Paper bags are here at last!
Posted by Huw,
It's not the first time I've written an article with that headline, I did so back in October 2022, but back then it turned out that it was a false alarm.
However, as seen in benbacardi's review of 31148 Retro Roller Skate published earlier today, paper bags inside boxes are now starting to appear at last: we've also found them in some of our other 2024 review sets, including Dreamzzz and Technic as well as Creator.
In this article I have a look at those that I've encountered, and introduce a new feature that I think may be useful, particularly in years to come.
It seems that we are still in an interim phase, though, with some sets having them and others not, and in those that do, some have plastic bags inside paper ones, while others have paper bags inside.
My review copy of 42167 Mack LR Electric Garbage Truck has both. Note how the bags here are printed with a Technic piece pattern, whereas the Creator set had a System piece pattern. I'm sure other variants will come to light.
They are easier to open than plastic ones, simply by tearing, and the large bags can be stood upright, thanks to clever design, as shown in benbacardi's review.
In addition to the large number identifying the bag they, like everything LEGO produces, have a 7-digit number on them which is unique to the bag and its contents.
I therefore thought it might be useful to record these in the database to enable them to be identified should you come across a bag in the future, and you're not sure which set it came from.
So, on the set details page there is a new tab, Bags, which lists the bags in each set, both the main large bags and those inside them.
We don't get sent or buy every set, so the only way we will get anywhere near a complete list is if the data is crowdsourced, and that's where you come in. There are input boxes below to enable you, or anyone else who's logged in, to add bag details.
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We don't yet know whether sets destined for the North American market have different numbers to elsewhere, but it's likely that they might change over time, if and when minor changes are made to the set over its production lifecycle. The list is therefore not intended to show what should be in the box, but what could be in it.
The numbers are included in the search suggestion drop-down list for the use case I describe above: to enable them to be identified should you come across a bag in the future, and you're not sure where it came from.
I'm not yet sure how useful this will be, but it will only be so if people enter the data, so if you come across a set with bags in it, please do so!
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87 comments on this article
It’s going to feel weird when I shake a present for my birthday or Christmas now. I’ve gotten too used to the definitive sound of the Lego plastic bags and pieces. Honestly that’s one of my favorite sounds ever.
Will do!
Do the little bags within the larger bags also stand on their own?
@Endermen39 said:
"It’s going to feel weird when I shake a present for my birthday or Christmas now. I’ve gotten too used to the definitive sound of the Lego plastic bags and pieces. Honestly that’s one of my favorite sounds ever."
I imagine the pieces will still rattle the same inside the bags. The paper might produce a different crinkling sound, but it should still have the same effect.
Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs.
Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight.
@Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
All of the sets I’ve gotten this year except 21343 Viking Village have had the stupid thumb tabs. Honestly I just push one thumb tab and open the box normally.
If you look at my collection every set that I got that was released in 2022-2023 are the sets that I got this year.
https://brickset.com/sets/ownedby-Endermen39
How many people need to confirm the bag ids before the are added as the "official" version of the database? Just to understand the human input error mechanism.
@Endermen39 said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
All of the sets I’ve gotten this year except 21343 Viking Village have had the stupid thumb tabs. Honestly I just push one thumb tab and open the box normally.
If you look at my collection every set that I got that was released in 2022-2023 are the sets that I got this year.
https://brickset.com/sets/ownedby-Endermen39 "
Oh, well for me it's the opposite. Only two of the sets i got 2022-2023 were sealed by a thumb tab that was 76958 and 76945. Must be because of different countries i guess?
@R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
This is not correct - at least not in most markets (rules in various countries may obviously vary). At last year's Fan Media Days we were told that there are limits to how much (or, rather, how little) plastic paper waste can contain and still be considered paper, and safely be thrown in the paper waste for recycling. LEGO's new paper bags, we were told, are well within these limits.
I already found paperbags in my new legosetboxes but was surprised to find small plasticbags inside for the small parts.
I’m fine with the paper bags for sets but for Minifigure mystery pack the shouldn’t have gotten rid of the plastic bags. Feeling them out was my favorite part.
@Maxbricks14 said:
" @Endermen39 said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
All of the sets I’ve gotten this year except 21343 Viking Village have had the stupid thumb tabs. Honestly I just push one thumb tab and open the box normally.
If you look at my collection every set that I got that was released in 2022-2023 are the sets that I got this year.
https://brickset.com/sets/ownedby-Endermen39 "
Oh, well for me it's the opposite. Only two of the sets i got 2022-2023 were sealed by a thumb tab that was 76958 and 76945. Must be because of different countries i guess?"
It could also be some specific sets too. I don’t have any of your newer sets and you don’t have any of mine. The newest set that we both have is the Ambulance Plane which was released in 2016.
@Ridgeheart said:
"I wonder how many staunch defenders of plastic bags are now champing at the bit to declare that LEGO IS OVER, and that they will NEVER BUY ANOTHER SET AGAIN unless TLG returns to wrapping their plastic in plastic.
I've got some older sets in my backlog. I wonder if I could sell those plastic bags to these brave Defenders of Tradition. You guys ready to start bidding on my empties?"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rj94yjA9YRE
I'm also stunned that someone (or a whole team probably) actually got hired to design the new graphics on the bags that will end up in the garbage bin right away? Why do they need to be printed with icons in the first place and the plastic ones didn't? To add more costs to an already overpriced product? And why are they white instead of brown recycled cellulose? Maybe because TLG tested it and the material would be even more prone to rip and need even thicker plastic coating? Talk about useless things made by TLG, but putting graphics on logistic waste is probably among the top 5. And we finance all of this nonsense with our hard earned wages.
Even if that 'paper' is within limits, I second every items brought by ROSch. For me the most important one being: box sizes. To me the box should be 90% full - i.e. the maximum they can achieve while it is still not too expensive to get a machine to do it properly. They are already getting smaller but I believe they could do much better.
Reading this article,my main complaint would be: instead of spending innumerable amount of money on research to develop a 'paper' bag that can stand upward, why not save that money and pass it on to customers in the form of reasonably priced toys.
Lego could also use the money they save from that 'not that useful' R&D and hire good programmers to fix their website which always seem to crash whenever there is a good promotion going.
We can't fault them for trying but usually there must be some sort of cost/benefit analysis. In the current economic environment, Lego should focus on reducing costs to a minimum and pass it along - I think.
@R0Sch said:
"I'm also stunned that someone (or a whole team probably) actually got hired to design the new graphics on the bags that will end up in the garbage bin right away? Why do they need to be printed with icons in the first place and the plastic ones didn't? "
They are being printed with numbers and identifiers anyway so they might as well be.
@woosterlegos said:
"Do the little bags within the larger bags also stand on their own?"
No
@Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
I use a knife usually
We have saved the world, great.
Replacing easily recyclable plastic bag by so called paper one with inner plastic coating and these cannot be recycled. We have also saved the world by replacing metal wheel axles by plastic ones and also by hauling 1/3 brick and 2/3 air filled Lego boxes aroud the world, oh wait...
Why do the bags need to stand up? LEGO is not like chips or sweets, where you take individual pieces out one by one and dont want to spill the rest. You dump the lot on a tray, so the bag standing up seems pretty pointless.
Certainly took them a while. They arrive at least a decade too late imo.
Oh, finally! But i will definitely miss the attractive sound of plastic bags when I'm shaking the box....
@R0Sch said:
"I'm also stunned that someone (or a whole team probably) actually got hired to design the new graphics on the bags that will end up in the garbage bin right away? Why do they need to be printed with icons in the first place and the plastic ones didn't? To add more costs to an already overpriced product? And why are they white instead of brown recycled cellulose? Maybe because TLG tested it and the material would be even more prone to rip and need even thicker plastic coating? Talk about useless things made by TLG, but putting graphics on logistic waste is probably among the top 5. And we finance all of this nonsense with our hard earned wages."
Buying LEGO sets is optional, you know? Also, your claim about the plastic bags not being printed is incorrect. You should know if you actually ever build a LEGO set.
@Huw Recording the bag numbers is a nice feature. It's nice to see Brickset continue to grow and improve. Thank you.
"Note how the bags here are printed with a Technic piece pattern, whereas the Creator set had a System piece pattern. I'm sure other variants will come to light."
I'm sure Jack Stone will be covered in rocks like the ones Charlie Brown gets when trick-or-treating.
@HOBBES:
When's the last time their site has crashed? 2021?
I never remember to check, but don't the plastic bags have IDs printed on them too?
Looks like this might be saying farewell to scissors. I'd call that a positive.
@Huw, any official word on the recyclability of these new paper bags, just to put the accusations of 'greenwashing' to rest? Seems like this is an improvement to me, as the plastic bags aren't accepted for recycling where I live.
@CCC said:
"Why do the bags need to stand up? LEGO is not like chips or sweets, where you take individual pieces out one by one and dont want to spill the rest. You dump the lot on a tray, so the bag standing up seems pretty pointless."
It's my understanding that the base design of the bags is more about pieces not getting stuck in the corners and lost/discarded than about the bags being able to stand up.
@hazel77
Just in case you call me a liar again. This is taken directly from lego.com/recycling. They are also calling them deliberately "paper-based".
"Bags in LEGO boxes
We are in the process of switching from single-use plastic to paper-based bags. While our boxes currently still feature bags made from polypropylene (PP) or low-density polyethylene (LDPE), we will be gradually replacing them with bags made from >95% paper with a thin plastic coating on the inside, which enables sealing of the bags and ensures that they are fit-for-purpose to hold LEGO® and LEGO DUPLO® bricks.
Our new paper-based bags are made with paper from Forest Stewardship Council® certified forests and FSC-controlled wood and have been verified as recyclable in the European Union, United States and Canada.
Although recyclable through paper recycling systems in many places, we encourage people to check with their local authorities for information on how to correctly dispose of our paper-based bags."
In other words, just because you are ALLOWED to throw them in the paper bin doesn't mean they CAN or WILL be recycled everywhere. And what happens outside the EU, USA and Canada or where sorting facilities don't use the most high tech equipment? That's right, they burn them for energy because it costs more to separate the paper from the plastic than it would be worth. But minor details like this will not be mentioned behind closed doors at Billund HQ at their publicity shows.
@ToysFromTheAttic
I never said plastic bags are not printed but that they don't use and need fancy graphics with different bricks. They only contain the number, production codes and material recycling information. And I know this because I probably bought and built more sets in the last 10 years than you will in a lifetime. But thanks Captain Obvious for telling me that buying LEGO is optional. *mic drop*
Finally! I’ve only had them in the Jurassic Park 2023 sets so far, containing dinosaur parts, so I’m glad to see the rollout is finally happening.
From where I stand, paper bags needed to not just match the use of plastic bags but surpass them. Yes I know, being environmentally-minded is all the rage right now for those who simply must shout to the world to know just how morally righteous they are, but in all seriousness, the plastic bags had their issues that we've just put up with. With perspective, they are minor issues, sure, but issues all the same. They are difficult to compress when thrown away, they had limited identification, they pick up static easily and can cling to each other or to smaller pieces, etc. etc.
I like these paper designs, especially with clear identification codes. This will be a fantastic feature for tracking set features or authenticity of parts, and the standing feature seems quite useful. Plus it seems far less likely that the compression or static issues will continue going forward.
I've yet to open up a set with the new bags but I'm quite optimistic - so far, the design seems promising and will have far more benefits that shallow online grandstanding. Here's to a promising path forward.
@hazel77 said:
" @R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
This is not correct - at least not in most markets (rules in various countries may obviously vary). At last year's Fan Media Days we were told that there are limits to how much (or, rather, how little) plastic paper waste can contain and still be considered paper, and safely be thrown in the paper waste for recycling. LEGO's new paper bags, we were told, are well within these limits."
Not to mention, contrary to @R0Sch, the plastic bags generally aren't recyclable - film bag recycling usually can only handle type 4 plastics, not type 5 (the kind used by the LEGO bags).
What lego should do to help the environment is don't even have boxes.
When someone wants a set in store, just give them all the elements from a set loose.
Just give it to them, if they have a bag, dump it into the customer's bag. Or into their bare hands. That'll help the environment. Save a lot of trees.
And when you mail it to the customers, use like old newspaper and wrap it, tie with twine, string.
That's should help too.
Or even better, since the entire company makes toys out of plastic. Just shut it down totally. That would help the environment majorly.
@R0Sch said:
"I'm also stunned that someone (or a whole team probably) actually got hired to design the new graphics on the bags that will end up in the garbage bin right away? Why do they need to be printed with icons in the first place and the plastic ones didn't?"
Graphic Designer here. Some reasons they're printed are because it adds value, heightens enjoyment, and promotes resonance with different themes. Graphic Design is a huge part of the product and the LEGO brand, so the icons don't seem out of place to me.
@Endermen39 said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
" @Endermen39 said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
All of the sets I’ve gotten this year except 21343 Viking Village have had the stupid thumb tabs. Honestly I just push one thumb tab and open the box normally.
If you look at my collection every set that I got that was released in 2022-2023 are the sets that I got this year.
https://brickset.com/sets/ownedby-Endermen39 "
Oh, well for me it's the opposite. Only two of the sets i got 2022-2023 were sealed by a thumb tab that was 76958 and 76945. Must be because of different countries i guess?"
It could also be some specific sets too. I don’t have any of your newer sets and you don’t have any of mine. The newest set that we both have is the Ambulance Plane which was released in 2016."
I don't think that is the case. When i go into stores and get to the Lego aisle i often look at most of the sets and about 95% of them are sealed by tape. The ones sealed by thumb-tab are mainly the box size of a $20USD or $30NZD set.
@Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
Hot take: I don't mind the thumb tabs at all. The box doesn't matter to me, just the set.
@AverageChimaEnjoyer said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
Hot take: I don't mind the thumb tabs at all. The box doesn't matter to me, just the set."
Normally the thumb tabs don’t ruin the box either. It’s just annoying to open the box. I’ve only recently started collecting my Lego boxes. I’ve really only had one problem with it. The box of 75339 Death Star Trash Compactor Diorama always, no matter where I go, has the box messed up at Walmart. I went to California this summer to visit family and all of the Lego was behind glass, every box was in near perfect condition, then there was 75339, the box was squished and it looked like some one took a full knife to the box. Then I go back home to Mississippi to get another set at my local Walmart, no sets behind glass, but 75339 had the theft protection thing wrapped around it way too tightly and the box was even more damaged then the one I got in California.
@R0Sch: Wow. Some serious acid coming from you today! If countering your opinions with LEGOs official statements on the matter qualifies as me calling you a liar, then I guess I don't have anything to add to the discussion (it's not a discussion anymore, really).
@PurpleDave said:
[[[[Note how the bags here are printed with a Technic piece pattern, whereas the Creator set had a System piece pattern. I'm sure other variants will come to light.]]
I'm sure Jack Stone will be covered in rocks like the ones Charlie Brown gets when trick-or-treating.
@HOBBES:
When's the last time their site has crashed? 2021?]]
Lego website crashed 3 minutes into May Star Wars Promo drop. That would be early May 2023!!!
One advantage of paper bags not mentioned here or indeed anywhere relates to sunlight.
One shouldn't expose LEGO to sunlight: it catalyses the breakdown and therefore discolouration of ABS, the plastic of which most LEGO pieces are made. Paper bags block sunlight to a much greater degree than the transparent plastic ones. So if, like me, you (re-)use bags outside of boxes for storage or sorting, paper is better.
It's so easy to open the plastic bag -- even a caveman can do it. I never had any trouble opening the plastic bags.
I went to my Lego store yesterday, bringing what I always do, a bag containing 3 PAB cups, 2 BAM packages, and a very large Lego bag. I've been doing this for about 5 years.
I was told I could no longer reuse my BAM packages because they needed me to get a new one for inventory purposes.
I was also told that they wouldn't ALLOW the reuse of plastic PAB cups within a couple months after they had exhausted their supply of plastic PAB cups. (They will be permitting reuse of paper PAB boxes, but aren't sure if there'll be a discount).
Mother Earth let out a low moan...
*Sniff, sniff* I read arguments.
@Zander said:
"One advantage of paper bags not mentioned here or indeed anywhere relates to sunlight.
One shouldn't expose LEGO to sunlight: it catalyses the breakdown and therefore discolouration of ABS, the plastic of which most LEGO pieces are made. Paper bags block sunlight to a much greater degree than the transparent plastic ones. So if, like me, you (re-)use bags outside of boxes for storage or sorting, paper is better. "
Yeah that does seem like a great advantage. I’ve also noticed that the paper bags have the little cut out thing. If your like me and you end up tearing the plastic bags almost in half and the parts spray out of the bag occasionally then the paper bags seem like a lot more calmer approach too.
@Endermen39 said:
" @AverageChimaEnjoyer said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
Hot take: I don't mind the thumb tabs at all. The box doesn't matter to me, just the set."
Normally the thumb tabs don’t ruin the box either. It’s just annoying to open the box. I’ve only recently started collecting my Lego boxes. I’ve really only had one problem with it. The box of 75339 Death Star Trash Compactor Diorama always, no matter where I go, has the box messed up at Walmart. I went to California this summer to visit family and all of the Lego was behind glass, every box was in near perfect condition, then there was 75339, the box was squished and it looked like some one took a full knife to the box. Then I go back home to Mississippi to get another set at my local Walmart, no sets behind glass, but 75339 had the theft protection thing wrapped around it way too tightly and the box was even more damaged then the one I got in California."
Well i do care about the boxes AND the set because i like to have the whole set complete with the box, set, minifigures, instructions, empty sticker sheet and spare parts. as for Endermen39 iv'e never been into a store where Lego was behind glass, as for the theft protection thing i usually look behind the other sets at the back of the shelf to find one without one around it. But recently when i bought 77015 there was a big tear at the back of the box, so i asked for a better one but that was the only copy they had in store so i got a 10% discount on the set.
I had paper bags in 77012 Fighter Plane Chase. I liked them.
this is random but i feel like Lego would get way more money if they did military models like cf-18 hornets and other jets. These realistic models r alot more intriguing and interesting than unrealistic space ships in things like star wars. I know lego will never do this but i would be way more interested and by the amount of miliatry mocs there are im sure there is a huge fanbase that would love this.
just saying..............
@R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
idk about the recycling bit but I 100% agree with the bit about the instructions and box size. @Huw you get sets for reviews all the time, it'd be great if that feedback made it to the relevant parties. There's few things more annoying about Lego than sets having up to 6 or sometimes even more instruction booklets (looking for example at this year's Rebel Base) when 1 would suffice. 2 should be the maximum if there's 2 cars or starfighters or whatever.
Hallelujah! The planet is saved!
I just bought and built the Speed Champions Ferrari 512 M(76906) yesterday, and it had paper bags. That’s a set from March 2022 so it’s not just new sets that are getting paper bags.
This works fine for smaller sets, but I’m skeptical in regards to the larger 1500+ pieces sets because in my head they will probably end up needing bigger boxes, making them more expensive to ship. The paper bags are bigger *and* heavier. I’d love to be proven wrong though!
@Reventon said:
"Hallelujah! The planet is saved!"
YAY now we get to kill the trees!
I have a perfect solution to this plastic waste problem: 100% digital building.
No more need for oversized boxes.
No more need for one-use plastic or paper bags.
No more need for multiple instruction booklets or the added weight extra pages from over-simplified instructions incur.
No more need to physically ship a product, reducing transportation time/cost/logistics.
No more pollution/environmental impact via manufacturing and supplying a physical product.
No more fretting about lack of space to store/build/display physical sets.
Really happy about this change!
Unlike many of the commenters here, I'm not being facetious - change doesn't scare me, sorry for all those trying to make single use plastic sound fantastic - just no.
And the crowd goes mild....
@Judgeguy said:
"I had paper bags in 77012 Fighter Plane Chase. I liked them."
Really? i didn't. When did you get your one? i got mine as soon as it came out.
God, some of these comments are depressing. Gonna just try to ignore them because a lot of them seem misinformed at best and genuinely nasty at worst. Not everything is a conspiracy or "greenwashing" or whatever other excuse people come up with to get angry about change.
I'm looking forward to these bags, since my local recycling CAN'T take plastic bags but CAN take lightly coated paper (like the glossy postcards/mailers that tend to come as junk mail during election season). I really like the graphic design and labeling of the new bags, which I imagine is both to help with some basic identification (since you can no longer see the parts inside) and just to make something that some people might consider new or different nicer to look at. In any case, it's not like the graphic design for already printed bags will break the bank.
I don't know whether I'll be getting my hands on some of the sets with bags as soon as reviewers do, though, since review copies of sets are generally European from my experience and I've heard the rollout will be starting there and in Asia. Hopefully it doesn't take too long before they reach our shores here in North America!
Also, regarding the addition of bag IDs on Brickset... will there be a way to verify/report errors? I know that bags may change over time so there could be a large number of IDs for a given set over its lifespan, but I could foresee actual errors creeping in if somebody, say, mistypes a bag number for one set with a number that ends up actually used for a completely different bag in a completely different set.
At least in Germany these paper bags are not allowed for recycling because of the coating. Its probably not worse than recycling the plastic bags but also not better in terms of environmental effects especially because they need more material for the bags and more energy to produce them and apply the coating.
The biggest "environmental" issue I find with the packaging is simply the ridiculously over-sized boxes. I've been going through the process of re-bagging and boxing my sets, and the common factor is that every box is at least three times the volume it needs to be. Is LEGO packaging designed by someone at Amazon?
@HOBBES:
Hmm, I must have missed that midnight launch. Most that I’ve done in the past two years, I’ve either gotten in right away and been fine, or I get queued and just have to wait a few minutes to get in and I’m fine. The last crash I personally experienced was probably the fifth coin, but the queueing system was never expanded to include the VIP Rewards Center.
Okay, so next question. How many times in the past year have you experienced a full-on system crash where you get shunted to a “site is broken” page on the actual online store (so excluding any issues on the VIP Rewards Center)? The online store used to have problems every first of the month, plus every special launch event, and they’ve legitimately beefed up their system so most of that doesn’t happen anymore. The queueing system, while annoying to run into, does keep the site functional, if they don’t forget to turn it on. That is still a stupid failure point, since midnight launches are always automated these days, and by the time any flesh-and-blood person will ever know there was a problem, all the orders are in and shoppers have gone to bed, with the few stragglers experiencing normal functionality of the site.
@legoluver777:
The military stuff is a non-starter. It’s against company policy, and they aren’t hurting for sales (sometime in the past 25 years they toppled Hasbro off the throne for Biggest Toy Manufacturer, and only lost it to Mattel when they bought one of TLG’s direct competitors).
As for trees, paper companies like Georgia Pacific curate their own forests, and GP even bred a fast-growth tree that reaches harvestable size in a few short years, since all they’re doing is turning them into wood pulp for paper.
@R0Sch said:
" @hazel77
Just in case you call me a liar again. This is taken directly from lego.com/recycling. They are also calling them deliberately "paper-based".
"Bags in LEGO boxes
We are in the process of switching from single-use plastic to paper-based bags. While our boxes currently still feature bags made from polypropylene (PP) or low-density polyethylene (LDPE), we will be gradually replacing them with bags made from >95% paper with a thin plastic coating on the inside, which enables sealing of the bags and ensures that they are fit-for-purpose to hold LEGO® and LEGO DUPLO® bricks.
Our new paper-based bags are made with paper from Forest Stewardship Council® certified forests and FSC-controlled wood and have been verified as recyclable in the European Union, United States and Canada.
Although recyclable through paper recycling systems in many places, we encourage people to check with their local authorities for information on how to correctly dispose of our paper-based bags."
In other words, just because you are ALLOWED to throw them in the paper bin doesn't mean they CAN or WILL be recycled everywhere. And what happens outside the EU, USA and Canada or where sorting facilities don't use the most high tech equipment? That's right, they burn them for energy because it costs more to separate the paper from the plastic than it would be worth. But minor details like this will not be mentioned behind closed doors at Billund HQ at their publicity shows.
@ToysFromTheAttic
I never said plastic bags are not printed but that they don't use and need fancy graphics with different bricks. They only contain the number, production codes and material recycling information. And I know this because I probably bought and built more sets in the last 10 years than you will in a lifetime. But thanks Captain Obvious for telling me that buying LEGO is optional. *mic drop*"
its a paper bag instead of a plastic one, and yes a slight plastic coating and paper, vs a large amount of plastic used for a bag, which some of the same recycling policies may or may not recycle the plastic bags either BUT less plastic is used, less plastic that needs to be manufactured from a barrel of oil, ergo better, both for cost for the company and the environment in general. Is it perfect? No, but where it LEGO's statement does it say it is?
@Lyichir said:
"God, some of these comments are depressing. Gonna just try to ignore them because a lot of them seem misinformed at best and genuinely nasty at worst. Not everything is a conspiracy or "greenwashing" or whatever other excuse people come up with to get angry about change.
I'm looking forward to these bags, since my local recycling CAN'T take plastic bags but CAN take lightly coated paper (like the glossy postcards/mailers that tend to come as junk mail during election season). I really like the graphic design and labeling of the new bags, which I imagine is both to help with some basic identification (since you can no longer see the parts inside) and just to make something that some people might consider new or different nicer to look at. In any case, it's not like the graphic design for already printed bags will break the bank.
I don't know whether I'll be getting my hands on some of the sets with bags as soon as reviewers do, though, since review copies of sets are generally European from my experience and I've heard the rollout will be starting there and in Asia. Hopefully it doesn't take too long before they reach our shores here in North America!
Also, regarding the addition of bag IDs on Brickset... will there be a way to verify/report errors? I know that bags may change over time so there could be a large number of IDs for a given set over its lifespan, but I could foresee actual errors creeping in if somebody, say, mistypes a bag number for one set with a number that ends up actually used for a completely different bag in a completely different set."
Yeah. I see where you’re coming from. Honestly I’m indifferent about whether or not Lego is switching from plastic bags to paper or if they just ultimately decide to keep the plastic. In Mississippi we don’t have recycling which is nice because everything just ultimately ends up in the same place, compared to states like Oregon, which I have lived in before they are so picky about what does and doesn’t go in the recycling, it honestly was the most irritating thing ever. In the end, I’m probably just going to end up throwing away the bags anyway.
If only Lego decided to do this with CMFs instead of those boxes. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the plastic coating prevent the paper wearing down and tearing from people feeling the figure, which was most likely Lego’s reason with not switching over from plastic bags to paper bags.
joking, encase set boxes in protective case or something
boxes get damaged easily
joking, isn't lego made out plastic lol?..
at end world cockroaches playing lego
on good note... will not make as much noise opening bags, that plastic loud
And once again, I wonder what a particular comment section would look like if Brickset had a downvote function...
I enjoy these type discussions. It helps me challenge any of my preconceived notions and gives me additional threads to pull for further reading.
I do not believe I’ve encountered paper bags yet but I am definitely tired of trying to crumple the plastic bags, having pieces get left behind, and not being able to recycle. This all seems good to me.
But those CMF boxes….grrr….gotta get me a scale….lol
@Ridgeheart said:
" @Reventon said:
"Hallelujah! The planet is saved!"
According to some of your fellow Ozzies I spoke to yesterday, you guys saw a brisk 43 degrees Centrigrade during the height of winter. I figured you guys would be all for a brief respite from chainsawing through the branch we're all sitting on?"
I’m Aussie, and it did get over 40 degrees in some parts of Australia earlier this week - but it’s our SUMMER here (southern hemisphere, remember!), and 40+ Celsius is relatively common in summer!
Christmas is often spent at the beach, or at least partially outside!
What are y'all talking about re: thumb tabs? You're making them sound like a new development, but the only thing I can think of that fits the context is the perforated half-circles that you punch in to open some of the boxes, which go back at least to my childhood.
I'm stoked about having a bag inventory feature! It will come in handy when buying new but incomplete sets on the secondary market. I've bought a few sets new either incomplete or without the box. Knowing what things should look like was the key decider in making those purchases. I had feared that not being able to see bag contents would preclude this practice of mine. But thankfully, I may have a good reference in the future to help assist me. Thanks, Huw!
My son just got a UK version of 2022 set 21189-1 with all paper bags, including the small ones inside the bags. So they’re not just with new sets.
@Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
I thought the taped boxes _were_ the replacement for thumb tab boxes? They've been showing up more and more in recent years, including on cheaper sets. I always figured it was because four pieces of tape is less wasteful than lots of glue.
@R0Sch said:
" @ToysFromTheAttic
I never said plastic bags are not printed but that they don't use and need fancy graphics with different bricks. They only contain the number, production codes and material recycling information. And I know this because I probably bought and built more sets in the last 10 years than you will in a lifetime. But thanks Captain Obvious for telling me that buying LEGO is optional. *mic drop*"
You should probably reserve your mic drops for comments that are actually clever or funny. ;-)
Have fun complaining about the company all your 'hard earned money' goes to, while I try to catch up with you building LEGO sets.
I thought it odd that last years' employee set had paper bags, but this years' didn't
I've found them in 76257, honestly i don't really get the big deal around them, they are just bags.
@Endermen39:
The plastic coating is on the inside of the paper bag. This allows the bag to be impulse-sealed, as the plastic, which is already bonded to the paper, will also bond to itself when the right amount of heat is applied. The outside, still being made of paper, will get dirty with handling, will wear down with continuous handling, and could potentially even separate from the plastic layer or tear with rough handling.
@Andrusi:
Those are indeed the thumb tabs people are referring to (you press on the tab with your thumb to pop the seal). In the past, they were limited in use to smaller sets. The fear is that, to get rid of the plastic tape used to seal larger sets, they could switch to thumb tabs on all boxes, which creates problems for people who like to flatten and save their boxes.
@ickis:
In the case of numbered bags, as long as you can identify the set they came from, you could always go through the online building instructions to see which pieces are used during which range of steps. Of course, you’d still have issues in cases where more than one bag bears the same number (Bag 3 for large parts, Bag 3 for small parts).
@beige2 said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"Now that plastic bags are being phased out does that mean sets sealed with tape will also suffer the same fate? hopefully not because i hate it when sets are sealed by thumb tabs."
I use a knife usually"
I use a flamethrower to burn away the outer box.
Quick and easy solution :-)
@Endermen39 said:
" @Lyichir said:
"God, some of these comments are depressing. Gonna just try to ignore them because a lot of them seem misinformed at best and genuinely nasty at worst. Not everything is a conspiracy or "greenwashing" or whatever other excuse people come up with to get angry about change.
I'm looking forward to these bags, since my local recycling CAN'T take plastic bags but CAN take lightly coated paper (like the glossy postcards/mailers that tend to come as junk mail during election season). I really like the graphic design and labeling of the new bags, which I imagine is both to help with some basic identification (since you can no longer see the parts inside) and just to make something that some people might consider new or different nicer to look at. In any case, it's not like the graphic design for already printed bags will break the bank.
I don't know whether I'll be getting my hands on some of the sets with bags as soon as reviewers do, though, since review copies of sets are generally European from my experience and I've heard the rollout will be starting there and in Asia. Hopefully it doesn't take too long before they reach our shores here in North America!
Also, regarding the addition of bag IDs on Brickset... will there be a way to verify/report errors? I know that bags may change over time so there could be a large number of IDs for a given set over its lifespan, but I could foresee actual errors creeping in if somebody, say, mistypes a bag number for one set with a number that ends up actually used for a completely different bag in a completely different set."
Yeah. I see where you’re coming from. Honestly I’m indifferent about whether or not Lego is switching from plastic bags to paper or if they just ultimately decide to keep the plastic. In Mississippi we don’t have recycling which is nice because everything just ultimately ends up in the same place, compared to states like Oregon, which I have lived in before they are so picky about what does and doesn’t go in the recycling, it honestly was the most irritating thing ever. In the end, I’m probably just going to end up throwing away the bags anyway.
If only Lego decided to do this with CMFs instead of those boxes. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the plastic coating prevent the paper wearing down and tearing from people feeling the figure, which was most likely Lego’s reason with not switching over from plastic bags to paper bags."
The most irritating thing ever...maybe a little overreaction. Oregon provides a nice list with pictures of what is and isn't acceptable. Its not really that hard.
@neallyd2 said:
" @Endermen39 said:
" @Lyichir said:
"God, some of these comments are depressing. Gonna just try to ignore them because a lot of them seem misinformed at best and genuinely nasty at worst. Not everything is a conspiracy or "greenwashing" or whatever other excuse people come up with to get angry about change.
I'm looking forward to these bags, since my local recycling CAN'T take plastic bags but CAN take lightly coated paper (like the glossy postcards/mailers that tend to come as junk mail during election season). I really like the graphic design and labeling of the new bags, which I imagine is both to help with some basic identification (since you can no longer see the parts inside) and just to make something that some people might consider new or different nicer to look at. In any case, it's not like the graphic design for already printed bags will break the bank.
I don't know whether I'll be getting my hands on some of the sets with bags as soon as reviewers do, though, since review copies of sets are generally European from my experience and I've heard the rollout will be starting there and in Asia. Hopefully it doesn't take too long before they reach our shores here in North America!
Also, regarding the addition of bag IDs on Brickset... will there be a way to verify/report errors? I know that bags may change over time so there could be a large number of IDs for a given set over its lifespan, but I could foresee actual errors creeping in if somebody, say, mistypes a bag number for one set with a number that ends up actually used for a completely different bag in a completely different set."
Yeah. I see where you’re coming from. Honestly I’m indifferent about whether or not Lego is switching from plastic bags to paper or if they just ultimately decide to keep the plastic. In Mississippi we don’t have recycling which is nice because everything just ultimately ends up in the same place, compared to states like Oregon, which I have lived in before they are so picky about what does and doesn’t go in the recycling, it honestly was the most irritating thing ever. In the end, I’m probably just going to end up throwing away the bags anyway.
If only Lego decided to do this with CMFs instead of those boxes. Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the plastic coating prevent the paper wearing down and tearing from people feeling the figure, which was most likely Lego’s reason with not switching over from plastic bags to paper bags."
The most irritating thing ever...maybe a little overreaction. Oregon provides a nice list with pictures of what is and isn't acceptable. Its not really that hard. "
It might have been stricter in Ashland than the rest of Oregon. If there was one small thing that didn’t belong in the recycling then they would refuse to take the recycling.
I honestly don’t even think they had a list of pictures it was just a list. This was back in 2014-2017
To really be environmental friendly, just consider to: Stop Buying These Plastic Bricks. The plastic produced here is meant for entertainment purpose only and nothing else. Of course, a little bit is okay, but not excessively.
Good grief... "paper bags" or "paper-based bags," the whole point is REDUCING the amount of single-use plastic and this move achieves that goal. Yes, it will likely increase the number of trees needed, but unlike crude oil, trees are able to be regrown (while also helping convert greenhouse gas emissions as they grow).
Like several others, I live in an area that doesn't take the current bags with the rest of our recycling.
Personally, I'm hoping the new bags also reduce the amount of noise made when trying to open the bags.
I'm interested in how well these bags stand up to wear and tear, because I keep mine for dismantling.
The thumb tabs are very annoying, the amount of boxes that wear out because of them verses tape is disheartening, although now I just take a knife or scissors to them.
I've yet to risk flattening boxes, are they still durable, because I may have to consider it at some point, and then use big bags to store the little bags in.
@Ridgeheart said:
" @audiobean said:
"To really be environmental friendly, just consider to: Stop Buying These Plastic Bricks. The plastic produced here is meant for entertainment purpose only and nothing else. Of course, a little bit is okay, but not excessively."
The difference being that most people don't throw the bricks away after a single use. I'm not saying those people don't exist - but in that case, we're probably better off throwing those PEOPLE away."
I love reading comment sections for comments like this LOL
@audiobean said:
"To really be environmental friendly, just consider to: Stop Buying These Plastic Bricks."
I really don’t think that’s physically possible. In fact, it sounds like it could be potentially lethal to even attempt to do so.
@R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
I have to say I mostly agree with your comments. For me I really don't give a sh!t about recycling, it's just a virtue signal scam as far as I'm concerned so all of the packaging goes in the trash whether it's paper or plastic except the box and instructions.
@oldtodd33 said:
" @R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
I have to say I mostly agree with your comments. For me I really don't give a sh!t about recycling, it's just a virtue signal scam as far as I'm concerned so all of the packaging goes in the trash whether it's paper or plastic except the box and instructions. "
Exactly. It just seems like a hassle to sort your trash. In Ashland Oregon they were so strict and stubborn to the point if you put one little thing that doesn’t belong in the recycling then they would flat out refuse to take your trash.
@Endermen39 said:
" @oldtodd33 said:
" @R0Sch said:
"Please stop calling them "paper" bags. They are composite materials composed of cellulose with an un-removable plastic coating similar to single use coffee cups. So these cannot be thrown neither in the paper bin nor in the plastic/metal recycling bin and they will end up in landfills or burned instead of being recycled like the plastic bags could.
So stop the greenwashing propaganda please and do something that matters like reducing the thickness of building instructions and the size of boxes that significantly decrease the shipping weight."
I have to say I mostly agree with your comments. For me I really don't give a sh!t about recycling, it's just a virtue signal scam as far as I'm concerned so all of the packaging goes in the trash whether it's paper or plastic except the box and instructions. "
Exactly. It just seems like a hassle to sort your trash. In Ashland Oregon they were so strict and stubborn to the point if you put one little thing that doesn’t belong in the recycling then they would flat out refuse to take your trash."
It's kind of the opposite in Denver, recycle bins are optional and most people don't have them. Before the pandemic my company filled a 3 yard paper recycling bin twice a week. The recycling company took it away saying they weren't making any money from it. Now most paper just goes in the dumpster and is hauled off to the landfill. Plastic has always gone in the trash because nobody wants it.
Garbage. nothing better than opening a sealed air tight plastic bag with fresh pieces inside. now we get our product in trash bags