Recategorisation of Creator Expert sets
Posted by Huw,
Following the announcement that 18+ sets are to be marketed as Icons at LEGO.com and other retailers, and the subsequent discussion in the comments of that article, we have decided to recategorise sets in the Creator Expert theme as follows:
- Those released prior to 2013 have been moved (or rather, returned) to the theme Advanced Models
- Those released from 2013 to March 2020 remain in the Creator Expert theme
- Those released from April 2020 to date are now in the theme Icons
The behaviour of subtheme tags has been changed so that clicking on, say, Winter Village will now return sets from all three themes rather than just those from the theme of the set you're looking at.
The New for 2022 list in the Browse menu (on desktops) will be updated in due course once the data in the cache has been refreshed.
If you have any comments or concerns, or find any anomalies, please let us know in the comments.
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48 comments on this article
I guess this theme will become its own icon eventually
What a headache! Pick something good and stick with it.
I think this is wrong, because 'Icons' is just marketing and completely ignoring the set itself. Complex car models (for AFOLs) are different than modulars, but both will get this assigned.
I'd prefer myself that it reflected the box printing.. i.e. if the ones currently printed as creator expert stay that way they are not icons sets, any appearing that are printed as icons sets are icons sets. If we started to follow the marketing "virtual category" do we need to add lots of sets into "adult welcome" theme?
PS: on a downer as my lovely lego catalogue that drops through the door is no more.... rather than the lovely bright one covering a massive range of sets and interests they have sent me a shiny and moody "adults welcome" one instead with a far narrower range of "more display focussed" sets
I know there's no ideal solution but for me personally, I would have preferred them all to be under one theme in the database such as 'Creator Expert / Icons'. That would keep them together when sorting by theme in owned sets. It's a bit messy with the 3 categories, despite being technically accurate.
Let's face it, Creator Expert is dead. Now it's just one-offs and collections (Botanical Collection, Modular Building Collection, Fairgrounds Collection, Winter Village Collection etc.). May as well put all of these that aren't labeled "Creator Expert" under Icons.
@IgelCampus said:
"I think this is wrong, because 'Icons' is just marketing and completely ignoring the set itself. Complex car models (for AFOLs) are different than modulars, but both will get this assigned."
Creator Expert was also used for "Complex car models" and "modulars" at the same time. Icons can refer to iconic things from the real world like popular cars or structures and to iconic sets in the Lego world like modulars or the fairground collection.
Icons is a good theme name, who doesn't like it is just against change,
Also, why is the gift with purchase taxi part of the Modular Buildings subtheme?
And the Modular Buildings tag full of buildings that aren't compatible with the Modular Buildings Scheme? Stuff like Ninjago city, that is still technically a modular building but in a different format, should get its own tag like "Modular Ninjago City".
Returning to Advanced Models is a good decision. The older sets didn't really have an official theme back when they were released and recategorising them under Creator Expert a few years ago felt strange.
@waylander said:
"What a headache! Pick something good and stick with it."
Especially since the world doesn't evolve at all. We should just keep forcing things into the same old categories, even if they don't belong there...
@IgelCampus said:
"I think this is wrong, because 'Icons' is just marketing and completely ignoring the set itself. Complex car models (for AFOLs) are different than modulars, but both will get this assigned."
How exactly is this different from Creator Expert?
That theme did the same thing!
Look, you might not agree with the name; I'm not fond of it either, but let's face it: Creator had outgrown itself. It was either split it into separate categories or rebrand it. TLG opted for the latter. That's a choice; whether or not it's a good one only time will tell.
Frankly, I don't think the new system is bad.
The overarching theme has an overarching name (for better or for worse) and the names of the sub-themes or 'collections' are clear enough on their own.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense; it'll just take a while to get used to it...
This is similar to World/Town/City and should be treated as such.
With the behaviour of the subtheme menu adapted it should be easy enough to find what you are looking for (droids excluded).
I think the choice made by the Brickset team is the right one.
Wouldn't this change be better done when Lego change their online store.
At present they still have Creator Expert listed as an option when browsing by theme.
@Mattw2 said:
"Wouldn't this change be better done when Lego change their online store.
At present they still have Creator Expert listed as an option when browsing by theme."
They are listed under both Creator Expert and Icons
https://brickset.com/click/?u=https://www.lego.com/en-gb/themes/creator-expert
https://brickset.com/click/?u=https://www.lego.com/en-gb/themes/lego-icons
I like this separation from creator more, than the "Creator but better" label tbh. But couldn't they have just stuck with the original theme name?
I thought to myself 'so that means that all the 18+ sets released before the Icons name announcement are still in Creator Expert, right? Could be useful to give them some 18+ tag of their own.
Then I clicked on the Creator Expert theme, only to realize that 2020 is a full TWO YEARS ago and my internal calendar is completely messed up after the whole pandemic thing. Yes, I genuinely thought that 18+ was released prior to 2020 and felt like only a short time had passed since 2020, LOL. I basically skipped any memory of the last two years except LEGO reveals.
what an unbelievable mess :/
I am still thinking, that this "icons" marking will not stand long.
@Pravi_diablo said:
"I am still thinking, that this "icons" marking will not stand long. "
Me too. It's not a great labelling. Just Expert would be better.
I really don't care what they call them. I categorize them myself as either "like, will buy" or "not interested".
That's very nice, because now I can see all Magazine gifts with one click!
@mkrey said:
"I really don't care what they call them. I categorize them myself as either "like, will buy" or "not interested".
"
^^ Ayuh.
@MZ_1 said:
"That's very nice, because now I can see all Magazine gifts with one click!"
Yes, that is a side-effect that in most cases is desirable, but might not be in others.
I think the way it is handled here at Brickset is fine, especially for finding what you're looking for.
For my personal use, I still call all these adult oriented sets Creator Expert, and everyone I talk to about it immediately knows what is meant. LEGO always changes branding in one way or another, in a couple of years "Icons" too will be a thing of the past, exchanged for something new again. Even then I will still use the term Creator Expert, just like I still call all the City sets "Stadt" (as in LEGOLAND Stadt of the Eighties and Nineties), which in German is correct anyway.
Change just for the sake of change will never meet with my approval, just like it doesn’t outside of the world of bricks.
Call me an old dog who doesn't like to learn new tricks, see if I care ;-)
Caveat: I am very fond of change if it brings undeniable advantages for me, like BluRay versus VHS, or my Tesla Model 3 versus my old BMW 3 series Diesel, or my smartphone versus my Nokia 3210 of old.
A different type of branding just for the heck of it simply doesn't fall into the same category of improvements to me.
However, what about sets still listed under Miscellaneous but have 18+ on the box like 40516 : Everyone is Awesome ?
Isn't that set supposed to be under Icons now as well if 40532 : Vintage Taxi or 40567 : Forest Hideout etc are ?
I've played around with the new subtheme filters and I really like it like this where a subtheme can be shared between multiple themes. My only nitpick is that some old Town sets go under VEHICLES along with Creator Expert and Icons sets, but they are not comparable at all and not part of the same collection.
@CCC said:
"Can't you fill in the request form entering the birthdate for a 10 year old? EDIT: You can't - you must be at least 18!"
There are ways around that…
Honestly does the name really matter? How often do people sort through owned sets by type?
As long as Lego are still putting out good advanced/larger sets I don't care what the label has on it!!
Funny enough, I think the logo for Icons is anything but iconic. Something about it feels messy to me. In my opinion they need to give it a few more passes of refinement.
Thank you Brickset for sensibly categorizing sets (even if LEGO cannot).
@TeriXeri said:
"However, what about sets still listed under Miscellaneous but have 18+ on the box like 40516 : Everyone is Awesome ?
Isn't that set supposed to be under Icons now as well if 40532 : Vintage Taxi or 40567 : Forest Hideout etc are ? "
Yes it is, thank you.
Not a fan of this change, not at all :/
The complainers could just start their own database page and not worry what someone working hard is changing categories to.
It always amazes me how quickly people can form such strong opinions about something they've paid little attention to before.
This change was made for casual fans (who may be turned off by an "expert" label, thinking it's not for them), not people who are so into Lego that they leave comments at Brickset about Lego's marketing decisions.
@Shropshire said:
"PS: on a downer as my lovely lego catalogue that drops through the door is no more.... rather than the lovely bright one covering a massive range of sets and interests they have sent me a shiny and moody "adults welcome" one instead with a far narrower range of "more display focussed" sets"
Well, this morning my glossy new Lego catalogue dropped through my letter box..... for Easter 22! Must look out for the Easter Chicks GWP in March!
Lego's catalogue distribution is as big a shambles as their random Theme naming. Even their online catalogue is Jan-May. Just as well their products are better than their abysmal marketing.
Icons sounds like architecture to me, like the Statue of Liberty or Eiffel Tower
Wild that there are more Icons sets (41) than Creatir Exoert (36) or Advanced Midels (35).
Puts the acceleration into this type of set into perspective!
We're not voting, buy my vote would be to use the category as printed on the box. Lines come and go, we don't have to remediate discontinued lines to fit current lines.
On a related note, it would do the world good if Lego got the "building toys" license for Scooby Doo again since they have so many other Warner Entertainment lines. The Playmobil Scooby Doo stuff is pretty lame.
I understand that change is something that’s met with hostility by some people but I don’t have strong thoughts on this, all I know is that putting a basic build like Everyone is Awesome in the Creator Expert category was a bit odd.
Ah Marketing Departments. The bane of anyone trying to organize information. Thanks for your work!
The problem we're facing is that "Themes" aren't exclusivly themes anymore, they are product lines. So I do belive we need 3 ways of sorting sets:
1. By product line, aka the official categorization from Lego
2. By theme, these are a bit subjective, and some items could belong to multiple, but its usefull to find the medival blacksmith or the creator castle from last year when looking up the Castle theme.
3. Tags, for when you just want any set that is a "castle", but not limited to the castle theme, and care not for the castle line sets that aren't actual castles like siege equipents and tiny men with trolleys.
@Huw said:
" @Mattw2 said:
"Wouldn't this change be better done when Lego change their online store.
At present they still have Creator Expert listed as an option when browsing by theme."
They are listed under both Creator Expert and Icons
https://brickset.com/click/?u=https://www.lego.com/en-gb/themes/creator-expert
https://brickset.com/click/?u=https://www.lego.com/en-gb/themes/lego-icons "
Just to make things super confusing, Lego's online shop (in the US) currently lists:
... 27 sets in BOTH the Creator Expert category and Icons category (including super-recent releases like Optimus Prime),
... 3 upcoming sets that are only in the Icons category (Galaxy Explorer, Lion Knights' Castle, Loop Coaster) for 30 total in that category, seemingly making mid-2022 the cutoff point?
... 5 older sets that are only in the Creator Expert category (London Bus, Apollo 11 Lander, Ford Mustang, Bookshop, Assembly Square), for 32 total in that category. Sometime in early 2020 seems to be the moment the ret-conned Icons category begins overlapping with Creator Expert, since Bookshop (January 2020) is not an Icons set, but Fiat 500 (March 2020) is an Icons set, even though it still pre-dates the "18+" box branding that came later that year.
I am more interested in what's in the box than the theme printed on the outside. If calling the adult orientated products that don't fit in any other theme "Icons" keeps them producing the wide variety of sets they have been over the last 2 years then great. So what if "Icons" is banal, it doesn't affect the building process or display of the set.
The theme name only really matters when you're trying to group together a bunch of fairly disparate products for listing or database purposes.
I think the categorisation on Brickset is probably the most sensible solution given that LEGO themselves didn't manage to come up with anything to categorise the sets after they took Creator Expert off the boxes but didn't put another specific theme on to replace it.
@dbbunny said:
"I know there's no ideal solution but for me personally, I would have preferred them all to be under one theme in the database such as 'Creator Expert / Icons'. That would keep them together when sorting by theme in owned sets. It's a bit messy with the 3 categories, despite being technically accurate."
This, and to me it seems like an ideal solution.
@dbbunny says:
"I know there's no ideal solution but for me personally, I would have preferred them all to be under one theme in the database such as 'Creator Expert / Icons'. That would keep them together when sorting by theme in owned sets. It's a bit messy with the 3 categories, despite being technically accurate."
Agree with that.
On the other and, the Cuusoo/Ideas theme followed the same path.
I think that it is not a good solution to split existing series in more than one theme, it makes consult the database confusing. Regroup using tags is not intuitive and not ever responds to users' needs.
Otherwise it would be possible to mark existing series (for example Winter Village) as Creator Expert and new ones as Icons, but I suppose it is not the desired solution because it conflicts with LEGO categorization.
well thats more confusing than Bionicle's Titans/Warriors/unclassified big sets in the reboot
@Shropshire said:
"I'd prefer myself that it reflected the box printing.. i.e. if the ones currently printed as creator expert stay that way they are not icons sets, any appearing that are printed as icons sets are icons sets. If we started to follow the marketing "virtual category" do we need to add lots of sets into "adult welcome" theme?
PS: on a downer as my lovely lego catalogue that drops through the door is no more.... rather than the lovely bright one covering a massive range of sets and interests they have sent me a shiny and moody "adults welcome" one instead with a far narrower range of "more display focussed" sets"
Most set boxes don't have the Creator Expert label either, despite being in that category in some places online. The Icons label on the other hand will become printed on the boxes.
As they say in the Agile space: release it, get feedback, iterate, repeat.
@Anonym said:
"Icons is a good theme name, who doesn't like it is just against change,"
I love change. Love it. I think the name Icons isn’t the best that they could do. These two opinions can exist together within a person.
I think the solution by bricklink makes very much sense and is most accurate to the branding by LEGO.
The change in the subtheme Tag behaviour I definitely welcome.
The only thing that irritated me for a moment was the fact, that a least two sets (10214 &10220) originally released without the Creator Expert moniker on the boxes (like documented here on brickset) later got rededigned boxes branding them Creator Expert - or at least are pictured this way in the LEGO Instructions app.
But of course this app should not be used as a refernce at all since it is a mess all over - with inconsequent sorting and even sets being in completely false categories. And obviously no one feeling responsible at LEGO for clearing this mess, even when explicitly being pointed out.