you get it delivered on release day.

Sets like this should be readily available for scalpers. Once the promotion period has passed simply visit eBay and buy the set at your leisure from any of the hundreds of sets advertised. Really couldn’t be easier.

If the process was fair there would be no reason to complain. I understand that there was a limited number and it’s first come first served but when I’m locked out of my account due to an IT issue whilst the promotion starts and then it’s sold out before the IT issue is resolved then a complaint is warranted. Huw has every right to complain just as I have to LEGO customer services

They should give Ulysses with every copy of the Shuttle for Vips, for a limited time.

@anitrain:
The Discovery set represents mission STS-31, while the Ulysses was launched on mission STS-41 over five months later. The two do not combine to make _a_ scene. Ulysses can be subbed in for Hubble to recreate a totally different scene. The good news is that the main set, therefore, still works perfectly fine as a standalone set if you didn’t manage to snag one of these. It’s not like they made the Hogwarts Great Hall set an incredibly limited edition and then told everyone to enjoy building the entire castle.

I’m not saying this to claim that what happened is acceptable. I, too, wanted the Ulysses to pair with my Discovery (and have even started wondering how feasible it would be to MOC the other 37 Discovery payloads), and burned an entire vacation day because I anticipated things going FUBAR. I got lucky, but that doesn’t mean I’m laughing at those who didn’t. It just means that missing out on Ulysses doesn’t break the Discovery set. STS-31 is arguably the third most famous Shuttle mission, after only the losses of Challenger and Columbia, and certainly the most famous undertaken by the workhorse of the Shuttle orbiter fleet. They did a great job capturing that in a single set, and it might have just been better if they never designed Ulysses at all.

Still, only 2 weeks until the 5th coin is released......

Do you think there is any chance more will appear at some point?
Due to a couple of containers that might still be floating round the bottom of Africa somewhere
Be great if that was the case

As others have said, this should have been gift with purchase with the Discovery set from the beginning given the value. Just like with the UCS Batmobile which came with a GWP classic mini figure bat mobile. Better question to ask is why is Lego even doing or entertaining this type of business model? Some mentioned it is do to to supply chains and limited runs, but honestly this is a poor excuse because they have done nothing to adapt their releases as a result of COVID and production. In fact, it seems year over year, the number of diverse sets increases so time dedicated to producing a run is more limited. Honestly if LEGO is going pull this as their future business model I will shop at other stores. If the GWP program has now turned to this, then I will buy third party where I can usually get my discount of 20% or more immediately. The only reason I choose LEGO over third party is for the GWP or set is a LEGO exclusive; the GWP is usually 20% of the cost anyway. Paying full price with the hope of collecting VIP points to apply for a future purchase that appear to be more out of stock/backordered and playing the F5 Roulette game for a GWP is not worth it. LEGO has turned its business into what the housing industry is experiencing now: limited supply, overpaying, and cutthroat tactics amounting to disappointment. Count me out. If LEGO wants to take pre-orders, I would suggest this as an option.

I’d like to see a Dutch auction setup using VIP points. How many points is this exclusive worth to you?

@Achzubie1 said:
"I’d like to see a Dutch auction setup using VIP points. How many points is this exclusive worth to you?"

That's an inspired idea @Achzubie1.
Doesn't even need to be a Dutch auction. Could just be a bid in advance and the top X bids get the X sets. The the bidding could run over a fixed period (say several days), and the sets get allocated at the end of that period.

@DoonsterBuildsLego said:
" @Achzubie1 said:
"I’d like to see a Dutch auction setup using VIP points. How many points is this exclusive worth to you?"

That's an inspired idea @Achzubie1 .
Doesn't even need to be a Dutch auction. Could just be a bid in advance and the top X bids get the X sets. The the bidding could run over a fixed period (say several days), and the sets get allocated at the end of that period."

Ridiculous idea.
That’s effectively gambling. Outrageous! Worst idea of the lot
Cheaper to buy from a scalper by the time you’ve accrued enough points from all the purchases you’d potentially need to make to ensure you’ve outbid

How's it gambling?
I'm thinking of a single, blind bid system - you get to make one offer and can't see what others have bid. Points are only deducted if you're successful. If someone wants to bid ridiculous points to get it, fine. This method could be applied to all kinds of limited edition rewards, too.

@DoonsterBuildsLego said:
"How's it gambling?
I'm thinking of a single, blind bid system - you get to make one offer and can't see what others have bid. Points are only deducted if you're successful. If someone wants to bid ridiculous points to get it, fine. This method could be applied to all kinds of limited edition rewards, too."

Exactly this. You put the value on the item and proceed from there. You don’t lose points if it doesn’t meet threshold to purchase.

I wonder if there's a difference in how these are handled in the US vs Europe, or maybe different allocation amounts. I'm in the US and I was able to get one 20 minutes after they went up, and it sounds like they were gone almost instantly in Europe.

@CCC:
The primary change to the VIP program was to make all points equal. Previously, if you bought stuff in one country to collect points, and you redeemed those points in a different country, you could gain or lose value depending on how the currencies stacked up against each other. Spending £100 to get $5 off cheats the customer, while spending $100 to get £5 off cheats the company. But they may have been okay with that, since they let it slide for over a decade. When they introduced these physical rewards, there would be an uproar if they cost more points in one country than another, and there would be an uproar if they cost the same amount of points but some countries earned them faster. And there was an uproar anyways when people who don’t understand at all how the new system works noticed that it costs a lot more points to get rebate vouchers.

When I tried to get tickets for San Diego Comic Con a few years ago, they used a system where you entered a waiting room prior to the release of the tickets (say at 9am). At 9am the waiting room locked, and whoever was in there were randomly selected to get tickets. Sure, lots missed out, but how it worked was random, fair and well publicised. I think a system like this would work well for limited edition releases. The time is announced, you enter the wait room, and at the time determined you have as fair a chance as anyone at getting the set. Lego could even be open and honest about how limited a set it is. For all I know they only had 10 probes per country and it's all some huge marketing scam that should be reported to the advertising standards agency!

Why is this debate still raging? There are some properly convoluted 'solutions' being proposed. Stop letting the massive toy company with all the big machines off the hook for making things artificially scarce.

@MainBricker said:
"All Lego have got to do is produce more."

This. Just this. Nothing else.

Like many folks, I would like to own both 10283 and 6373604 . I did not purchase the Shuttle on Day One, however, because I already exceeded my "Day One Budget" for the first half of 2021 on sets like 80107 and 21325 . I was therefore pleased to secure a copy of the Ulysses on its launch day, using the copious VIP points that I have earned just this year, knowing that I can always buy the Shuttle before it retires in two years or more.

I can't see how it would be any more "fair" or "loyal" or "customer-friendly" to have restricted the Ulysses to a Day One GWP, thereby excluding folks like myself from obtaining it directly from LEGO. In fact, the previous "exclusive" GWP opportunities that have been linked to a specific purchase (cough) Yoda's lightsaber (cough) are the ones that frustrate me. I understand that other people were frustrated by this process, instead.

But in conclusion, you can't make everyone happy all the time, and LEGO seems to be a successful business, so I am pretty sure this went exactly as the company planned. Most of the suggestions above are reasonable and clever, but I doubt very much that LEGO sees any need to implement them in order to "fix" a "problem" that they may not perceive to have. We're all buying a ton of LEGO, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down (despite those Brickset members who threaten to quit the hobby every couple of months . . . and then don't).

@CCC said:
"I think you are missing the point of both the GWP and VIP rewards. These are not incentives to buy (more) LEGO. They are incentives to buy (more) LEGO directly from LEGO."

No. I get it. I just don't think it's a good idea. Very few manufacturers sell directly to the consumer. I find the idea that LEGO can't be profitable from a more traditional retail model laughable. I guess only LEGO knows the truth of how beneficial their VIP/GWP/exclusives/incentives program is to their bottom line but I wonder if it's worth putting your loyal customers through the ringer all the time? As you pointed out, they're not delivering on it.

I wasn't even interested in this promotion. I was only inspired to comment due to the difficulty I had with the Vintage Car GWP at New Years. The fact that I'm still annoyed enough three and a half months later to start commenting on a VIP promotion I didn't even want is testament to how frustrating and tedious I found the experience. And that was for a GWP that I actually managed to get eventually through my local LEGO store, albeit after a failed but expensive first attempt online.

Of course I understand that many customers won't buy directly from LEGO without incentives. I'm one of them. But ultimately I just don't think making products difficult and convoluted to procure for the purposes of increasing your profit margin is a very nice way to treat loyal customers. I'd rather just be able to buy the stuff I want, when I want. Given the choice to buy a VIP/GWP item as a regular product release or go through the rigmarole and annoyance that everyone here has experienced in the last few days to get it (or not) for free, I'd buy it every time.

@bananaworld said:
"
Why is this debate still raging? There are some properly convoluted 'solutions' being proposed. Stop letting the massive toy company with all the big machines off the hook for making things artificially scarce.

@MainBricker said:
"All Lego have got to do is produce more."

This. Just this. Nothing else.
"

I would also except the plan 'B' of LEGO releasing a parts list and instructions...

I have a hunch LEGO will again offer this set just to "calm the waters," but I doubt they'll actually fix the root problem.

I agree with others...the VIP Rewards system they have implemented is kind of worthless. The old system of getting points to use on future set purchases was much more straightforward.

@SilentBotts:
If it worked anything like how the coins worked, North America got at least one allocation (it seems to be treated as one pool for ordering purposes, even if it’s split between different warehouses), and Europe got multiple. Each country in Europe was assigned to one warehouse, and when that warehouse ran out, all the countries served by it got cut off even if other warehouses still had some left. In the US, I’ve had at least three different warehouses ship various orders to me, and one a few occasions I’ve even had one order get processed in two different warehouses.

@CCC:
No, I get that. For most of us who don’t travel constantly, the currency thing is unlikely to ever matter. Physical rewards obviously changed the game for everyone. But I have seen people claim to use the currency trick to get a modest boost. Honestly, for me it would be insanely expensive to even try, since I live a few hours away from the next closest domestic LEGO Store, never mind going international. But for someone commuting regularly between the UK and France, maybe they spent enough that it made a tangible difference.

On the corporate side, though, 5% is 5% is 5%. Nobody cared if 100 points was worth more in one country because it also cost more to earn them. Try making that system work with the Ulysses, or the coins, or the keychains. Would the UK be happy paying the same number of points as the US if $1 was still treated equally to £1 in terms of earning points? I guarantee the US would throw a fit if we had to spend more points for the same item just because our points cost less. This convoluted system makes each point worth the same as any other point, and it’s really the only way they could safely introduce anything besides rebates on purchases. It just also happened to shut down the currency trick.

@MainBricker:
The pandemic is still affecting supply across the board, though. A lot of food manufacturers have trimmed their selections to help streamline the process and allow them to keep up with demand for anything edible. You can still get enough to eat, but you don’t have as many options now. They haven’t scaled back their product range, so it makes it harder to produce the same quantity of product. They might also still be making face shields, working with smaller crews, and spending more time sterilizing surfaces.

This is actually simple: they offer back orders for many sets. Offer back orders for GWP/VIP rewards. Done.

@Strymon:
I ended up with four of the Vintage Car. I beat my way through the system problems for the midnight launch, and eventually ended up getting an order for the Bonsai through at 1:30am to get the first one. The next morning I called LEGO.com to let them know about the glitch where the Hogwarts Crest wasn’t triggering the Monster Book of Monsters (they were already aware), and mentioned that I’d actually wanted a MBoM, but the only set I would have ordered to get one (The Burrow) was sold out. They told me it had changed to backordered status. During this process, I had dropped the Hogwarts Castle in my cart just to verify that it triggered MBoM, and both that and Hogwarts Crest would trigger the Vintage Car. About an hour, hour and a half later, I got around to placing a back order for The Burrow. MBoM. No Vintage Car. While I was doing stuff that was not ordering The Burrow, it had sold out.

We had a display up at the Henry Ford Museum that ran from mod-November to mid-January, and I hadn’t made it over there to hang out with the layout since setup, so I went there right after. One of our other members was there and mentioned that he was going to place another order when he got home, to get another VC. I told him it had just sold out just a few hours earlier, so he looked it up in Bricklink. Someone had a few copies for a decent price, so he ordered four and we split the bill 50/50 for two each. That was my second and third, now.

February rolls around. I get notified that a package has just shipped, but I already got everything I was waiting on going back to Black Friday, so I was a little confused. When it arrives, I open it, and there’s Vintage Car 4. Somehow, even though it didn’t show in my cart, or the original e-mail showing what I’d ordered, it got tacked on at a later date, and shipped all by itself.

@CCC:
I know a guy who flies over for Brickworld every year, buys a ton of sets, shucks the boxes, and carries just the contents back as luggage, and he says he saves a ton of money on the whole ordeal. The currency trick may not have made a huge difference to his bottom line, but it all adds up. For him, earning points all year in Europe and spending them all over one weekend in Chicago was worth the trouble. But not anymore. Between that, the difference in MSRP/taxes, and the defunct 30% discount convention attendees used to get, that had to have made a huge dent in his airfare.

But anyways, someone mentioned that they’re concerned about the huge pile of points that everyone has been sitting on. I know I used to burn them as fast as I earned them until the new system kicked in. Now I barely spend them on rebates, so I built up a decent stack of points outside of picking up these VIP exclusives. I suspect you’re in the same boat. Other people have said they stopped cashing them in because they felt they were being “cheated”, even though they just don’t understand how the new points work. Still others haven’t been cashing in points because the system is no longer built to make it easy. In all three cases, the result is that the points are no longer being spent as fast as they used to be. It may be that they end up flooding the Reward Center with physical items to help cut down the pile of unspent points. Certainly the SDCC minifigs raffles have had to accomplish that to some degree (more than the coloring pages), since the equivalent cost is $5 for every 13 tickets, and presumably only one person walks away with anything to show for it.

@apcsb:
Either I did get one for the Vintage Car, or they were sitting on a reserve quantity in case of lost or damaged shipments, or there were enough orders that got cancelled that freed up Vintage Cars for the first few of us who placed orders that missed out.

@LegoMike said:
" @Achzubie1 said:
" @DoonsterBuildsLego said:
"How's it gambling?
I'm thinking of a single, blind bid system - you get to make one offer and can't see what others have bid. Points are only deducted if you're successful. If someone wants to bid ridiculous points to get it, fine. This method could be applied to all kinds of limited edition rewards, too."

Exactly this. You put the value on the item and proceed from there. You don’t lose points if it doesn’t meet threshold to purchase.
"

So the wealthy succeed. Just a really bad idea. Sorry guys"

But you realize that this is the way of the future. Sports teams are doing this with their tickets more so than ever. It’s no longer just assigning tiered pricing to more popular games, but actually adjusting pricing as tickets sell faster. The idea is to make the money that the scalpers are making. With concerts, many bands have taken a different approach with outrageously priced VIP tickets that include better seats and a t-shirt, and credit card entry for the cheaper seats.

I doubt however that Lego would do this as the whole point is to get more customers, and doing such a thing would mean that they would be alienating there less affluent customers and losing their business. I for one would stop buying from Lego if I knew I had no chance of ever getting one of these sets.

But I really think that Lego just needs to advertise these sets like you advertise tickets. Limited sets available and virtual waiting rooms (not error messages) to get them. That would solve all these problems.

Of course they could implement credit card entry, and have you swipe your card each time you want to connect two bricks. Arguably Lego loses money at every garage sale.

@alfred_the_buttler:
Sports and concerts are usually hosted at indoor or enclosed venues with limited seating that is legally enforceable. One radio station I’ve listened to used to do a summer concert series in an outdoor venue where they actually paid the band to appear, and attendance was free. I also had a coworker tell me that one of my favorite bands was doing a summer concert with another artist, where there was a strict limit on tickets for actual seats, but lawn seating was unlimited with a nominal fee at most.

The limits involved here are less strict, and mostly imposed by fiat. The way these specific sets are assembled, there’s a practical limit to how many they can make since they’re all fully assembled by hand, and use parts from the model shop, but if they chose to mass-produce this there’s really only one thing that could stop them. Well, two, if their licensing partners object. But the main one is production capacity. It’s still probably a bit tight, which means producing thousands of these might require reducing production in something else, or investing a hefty chunk of change in increasing their capacity, but it’s not like they have to move and construct a new stadium before the old one is even paid off.

For me there was two problem that day. The release time and that it was sold out when i finnaly gout around to try to get it. I also lost my chance on the only coin i wanted. The space one. But did not know it was out when i bougth the shuttle.
See that the shuttle was released at 01.00 1 april that is 02.00 Late night in Norway. The Odysse was 09.00 (10.00) on a workday. Normaly people go to at 08.00. Had no chance to connect at work.
I think the best solution had to bee that there is some kind of revard limit. As it has been on sets.
If you buy one Limited vip item ou should not get able to buy it again.

@mrfuture:
There is a limit on all physical rewards. Not only is each VIP account limited to one purchase of any physical item listed in the Rewards Center, but then you still have to place a regular order for each individual item you want shipped. If you don't redeem the code within 60 days, it expires, and presumably your reward is back up for grabs.

The problem here is that there was a very small supply produced, a ton of people who wanted to get a copy to go with their Discovery, and a ton of people who had just figured out that some of these physical rewards are worth a lot of money on the secondary market. Throw in some epic glitches on the site, and it was just a frustrating disaster all around. Even as someone who managed to get a code before they ran out, I had to use a vacation day just so I could be online at 9am, then the site crashed right when the Ulysses was supposed to start showing up on the rewards list, and it took 13 panicked minutes to actually get it the Rewards Center to load correctly again. Other people didn't figure out that the Maintenance page was a dead-end until they took it down and shunted everyone back to the main page. And I saw at least one person say that they showed up right at 9am to find it was Sold Out, only for everyone else to point out that they were actually an hour late because they got the time zone shift wrong.

If you missed the Classic Space coin, I don't know what happened there. It had been determined that the coins were launching right at midnight on the 1st of each month. We didn't have a release order, but best guess was that they'd do the four themed coins first and end with the LEGO logo, which is exactly how it has played out. Since the other three themed coins had already been released, there were just a ton of people itching to get a code for the Classic Space coin as soon as it went up. The Octan coin didn't last nearly as long as the previous two, so expectation was that there'd be fierce competition for the Space coin, being by far the most popular logo of the four themes. So, I'm guessing you read the first article announcing the full set of coins, and then basically skipped past anything that followed because it wasn't about the Space coin?

Preorder, one per VIP account. Order window open/closed within a specific time frame. As simple as that.