A look at the Pick a Brick cardboard boxes
Posted by Huw,
Earlier this year LEGO conducted a trial in the Berlin and Bluewater brand stores, replacing plastic tubs with cardboard boxes for pick-a-brick purchases. Presumably it was deemed a success because they'll be appearing in all stores later this year, although we've not been informed exactly when.
LEGO has kindly sent us some to examine prior to their roll-out.
Like the tubs they come in two sizes which measure approximately 18.5 x 9.25 x 5.5cm and 9.25 x 9.25 x 5.5cm. The volumes are thus 941 cm³ and 470 cm³ which is 941ml and 470ml, so they have almost the same internal volume as the tubs which are, I believe, 950ml and 475ml.
They are made from unbleached c.250gsm card stock and attractively printed. On one side there's a blank speech bubble in which you could write a greeting or the contents of the box.
The blister pack used for build-a-minifigure purchases is also being replaced by a box which not as tall as the green one.
The flat-pack boxes are cleverly designed to fold easily and a tab on the bottom mates with a hole on the back to ensure that it stays solid and without any cracks for small pieces to escape through.
The internal measurements are 11.5 x 23 studs and 11.5 x 11.5 studs. Both are 5 bricks and 1 plate high. Ignoring the plate at the top and the half-brick dimension of the smaller side the volume of the large one is thus 1265 1x1 bricks or 158 2x4 bricks.
However, because the sides have odd number lengths, you can only fit a block of 2x4s stacked in a cube with the dimensions 22x10x5 so in practice you'd only get 137 in there, with space round the edges for a few 1x1 flower heads or something!
According to a post on Eurobricks it's possible to fit 142 into a large tub with careful and time-consuming stacking, so it's on a par with the large tub, capacity wise, but definitely much easier to fill efficiently.
The smaller one can accommodate 62 2x4s. The yellow box won't be used for PaB but it if were you'd get 37 in there.
Of course few of us only buy 2x4s from the wall, so most of this analysis is irrelevant. What's more important is that the boxes are recyclable but still sturdy enough to be reused. They'll also be far easier to carry home from the store in quantity!
Are you looking forward to finding them in your local brand store?
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63 comments on this article
I'm looking forward to these not just for environmental reasons but because a rectangle is so much easier to pack than the current PAB cusp. Especially when dealing with large elements it can be so difficult to fit into the current PAB cups that they can often only be filled on the top layer.
Looks like a nice packaging for a gift as well :)
For me, the plastic cups were not a practical storage solution and definitely not the best way to maximize my PAB selections. That's why I'm very happy with the change. The fact they are more environment friendly is a nice cherry on top.
Oh thank goodness, these will be so much easier to fill! Can't wait to find them in stores - any indication on how long they will take to start appearing?
(I'm a little sceptical since I'm still waiting to get one of the new paper parts bags in a set)
LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!
@Roebuck said:
"Looks like a nice packaging for a gift as well :) "
That was my thought. I can see myself building custom minifigs or minibuilds and gifting them to someone.
Looks good. I would miss the old containers, but I've 50 or so. This appears to be a positive economical-environmental move.
With the previous containers, you could save 50 cents by reusing those. I assume that won't be the case for the boxes?
@TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!"
The point being that most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers, and they end up in landfills where they will sit for hundreds of years.
Whereas an unblemished, unbleached cardboard box in a landfill will biodegrade in a couple of months.
I'm looking forward to the new boxes, though I think I'd like to have seen some real-world testing such as tossing it in a backpack and seeing how it handles the train ride home.
I'm a bit disappointed with the dimensions. If my math is correct, it'd be possible fit ~550 1x2's (masonry for example) in the larger box.
It's possible to fit 700 in the large cup.
That being said, environmentally these are much better. And, they'll be easier to fill.
A great idea. Very eco-positive. They look nice and also quite retro, kind of 1950s in design.
Were you all really throwing away your pick-a-brick cups before to make this an environmental concern? I still have all of mine and use them for storage to this day (there are...ahem... a "few").
@EdmondDantes said:
"I'm a bit disappointed with the dimensions. If my math is correct, it'd be possible fit ~550 1x2's (masonry for example) in the larger box.
It's possible to fit 700 in the large cup.
That being said, environmentally these are much better. And, they'll be easier to fill. "
I make it 630 1x2's
if box is 11.5 x 23 studs
11 rows of 11 1x2's (which equates to using up space of 11 studs down x 22 studs across) + 5 more the other way round as stud 23 down 10 of the rows x 5 bricks high
@SinKiller_Nick said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!"
The point being that most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers, and they end up in landfills where they will sit for hundreds of years.
Whereas an unblemished, unbleached cardboard box in a landfill will biodegrade in a couple of months. "
Really?! "most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers" Is that your assumption, or a fact?
I obviously (as you read) keep all my PAB tubs for storing and sorting bricks.
I am quite fond of my small collection of PAB tubs!
They are pretty indestructible, like your grandma's Tupperware ;-p
Why would people throw perfectly good and even good looking PAB tubs away?!
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station. So, no landfill, and people separate much of their waste to start with when throwing their rubbish away.
Well, I think Bryan Bonahoom will have considerable difficulty serving mixed drinks out of one of these…
I thought Lego had a policy that if you brought your PAB cups BACK to the store and reused them, you got a discount...if true/'still hold', THAT would be something that should be pushed and encouraged AS WELL as these boxes...just a thought...
Will they still put a "75p* off your next visit to the PAB wall if you reuse this cup" sticker on the boxes like they did with the cups?
It was always so satisfying getting money off an already good value proposition!
Follow up questions: Can we still reuse the cups? Will they still get the discount?
*Local currencies apply
@TheBigLegoski said:
" @SinKiller_Nick said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!"
The point being that most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers, and they end up in landfills where they will sit for hundreds of years.
Whereas an unblemished, unbleached cardboard box in a landfill will biodegrade in a couple of months. "
Really?! "most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers" Is that your assumption, or a fact?
I obviously (as you read) keep all my PAB tubs for storing and sorting bricks.
I am quite fond of my small collection of PAB tubs!
They are pretty indestructible, like your grandma's Tupperware ;-p
Why would people throw perfectly good and even good looking PAB tubs away?!
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station. So, no landfill, and people separate much of their waste to start with when throwing their rubbish away. "
It's a matter of numbers. You're still better off with renewable resources rather than longer lasting plastics. That being said, you're right that there are two categories of uses: like Lego bricks that you want to last, storage solutions can be interesting too. But it's still better if those are made of a resource that we might not run out of as quickly...
@bananaworld said:
"
Will they still put a "75p* off your next visit to the PAB wall if you reuse this cup" sticker on the boxes like they did with the cups?
It was always so satisfying getting money off an already good value proposition!
Follow up questions: Can we still reuse the cups? Will they still get the discount?
*Local currencies apply"
I don't think that detail has been communicated yet.
Easier to fill, easier to carry, easier to store, easier to recycle. Hoping they'll turn up in Brum soon
Can't wait for the opportunity to try these out. I've got quite a few of the plastic cups that I diligently take along with me when I visit my local Lego stores in hopes of finding interesting parts in the PAB wall. My stock of them grows whenever I visit Disneyland or Walt Disney World because I don't pack my empties to take with me. I am especially glad to see the replacement boxes for those awful BAM blister packs. Not going to miss those.
Finally I can buy more than 15-20 5x6 panels without having to fill in air gaps with 1x1 somethings. I'll still put the plates inside them though. At the local store I managed to convince them to sell me the shipping boxes they receive. Soon, maybe I won't have to.
If i would believe the main goal of the cardboard boxes was environmental I would love it. But Lego Group is a company that wants the most profit as possible. So I am sure firstly they know they will make a profit. For example, the plastic cups will go on for ever, I am pretty sure the boxes will not live for years. And probable cheaper to make too.
Also can you keep using the plastic cups? Because for example I got 5 and I can pay a little less. Do I have to replace them, paying more or do I get 5 new boxes with same discount?
And are the prices staying the same? That was not in the article.
@TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long."
That's the whole point: your waste shouldn't linger on in oceans or landfills long after you're gone. The plastic containers may be nice to you now, but at some point they'll get disposed off and plastics are a serious problem. I've seen bays in the Caribbean full of plastic bottles and single-use plastics. Those degrade very slowly (because they're so durable) and micro bits of plastic end up in ocean water and, eventually, in our food and drinking water.
I know there's a bit of a double standard since LEGO produces and sells plastic objects, but at least the bricks and minifigs will be reused and enjoyed for many generations to come, as LEGO's proven to be a timeless toy. The plastic stuff that gets thrown away though, like packaging materials, will only be a pain for future generations.
I'm not a PAB guy myself, but these boxes look nice and practical for square bricks. I do occasionally buy the LEGO Store build-a-minifigs, and while the blisters do present the figures nicely if you decide to display them that way, they're very inconvenient for storage and produce a lot of waste for only three little figs. I'll feel better about making a purchase knowing there'll be less waste.
These definitely look a lot easier to stack and keep neatly than the cups. A nice change.
I assume they will let you reuse cups (or the boxes)- why not? If the price goes up, well, it would go up eventually anyway; I can't remember the last time it increased.
I like the boxes. There is always wasted space in the cups, especially the anti-stud on the bottom and stud on the lid. The boxes will be easier to fill.
@Shropshire said:
" @EdmondDantes said:
"I'm a bit disappointed with the dimensions. If my math is correct, it'd be possible fit ~550 1x2's (masonry for example) in the larger box.
It's possible to fit 700 in the large cup.
That being said, environmentally these are much better. And, they'll be easier to fill. "
I make it 630 1x2's
if box is 11.5 x 23 studs
11 rows of 11 1x2's (which equates to using up space of 11 studs down x 22 studs across) + 5 more the other way round as stud 23 down 10 of the rows x 5 bricks high"
Plus, you can still put a layer of plates on top, and perhaps on the front, in the 1/2 brick space left- a plate is slightly thicker than half of the width of a brick, so maybe you could squeeze them in. If not, then tiles. Also, I wonder if you could get a layer of tiles on top of a layer of plates on top of your 5-high block of bricks...
@TheBigLegoski said:
" @SinKiller_Nick said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!"
The point being that most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers, and they end up in landfills where they will sit for hundreds of years.
Whereas an unblemished, unbleached cardboard box in a landfill will biodegrade in a couple of months. "
Really?! "most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers" Is that your assumption, or a fact?
I obviously (as you read) keep all my PAB tubs for storing and sorting bricks.
I am quite fond of my small collection of PAB tubs!
They are pretty indestructible, like your grandma's Tupperware ;-p
Why would people throw perfectly good and even good looking PAB tubs away?!
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station. So, no landfill, and people separate much of their waste to start with when throwing their rubbish away. "
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station.
Doesn't that cause alot polution burning stuff... sounds dangerous unhealthy.
@ToysFromTheAttic said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long."
That's the whole point: your waste shouldn't linger on in oceans or landfills long after you're gone. The plastic containers may be nice to you now, but at some point they'll get disposed off and plastics are a serious problem. I've seen bays in the Caribbean full of plastic bottles and single-use plastics. Those degrade very slowly (because they're so durable) and micro bits of plastic end up in ocean water and, eventually, in our food and drinking water.
I know there's a bit of a double standard since LEGO produces and sells plastic objects, but at least the bricks and minifigs will be reused and enjoyed for many generations to come, as LEGO's proven to be a timeless toy. The plastic stuff that gets thrown away though, like packaging materials, will only be a pain for future generations.
I'm not a PAB guy myself, but these boxes look nice and practical for square bricks. I do occasionally buy the LEGO Store build-a-minifigs, and while the blisters do present the figures nicely if you decide to display them that way, they're very inconvenient for storage and produce a lot of waste for only three little figs. I'll feel better about making a purchase knowing there'll be less waste."
I agree (obviously) that plastic litter and microplastics are a serious problem, but that's not the same as plastic being the problem. The plastic cylindrical containers are not the items that are carelessly thrown away. Plastic used for disposable stuff is a big problem, and human behaviour is the largest problem there is.
Good to know that around 4000 1 x 1 plates will fit in. That's excellent value (and a lot of work)!
@missedoutagain said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
" @SinKiller_Nick said:
" @TheBigLegoski said:
"LEGO = ABS = plastic!
The obsession with paper bags, and cardboard boxes (made from trees) instead of durable plastic is beyond me?!
Supposedly more environmentally friendly?!
Those PAB tubs will still server me fine in five decades time (they will outlive me) but those paper/cardboard boxes definitely will not last very long.
I much rather have square tubs, as opposed to round tubs (they are perfectly stackable BTW), than flimsy square dust magnet cardboard boxes.
Seems all like greenwashing to me.
Also, those tubs are transparent, so you can directly see what bricks are in there.
Not sure what type of plastic those tubs are made of? Some plastics are recyclable, such as ABS (amorphous polymers, which can be melted down and used to make new Lego bricks). Others not, or not so much. Plastic can be sourced from petrol/oil, but also from other materials. I am not sure cardboard/paper is necessarily better?!
The only net positive I see is: square bricks in a square box are easier stackable.
Anyway, thanks for the information. Much appreciated @huw!"
The point being that most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers, and they end up in landfills where they will sit for hundreds of years.
Whereas an unblemished, unbleached cardboard box in a landfill will biodegrade in a couple of months. "
Really?! "most people don't reuse or recycle their PAB plastic containers" Is that your assumption, or a fact?
I obviously (as you read) keep all my PAB tubs for storing and sorting bricks.
I am quite fond of my small collection of PAB tubs!
They are pretty indestructible, like your grandma's Tupperware ;-p
Why would people throw perfectly good and even good looking PAB tubs away?!
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station. So, no landfill, and people separate much of their waste to start with when throwing their rubbish away. "
Where I live, garbage/rubbish ends up in the incineration oven of the local electric power station.
Doesn't that cause alot polution burning stuff... sounds dangerous unhealthy."
Surprisingly, I don't believe it does. I saw the power station in Copenhagen when I was there last month, and I imagine it works similarly to the one the above commenter is talking about. That power plant is completely carbon neutral, and quite common in Northern Europe.
@Shropshire said:
" @EdmondDantes said:
"I'm a bit disappointed with the dimensions. If my math is correct, it'd be possible fit ~550 1x2's (masonry for example) in the larger box.
It's possible to fit 700 in the large cup.
That being said, environmentally these are much better. And, they'll be easier to fill. "
I make it 630 1x2's
if box is 11.5 x 23 studs
11 rows of 11 1x2's (which equates to using up space of 11 studs down x 22 studs across) + 5 more the other way round as stud 23 down 10 of the rows x 5 bricks high"
You're right - I was simply multiplying the 137 2x4's by four.
Even so - 630 is a 10% reduction from the 700 that can be fit in a large cup.
@Pavell said:
"Easier to fill, easier to carry, easier to store, easier to recycle. Hoping they'll turn up in Brum soon"
I broadly agree with you, but it's the “easier to carry” bit I'm not sure about. I live in Belfast, so the nearest LEGO shops to me are in Dublin and Glasgow, places which I visit most often for rugby matches. When setting off, I always throw a couple of plastic PaB tubs in my rucksack on the off-chance there's something worth filling them with before the match. Try as I might, I can't imagine a couple of cardboard boxes outlasting my... enthusiasm... in the following hours.
I've kept and reused all of my plastic PAB cups, but their geometry makes for absolutely *atrocious* storage containers. Cylindrical containers simply do not tesselate as well as rectangular containers, especially if you're trying to also store rectangular containers on the same shelf. Add to that the lost space in the "stud" of the lids and the bases... I've kept mine to avoid the waste, but I find them less useful than almost any other plastic container I've ever seen - their *only* advantage is that I have them anyway. The minifigure blister packs, in particular, have been inconvenient and useless, so that's honestly the best part of this announcement for me.
I sincerely hope, though, that all Lego stores will use up their full stock of plastic cups before switching over to the new version, rather than discarding all that plastic just so they can *appear* environmentally friendly sooner. While some people in these comments seem fortunate enough to live in places that turn trash into energy, a large part of Lego's customer base does not.
By the looks of the minifig on the smallest box, this certainly is not his day...
Very bummed that they're getting rid of the PAB cups as they've been a key part of the identity of the PAB wall and by extension Lego stores as a whole. Thankfully, since they've been using the same cup molds for decades, it's hardly a difficulty to get some on the secondhand market if you go out of your way for it, but this really does feel like a bit of "Lego magic" going away. The ease of optimizing space and the environmental friendliness of the new boxes are definitely worthwhile, they just don't feel as special. Maybe they can spice up the prints on the boxes from time to time to add some variety or promote upcoming product launches, like a Happy Meal box. You have a blank canvas in the form of a cardboard box, they can make them more interesting than these starting designs.
Nice designs!
Now if we could just get more paper bags in sets. I’ve only had them in a couple so far.
Is the minifig box segmented for the 3 minifigs, or empty?
@Space_1979 said:
" @Pavell said:
"Easier to fill, easier to carry, easier to store, easier to recycle. Hoping they'll turn up in Brum soon"
I broadly agree with you, but it's the “easier to carry” bit I'm not sure about. I live in Belfast, so the nearest LEGO shops to me are in Dublin and Glasgow, places which I visit most often for rugby matches. When setting off, I always throw a couple of plastic PaB tubs in my rucksack on the off-chance there's something worth filling them with before the match. Try as I might, I can't imagine a couple of cardboard boxes outlasting my... enthusiasm... in the following hours."
I can see that point. I'm assuming I'll prefer rectangular tubs as easier to stack in my backpack - and more comfortable than something more or less cylindrical rolling around in there and getting displaced. But perhaps you will be right
The cups were fun but like others have said the space at the bottom & in the stud on top weren't easy to fill well. Also the angled sides result in the need to get creative when trying to fill to maximum capacity. No matter how hard I bang the cups, shake them or try to creatively stack parts of different sizes & shapes there always seems to be more empty space than I would like that I can't get filled in. Also as mentioned for storage purposes again the angled walls cause a lot of wasted storage space. Had they been an actual cylinder they would have been a bit more useful in my opinion.
Putting aside the plastic vs cardboard debates, I like this change for one simple reason:
Most Lego pieces are square. The new box is square.
I have actively avoided using in-store pick a brick for over a decade now, solely because it was always such a pain trying to efficiently pack a bunch of square pieces into a round cylinder with molded indentations and an inconsistent radius.
Seeing these boxes makes me want to actually use pick-a-brick again.
@MrBob said:
"Putting aside the plastic vs cardboard debates, I like this change for one simple reason:
Most Lego pieces are square. The new box is square.
I have actively avoided using in-store pick a brick for over a decade now, solely because it was always such a pain trying to efficiently pack a bunch of square pieces into a round cylinder with molded indentations and an inconsistent radius.
Seeing these boxes makes me want to actually use pick-a-brick again."
Have you ever filled a cup, then checked the prices for those parts on BnP? $15.99 for a cup with some wasted space is still a very good deal.
@Wrecknbuild said:
"
I agree (obviously) that plastic litter and microplastics are a serious problem, but that's not the same as plastic being the problem. The plastic cylindrical containers are not the items that are carelessly thrown away. Plastic used for disposable stuff is a big problem, and human behaviour is the largest problem there is."
I definitely agree with you there, but since human behaviour is such an essential factor when it comes to environmental issues, it's best to minimize the use of plastic in general. When there's no clear need for plastic items and they can be replaced with better, cleaner alternatives, that's the best way to go.
I know LEGO fans keep on to their PAB containers (because they essentially paid for it and they come in handy when going to LEGO stores frequently), but at some point, decades into the future, those too will become trash. Luckily, there are developments in biodegradable plastics, made from corn or plants, but those alternatives do still involve getting raw materials from one part of the world (corn from the US) to the other (factory in China), while cardboard can be made virtually anywhere.
Less = less in this scenario, so that can't be a bad thing. I never bought anything at the pab wall and that might be even beter...
I often reused my PAB cups, both in store when filling and at home when sorting and also as pencil tubs and similar on my desk.
It is a little weird that the efficiency of containers being square edged means that more plastic can be put into them than if they were a different shape, but of course the contents are "good" plastic used for building rather than "bad" used for packaging and storage.
for a packing efficiency side, I reckon those lids could be bowed upwards a little and still be able to shut the box, which is all that matters.
As for the minifigure boxes, I wonder if this will lead to slower check-outs, as someone will need to count out the parts if they are in a box. That is relatively easy to see in the bubble / clam shell type clear packaging as the figures are separated in the sections but in the boxes, they will need to open them and check. That is not so bad if the figures are built, but not if you have left them in parts.
@MrBob:
If the parts are small enough (say, 1x1 tiles), filling a small cup for $15.99 might still qualify as a good deal, but filling a large for that price is a steal.
I agree with the principle of using cardboard, but I also agree that they won't last as long and won't be reused (much).
What is more convenient is the rectangular shape which will be easier to pack.
I can get 141x Brick 2x4's into a large plastic tub without any stretching - I believe I could get 149 bricks into one of those large boxes by mixing orientation of the packing - Pack the base with bricks on their side - 4 studs high, and then upright bricks 2 tall!
I aim for 167 2x4s in a tub - plus other assorted 1x1 filler. Although by the end of it, my lid is only just about touching the tub.
My local store manager told me they wouldn't be switching to the boxes till all the plastic tubs were gone. He reckoned they had enough tubs to see out the year.
It will be a shame to lose the fun of filling the stud in the lid, then inverting it onto an already overflowing cup without spilling anything.
@TheBigLegoski
There are several reasons why one might prefer paper and cardboard solutions over plastic.
Resource scarcity:
Petroleum sources are (relative to production rates) non-renewable, meaning we will eventually run out. Managed forestry is a renewable, sustainable approach to producing materials. (when done properly, as LEGO's sources are certified to do)
Energy use:
Untreated paper and carboard generally have a smaller production carbon footprint than many plastics, because there are fewer and less intensive production steps required.
Production chemical waste:
The process of making plastics involves the use of a number of additional chemicals in the processing of raw petroleum into the product (specifics depend on the type of plastic). Even when plastics are derived from plants, there are often a lot of other chemicals required in the process of transforming those plants into useful (chemical) building blocks. This is also the case for many types of paper, but unbleached, untreated paper is type that uses the fewest harsh chemicals. These chemicals represent another waste stream, and can lead to environmental contamination issues. The only slight step back here is the use of dyes on the boxes, it would be interesting to know whether they've done their homework on the types of dye they use, and their relative impacts on the environment - some are friendlier than others.
Recyclability:
While many polymers are recyclable, (You are correct that ABS is) they can only practically be recycled a certain number of times, and a large quantity of consumer recyclables are actually landfilled due to contamination or capacity issues at recycling plants - where I am in NZ, which is considered an environmentally conscious country, about 30% of what we put in our recycling bins actually gets recycled. Paper (especially untreated paper) is far easier to recycle, and can be recycled a greater number of times before the products lose their mechanical properties like strength. As others have noted, it also biodegrades, so once you reach the limit for the number of recycling events, it can be safely returned to the environment.
End of life outcomes:
As you've noted, plastic tubs last longer, and are therefore more suitable for re-use. I also agree that the knob on top of these tubs makes them nice and stackable, and their clear nature helps to see the parts. These boxes are much less likely to be reused, which is a downside, but they're just about the lowest impact waste possible without making them food-based. As for the inherently single-use paper bags replacing plastic bags, this is an obvious win, and I'm confused about why this aspect is beyond you. The number of people who keep the plastic bags would be low, and those who do to repack the set into will still be able to do this with the paper bags - in fact they now stand upright, which potentially makes them more reusable. All of these types of packaging will eventually end up out in the environment, even if you continue reusing them your whole life, some descendant will eventually toss them out. Therefore it is relevant to consider how they degrade. Plastics take a very long time to degrade compared to unbleached, untreated paper.
To your point about the hypocrisy of selling a plastic product in paper and cardboard packaging, any step towards less plastic waste is still an improvement. A business like LEGO is never going to say "In the interests of the environment, we are just going to shut down", which is why they're seeking alternative sources of material to make their bricks (Trying to reduce the first three impacts I mentioned above). The plastic bricks are generally kept longer than the packaging, handed down generations or resold/gifted, meaning they stay out of the waste stream for likely longer than the packaging. It is better that they address issues with the things they *can* stop making out of plastic than do nothing just because they're being polluting in other parts of their business too.
@Ridgeheart said:
"They're pretty, they're sustainable, they're easier to fill AND to store, what's not to like?
I thumb my nose at the "BRING BACK THE CUPS OR WE RIOT"-crowd. There's a very simple solution to your problem: get over it."
These boxes will get soggy with their tears.
Kids already had problems with propperly use space in previous cups, I wonder how this will roll.
Few times I said to parent that kid can FILL cup to the brim becaue they had no idea they can do that.
BTW You can still use the cups according to employees.
@CCC said:
"It will be a shame to lose the fun of filling the stud in the lid, then inverting it onto an already overflowing cup without spilling anything."
I just built a little mound at the top, set the lid on, and did my best bartender impression to get the parts to settle upwards into the cavity.
@Batcave:
All the other reasons aside, I don’t know if the “chemical waste” one flies in this situation. From everything I’ve heard, paper mills use staggering amounts of nasty chemicals (“archival” paper needs to be impregnated with a base to counteract the acid that’s normally present in finished paper, as well as the trace amounts secreted through our skin). Yeah, there’s a difference in how much one product uses vs another, but without producing hard numbers on these cardboard boxes vs the old cups, it’s more conjecture than anything else.
@chrisaw said:
"Nice designs!
Now if we could just get more paper bags in sets. I’ve only had them in a couple so far.
Is the minifig box segmented for the 3 minifigs, or empty?"
Empty.
Environmentally, I feel like the best solution would be a bring your own tub and charge by weight kinda deal.
Of course they could provide these cardboard boxes for those who didn't bring one, but that would be sure to save on resources.
Is my store the only one that will allow you to tape on the lid? You can actually fit a lot more bricks in an extra layer on the top of the cup.
No overflow is possible here, so you'll definitely lose more value beside from the small reduction in internal volume.
I do believe some square pieces will be a lot easier to fit into this square design, so that's a plus...
@ARSLOCK said:
"Is my store the only one that will allow you to tape on the lid? You can actually fit a lot more bricks in an extra layer on the top of the cup.
No overflow is possible here, so you'll definitely lose more value beside from the small reduction in internal volume.
I do believe some square pieces will be a lot easier to fit into this square design, so that's a plus..."
My store in Missouri does the tape-thing too.
@ARSLOCK:
The LEGO Store in Michigan (because we somehow only have one) tapes down all lids.
I used this box in the Bluewater Lego store months ago, but I think these boxes are very fragile and not strong, can not bear a lot of bricks, and it is not as good-looking as a case when it is filled with minifigures. I don't like it, I prefer PAB cups
I'm wondering if the Discovery Center stores will have these soon.
We have been using the PAB cups to water our potted flowers for many years! But still these boxes make SO much more sense to me, despite them having a shorter life cycle, the biggest benefit is that I can get my square bricks in them better when buying, and even perhaps storing them this way at home because the bricks are much easier to access in these boxes than they were in a tall cup. I think these are long overdue! Very nice design, and I love the practicality of them in every way!
Awesome decision.
I remember filling up a pick a brick cardboard box back in 2013 as part of a free promotion offer when spending over x amount.
Kind of like the one in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zconJQWCgQY&ab_channel=22LEGO22
As it is cardboard it must save the lego group a lot of money considering its more sustainable than the plastic PAB containers.
I really hope they will still accept the plastic cups. Would kind of go against the eco-friendly aspects of this initiative if they made every PAB cup obsolete overnight.