LEGO Masters: Interview with the second place team
Posted by MeganL,
In today's LEGO Masters article, we talk with the second place team. If you haven't watched the episode yet, by no means click the link as spoilers lie ahead. If you have watched the episode, read on to learn what inspired the second place team, what article made an appearance in several episodes (and why), and how it felt to come in as runner up.
Second place for the finale was the brothers team of Zack and Wayne.
I really enjoyed Zack and Wayne's builds. As I told them during the interview, their build from the first week (the dragons float) literally made my jaw drop. Their final build was similarly impressive and also featured dragons.
Were there particular details of your finale build that we didn't get to see on the show?
Zack: Well, I can explain a little bit of what the build was supposed to be. It was a whole lot of ideas just being smashed together. It's a pagoda with a waterfall scene in the back, and then you have these two dragons that are coming around. We had this whole idea of having fish coming up the waterfall. There’s this Asian myth: if a fish can jump over this waterfall, they become a dragon. That's supposed to represent that you've accomplished your journey. You’re a master and all that kind of stuff. Then in each level of the building, we were telling little small stories about our lives. I'm talking about my family. I have my sushi shop in there. We have my brother’s archery range in there. One of these days, I'm going to have to remake this build on my coffee table or something.
Along with Mark and Steven, you finished in the top two more than any other team, but only won twice. What was it like to be in the top two and consistently finish second?
Wayne: I have, obviously, a lot of feelings about it. Long story short, I can say without a doubt that whenever we put up anything, we always felt like we were trying to go for the number one build. Obviously there's other people saying things that they will say, but I can say that we had our pride, in that regard. If I had to be honest about this finale build, I can accept the fact that we weren't able to really accomplish all the things we wanted to do. Had it had been judged differently; I would have been okay with third place because the build that Caleb and Jacob made was really outstanding. I'm an archery coach and I always tell everyone I genuinely don't like second place because it means you're the first place loser. In the end, with those challenges, as long as we did something worth remembering, I hope people enjoyed it and really thought it was something amazing. For me, I always felt like, let's say the puppet, the pig, the whale...I know what we put out, and I know people are going to like it. We’ll just leave it at that. Now it's for the audience to decide which one they really like.
Zack: You win some, you lose some. Sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't. And I just said, “As long as we make it to the final we have an opportunity of winning this thing.” We got up to second place, and I'm trying to keep it in that level of positivity. Because you can get tunnel vision, trying to win the whole thing, but then you miss all the other objectives. You’ve got to put on a good show; you’ve got to show what you're all about. You’ve got to win the crowd, too.
Wayne: I felt like everything we built was pretty close to finale level grade, I mean, everyone keeps telling me they really liked the hat, until I said, “You know, that was actually a pretty good build.” At the time, I wasn't feeling so great because, on top of the fact that we had just lost the golden brick, I was also suffering from a little bit of a cold. My low energy was compounded. But it seems like everyone really liked the hat. So, you know, what can I say?
Wayne, you wore the Kelsey bracelet, which has made appearances through the season, during the finale. That belonged to the first team eliminated, Jack and Dawn, in tribute to their niece. Tell us a little bit about how that happened.
Wayne: Basically what happened was Jack and Dawn had been eliminated in the first one. And Jen, one of the other contestants, was able to get a chance to see Dawn on the way out. And they said, “Wouldn’t it be great if we took the Kelsey bracelet and passed it around?” That's just the big thing. This production schedule is quite tedious, and really heated things up to the point where it just made us closer together as a group. We really were sad to see anyone go. So that was our sign of solidarity, saying that no matter what, we're always going to be LEGO Masters. We're always going to be friends and family first. It's thicker than blood, the bond that we share. No one will ever really see all the things that we saw. But those who know, know that we're family first and foremost. I will happily say that, everyone here, I would fight tooth and nail on their behalf. No one can say anything bad about them and get away with it.
Zack: And I feel like this season, it (cancer) was always in the background. Because Kelsey, she passed away from cancer. And a lot of our friends were passing away from cancer just right at this one moment. And everybody knows somebody… Jack was a cancer survivor. Maria was a cancer survivor. Jen’s son was a cancer survivor. So it’s like, let's be good together. Let's be happy together. Let's bring some happiness into this world.
Where do you draw artistic inspiration for your builds?
Zack: There's definitely culture involved. Chinese and Asian mythology. Those are the stories that we can identify with, so we take a lot of interest in them. That's definitely one. Moby Dick is kind of what inspired the whale, right? It’s a bit of a stretch, but I used to do crew rowing. And so, when I was in crew rowing, I would ask myself, “Why is it that people row in a boat?” It actually stems all the way back to when people would be whaling. They’d be hunting whales and then dragging the whale back to shore. So, I can kind of identify with that. We have the Punisher build that's supposed to be like a lowrider. There's a lot of lowriders in Stockton (hometown). The hat was from archery.
Wayne: Robin Hood.
Zack: The alien was because we liked building spaceships when we were younger. Just all kinds of relatively fun ideas. Just remembering what we liked growing up and trying to put it into LEGO Masters. Even the flying pig, right? That was just one wacky idea.
Wayne: We were kind of going, ‘Willy Wonka meets Howl’s Moving Castle,’ so it’s like, “What is this absurd concoction?”
Zack: I think just the wings, though, were like ‘Howl’s Moving Castle.’ The pig idea is something you’d see in some kind of weird cartoon.
Wayne: Like a surreal movie.
Zack: We really drew on a breadth of ideas. But then I feel when we were really feeling a meaningful build it would definitely be in the Asian context.
Wayne: Yeah, I guess that's just one of the things where we had an advantage because just as much as we are Chinese, we’re just as much Americans, so we do value all those things. Long story short, we read a lot of books, and it seems like we watch a lot of movies, too. So anything that we liked, we tried to bring that into our builds.
Zack: For me, when it comes to the technical, I build a lot of tanks and military vehicles. And so whenever I can just say, “Oh, I've seen this kind of mechanism before,” then I'd like to try and incorporate it into our builds. So that’s another aspect, another dimension, that you can add.
Did you pick up anything during the competition that have influenced what you’ve built since you got back?
Wayne: So, the way we build on the show, is like you notice we kind of had a tendency to...
Zack: It’s almost like brainstorming. Just put down something. Whatever pops into your head, put it together. And try to put it in the right spot. We even have this thing we talked about when we were trying to prepare for getting into LEGO Masters: the Ugly Fish Principle. So, if you pull a fish out of water, it might seem a little bit ugly. But, if you put it in the right context it's well suited for its environment. So sometimes my brother puts together something that's kind of weird. But it's not that bad if you put it in the right spot. That's kind of what happens. You put this weird shape in somewhere and it’s like, “This looks like a rock,” You put another one, “It’s starting to look like a waterfall. What did you put into this waterfall scene? Maybe some trees, some birds…”
Wayne: As you can tell, he talks a lot.
Zack: But usually, it ends up being a dragon. Who doesn’t like dragons?
Wayne: So, with this last one, we already were aware that we build kind of fast. That seemed to be the overarching theme for Wayne and Zack, is that we build on the fast side. But it became one of those things where, after episode three, with the shake table challenge, we had actually spent half of the four hours just thinking about it. That was something that had to be compensated for. So, when you saw the builds go on there, down the line, this competition was like us running a marathon at a sprint's pace. You really had to fall back on things that you knew. You need strength, technique, and aesthetics. The way a lot of these challenges want to be, there was a lot of strength and technical involved.
Zack: So, the builds that have to do with technical and strength, those set minor challenge requirements. So I really got to explore more of the aesthetics. Being more creative with whatever parts we had at hand. Anything is a good idea. It's mind opening. And then you get to see everyone else's build and it’s like, “Oh, man, I’d love to get into castles.”
Wayne: It adds more dimensions. Something you previously didn't touch on before, you'd like to add that to your book, too, and see if I can put my own twist on it.
Out of all your builds throughout the season, which one was the most personal to you?
Zack: It would definitely have to be that final one. The one which is, I guess, our coolest build - just the general consensus - it’s been the whale. If not the whale, the flying pig. I want to say the dragon, whale, and pig are on the same line. General consensus, I feel like those are all pretty popular builds.
Wayne: They’re all our children. You're not supposed to have favorites, right? First born is the dragons. That sets the tone. Every build we made, we were trying to outdo ourselves. We've never tried to just settle for, “Okay, this is good enough.” The mentality was we have to treat every single build like it’s the finale build. And, it's one of those things, you just never know. Like, is it enough? The judges have seen everything that you’ve been capable of doing so far. So, it becomes one of those things where you say “What more can I do from there?” We think we're going 100%, but now they’re asking for that extra 1%. It’s like something you've never seen before. So that just becomes the challenge. You've got to dig deep; you've got to find something you've never found before. It's unfortunate because, for me personally, that finale build...to be honest with you, it's a build. I'm glad that we were able to put out something, but my own personal feeling on the matter is that we know what we are capable of. We knew if we'd been able to execute what we were trying to do, it would have been something more. But, you know, there's a lot of stuff that happens behind the scenes that we don't want to share. We’ll just leave it at that.
Zack: With the final build, I wanted to do some pretty ambitious stuff. I wanted to have my dragons moving. I wanted it to be lit a specific way. I wanted it to turn. I wanted it to tell a story. I felt like I was trying to accomplish a lot. I was happy that I was able to accomplish the things that I was able to accomplish. One of these days I'm going to have to revisit the idea and really do exactly what I was thinking at the moment.
Wayne: In the end, all I know is I enjoyed building with this guy (pointing at Zack). We went in saying, “Hey, let's see, what kind of an impression we can make.” And it seems like we left saying, “Okay, I guess we could do all the crazy things we wanted to.”
Zack: That final build was where you could get to play around with figure building, building little figures and little characters. Building with scale, too. That was fun. Five million bricks, you gotta build something big.
The thing that your team was known for were all the technical builds. How do you come up with these ingenious structural components?
Zack: I build a lot of technical stuff: LEGO robots with functions and mechanisms, tanks, military vehicles, trucks. That's solid in my background of LEGO building. Usually, I figure out the mechanism but never get around to dressing it up or making it look pretty. That's definitely what was happening with LEGO Masters. I can get the mechanism down and then, at the end of it, it's just dressing it up. Usually it goes in that order, right, we come up with the structure, we've come up with the general mass that you want to put in there, then we add the final detail. We usually ended up with three or four creative elements. You get a landscape, you get a character, then you have an environment. And then on top of that you have a mechanism that amplifies either your environment or it amplifies your character.
Another big theme for you is your heritage. How did it play a role in your journey on LEGO Masters?
Zack: It's just kind of this stuff that pops out. It's like that old joke that your dad would always say. I guess we have family stories... So when my brother tells a story, I've heard this story like a million times. But then when you're on LEGO Masters, this is the first time anybody gets to hear it outside of us. The stuff we put in LEGO Masters are stories that we've heard a million times.
Wayne: I guess that's the thing. You are the summation of your experiences and your preferences. Right. To be fair, we were the only Chinese people on the TV show. I thought we would flesh it out, because we had Moby Dick...funny story with that. I actually happen to be quite a history buff on the history of whaling. You know that's one of the big reasons why the Revolutionary War was won. Because the Americans had to pay for a lot of stuff for the whale oil. And then when it came to Panacio the Fencer, Zack read a book...
Zack: Cyrano de Bergerac.
Wayne: Yeah. He's this guy who is extremely talented, but he's very sensitive about his nose, and it's basically a tale about a guy who has what he considers a deformity, but it doesn't stop him from being excellent.
Zack: And there are words that are said that stick in your mind when you're in the competition, and one of them was definitely “panache.” That's one of the words that got stuck in my head. Some of the other words were, “extreme,” and, “large.”
Wayne: “Never seen before.”
Zack: “Never seen before,” right. And as you're there and you’re picking up what it is that people are saying, that's going to influence your thinking or the way you're building.
Wayne: I guess I can sum it up as, basically, you're digging really deep every single time. The worst thing you can do is try and close [your mind] up. It's like iterations, right? This is how you build it the first time and that makes you think, “Okay, what could we do to make this even next level from here?” A lot of stuff we build is trial and error.
Which of your builds would you say you're most proud of, or was your favourite?
Zack: If I think about it, the dragons and then the castle. Because I feel like the dragons brought us into LEGO Masters, and then the castle pushed us over to the finish line. Right, it's like we stretched out really far and we got over to the finale.
Wayne: I agree. I have to really thank my brother for that. Literally, the morning of that episode, my friend had just passed away. Minutes before we started filming. So, I had very conflicting feelings for me right at that point. I actually had to ask myself, “Do I still want to be here?” I had to say, “I can’t let Zack down. I have to do my part.” It's bittersweet. It makes you appreciate what you have more and you go on from there.
Who did you banter back and forth with that we may not have seen, since we didn’t see that on the show?
Wayne: Oh, you know, this is the funniest thing ever. This was the honest consensus: we may have accidentally scared everyone after the first episode. But the first people I really opened up to were Jack and Dawn. There were a lot of things that they experienced which I relate with a lot. And then, going on from there, I really bonded a lot with Jen & Susan. Jen is a really hardcore person, she's fierce, and, you know she's a nurse, right? She can save your life. You know, she was my personal favorite. [points to Zack] I don't even like this guy as much as I like her.
Zack: I guess for me, it’s that when we are competing, I am 100% dialed in. I'm not able to talk with anyone and anything can just trigger me. You don't want to be cursing on the camera.
Wayne: You know who was the most fun to interact with? Caleb and Jacob. Those guys right there, I almost felt like, “Oh, my young son. You're developing into such a fine young man.” The ups, the downs. It's like Luke Skywalker. When he lost, when he ran off that ramp thing, it's like when Luke lost his hand. But he came back even stronger and better. We could tell you endless stories about how much we loved chatting with everyone back in holding. It was this very special bunch of people, that's all I can say. Also, you don't realize it, but the main reason why we seem so reserved, I had been talking for at least the equivalent of three hours each episode. I was not reserved.
Zack: Wayne was not reserved at all.
Wayne: I think I should have learned my lesson: you have to talk in quotable comments. I have a tendency to talk with one big sentence.
Do you have any fun memories from interacting with Will and Brickmasters Jamie and Amy to share?
Wayne: I love Will. Will is fun. There’s two laughs that you’ll see on the show. There’s the normal laugh. But when Will said to us that he had an excellent name for our build for the floating brick episode: “Moby Brick,” that made me laugh a lot. It’s like, ‘Thank you, Will, you gave me a few knee-slappers right there.’ That was my favorite moment, and then the one where I appreciated him the most is when he was bringing us back together for the land and sea challenge. I was just like, ‘Oh thank you, Will, I love you so much more than Evil Will.’
Zack: It’s just the looks on their [Brickmasters Amy and Jamie’s] faces when they're trying to talk to you about your builds - I like to let the build do the talking, I’m that type of person - when they give you a look about your builds. You say something but that's not what your face is telling me, you're basically telling me something else like, ‘yeah, kudos.’
Wayne: At some point we realized something. We're a little hard to put a finger on. I mean very early on, we even learned we can’t describe ourselves half the time. Our original team name was supposed to be the Sushi Bros but it's just because Zack and me were working at a sushi restaurant for a while before we got on the show. But before that we built buildings; we used to play airsoft and video games. And at the end of the day, we’re just Zack and Wayne.
Zack: Yeah, they tried going by team names but they just ended up with Zack and Wayne. Then Will is actually pretty empathetic, right? There were times when I was thinking, ‘am I really sure I want to show off my build this way to the judges?’ and then Will walks up and tells you, ‘It’s how you sell it.’
Wayne: Will’s a big personality but he has a good soul. At some point we understood - you know when someone has nothing but good intent for you and we felt that with Will.
If you could have added two extra hours to any of the challenges, which one would it be?
Wayne: I want to say the shake table challenge, because that was probably the only time where we didn’t use our time well. We had spent half the time thinking about what we were going to do. So that was the only time that we didn't use the time wisely to our advantage. So I think with an extra two hours our tower would have gone all the way to ten; if we had just had like 30 minutes I'm sure we could have broken the machine..
Were there any challenges from season one that you would have liked to have this season?
Wayne: The bridge, the bridge!
Zack: I would definitely have loved the bridge.
Wayne: This guy is a bridge guy. The castle challenge was just as much of a bridge challenge, I feel, because you got to extend the thing out. But if we were going to make a bridge I said, ‘Oh man, that would have been pretty darn epic.’
Zack: I think another cool challenge would be that half and half challenge. That's the one where they get half of an item and then mesh it with something else. Because that's just pure creativity that you need for that type of challenge and you just throw out any ideas.
In the Land & Sea challenge, teams had build separately then combined the two. How did that process go for you?
Wayne: Well, first, it was a look of pure horror. “Oh my gosh, me and Zack have to build separately.” I was telling myself this could be a real issue. Because I can build things fast, but in terms of creativity, I know anything I do pales in comparison to what this guy's going to do. Zack was going to make a lionfish. I knew he was going to make a lionfish, no matter what. My first intention was to make a tiger. I very early on realized, I’m probably not going to be able to build a tiger. Then I remember Zack saying a long time ago, “Why don't you try building a peacock? It's not that hard, it should be something straightforward you can do.” So, okay, I’m going to try and build a peacock. But then, “Wasn’t this one of the builds for the finale in the last season? There’s no way this is going to be easy.” And somehow I wound up on [a croc]. That's the first time I'd worn the Kelsey bracelet. It's like, “Oh, thank you, Kelsey, I think you just saved us.” Because Zack here, without me, doesn't know how to time-manage. And, obviously, what happens is he waits until the last second and his (lionfish) tail falls off. We clearly build better together than separately. It was just funny, it turns out we built the exact same scale. It's like, “Whoa, that's spooky.” So it looks like I did get something out of this experience.
Many thanks to our friends at True North Bricks, BZ Power and the Brothers Brick for their collaboration on this interview.
All photo credits: FOX
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13 comments on this article
Easily my favorite group from this season, built at a different level than the rest and appreciated their humor between each other! Also enjoyed seeing the personal/heritage aspect being brought into the builds, always gave a smile.
I was cheering for these guys throughout. While I do think the correct team won in the finals, purely based on that episode's build, Zach and Wayne were always my favorites. The one thing I liked is how Wayne was constantly going to other tables and giving positive feedback to other builders. I am sure that happens a lot on the show and we don't see it but it is a positive message to send my children.
Wayne said:
"Literally, the morning of that episode, my friend had just passed away. Minutes before we started filming."
Oh man, that's rough! My condolences to Wayne. :(
I think a lot of the teams probably were intimidated by this team making that dragon right out of the gate (I’m pretty sure it’s been mentioned in a few exit interviews), and a lot of viewers probably thought this was going to be the team that won the most challenges. Looking through the elimination tables, both the top two and bottom two finishes were a lot more spread out, where S1 had a four week stretch where each eliminated team had faced elimination the previous episode, and the win category was dominated by two teams.
As much as I see people say these guys should have won, I see a lot of people who are dismissive of their builds. Based on some of the answers here, I have to wonder how much of that comes from a Euro-centric sense of aesthetics. I probably know more Japanese folklore than the average American (which still isn’t a lot), and just a sprinkling of Chinese folklore. Based on the answers here, there’s probably a lot of hidden meaning that passed over the collective heads of most viewers, and probably both judges as well.
These two were phenomenal builders for sure. They can build big and strong. Very impressive.
I think the editing ruined this team for me though. It made them (especially Wayne) feel very stand offish, but in this interview he seems more lively and positive. *shrug* that's tv for ya...
I will agree they were in top three. All the finalists did a great job, so tough to see how they'd battle it out if the challenge was different.
This team had my support ever since their jaw-dropping build in the first episode. And of the teams, they seemed to consistently have some of the most mastery over the technical side of things (stability and mechanical functions). I was disappointed that their final build didn't quite go the distance (if anything, it may have been too ambitious, both in terms of the planned functions and the monumental scale), but still impressed with what they came up with and happy for what they brought to the show.
I was in favor of Zach & Wayne winning in the finale but all the builds were good. I loved their first one the dragon and was solidly their fans when they came up with the whale. I would have liked to have seen more of the actual building by everyone but especially their builds.
I'm curious how these interviews are conducted. Are they spoken and then transcribed, are they typing responses in a chat, or are they responding via e-mail?
It seems like they're transcribed, but then I see things like "(cancer)", "(hometown)", and "(lionfish)" and wonder if they were typing that to clarify themselves. Are these editor-inserted? Typically editor-inserted clarifications will be in square brackets...and I do see some (such as "[points at Zack]") in there.
Some other interviews read as if the people were interviewed separately and asked the same questions since there's little to no interaction between the team members and they'll have one person's response and then the other's.
@PDelahanty said:
"I'm curious how these interviews are conducted. Are they spoken and then transcribed, are they typing responses in a chat, or are they responding via e-mail?
It seems like they're transcribed, but then I see things like "(cancer)", "(hometown)", and "(lionfish)" and wonder if they were typing that to clarify themselves. Are these editor-inserted? Typically editor-inserted clarifications will be in square brackets...and I do see some (such as "[points at Zack]") in there.
Some other interviews read as if the people were interviewed separately and asked the same questions since there's little to no interaction between the team members and they'll have one person's response and then the other's."
The interviews are conducted via Zoom, then transcribed and edited. I add clarifying words in brackets where I think it's helpful. As for how they read, some teams take turns answering questions, which is why it seems like there's little to no interaction. Other teams interact more with each other while answering. No matter the interviewees' answering style, I try to keep the spirit of the responses accurate throughout transcription and editing.
Thank you, MeganL, for quickly addressing the elephant in the room, with your second question. I mean, it’s a good point, why were they often in the top two but usually finished second? It was clear from Wayne’s response that they may be aware of some of the online commentators, including folks rooting for them and others dismissing them.
As many have noted, Zack and Wayne have been superior in their technical skills. I think that’s clear to most everyone. I agree with PurpleDave that perhaps much of the judging was from a Euro-centric view of aesthetics, without perhaps comprehending the rich multi-layered cultural aspects Zack and Wayne brought to the competition.
I also agree with Sethro3 that the judicious production editing done may have unfortunately portrayed Wayne as aloof and unemotional when it was clear, to me anyway, that Wayne is a sensitive, caring individual.
Like others have commented, I too felt blown away at Zack and Wayne’s first build, and I even predicted after episode one that the LEGO Masters trophy is theirs to lose. Indeed, I felt like they usually had the best build each episode, but may have fallen short in the final episode. If only the intended dragon motion would have worked then maybe the judges would have been convinced too.
I’ll admit, though, that Mark and Steven wowed me with their “moving lights underwater” in their Groot scene, even though I was rooting for Zack and Wayne to take the trophy home.
Zack and Wayne have a hell of a lot to be proud of. I often wondered if there was a production-related reason that they got 2nd instead of 1st in more than one contest.
The last build wasn't their best work. What they were trying to do with the dragons seemed extremely complex, and they just ran out of time trying to make it work. Had they succeeded - both in making the automation work and in telling the story with the waterfall and the fish, that would have been fantastic. As it was, it was impressively large. It had a lot of detail. But it didn't have the same level of imagination and fantastical-ness as its competition. I would have given first to Caleb and Jacob, had I had a vote. But none of that diminishes the insane awesomeness of what Zach and Wayne did in their other builds. Just wow!
@MeganL said:
" The interviews are conducted via Zoom, then transcribed and edited. I add clarifying words in brackets where I think it's helpful. As for how they read, some teams take turns answering questions, which is why it seems like there's little to no interaction. Other teams interact more with each other while answering. No matter the interviewees' answering style, I try to keep the spirit of the responses accurate throughout transcription and editing."
Thank you for the insight. These interviews have been amazing and I have loved reading each one from both seasons. I'm looking forward to more in the future. (They're going to do a third season, right?)
Zach and Wayne were impressive throughout. I think the correct team won in the end, and I think the judges pointed out late in the season what likely was the difference: while Zach and Wayne were the best technical builders and always built BIG, that oftentimes came at the expense of the same high levels of creativity and detail that some of the others teams displayed. This showed up in both of the last two challenges: their bridge was the longest, and very impressive. But it was clearly just third best castle that round, having huge swathes of fairly blank flat sections, and a pagoda at the top that lacked In detail and flair, relative to the others.
The minute I saw their final build coming together towards the end of the show, I immediately saw the same issue. From a distance you saw a lot of flat/plain red and yellow swathes that repeated all up and down the build. All the awesome details were buried inside. The scale of the building also was too large in comparison to the 2 dragons, which neutered their impressiveness and impact. I think in both of those final two challenges, and perhaps some others, they may have fared better by sacrificing sheer size I. Favor of greater detail.