LEGO may be considering phasing out paper instructions
Posted by Huw,
A new activity has appeared in the Insiders Rewards centre entitled Sustainable Building: Help us decide the future of LEGO Building Instructions!
The description goes on to suggest that the company could be considering "reduc[ing] our paper usage by switching to digital building instructions", which is something that I know many of you feel very strongly about.
If that applies to you, I suggest that you let LEGO know what you think by partaking in the survey, for which you'll receive 50 points.
Update 19th Sept 14:15: It looks as if the survey has been removed, perhaps as a result of the storm of protest it has caused here and elsewhere, or perhaps the message has already been received loud and clear!
Thanks to Minidolls_are_great_ for the tip-off.
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399 comments on this article
They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get.
Happy with that! It’s really annoying to store them (when you have hundreds)
Reducing overheads, on printing the instructions, more likely, and greenwashing it to pretend otherwise
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely NOT! Instructions are one of the best parts of Lego. I love to keep them and then look back at them over the years. It also keeps those already device-addicted children off devices, which is one of the good things about Lego. Nuh-uh. Never ever. DO NOT say yes to phasing out instructions!
Sometimes I build from the printed instructions. Sometimes I build from a PDF on my PC.
It depends where and what I'm building.
@Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Agreed. I don’t get why some steps have only one piece. They could easily have at least 5 pieces per step; with modern instructions detailing each brick, plus highlighting in the build picture, I don’t see a problem. With the obvious exception being 4+ sets.
I suggest they also get rid of the bricks, and build it all virtually using digital instructions! That way we would never ever have to take our eyes off the screen!
BTW, maybe this is a regional thing, but that link not only triggers my adblocker, but also doesn't lead me to a survey involving instructions, or anything product related whatsoever.
LEGO, if you do this, you will have jumped the shark. Not everyone has a tablet or laptop, and lugging around a desktop computer is a bit difficult... plus doing instructions on phones is nigh impossible.
I already don't buy a lot of sets (nothing on my wanted list right now, as has been the case for a while) but this might make me stop altogether.
That would be a massive deal-breaker for me (for whatever unspecified personal reason) that could potentially get me to put down Lego for good, but I also don't have an Insider account to take the survey. Hoping anyone who does makes sure to share their thoughts!
I still primarily use the paper instructions when building Lego sets. Only when I buy a set used without instructions do I pull out a device to use digital instructions. When I do, I usually use my 2-in-1 Chromebook. But, I don't want to have to do that every time my children want to build. I'd rather set them down with the paper instructions. I have to do that for all the Super Mario sets, and it's obnoxious.
And the price of the sets will be the same..
@Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
I agree. Lego seems to think everyone has one brain cell, and can't comprehend more than one piece per step.
And the 4+ instructions... A WHOLE PAGE FOR EACH STEP TELLING THEM TO PUT THE PIECE IN THEIR HAND IS RIDICULOUS!
The app instructions are HORRIBLE. l would hate this
The old instructions were just a few pages long. Now, they can use a full page to add just one part...
They should go back to the old style instead of removing the instructions.
Lego is a way to do something other than watching a screen. Removing the instructions would be crazy.
I'd like to start by saying that I'm in favour of sustainability... but... in recent years I've made a very deliberate decision not to buy any of the technic sets that required the use of an 'app' to be able to interact with and control the model. This was largely as a result of my scepticism that this technology would be supported in the years ahead and I'd end up with a set that was nothing more than a display item, so do Lego really value sustainability? I'd like to think that build instructions could be supported indefinitely but I'm just not sure that's the case, as a result a lot of us will decide to print the instructions so why not just put them in the box? .....Open minded but not yet convinced.....
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love the booklet instructions BUT if they get rid of printed instructions then the price of the model kits better drop.
I don’t want it like when they said oh do self check in at airports we’d have lower ticket price (airfares are higher than ever), and oh do self check out at stores and prices are higher than ever.
Please don't.
Really hated all those Mario sets for not including them.
Always had troubles with those sets. The battery didn't hold up till the end of the build, smartphone screens were too small and fast scrolling to earlier pages was very tedious.
Was really glad the latest ones finally included the booklets again.
If they stop adding them completely I'll probably stop buying Lego.
That’s a no from me, dawg.
As others here already mentioned, just make the instructions more efficient the way they are made now are just wasteful, but using an app or PC is no true substitute for a physical product. I'm not against using a pdf version on a tablet but I do prefer proper paper instructions. To be honest this is just green washing so they can look good on paper and maybe get some tax benefits.
@nldarklord said:
"Was really glad the latest ones finally included the booklets again."
This is news to me, can you tell me which sets in the range have that?
My concern is that it presents a reliance on the app, and I do not trust the preservation of the app in the long-term.
What's wrong with you TLG?
I'm an Insider, but I can't find the survey when I click the link.
All I see is one about membership experience, one about who I shop for, and a link to their Facebook.
In any case, no. They absolutely shouldn't remove physical instructions. I actually just tried the LEGO Instructions Builder app yesterday, and... I wasn't a fan. Not only is it superfluous to build the model digitally and IRL at the same time, but the whole thing is oh-so-obviously an appeal to Gen-Alpha "iPad kids."
Yes, that's insulting to a child's capabilities.
Like others have said not everyone has an iPad for a nice sized screen because doing it on your phone is awkward at times moving and zooming in at each step, etc.
Also for others here, when LEGO does simple steps in their instructions it’s part of their business strategy. Every set, kit is a potential first time set for a new novice builder. They don’t want it frustrating for new builders so you enjoy the easy step by steps and with hopes you’ll buy more.
It’s an effective tried and true strategy since they are a top seller billion dollar company.
You find it under activities on the VIP page
Paper is biodegradable, why is this a problem? So sad to see this might happen, I love reading through instructions of my old sets and getting rid of that would be a true tragedy
I don't want my eyes locked into a screen for building. As someone who spends a lot of time looking at a screen for work, my Lego building time is screen free and long may it continue.
With the exception of heavily discounted Mario sets, no physical instructions, no sale. Screw this stupid all digital future companies are trying so hard to force.
And hey, if they want to make the instructions more efficient, like so many have suggested here, it's not even that much work. Some Chinese brand likely has done the job already for them!
Oh I can't wait for LEGO Insiders Premium where you can get all access to ALL of LEGO's back catalogue of instructions for just $6.99/month! (And may god have mercy on your DMCA'd soul if you attempt to host them externally. Also we will rotate the availability of back instructions every season for extra FUN!)
Don’t.
@Fan_Of_Bricks said:
"Screw this stupid all digital future companies are trying so hard to force."
As a gamer - preach, brotha. Never thought there'd be a digital takeover debate about Lego (beyond losses in the market share), but here we are...
@Pastajensen said:
"You find it under activities on the VIP page"
I looked. Like I said, there were just two surveys about shopping habits and a link to LEGO's official Facebook (A.K.A. the app that nobody under the age of 20 uses anymore)
But with how expensive LEGO is becoming, soon it will only be those people who can afford an iPad who will be able to purchase the sets in the first place.
Survey feels biased and is certainly missing options.
For one I enjoy printed instructions as LEGO is my escape from a computer screen. Secondly, especially when there are more than one book in a set, it is inconvenient to use the digital instructions as you have to go from one book to the other it you elect to do non-sequential building. Thirdly, I like to be able to scan a book and readily flip forward and backward to ensure I have completed steps properly or am placing parts correctly to ensure LEGO logo direction.
While I respect the environmental concerns, Lego is the only activity I have that's completely analogue and doesn't require me to drive somewhere. If they ditch the instructions, they'll be ditching the offline nature of relaxing with a set.
I do Lego to get away from my phone. Please don't change that, Lego.
Without paper instructions I would not buy any LEGO sets any more. As a collector I even pay more just to have the paper instructions and boxes of second hand sets that I buy. LEGO is supposed to be an analog toy and bring kids and adults AWAY from the screens...
How about reducing the number of building steps in those ridiculous telephone books of instructions or reducing the box sizes filled with 40% air, to come closer to the sustainability goals? Or how about we just build digital altogether and skip the plastic bricks too? That would be the best for the environment, our wallets and solve the space problem in our home. No more cluttered dust magnets and boxes and finally nice looking homes with fresh air. Just think about it.
At the risk of sounding like most of you...
1. No. This is a horrible decision.
1a. Not everyone has a device they can use.
1b. Not everyone has a device they WANT to use for this.
1c. A lot harder to buy it and build it unless you're at home.
1d. Getting off devices is GOOD.
1e. Having a device WHERE I want to build is not always easy.
2. Make instructions have more pieces per step.
2a. I don't recommend going back to 80s and 90s level; that's difficult for even a seasoned builder like me to spot them all.
2b. Highlight them all, and show all the parts for a given page.
To find the survey, go to shop.lego.com, login, then click Discover, then click Lego Insiders, then click Activities, scroll down, there's a Sustainable Building survey.
Seeing as the survey says "No, I can't image....." - one would presume instead of "imagine" - it is not a good start.
Or perhaps it's freudian, I certainly don't want to only "image" instructions.
And as someone above says, it's somewhat biased - when it says "if you were to buy a set without instructions", there should be an answer to say (again) "I won't ever buy a set with no instructions". Or at least an option not to answer.
Basically that question will be used by the research people to say "100% of respondents say they will buy sets without instructions"
I don't mind digital instuctions if they had better colour definition , a few months ago I rebuilt a ship, cant remember which one and I started with the digital version but ended up having to dig out the book as I couldn't tell the difference between the two dark brown colours. If your building a new set then you cant really get mixed up but when all the parts are seperated into colours and not the original bag contents its hard to tell which one it is you need.
But I agree with everyone, I like the books just condence the steps, a page a brick is silly!
Hard no from me. Paper instructions are key to the experience of a new set. I'm OK with putting more parts in each step to save paper as a few others have pointed out but don't reduce the quality of the paper and design and above all don't get rid of them!
OK, I just took the survey.
Firstly, it's terrible. There are several mistakes in questions and answers.
Secondly, I had to look up the builder app since I've never used it. It's only for Android and iOS so...what am I going to do? Use a 5 inch phone screen to build? WTAF, Lego? I don't own, nor do I want, a tablet. If you're going to be insistent about something like this, call me back when you have applications for phones, tablets, Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
Third, there's nowhere to add your own comments on the survey, which is horrible. Here's hoping they read the comments here.
Fourth, Lego can't even get their own back catalog of instruction scans to be any good. Not everything is there (last I checked, but I use brickfactory.info instead), and some are actively horrific to use. Scans are terrible for color accuracy, which is particularly egregious since the explosion of colors in the 00s. Even now on printed instructions, some are terrible.
I have zero hope they'd ever fix their back catalog, and make digital instructions for all of those, so trying to do this? Absolutely not. Lego and tech are fairly poorly integrated, historically speaking.
To be honest, if they go this route, I would almost 100% stop buying Lego. I have 100k bricks worth to build on my own (mostly vintage) and while I do like modulars, Speed Champions, etc, this would be absolutely ruinous for my experience. Hard NOPE.
The survey is available for Dutch Insiders.
+1 for every mention of wanting the away from screen building experience.
+1 for every mention of reducing the steps in the paper manuals.
Much like others have said NO, DO NOT DO THIS!
First, Lego sucks at apps in general and doesn't support any of their apps long term. Every single app dependent set loses the "added functionality" given by the app a few years down the road.
Second, as a parent, I want my children OFF the screens as much as possible. Don't make a physical, creativity stimulating toy into one more zombie inducing flashing screen drug.
Third, you could reduce the number of pages in most modern instructions by half with no loss in the ease of build. For crying out loud, there are modular building instructions with 1 part on a page! Don't insult the intelligence of your "18+" aged customers. When my kids were first building with Lego, even they thought the 4+ sets page to pick up a piece was laughable.
Fourth, having a survey about this with half a dozen multiple choice questions and no possibility for free response tells me that they don't really want customer feedback that much.
Fifth, not only does not everyone have an electronic device for digital instructions, but what about when there is a power outage, or you go on a trip and don't have service? If you make it harder for people to use your product, it will hurt your sales.
I really hope TLG comes to their senses on this one.
@MandoEli37 said:
"Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"
Are you saying Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooourns?
@myth said:
" @Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Agreed. I don’t get why some steps have only one piece. They could easily have at least 5 pieces per step; with modern instructions detailing each brick, plus highlighting in the build picture, I don’t see a problem. With the obvious exception being 4+ sets.
"
I was building an old Space set from 1984 a few years ago and it has upwards of 12 pieces per step.
Part of why I love LEGO is it's a great, non-digital activity. Horrible idea that is solely about making them more money. If they cared about the environment (and other things), they wouldn't manufacture in countries like China.
*sigh* I have no clue how to answer question 4. It feels like a leading question, or something similar. I only buy for myself, and I don't want to lose physical instructions. So answer 1. But the way the question reads implies intent or motivation behind the action, at least to me.
And you can't complete the survey with it blank.
So what the heck do I do?
Screw that.
I feel like this is more complex than just a yes / no answer.
In the pro category, I generally recycle my instructions pretty quickly, and have gotten into a habit of just building small to medium sized sets in front of my computer via PDF.
But in the con category, printed instructions in every box just seem like a basic necessity to a building toy and I still want them for larger models (or even models I won't be building next to my computer.) And pulling instructions from a smart phone app is not exactly a thrilling idea either, gotta have a big screen.
And, if I'm being 100%, I am faaaaar from the target audience, buying parts more for the pieces or figs than the play value. I'd think it would be better for kids to have physical instructions to follow.
If there was some way to specially order a set without instructions for a discount, then I'd be for that... but then they'd have to double the number of packaging types and that seems to just be making the solution more complicated.
@Midge_1414 said:
"I don't mind digital instuctions if they had better colour definition , a few months ago I rebuilt a ship, cant remember which one and I started with the digital version but ended up having to dig out the book as I couldn't tell the difference between the two dark brown colours. If your building a new set then you cant really get mixed up but when all the parts are seperated into colours and not the original bag contents its hard to tell which one it is you need.
But I agree with everyone, I like the books just condence the steps, a page a brick is silly!"
I'll admit I've never tried the digital instructions, which it turns out is because I don't have a device that would work reasonably well for it. I would LOVE to be able to rotate models, to be able to highlight a piece and see its color, shape, even bag number (if possible). There is A LOT of potential benefit, as I've found I sometimes use the 3D models here on brickset to figure out something in an 80s set where it's not very clear and I don't have it in paper. But if Lego can't even get that right...LOL.
I even use rebrickable lists when I'm sorting sets, being able to check off what I've done while building could be useful as I often have to step away from the build. So many good things that could exist, and they can't make that happen. Maybe they should send a tablet with every person's first Lego purchase, just in case. I'm sure that would be cheaper and more green. /s
This is going to be more and more awful as the size and price of the set goes up. I can do a Polybag without instructions. A Millennium Falcon sans instructions would be a nightmare, paper or digital.
THis is not good, children need tactile things such as paper instructions, we are all on devices way too much and LEGO is one way of getting off of those things. Its also greenwashing bogus stuff its just simply a way for LEGO to "save" and make more money. Super lame.
Was not pleased with the Mario sets that had no paper instructions. That was sorta understandable as it was partly a digital toy. Now Mario sets mostly have paper instructions.
I know it has been said, but it can't be repeated often enough: Lego building is one of the very few non-screen activities in my life. Kids need non-screen activities more than ever.
If the day every comes that the majority of sets don't have paper instructions, I will stop buying new sets. I've already skipped the majority of BDP because they are digital instructions.
As many others have said, increasing the number of parts per step is a far better solution.
I use my device to stream while I build. Have ZERO interest in buying a device just to use as an instruction facilitator. Not only that, but I go camping in the summer a few times a year on the qt. No devices allowed. LEGO encouraged. Brickheadz, Speed Champions and other small contained sets are perfect for these outings.
Paper instructions are critical to my mental health!! Lol
Wow, they didn't even ask HOW my interactive experience was (it was laggy and unstable). The Poll maker are either out of touch or just want to avoid criticism (which is bad, because it makes dem snowflakes unhappy).
@Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
this.
I primarily build from my iPad instructions. I find the digital building app truly horrible. Even though I like to build from pdf’s I still treasure my paper instructions. Also, not everybody has an iPad or computer screen to build from. Phasing our printed instructions would be the dumbest thing ever. Also, if less paper is so important why the new lidded boxes that are not only harder to flatten and store but also require more cardboard.
Stupid move. As flimsy as their website is I wouldn’t trust it like I trust paper instructions sitting in my room. This will really influence my buying more than the dumb price hike did. I can’t stand online instructions & LEGO is my getaway FROM screens.
They could also GREATLY reduce the amount of paper by not doing the ridiculous 1 piece per step nonsense. They should give kids much more credit.
@guachi said:
" @myth said:
" @Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Agreed. I don’t get why some steps have only one piece. They could easily have at least 5 pieces per step; with modern instructions detailing each brick, plus highlighting in the build picture, I don’t see a problem. With the obvious exception being 4+ sets.
"
I was building an old Space set from 1984 a few years ago and it has upwards of 12 pieces per step."
Black Seas Barracuda has 28 major steps and the book is 31 pages! For 909 pieces! That's an average of 32 pieces per major step!
OK, but I seriously can't find the survey anywhere. I've tried everything: logging out and logging back in, reloading the page, even changing my country on the site settings. Nothing. Works. At all.
Can someone (preferably in the U.S.) please, please, PLEASE send me the link to the survey? Or is it a situation where the URL is unique to every LEGO Insiders member?
Definitely not the type of person to have a knee-jerk reaction to change, however I really hope this doesn't happen. I love using LEGO as a fully analog activity after staring at screens all day for work. The tactile quality of instruction books is something that I would be very sad to see go.
Not sure how this would logistically work, but perhaps there could be an option to buy instruction-free sets through LEGO if you so desire maybe with an attached incentive? I think it would be too complicated for regular retail, but might be a good compromise
A foolish move on their part of they follow through. I'd be very upset if they did this.
Last I heard, people were trying to get kids to spend LESS time looking at screens.
@xccj said:
"If there was some way to specially order a set without instructions for a discount, then I'd be for that... but then they'd have to double the number of packaging types and that seems to just be making the solution more complicated."
I didn't even get into the logistics of this. Yeah, super bad move. Maybe if they sold them without the box or instructions, and you had to order a certain amount for them to bag up a bunch of sets together? I don't know, logistically speaking this sounds stupid af.
Awful, awful idea. A part of the experience is working your way through the booklet as you go. I've still got the instructions from the sets I had as a kid on the 80s and they are something I can pass on to my kids. What are the chances of the app still being available in 40 years time?
I have tried using the app when I bought a set for my mum and she was struggling to make out the printed instructions. She quite liked it, I hated it!
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
"OK, but I seriously can't find the survey anywhere. I've tried everything: logging out and logging back in, reloading the page, even changing my country on the site settings. Nothing. Works. At all.
Can someone (preferably in the U.S.) please, please, PLEASE send me the link to the survey? Or is it a situation where the URL is unique to every LEGO Insiders member?"
Here's how I found it before, though not in the USA: To find the survey, go to shop.lego.com, login, then click Discover, then click Lego Insiders, then click Activities, scroll down, there's a Sustainable Building survey.
Have they not seen Bladerunner 2049 and the ‘blackout’ that wiped most digital records.
Imagine a world left with trillions of pieces of LEGO and no (digital) instructions.
@dimc said:
" @WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
"OK, but I seriously can't find the survey anywhere. I've tried everything: logging out and logging back in, reloading the page, even changing my country on the site settings. Nothing. Works. At all.
Can someone (preferably in the U.S.) please, please, PLEASE send me the link to the survey? Or is it a situation where the URL is unique to every LEGO Insiders member?"
Here's how I found it before, though not in the USA: To find the survey, go to shop.lego.com, login, then click Discover, then click Lego Insiders, then click Activities, scroll down, there's a Sustainable Building survey."
I've already tried that. And again, I can't find anything except two shopping habits surveys and a link to Facebook.
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
"OK, but I seriously can't find the survey anywhere. I've tried everything: logging out and logging back in, reloading the page, even changing my country on the site settings. Nothing. Works. At all.
Can someone (preferably in the U.S.) please, please, PLEASE send me the link to the survey? Or is it a situation where the URL is unique to every LEGO Insiders member?"
They probably pulled it because a lot of people said NO to the whole idea!!
@Spritetoggle said:
"*sigh* I have no clue how to answer question 4. It feels like a leading question, or something similar. I only buy for myself, and I don't want to lose physical instructions. So answer 1. But the way the question reads implies intent or motivation behind the action, at least to me.
And you can't complete the survey with it blank.
So what the heck do I do?"
Agreed, the answers are not complete. Certainly not me, my family or friends. So, Other adults?
What happened to don't do unto others... ;-)
ABSOLUTELY NO. PAPER > DIGITAL.
The survey is pretty lame as well, it really seems like they are trying to force and answer to say yes. SO far pretty much everyone here is in agreement that we are all opposed to digital only instructions. LEGO has seemed to forget they are an analog toy and children don't need to be using a laptop to build. Super lame. I also hope LEGo reads these comments and people can also email them directly with their concern
@meesajarjar72 said:
" @WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
"OK, but I seriously can't find the survey anywhere. I've tried everything: logging out and logging back in, reloading the page, even changing my country on the site settings. Nothing. Works. At all.
Can someone (preferably in the U.S.) please, please, PLEASE send me the link to the survey? Or is it a situation where the URL is unique to every LEGO Insiders member?"
They probably pulled it because a lot of people said NO to the whole idea!!"
That could be it. To be honest, with all the negative feedback the survey questions are receiving in this comments section, it might not even be worth it.
I totally agree with everyone here.
-Just condense the building steps (especially the 4+ "put the LEGO piece in your hand!" crap).
-This is clearly a greenwashing move so that LEGO can pinch more pennies.
-Honestly, I may just completely quit LEGO building altogether if they go forward with this plan... and I don't think LEGO, or anyone in the AFOL and TFOL community, wants that to happen.
Too bad they didn't include a comments box at the end of the survey to that they could receive honest opinions about going away from paper instructions.
I have used downloaded instructions when rebuilding sets that I find in bulk lots and have found them not too bad to work from. However I think that the original paper instructions are an integral part of the set and should always be included.
It certainly wont be a money saving venture as they will need exponentially increase their customer service staff to deal with the tsunami of complaints from pissed off customers!!
Its pretty much all been said by everyone else already, but it's a really stupid idea to get rid of paper instructions.
For me, and the grandkids, building Lego is a way to get away from the internet and devices. Making instuctions digital only removes this for the millions of people who are the same and don't want to be even more glued to their phones or pads etc. Plus, as mentioned, what about those that don't have internet access? Or a device to access it with? I thought Lego was about 'playing together', not excluding anyone who isn't rich enough to buy whatever can run the latest tech. Don't they remember the disasters that have been their most recent attempts at intergrating tech and lego, Hidden Side and Vidiyo?
As said though, if they really want to save paper, condense the instructions! I remember as a kid coping perfectly fine with instructions that had me adding entire layers at a time rather then single bricks. With todays graphic design etc, surely its much easier showing multiple bricks per step then it used to be, or does Lego think kids have really dumbed down so much they can add more then 2 bricks at a time?
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
"I've already tried that. And again, I can't find anything except two shopping habits surveys and a link to Facebook."
Maybe it's not available in the USA yet?
For me it's quite easy.
The moment they stop providing paper instructions will be the moment I stop buying any sets from them. Period.
No paper instructions is a no-go for me. An absolute deal breaker.
Like others have said, want to save paper? Stop making instructions for idiots that are the size of a phonebook.
And even for 4+ kids, showing the pieces in the hands for EVERY SMEGGING STEP is ridiculous, and insulting to the intelligence of four year olds. After the first time they will have gotten that the pieces shown go in their hands and not their mouths. Trust them, they are smarter than you think (maybe even smarter than you). And if they aren't, then let them play with something else until they are ready for it, for crying out loud!
Maybe @Huw or one of the other Brickset staff can try to get in a word for us about how loaded the questions and answers in the survey are? The last thing anyone here would want is for a hard "no" to be misconstrued as something else entirely.
@Blockwork_Orange said:
"I have used downloaded instructions when rebuilding sets that I find in bulk lots and have found them not too bad to work from. However I think that the original paper instructions are an integral part of the set and should always be included. "
I have to do this a lot, and it's...OK. It works pretty well back pre-2000, when the difference between colors was obvious. Now though? Brutal. And some scans are quite poor quality, and that really makes the color and even piece differentiation really hard to make out. I don't know how Lego hasn't just bought a copy of every instruction and photographed it in a well-lit studio, at high resolution, and made sure it's super clear.
No. I'll stop spending 3000 dollars/year on this hobby if paper instructions go away.
My kids make a lot more building errors using digital 3D instructions than regular paper or PDF instructions, despite animations, videos etc., for some apparent reason. So they hardly seem to be an improvement for basic builders, digitally savvy ones at that...
Buy FSC certified paper and use some of those ever increasing profits to buy carbon offsets for whatever impact remains from paper instructions. Sustainability secured!
By the way, power for all those servers, hard drives and user clients is not sustainable either. Sure, TLG may hedge their power usage from wind farms etc., but then they handily ignore the end users' increase in power usage, from ordinary coal, oil and gas energy mixes (still the vast majority of the world).
@Murdoch17 said:
"LEGO, if you do this, you will have jumped the shark. Not everyone has a tablet or laptop, and lugging around a desktop computer is a bit difficult... plus doing instructions on phones is nigh impossible.
I already don't buy a lot of sets (nothing on my wanted list right now, as has been the case for a while) but this might make me stop altogether."
TLG isn't here, they're watching the survey in the link.
Great. Just hope they can actually get all the instructions onto the app and website finally
I suggest everyone read the 8-question survey that takes 2 minutes to complete before making baseless comments.
I imagine with this survey being public, TLG is probably close to implementing it in the next few years with direct to consumer releases. Whether you like it or not, it will hit near full release before the end of the decade based on their PR’s sustainability initiative, in certain markets of course.
Based on the question and answer options, the goal of the survey is to gauge what will be the most painless way to roll it out. One of the answer options is about offering a monetary discount on a future purchase if you buy a paperless set. This strategy sounds superb! I doubt that kind of promotion will last once everything is paperless though. And Lego needs to upgrade their app significantly, while still maintaining PDFs that can be digitally downloaded to ensure future proofing.
I enjoy the idea of paperless Lego. Instructions are cumbersome and in the past decade I have used a laptop or tablet anyways. They go straight to a binder or box and take up too much space. As a collector, it’s a nuisance having to maintain them as well. If they come in sealed bags I just leave the bag sealed.
What I’m not a big fan of is Lego’s sudden shift in recent years. It’s clearly marketing and PR. The multi billion dollar company reaping millions in profit can afford to keep full colored paper instructions and plastic bags. There’s no excuse to reduce the price of Lego in various themes, it is pure greed.
Conversely, they are still at least making a better effort than most, even if it is PR. A transition I would rather see before going full paperless is to make black and white instructions with numbered colors, with only one page in color as the number key. If a Lego is sold online, don’t use a box printed in full color. Make an alternate box that’s plain cardboard in an efficient box shape with a black silhouette of the set like it’s a regular consumer product bought on Amazon and offer a discount.
@fakespacesquid said:
"TLG isn't here, they're watching the survey in the link."
I almost guarantee this is not true. Brickset is a popular website, Lego sends them sets for review, someone is for sure watching this thread. Or will be in a few days.
Insiders only :(
Good to know they are locking their own surveys to that. Just imagine someone wanting to give feedback?
My answer is a resounding NO. This is cost-cutting. Stop it. Lego should be available offline. That they even post such a survey and might be considering this is worrying.
If their Lego App didn't crash all the time it would help. I swear I can't complete a large set without the instruction app crashing at least 10 times on my iPad. It's so bad that now I download PDFs and read them through a PDF Reader app instead of using the Lego App..
Looks like I have the minority opinion of being completely fine with them phasing out physical institution books. Let’s list the advantages of each, shall we?
Advantages of Paper Instructions:
- Keeps LEGO as a digital free hobby: in an increasingly digital world, having a hobby that allows you to disconnect entirely from devices is nice.
Advantages of Digital Instructions:
- Storage: once you’ve got a sizeable collection, storage of instructions starts to become a chore. Personally, I’ve got 6 filing cabinet drawers full of the things, and that’s only counting the ones I’ve gotten around to filing. An entire library of digital instructions only takes up as much space as your tablet/phone.
- Better for the environment: someone mentioned before that LEGO might try to claim this as a greenwashing tactic, but I don’t think it’s without environmental merit, for a couple of reasons;
- The most obvious one is that it means they use significantly less paper by not having to print millions of booklets every year.
- Another, perhaps less obvious one is the reduction in weight of newly boxed sets. I just did a quick test with set 76224, and found out the complete set weighs about 300g. The instruction book weighs 150g, meaning a full 1/3 of the weight of the boxed set was just for the instructions! Being able to reduce the weight of sets as they’re shipped around the world, on the scale that LEGO operates, would actually have a significant impact on the emissions required to do so.
- No more crushed instructions: the instructions in a lot of smaller sets (Brickheadz, for example)are often folded to fit them inside the smaller boxes. Often, this ends up making them harder to use than the digital instructions. I usually end up having to flatten them by placing them under something heavy for a while to try and straighten them out again.
- Legibility: being able to rotate the model, zoom in and out, and have animations to show how things connect is an undeniable advantage to digital instructions that physical ones cannot match. Granted, this is currently not a feature for every set on the Builder app, if LEGO was to fully commit to an all-digital-instructions future, there’s no reason to assume they wouldn’t.
- Build together: another enormous advantage of the app is the ability to easily share the build amongst multiple people. The way it will automatically divide the set among the number of participants is fantastic and a great way to ensure everyone is able to get involved in a way that simply passing the instruction booklet around doesn’t allow.
- Updatable: this is obviously a much more minor advantage, but digital instructions can be updated if a mistake is found once they’ve been published.
In addition to these direct advantages, I think it’s worth noting that people are already using digital instructions when it comes to the BrickLink Designer Program sets, or when downloading or buying instructions from sites like Rebrickable.
TL;DR: As much as I appreciate a nice instruction booklet, particularly for the larger 18+ sets, the advantages offered by a digital future in this regard are, in my opinion, heavily weighted against paper instructions.
Whenever I purchase a Lego set I also download the pdf instructions. In fact, I often download the pdf document for sets I haven't purchased or don't intend to purchase. I consider the pdfs as as collectable Lego subset in themselves.
Not all Lego purchasers have access to electronic media, or, even, the internet. Paper based instructions would help younger collectors to read and follow instructions.
If building from a pdf I use an iPad - anything smaller makes it too had to follow the instructions correctly.
One: I got rid of my smartphone (carrying a flip now) and tablet. Too many distractions.
LEGO should've had a comments section in the survey. Secondly, the question "If you were to buy a LEGO® set WITHOUT printed instructions, who would you buy it for?" should've had the answer "No One" as an option.
LEGO could save paper by simplfying the instructions and condensing them. I have some '80s Technic sets, and their manuals--with many alternate builds are thinner than a comparable modern set.
Also, the "normal" instructions (basically PDF reader) are fine, but the 3D / Interactive instructions that have you basically looking for 1-2 pieces at a time with annoying animation are horrible, for me. I can understand they're nice for kids, but I hate them.
Other than instability and this, I have nothing against the concept of digital instructions. I was using PDFs on a computer screen even before they had their app. Trying to build something like the UCS Millenium Falcon with the ridiculously large instructions is just not practical.
Nowadays I just seal my instructions in a bag for preservation and build with some form of digital instructions (either PDF on a Computer/iPad or the Lego App).
What an appalling idea. Who wants to use their phone screen to build from??
Mind you , I can see why Lego wish to do this. It's not about "green" - it's purely about saving money. The instruction booklets in modern Lego sets must cost a fortune to produce - dozens of pages in a booklet in a £20 set.
I bet in some modern sets, the instruction booklet costs Lego more than the actual plastic pieces in the set. Like the new Star Wars mechs like 75370 - a £13 set with an 84 page instruction book. Yes, 84 pages - and only 138 parts!!!!
Everyone under this article keeps parroting "More time off devices is good!!!!!" but fail to back it up with a reason. A lot of the reason screen time is seen as a bad thing is because what's on the screen. Instructions on a device are no more damaging to your mental health or development than physical instructions. It's on the same caliber as saying reading e-books isn't reading because it's not ink-on-paper.
I have no objections to the other points against this change, I love my physical manuals too (even if I do find myself coming here and yoinking the PDFs for any build I do at my desk anyway.) I'm just tired of people saying "screen bad" without really backing it up.
Oh, and if this is about eye strain, that has been repeatedly disproved over the past decade.
I do most of my building from digital instructions, these days. But by that, I mean scans of 80s/90s instructions on Peeron displayed at large size on the monitor of my desktop computer, not a proprietary app on my phone (I built 910033 by using my phone to display the PDF instructions, because I was building it in a different room from my computer, and the experience was less than optimal).
So yes to PDF instructions, but no to dependence on some fly-by-night app.
@Starik20X7 said:
"Looks like I have the minority opinion of being completely fine with them phasing out physical institution books. Let’s list the advantages of each, shall we?"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you found a single solitary benefit to paper instructions? That's it? Maybe take a browse through this thread mate. Of the pros you found, maybe one is actually real in a tangible way, and that's some savings with printing and shipping them. Most people don't have 6 drawers of them. Maybe you should recycle yours. Unfolding a book isn't hard. And if they made smaller instructions with more pieces per step, this would be even less of an issue. People say the apps crash all the time, and given Lego's technical track record, that sounds right. So that's not useful if you try to rotate it and it crashes. Let alone if you're trying to build with others and it crashes.
I suggest paper instructions with more bricks per step, so instead of 50 pages the booklet is reduced to 20 pages. Saves a lot of paper. And digital they can make instructions with one piece per step.
How about no. Whenever I'm building a set I like to be away from computer screens and such. Maybe cut some costs by making the boxes smaller? That would make it more difficult to get people to pay more for the new sets though, so that won't happen.
Do what you gotta do, but I'm literally going to print out the PDFs. I'm not doing digital instructions.
i hope they get all the pushback they can because this is just not it. i don’t think kids should be using smart devices to begin with, and there’s going to be a huge chunk that do not have access to them at all. like, if a kid gets a star wars set as a gift that they really wanted, but they cant build it, that’s gonna be a terrible birthday. this is a move towards inaccessibility, children should not have to rely on expensive devices to build the set they bought.
I consider ownership of the instructions as proof that I own the set.
@cody6268 said:
"LEGO could save paper by simplfying the instructions and condensing them. I have some '80s Technic sets, and their manuals--with many alternate builds are thinner than a comparable modern set."
When was the last time you’ve taken a good look at those 80s/90s instructions? I recently built a lot of Lego from vintage bulk I bought. Lots of technic and castle. Those instructions are awful. You have to be extremely perceptive of every piece added each step since it’s sometimes a dozen or more parts at a time. 99% of the books don’t even call out what part is used in each step. Lego has come a long way in making their instructions accessible to most people.
I really don't like the way the survey phrases its option in a way that it is either all digital or all paper with no way to articulate a middleground.
I would prefer to opt out of instructions for sets I buy as partspacks like battlepacks but UCS sets should come with nice books. The sets in between those sizes could really go either way.
On a previous article on instructions commenters came up with the idea of dialing back on the amount of pages for instructions to more reasonable levels like in the past and referring the type of person that needs 1 part pages to the app. That would be the way to go in my eyes.
Every time I visit this side nowadays there's another disappointing update from Lego
I agree, the survey, as are most by intention, is slightly biased towards the answer TLG want. For the question about buying a set for others, I selected Adukt, as there is no way I would buy a set for a child, especially someone else's, without paper instructions. My 18yo daughter, specifically uses lego to get away from screen time (as she has to use one for the majority of her study work) and said she would hate to use a device of any kind to build.
I agree with condensing the steps, I get why they do it the way they do, but I don't recall struggling as a child to build.
I found the last question interesting, as I haven't bought from lego.com for nearly 18 months due almost everywhere else selling it cheaper. Even here in NZ where Toyworld is notoriously expensive, has often been cheaper than lego.com.
Oh and I used the digital base to build a couple of sets from the bricklink program, hated it.
Edited to add; Is using digital instructions really that much of an environmental advantage. Paper ones that only need to printed once (albeit several thousand copies) to use, or digital ones that need energy (and a lot of it) every time you want to build a set, especially if you want to build it repeatedly over the years.
I prefer digital instructions. Is the app good currently? No. But it has potential and it’s much more convenient to tap the screen than to turn pages. And the new 3D models for some sets again have real potential even if the current implementation needs work. So instructions go straight into the recycling bin. But I also wouldn’t want to take away the option when so many clearly prefer it.
Do it! Paper instructions are a pain to store.
@ToxicAtom said:
"Everyone under this article keeps parroting "More time off devices is good!!!!!" but fail to back it up with a reason. A lot of the reason screen time is seen as a bad thing is because what's on the screen. Instructions on a device are no more damaging to your mental health or development than physical instructions. It's on the same caliber as saying reading e-books isn't reading because it's not ink-on-paper.
I have no objections to the other points against this change, I love my physical manuals too (even if I do find myself coming here and yoinking the PDFs for any build I do at my desk anyway.) I'm just tired of people saying "screen bad" without really backing it up.
Oh, and if this is about eye strain, that has been repeatedly disproved over the past decade. "
Oh, so personal experience of hurting eyes and headaches after long usage of screens (especially small ones like on mobile phones) has been disproved? Nice to know that I have only been imagining this all the time!
As for more reasons?
I can only speak for myself but I find being offline relaxing, believe it or not. I sit in front of a monitor at work all day long, I check Brickset, my mail etc. on my phone. In the evening I sometimes watch TV, a movie on DVD, Blu-ray or some streaming service.
It's no wonder all my major hobbies (brick building, modelmaking, swimming, cycling, gardening, golf, darts) are all offline activities, meant as an antidote to my job and all the other times I have to be in font of some screen.
I see absolutely no good that can come from this move - other than that I will save loads of money from all the LEGO I will no longer be buying.
I hate this idea. I like to sit down and do build a set specifically to get away from my device. To do something tactile and relaxing. I don't need an e-mail notification popping up every five minutes or whatever. Have digital copies available, but don't get rid of the paper copies included in the sets. Not everything needs to be "app enabled."
@winbrant said:
"Survey feels biased and is certainly missing options.
For one I enjoy printed instructions as LEGO is my escape from a computer screen. Secondly, especially when there are more than one book in a set, it is inconvenient to use the digital instructions as you have to go from one book to the other it you elect to do non-sequential building. Thirdly, I like to be able to scan a book and readily flip forward and backward to ensure I have completed steps properly or am placing parts correctly to ensure LEGO logo direction."
And on a screen the old school trick of placing the pieces on the page to have the "got all?" check on page flip wont work anymore
Please no. Like others said, condense steps. Just don't take the instructions away!
@Reventon said:
"Do it! Paper instructions are a pain to store. "
What a totally stupid argument.
Just throw them in the recycling bin then!
Or even better, gift them to some kids who might actually be grateful for them!
No. No! You almost made me quit Lego with the paper bags. I WILL quit if you take away the paper instructions.
@Huw said:
"I consider ownership of the instructions as proof that I own the set."
THINK of how quickly we can instantly expand our collections once that's no longer an option! :-)
/s
I've been building a ton 80's set and some 90's and I love it, yes it's true there is places where they could be clearer but it's never a problem to sort out. What I especially do love is that they don't waste space and they are efficient, but I do get that is not everyone cup of tea. There is however a middle point of guessing where the brick goes and using a whole page for a 2x2 brick.
Lego:
'we are a premium product and are expensive because we are the best at what we do and therefore the most profitable toy company'
Also Lego:
'would you like us to cut corners by phasing out physical instructions? We won't lower prices or anything but we will 'save' on paper.'
I'm not sure if any of this is correct, but this is how it comes of to me.
@Jesse_S_T said:
"When was the last time you’ve taken a good look at those 80s/90s instructions? I recently built a lot of Lego from vintage bulk I bought. Lots of technic and castle. Those instructions are awful. You have to be extremely perceptive of every piece added each step since it’s sometimes a dozen or more parts at a time. 99% of the books don’t even call out what part is used in each step. Lego has come a long way in making their instructions accessible to most people."
I still have the paper instructions of my 8865, which was a 900 piece set, yet had a 36 page instruction booklet....for building the A-model, the B-model and for motorizing the latter one. And was perfectly adequate both when I built it as a 10 year old, and still fine when I did so a couple of years ago when I came out of my dark ages. I'd say look them up and tell me what parts seem confusing to you.
Good or bad instructions has little to do with how few elements are added per page, but all with how it is presented. Yes, I have seen old instructions that are utterly confusing. But similarly, I've also seen recent instructions with equally confusing steps. I mean, they seemed to have stopped outlining the added pieces per step, and when those aren't were you expect them it's easy to overlook. And while they love to rotate the built dozens of times during the build (actyually adding extra steps), there are moments where for some reason they don't, and let you guess where things need to be connected, obscured by other parts of the model. Nothing I can't handle, but it only shows that just reducing the number of pieces per step to the absolute minimum isn't the magic solution either.
No No a thousand times no. This is the worst idea Lego have ever announced. If I could find the survey to let them know that I would, but the link asks you to sign into Lego Insiders
Nothing beats building from a physical manual.
NOTHING.
@Chilis_no said:
"No. No! You almost made me quit Lego with the paper bags. I WILL quit if you take away the paper instructions. "
Paper bags were actually a good move
This is just greenwashing LEGO's obvious cost-cutting
@WizardOfOss said:
" @Jesse_S_T said:
"When was the last time you’ve taken a good look at those 80s/90s instructions? I recently built a lot of Lego from vintage bulk I bought. Lots of technic and castle. Those instructions are awful. You have to be extremely perceptive of every piece added each step since it’s sometimes a dozen or more parts at a time. 99% of the books don’t even call out what part is used in each step. Lego has come a long way in making their instructions accessible to most people."
I still have the paper instructions of my 8865, which was a 900 piece set, yet had a 36 page instruction booklet....for building the A-model, the B-model and for motorizing the latter one. And was perfectly adequate both when I built it as a 10 year old, and still fine when I did so a couple of years ago when I came out of my dark ages. I'd say look them up and tell me what parts seem confusing to you.
Good or bad instructions has little to do with how few elements are added per page, but all with how it is presented. Yes, I have seen old instructions that are confusing. But similarly, I've also seen recent instructions with equally confusing steps. I mean, they seemed to have stopped outlining the added pieces per step, and when those aren't were you expect them it's easy to overlook. And while they love to rotate the built dozens of times during the build (actyually adding extra steps), there are moments where for some reason they don't, and let you guess where things need to be connected, obscured by other parts of the model. Nothing I can't handle, but it only shows that just reducing the number of pieces per step to the absolute minimum isn't the magic solution either."
Agreed. I build vintage a lot, and yes, sometimes I have to go back. But that's how it is, and I'm used to it. A middle ground here is the answer. Highlight bricks, put more per page, and for the love of accessibility, FIX YOUR COLOR PRINTING. It's so hard to distinguish certain colors.
I don't think getting rid of paper instructions is a good idea as everything on the internet seems to die. Physical is there forever.
@Binnekamp said:
"Lego:
'we are a premium product and are expensive because we are the best at what we do and therefore the most profitable toy company'
Also Lego:
'would you like us to cut corners by phasing out physical instructions? We won't lower prices or anything but we will 'save' on paper.'
I'm not sure if any of this is correct, but this is how it comes of to me."
I agree. Save kids from devices, not a little bit of paper.
How stupid and insane and suicidal (for the company). Given LEGO's terrible track record of keeping digital assets available over the years we would all just be printing the instructions out to be on the safe side making for extra hassle and expense. I really hope someone at the company remembers their near-death experience 20 years ago and doesn't do new stupid things to have that happen again.
Survey completed. Question 4 was definitely not worded in a way that those of us who don't want to build from an app could honestly answer. My answers were No & have not used the app. I have a hard enough time with paper instructions. I can't stand using apps for instructions for anything, not just LEGO. Screen always times out, hate having to scroll back & forth, etc. Reading screens for any length of time kills my eyes. I don't want to spend my entire life attached to digital devices. I'm sick of being expected to prove my membership, connection, whatever to anything by showing a digital card on my phone. I don't have unlimited data & so many establishments have pathetic wifi access. If you can't provide me with the means to access your digital id and/or app don't require me to have to use it.
@guachi said:
" @myth said:
" @Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Agreed. I don’t get why some steps have only one piece. They could easily have at least 5 pieces per step; with modern instructions detailing each brick, plus highlighting in the build picture, I don’t see a problem. With the obvious exception being 4+ sets.
"
I was building an old Space set from 1984 a few years ago and it has upwards of 12 pieces per step."
OMGosh! What a terrifying thing to endure. Did you sprain something? Pass out from fatigue? Die?
Maybe you accidentally built a castle because the directions were too complicated?
*Something* horrid must have happened to you, because there is no possible way under the sun anybody could ever manage putting on more than 4 pieces in a single step. Heck, even 2 is really pushing it. We know Lego has researched this, and we know Lego knows best.
It is a well-verified Fact that nobody has the slightest affinity for any of those old sets because nobody could ever manage to put them together. Their resale value is nil, the box art is forgotten, the instructions—wretched postage stamps that they are—are recycling fodder, etc. etc. What a fail. Now if those Classic Space sets had just come with 84-page instruction booklets, I bet somebody would actually remember them.
Getting rid of paper instructions means LEGO is inaccessible to people without technology.
Some kids don't have access to that. I have put Polybags in shoeboxes in the past for the Christmas shoebox appeal, this move might disclude recipients from building the intended model.
It also encourages screen time which LEGO is good to get time AWAY from staring at a screen all day.
if LEGO gets rid of instructions, it will hurt charities like FairyBricks hard, as I don't think hospitals are set up to deal with hundreds of sick kids suddenly needing tablets for building their free LEGO sets.
Everyone's pretty much said what I could. I prefer printed instructions.
The only upside I see is less to store.
But I can definitely see myself "boycotting" for a decision like this, as petty as that may sound.
Eh, it's not THAT big of a deal. Protip: get a old android tablet (or a really cheap budget tablet which you could flash lineage onto or something), install a pdf viewer (I personally use mupdf mini), download the instructions from lego's website and there ya go!
I would always prefer paper instructions, but is it really worth a boycott?
EDIT: I should've properly read the comments first. Statement retracted!
I agree with the sentiment that a) physical instructions should continue to exist, screens dominate my life already anyway and b) just print the instructions more efficiently.
Mark my words, if they fully digitize instructions, they will turn that into a subscription model sooner or later. "Oh no! Something went wrong. You need the Lego Origins(tm) subscription to access instructions for sets that came out before the year 1999! Only 12,99* a month!"
With the never-ending stream of dumb ideas this company comes up with, someone should check Denmark's water supply for substances that diminish cognitive ability.
@Murdoch17 said:
"if LEGO gets rid of instructions, it will hurt charities like FairyBricks hard, as I don't think hospitals are set up to deal with hundreds of sick kids suddenly needing tablets for building their free LEGO sets."
Fair point, I feel like exceptions will be made for charities and they may still be provided with paper instructions.
Food for thought: set 8482 CyberMaster. Good luck building that one nowadays. It had digital instructions a mere 26 years ago. The software only runs on old computers nowadays. Or for a more recent example: 8527 Minstorms NXT of 18 years ago. It can probably be made to run and the ROMs are probably online.
But ask yourself... do you want to go through that hassle? Compared to simple scans, these instructions were ingrained in the discs that came with these sets. So scans are not really easy to come by. You'll just have to make the contents work, AFAIK.
Make your instructions less idiotic and save at least 50% on paper.
I can kind of see it for the pricier sets, since I'm assuming if you can afford a couple hundred bucks or more for a building set, you have access to a computer or tablet, and the half-inch thick bound books are costlier than the stapled booklets. But there's kids out there who are hoping for a $20 or $30 set for their birthday, who might not have access to a device like that, and they should absolutely get instructions included. Not to say there isn't room to condense many of the steps in those instructions and make those booklets thinner.
If they took them out of the more expensive sets, I think they should include a voucher, which could be redeemed for either the printed instructions, or $5-10 off at a Lego store or lego.com. That might give them better data on how many people actually want the printed books.
@WilsonPark said:
"I can kind of see it for the pricier sets, since I'm assuming if you can afford a couple hundred bucks or more for a building set, you have access to a computer or tablet, and the half-inch thick bound books are costlier than the stapled booklets. But there's kids out there who are hoping for a $20 or $30 set for their birthday, who might not have access to a device like that, and they should absolutely get instructions included. Not to say there isn't room to condense many of the steps in those instructions and make those booklets thinner.
If they took them out of the more expensive sets, I think they should include a voucher, which could be redeemed for either the printed instructions, or $5-10 off at a Lego store or lego.com. That might give them better data on how many people actually want the printed books. "
Great take, and I fully agree with the voucher approach.
Switching from print to digital instructions would serve as a major impediment to my ability to enjoy LEGO as my hobby. I am an Orthodox Jew who does not use electronic technology on the Sabbath, which is often the one day of the week when I am able to relax with my LEGO hobby. This would be terrible for me and others like me.
I also agree with all of the previous posters who point out (a) how LEGO should be an escape from screen time, not something that adds to it; and (b) the potential for unequal access to LEGO due to adequate technology not necessarily being financially available to those with a lower economic status.
Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.
The best experience for building digitally is surely on a tablet, and it doesn’t need to be a good or expensive one. Easy to put on stand and legible in all lighting.
I don’t think children’s sets should lose their instructions, but honestly anyone with the budget for multiple 18+ sets can presumably afford a cheap tablet?
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
" @Chilis_no said:
"No. No! You almost made me quit Lego with the paper bags. I WILL quit if you take away the paper instructions. "
Paper bags were actually a good move
This is just greenwashing LEGO's obvious cost-cutting"
Except that they can now not be recycled in NZ. They have a plastic membrane which means I can now neither put then in paper or soft plastics.
@b2_O said:
"Eh, it's not THAT big of a deal. Protip: get a old android tablet (or a really cheap budget tablet which you could flash lineage onto or something), install a pdf viewer (I personally use mupdf mini), download the instructions from lego's website and there ya go!
I would always prefer paper instructions, but is it really worth a boycott?"
Imho yes.
Think of it this way: I am the consumer. I pay for the product I want. It is my money that makes them profitable in the first place.
If they don't provide what I want, I will simply take my business elsewhere.
It's not restricted to LEGO.
Say you want to buy a car. One of your requirements is that it's a BEV. One company offers such a model, the other says sorry, can't do. Is not buying from them petty? Should I jump through hoops just to not be considered petty?
Why should anyone be required to purchase an electronic device in order to be able to build a LEGO set when other companies offer sets with printed instructions?
@MandoEli37 said:
"Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"
Don't booo, but I remember when I using the Instruction Books
It is interesting to me that eliminating paper instructions, thereby increasing the use of electronics, is automatically considered more sustainable. Coal is the source of electricity in many, many places, and unlike trees it is not renewable. There are not enough resources on planet earth to create enough solar panels to power the planet's current energy consumption, to say nothing of solar's marginal current capacity. Wind power is a tiny percent overall, etc. Lithium mining (to name a single source component of batteries/devices, of which there are many more), is absolutely terrible to the environment and certainly not an unlimited resource here on earth. Increasing the reliance on lithium specifically, and electronics more generally, is not automatically sustainable.
This conversation about sustainability is problematic in a similar way to the one surrounding electric cars. Consider that many countries use coal to generate effectively 100% of their electricity. Moving the source of the pollution from "point source" (your car) to "non-point source" (the coal powered electricity plant) hasn't actually reduced the pollution generated. It's just moved the location of that pollution.
My point, generally, is that to have a real conversation about sustainability it's necessary to include all the resources used into consideration. I've only gestured at some of there here, but hopefully enough to make the point that using fewer trees = good is too simple an analysis.
Thank you for the survey heads-up. Always nice to get those extra Lego Insider points here and there. They all add up!
I did say that I support TLG's move towards paperless instructions on the basis of sustainability, but I won't deny that if it wasn't for the compelling ethical arguments behind the transition, I wouldn't be in favour of it at all. I find digital instructions cumbersome. I don't always have my laptop besides me when I'm building, and on those frustrating occasions when my internet connection is down (as just happened about an hour ago) I'd like to be able to build to pass the time. The sustainability factor aside, we really should all be spending less time on our digital devices. One of the benefits of Lego, especialy for younger generations who already spend WAY TOO MUCH time on digital devices, is that it's a hobby that moves us all away from our digital default setting.
Also, some of those instruction pamphlets are beautifully rendered, especially for the larger Icon and Creator sets, adding fascinating background information about the designers or the IP involved etc. If TLG was to cut down on printed instructions, I hope they'd do the decent thing and knock a good few quid/dollars off their sets' prices, seeing that those instructions, like the box art, all add to the overall purchase.
BOO
DISLIKE
As someone with chronic dry eye and who works in front of a computer for at least 8 hours a day, I have difficulty having to stare at a screen while trying to build a 1000+ pc set (and having spinal nerve damage doesn't help either). Additionally, I find that all digital instructions are not created equal, particularly when it comes to the Technic 18+ vs other lines, which is quite inconvenient. I would rather stick to paper and use digital as a backup or supplement only, as opposed to just digital.
@denn said:
"BOO
DISLIKE"
Never have I wished harder that Brickset had dislike buttons
@AustinPowers said:
" @b2_O said:
"Eh, it's not THAT big of a deal. Protip: get a old android tablet (or a really cheap budget tablet which you could flash lineage onto or something), install a pdf viewer (I personally use mupdf mini), download the instructions from lego's website and there ya go!
I would always prefer paper instructions, but is it really worth a boycott?"
Imho yes.
Think of it this way: I am the consumer. I pay for the product I want. It is my money that makes them profitable in the first place.
If they don't provide what I want, I will simply take my business elsewhere.
It's not restricted to LEGO.
Say you want to buy a car. One of your requirements is that it's a BEV. One company offers such a model, the other says sorry, can't do. Is not buying from them petty? Should I jump through hoops just to not be considered petty?
Why should anyone be required to purchase an electronic device in order to be able to build a LEGO set when other companies offer sets with printed instructions? "
I have ammended my comment to state that I have retracted my statement. Sorry for the confusion!
Also, cool username!
@Maxbricks14 said:
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely NOT! Instructions are one of the best parts of Lego. I love to keep them and then look back at them over the years. It also keeps those already device-addicted children off devices, which is one of the good things about Lego. Nuh-uh. Never ever. DO NOT say yes to phasing out instructions!"
Fair argument. I do find the sustainability argument compelling however, I also agree that one of the major benefits of Lego as a hobby is that it it's an indoors past-time that doesn't involve staring at an electronic screen. I recently engaged in a shared build with my 10-year-old nephew (on a set that incorporated two instruction pamphlets, so that we could do different parts of the build in tandem), and it was a joy to finally see him involved in an activity that didn't involve playing Roblox or watching annoying YT videos, but actually required him to move away from staring at a screen. However strong the environmental argument, I feel we'll all lose something if TLG moves entirely to digital instructions (particularly for larger and more complex sets).
Ending printed instructions would be a disaster of epic proportions.
I stopped buying the Designer sets, even though they are lovely, because they did not have instructions.
It's just NOT FUN building from a tablet. No.
I would stop buying new sets. I have lots of unbuilt lovely sets sitting in storage that have nice printed instructions. They will last me for the next 10 years.
And by the way, one of things that has separated LEGO from the clones is quality instructions. Lose that, and give the clones another boost.
@WizardOfOss said:
"I suggest they also get rid of the bricks, and build it all virtually using digital instructions! That way we would never ever have to take our eyes off the screen!
BTW, maybe this is a regional thing, but that link not only triggers my adblocker, but also doesn't lead me to a survey involving instructions, or anything product related whatsoever."
Did you try logging on via your Lego Insiders account and going to the Activities page? It might be easier.
This is weird. The idea feels very half baked, and the survey itself is an awful mess of leading questions and half answers. It feels like this survey should not be public facing for the apparently very early stage of the concept. Frankly it makes the company look amateurish, which is very unusual.
I think it would be a huge mistake to ditch paper instructions, and it would be a logistics nightmare to make versions of sets with and without instructions or to package them in separately for a fee. Will it stop me buying Lego? Of course not. But I really think it's a bad idea to force phone usage into your fundamentally analogue product in a time when the zeitgeist is turning very hard against phones. I can't see this not putting some parents off.
Having rebuilt some sets recently after losing the instructions, this would kill my interest in new sets entirely. Squinting at digital instructions on a phone overheating from a poorly optimized app is as awful as it sounds, and not everyone has a phone. Paper is easily recycled and renewable, this is non-issue Lego is trying to solve for the sake of profit.
@AliveAndBricking said:
" @WizardOfOss said:
"I suggest they also get rid of the bricks, and build it all virtually using digital instructions! That way we would never ever have to take our eyes off the screen!
BTW, maybe this is a regional thing, but that link not only triggers my adblocker, but also doesn't lead me to a survey involving instructions, or anything product related whatsoever."
Did you try logging on via your Lego Insiders account and going to the Activities page? It might be easier."
I did. Same result: The membership survey others have mentioned, Facebook, and who are you shopping for. Nothing about instructions.
That's like saying they should stop building plastic Lego bricks because some end up in the ocean.
OUTRAGEOUS.
Saving the €nvirom€nt......
I’ve struggled with device addiction for a few years now, and LEGO is one of the best ways to combat that for me: I just put on my headphones, get a few podcasts queued up and start building with my phone on the other table. I probably can’t handle building off my phone.
Also, this is assuming every kid has their own phone or access to a computer: mum and dad probably won’t be happy having their devices taken off them every time their kid gets a new LEGO set.
I’m all for this! I’ve been downloading the pdf instructions and using my tablet for building for the last 7 years. Save the paper please!
Had to use an iPad to do the Darth Vader art as the instructions were digital only. It was awful, the screen turns off due to no activity as you are just viewing the screen.
Not sure why they don't phase out plastic bricks and just do it all digitally, buy a digital set and use your digital instructions to piece it together in a digital world.
I use a screen at the same time that I'm building Lego, but not for instructions; I pull up my Watch Later list on YouTube and listen to that while I build, since most of the videos I put on there don't require you to be watching through the whole video, and some don't really require it at all. I've also been known to have a movie playing while I build Lego, but a movie that I've seen enough times that I don't really need to be looking at the screen to follow the action. As to the survey, it needed to be better designed. As others have said, there needs to be a field where you could leave comments, and the "Who would you buy sets with digital-only instructions for" question needed to have an "I would not buy sets with digital-only instructions" option.
@WilsonPark said:
"If they took them out of the more expensive sets, I think they should include a voucher, which could be redeemed for either the printed instructions, or $5-10 off at a Lego store or lego.com. That might give them better data on how many people actually want the printed books. "
That is an excellent idea! You should drop Lego a line with that suggestion.
Earlier I joked they could also get rid of the bricks and instead just make it all virtual, but the more I think about it, the more benefits I start to see:
* For starters, don't we all have a lack of space, especially for those big sets? I mean, I really like the Concorde, but the only thing stopping me from buying it is that I have no way to properly display it. And that's been the case with so many sets.
* Then, virtual bricks can be adapted to our personal preferences. Don't like a certain set in blue? get it in red! Don't like blue Technic pins? You got them all black, or maybe even color matched? Do you want the insides to have all colors of the rainbow, or something matching the outside?
* Also, you don't like stickers? Everything is printed now! Or if you do prefer prints, do you want them clear backed, or with a background that's not quite the same color as the bricks? And they could even provide a tool that lets you put them on perfectly straight or slightly crooked, just how you want it.
* And think of the quality aspects. White bricks won't yellow anymore (unless you want them to), and inconsistent colors are a thing of the past (unless you like those variations). Mould marks can be as obvious or invisible just as you want it. Even with prints you can choose the opacity!
* You don't need a phone anymore to use Control+! Just use the virtual phone on the screen! And obviously never need fresh batteries.
* No need for a Brick Separator, that's another piece of plastic gone.
* When taking it all apart, you can easily put everything back into the numbered bags.
* No need to open the box, so every set you own will in fact remain MISB.
* And looking from the standpoint of Lego: Considering they can take the production cost out of the equation, they can easily lower the RRP with about 5% or so? And even better: now the boxes can be completely flat with nothing inside, they can also save on storage and transportation cost, which could be another 5% saving! Now look at that Jabba Barge, for which everyone seems to agree €500 is way too much. Now imagine that being a virtual set for just €450. Much better, right?
* Obviously TLG can now claim to be a 100% plastic free company!
* And best of all: Good luck stepping on a virtual Lego brick...
I honestly only see benefits....
Anyways, I feel like this is well-intentioned (lego has actually been pretty good when it comes to becoming more environmentally friendly), but poorly thought out idea.
@wronglook said:
"Happy with that! It’s really annoying to store them (when you have hundreds)"
Still better to have the inclusion and if not wanted you can chuck/recycle or reuse them in e.g log fire or home heating or as see fit.
The day they do away with Lego physical instructions really is the the day Lego is on its deathbed, the whole concept of Lego is something to do AWAY from tecnoligy/screens/games, an this move defeats the whole objective of building. Of course should you want to build digitally it should be as well as optinally and not forced into it. Also the day they go paperless they also is a blatent discrimination against those that are not tech savy e.g elderly, 3rd world country where they dont have technoligy.
Just like the flop/backlash of changes to card inner bags (ruined the experiance of seeing parts in bags/build in bags etc...) and also £$ sustainibility £$ was used to profiteer from CMF near impossible to tell the minifigure contents.
Also as of now (UK you get 20 VIP points for QR scan of instructons for sizable set). Still I have 100s of Lego instructions and you know you have them accessible and do not have technoligy getting in the way (same problem of interactive/smartphone Lego vs physical plug and play power functions). you can do whatever with all your instructions and maybe if its annoying to store them and you prefer to not store them you could have digital copies but with physical instructions you can futureproof them as long as they are readable (become damaged/faded etc...)
Once you do away with physical instructions it will outrage many fans, and they adding fuel to the fire outraging fans aready with many things, mainly overpricing/profiteering and poorer quality is common.
Lego needs to keep physical instructions, and if they cave into script/3rd parties/scemes/order/schemes they could keep them just make them smaller if anything.
@WizardOfOss said:
"Earlier I joked they could also get rid of the bricks and instead just make it all virtual, but the more I think about it, the more benefits I start to see:
* For starters, don't we all have a lack of space, especially for those big sets? I mean, I really like the Concorde, but the only thing stopping me from buying it is that I have no way to properly display it. And that's been the case with so many sets.
* Then, virtual bricks can be adapted to our personal preferences. Don't like a certain set in blue? get it in red! Don't like blue Technic pins? You got them all black, or maybe even color matched? Do you want the insides to have all colors of the rainbow, or something matching the outside?
* Also, you don't like stickers? Everything is printed now! Or if you do prefer prints, do you want them clear backed, or with a background that's not quite the same color as the bricks? And they could even provide a tool that lets you put them on perfectly straight or slightly crooked, just how you want it.
* And think of the quality aspects. White bricks won't yellow anymore (unless you want them to), and inconsistent colors are a thing of the past (unless you like those variations). Mould marks can be as obvious or invisible just as you want it. Even with prints you can choose the opacity!
* You don't need a phone anymore to use Control+! Just use the virtual phone on the screen! And obviously never need fresh batteries.
* No need for a Brick Separator, that's another piece of plastic gone.
* When taking it all apart, you can easily put everything back into the numbered bags.
* No need to open the box, so every set you own will in fact remain MISB.
* And looking from the standpoint of Lego: Considering they can take the production cost out of the equation, they can easily lower the RRP with about 5% or so? And even better: now the boxes can be completely flat with nothing inside, they can also save on storage and transportation cost, which could be another 5% saving! Now look at that Jabba Barge, for which everyone seems to agree €500 is way too much. Now imagine that being a virtual set for just €450. Much better, right?
* And best of all: Good luck stepping on a virtual Lego brick!
I honestly only see benefits...."
*Lego sees this comment and instantly hires you at a six figure salary*
Please, don't get rid of printed instructions
@Ephseb said:
"*Lego sees this comment and instantly hires you at a six figure salary*"
Six figure salary? That won't buy me a new Ferrari every year! My services don't come that cheap....
@Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Yes if anything they could save paper by having either less excess space round the build (for clarity) or have maybe better building instructions with more parts added (subjective to taget range). Also to note that the parts highlighted helps more it seems and maybe subsequently could help addign parts/could add more parts.
But doing away with instructions altogether is wrong on so many levels.
I regularly build from the PDF instructions, I’ve never tried the LEGO Builder App as I don’t have an iPad. The LEGO Builder App doesn’t appear to be available on my Kindle Fire tablets and I don’t fancy building a large or complex set from my phone screen.
I usually use a high resolution laptop screen (4K), I have built both UCS Millennium Falcon sets and other large sets from the PDFs, it works well for me in full screen with the right magnification in Adobe PDF viewer.
Removing paper instructions won’t impact me much personally (aside from space saving) but I can understand why people would be annoyed. Particularly if prices continue to go up at the same rate and paper instructions disappear.
I’d also question LEGOs ability to competently design and build a solution to handle the additional traffic this will bring. It should be straightforward, but the ‘queuing’ and site performance issues at the start of the month when high demand sets are released doesn’t inspire confidence in their IT team.
I have two issues with this survey:
1. For most of the questions, I just had to answer, "I've never used the digital instructions," instead of providing ways that would actually make me consider checking them out and then providing me an option to say, "Yes that does interest me," or "No, that does not interest me."
2. There isn't even a text box with a 2000-5000 character limit to let me voice my opinion directly to LEGO as to why I prefer using physical instructions.
Great points have been brought up in the comments here about how the current instructions have too many one-piece steps instead of actually providing a decent challenge in the building process with the age ranges. There are also reasonable concerns about the sustainability of the App, let alone folks that don't even have a decent screen from which to build from. There are also arguments for getting kids off of devices, and LEGO is one way to help do that.
I have no problem with alternate builds being digital, I have no need for fancy animations or being able to spin the model around digitally, those are there for people that are not me, but at least keep the main instructions physical. I understand the desire to be more sustainable, but the paper instructions are an important part of the LEGO experience, or at least they used to be more integral by providing images of alternate builds and providing challenges. If people don't want them, then the least they can do is put them in the recycling bin, but as for myself, since I deal a bit more in the collecting side these days, they are also part of my process of owning a set. I may not need the box, but I do need the instructions, and I'm not always going to have easy access to an App, the Internet, or a charged device to access the Instructions should I need to rebuild something.
The survey is very badly done. On question 4: if you were to buy set without instructions, who would it be for? There is not enough options here. I would choose: e) I would never buy Lego sets without paper instructions, not even for my worst enemy.
If Lego want to reduce paper, just make it a rule that each instruction step must include at least 10 new parts more is acceptable or welcome.
Me; One of the things I love about seeing my son build lego: it’s one of the only times he doesn’t want to be staring at a screen.
LEGO: We may make it mandatory for your child to stare at screen to build lego sets.
Not to mention I myself vastly prefer the booklets over using my phone to build. It’s no exaggeration to say we’ll cut back on our LEGO spending as a family if this happens.
@GusG said:
"Saving the €nvirom€nt......"
$u$tainable $ourcing...
The Lego online site can barely handle new product release dates with all of the demand that typically hits around then. How is it going to have the capacity to handle every customer trying to get on the site so they can access the instructions? Not my biggest problem with it as others have already covered my other concerns, but I do not like this at all.
But thats exactly the trap humainty if falling into, either go with it or be a outcast. What you say is so true but with everything digitised they brand it as "move with the times" or "sustainible" or whatever they say. No wonder they say we are ants/sheep/cattle/minions etc... They can create so-called "toilet roll shortage" when its a fabrication.
I think this would be arguably one of the most contraversial change as to doing away with instructions altogether, then Lego will lose many fans and get fans hooked subsidising more for the fans they losing. Half-baked decisions is what led to Lego nearly going bankrupt in the 2004-2005 era in case you may not know, doing away with instructions would be a majour damage to the brand however I feel like them doing away with instructions is a enevitibility/reason why they can keep fans in "see we havent done away with instructions...yet" on the otherhand in lie with many -ive schemes of man they probably already made the decision to do away with instrctions already (although why try to fix something that is not broke) and this press/lego website VIP survey is just a facade/bluff/blag as to the changes ahead, similarly to how a housing estate on your doorstep they downplay it and have meaningless/empty words, even employ "community colaborations" to hold meetings about any concerns/objections however no matter what you say/do if they get planning thats just a front/facade to hide the work behind the scenes. Like the proposed change to card PAB boxes/card CMF I most regret that this tip off is to say that the ship is sinking and the damage has been done and all the surveys/opinions/oureach to fans is just like rearanging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic, It looks like the begginning of the end for physical instructions, however if not already fored doing away with instructions with questionable agreements a majour backlash/losing too many customers maybe will force them to not do away with unstructions, more like kick that can further down the road. 1 thing for sure though the can of worms has officially been open by Lego.
Well, I'll just put it this way. I'd be considering reducing my money usage by switching to just building stuff with the bricks I already have.
Boy, if you really want to tick off a fanbase, take away something.
I'm in the camp that booklets could be shorter, especially City and that age group. I feel like even 5-6 year olds can deal with more than 1 piece per page.
How about this idea: When you order online, make the booklet an optional extra. Ship it in a little envelope. For non-Lego store purchases, allow them to order the same booklet online. Maybe they'll have to pay a little extra for shipping.
@Turbobricks said:
"But thats exactly the trap humainty if falling into, either go with it or be a outcast. What you say is so true but with everything digitised they brand it as "move with the times" or "sustainible" or whatever they say. No wonder they say we are ants/sheep/cattle/minions etc... They can create so-called "toilet roll shortage" when its a fabrication.
I think this would be arguably one of the most contraversial change as to doing away with instructions altogether, then Lego will lose many fans and get fans hooked subsidising more for the fans they losing. Half-baked decisions is what led to Lego nearly going bankrupt in the 2004-2005 era in case you may not know, doing away with instructions would be a majour damage to the brand however I feel like them doing away with instructions is a enevitibility/reason why they can keep fans in "see we havent done away with instructions...yet" on the otherhand in lie with many -ive schemes of man they probably already made the decision to do away with instrctions already (although why try to fix something that is not broke) and this press/lego website VIP survey is just a facade/bluff/blag as to the changes ahead, similarly to how a housing estate on your doorstep they downplay it and have meaningless/empty words, even employ "community colaborations" to hold meetings about any concerns/objections however no matter what you say/do if they get planning thats just a front/facade to hide the work behind the scenes. Like the proposed change to card PAB boxes/card CMF I most regret that this tip off is to say that the ship is sinking and the damage has been done and all the surveys/opinions/oureach to fans is just like rearanging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic, It looks like the begginning of the end for physical instructions, however if not already fored doing away with instructions with questionable agreements a majour backlash/losing too many customers maybe will force them to not do away with unstructions, more like kick that can further down the road. 1 thing for sure though the can of worms has officially been open by Lego."
What
Hope not, keep the Product the Product, keep the Digital optional.
A lot of improvements can be done on the format of booklets however, having many small books of different sizes in 1 set is just plain annoying (even if it's meant to build together).
A set like 60354 Mars Spacecraft Exploration Missions is an example how I'd feel about it, that set did not even have PDF instructions, and even if 50% the parts are not used for the build, the base model should at the very least not have required an app.
Now if LEGO wanted to "compensate" for this, switch to 100% printed bricks if they want to stop printing paper, also stop printing sticker sheets, but focus on a high quality brick printing method.
If they want to save some instructions, get rid of them for themes like Classic , also would save bags as they always have seperate numbered bags from the rest of the "bulk" that's usually thrown together by color pallette.
@legoDad42 said:
"I love the booklet instructions BUT if they get rid of printed instructions then the price of the model kits better drop.
I don’t want it like when they said oh do self check in at airports we’d have lower ticket price (airfares are higher than ever), and oh do self check out at stores and prices are higher than ever. "
Yes exactly self scans/automation/AI are argaubly one of the worst inventions but it al about micromanaging people and doing away with our freedoms/personal controll. But all organisations (as applicible) are under oath to force change upon us, for better or worse heading to a "cashless society", and we can see it unfolding before our very eyes, once everyone/everything goes cashless any physical money will be done away with and then everything becomes virtual and nobody will own anything or be faked. Evil and change to getting worse is how everything is going to state the obvious. However +ive change and people make note of changes for worse/backlash and people power can force change back for the better if there is enough people, e.g strength in numbers. For Lego there was enough backlash about card CMF (having customers no choice but to open them) not only from customers/fans/but resellers too, and Lego realised thier glaring error and put QR codes on (not advertised officially, unless I am mistaken) to gaurantee the right figure and then there was less ripped open boxes because of thier profiteering intentional design choice to have no realistic way to feel/find the right figure without opening the pack. Still people power and everyone sharing this and let Lego know its not a option they shouldent do it (unless they cave into evil world schemes of man), also another one was Lego breking rules by making Osprey/Notre-Dame (Notra Dame was not pulled however), folk should say where they are about this and if they wanted to. have a good day
And how much coal would be burned if we were all draining the grid to build 18+ sets? Hmm....
Oh please no, I hate this assumption that every child somehow has (or should have) an internet-enabled device. It's been annoying enough having to give mine up for Lego Mario, I don't want to have to do that for everything else. Digital instructions are fine for adults--I prefer those myself over digging up the paper--but that should be the exception and not the norm. Unless Lego is simply pivoting toward adults as their primary customer.
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
" @GusG said:
"Saving the €nvirom€nt......"
$u$tainable $ourcing..."
redu$e, reu$e, Re$ycle.
@b2_O said:
" @Murdoch17 said:
"if LEGO gets rid of instructions, it will hurt charities like FairyBricks hard, as I don't think hospitals are set up to deal with hundreds of sick kids suddenly needing tablets for building their free LEGO sets."
Fair point, I feel like exceptions will be made for charities and they may still be provided with paper instructions."
Unlikely. The complicated logistics of two versions of each set would destroy any savings.
Im very happy that at least my fellow Bricksetters agree this is an abomination. Theres been plenty of excellent points raised already so Ill just 200th those.
Sadly Lego will undoubtedly just label us selfish "nostalgia biased" AFOLs and do it anyway.
I remember the James May article where he seemed to think (which is also TLG's thinking) that its a straight choice between modern instructions that take a whole page just to show a piece (not even placing it) and 1970s instructions that are pure guesswork.
This of course completely and deliberating ignores like the 40 years in between (and certainly my lifetime of early 2000s-2010s) where we had normal instructions that were a perfectly reasonable balance between number of pieces/steps on a page, number of pages, and ease of building.
You only have to go back say 10 years ago (2014) to find a City or Creator set that was very easy to build for kids and first-time-builders without being the over the top USE YOUR HANDS nonsense we have now.
Id also just acknowledge Lego's rant when they released Dreamzz about kids and how they help kids and blah blah blah, if thats the case then they should be supporting parents to get kids away from screens. There's various scientific studies showing the mental and social issues that arise from staring at a screen 24/7.
terrible idea
@ra226 said:
"Oh please no, I hate this assumption that every child somehow has (or should have) an internet-enabled device. It's been annoying enough having to give mine up for Lego Mario, I don't want to have to do that for everything else. Digital instructions are fine for adults--I prefer those myself over digging up the paper--but that should be the exception and not the norm. Unless Lego is simply pivoting toward adults as their primary customer."
Its part of the script that is preplanned for the future world events and is a work in progress depending on how thier plan goes but evil knows no bounds, soon things like "book reading","hand writing","basic calulations e.g add up shopping price items" (without a calculator),"face to face conversations" will be a thing of the past which is terrifying, and people can become enslaved by thier devices and no wonder attention span can be limited to seconds sometimes, Lego was set out to make a "system" (integrated block building system) and building not on screens. Things are looking very dire now and "going digital" is the last stumbling block which can lead to our own self inflicted downfall, very sad
@WolfpackBricksOfficial said:
" @Chilis_no said:
"No. No! You almost made me quit Lego with the paper bags. I WILL quit if you take away the paper instructions. "
Paper bags were actually a good move
This is just greenwashing LEGO's obvious cost-cutting"
Paper bags yes.
Online instructions no
growing number of 18+ sets no
increased prices no
@Huw said:
"I consider ownership of the instructions as proof that I own the set."
It's helpful to keep them with a box of disassembled sets to make it easier to find out what sets are in there.
From a data analysis standpoint this is a very poorly made survey.
@ToxicAtom said:
"Everyone under this article keeps parroting "More time off devices is good!!!!!" but fail to back it up with a reason. A lot of the reason screen time is seen as a bad thing is because what's on the screen. Instructions on a device are no more damaging to your mental health or development than physical instructions. It's on the same caliber as saying reading e-books isn't reading because it's not ink-on-paper.
I have no objections to the other points against this change, I love my physical manuals too (even if I do find myself coming here and yoinking the PDFs for any build I do at my desk anyway.) I'm just tired of people saying "screen bad" without really backing it up.
Oh, and if this is about eye strain, that has been repeatedly disproved over the past decade. "
Eye strain from screen use is "disproved?" Where on earth did you get that notion from?
Literally every single article that comes up when you google the phrase "how many people get eye strain from screens" throws estimates ranging anywhere from 50-90% of people who regularly use screens experience it, from every single reputable medical journal on the web. It's well-established, irrefutable fact.
And I'm one of those people who gets eye strain (as in, literal physical pain) from prolonged screen usage, which can even progress into full-blown migraines if I don't stop using screens when I start feeling the eye strain.
I use Lego as my go-to hobby when I need time away from screens. It's one of my favorite things to do while recovering from a migraine. Forcing Lego instructions to become digital-only will literally remove the very reason I still buy and build Lego.
I have spent over $1200 on Lego this year- so far.
If TLG phases out paper instructions, I will drastically reduce buying new sets.
I'd just buy minifigures, mainly Star wars, from Bricklink or Bricks and Minifigs.
I won't stop building with Lego, I just won't buy new.
I don't enjoy looking at instructions on my phone, and I won't buy a device just for building Lego.
Edited to add: I've done the survey, and also emailed TLG directly to express my displeasure with this idea.
@jh84007 said:
"Seeing as the survey says "No, I can't image....." - one would presume instead of "imagine" - it is not a good start.
Or perhaps it's freudian, I certainly don't want to only "image" instructions.
And as someone above says, it's somewhat biased - when it says "if you were to buy a set without instructions", there should be an answer to say (again) "I won't ever buy a set with no instructions". Or at least an option not to answer.
Basically that question will be used by the research people to say "100% of respondents say they will buy sets without instructions""
Exactly I did the survey and found the same exact problem, that question is biased. Its like saying what would you do if you was going to do something you never would A,B,C (you answer and they like so you would do something only becasue we said you would). The survey seems like a facade and they can say 100% of people would buy Lego, then Lego makes the change and puts themself into a trap. Such a real shame
I find the survey to be intensely flawed, as it doesn't ask the questions I think people really want to answer.
While I am all about reducing material usage and limiting waste, I also find the fact that children are more and more on screens during their day troubling (I teach high school and see it every day).
I would say perhaps sets geared towards adults could be on a device, but sets geared towards kids must remain on paper. Especially since it would require a family to own a device to view the instructions - especially a tablet as a phone would be awful to build with. For the family that can rarely afford a Lego set, and may be unable to afford an even more expensive device, that would be a barrier to a much loved toy that is already quite expensive.
I think I shall be sending this along to Lego themselves.
@Nfrealinkling said:
"Paper is biodegradable, why is this a problem? So sad to see this might happen, I love reading through instructions of my old sets and getting rid of that would be a true tragedy"
Excellent question. The answer probably lies in that we, AFAIK, still cut down forest quicker than it can grow, and maintaining the forest is important for carbon reduction. However, it is worth asking how LEGO's papers influence this. Again AFAIK, deforestation is not a major issue in Scandinavia, but rather in the tropics, Africa & South America. . . I'm not too well-read on the subject, though.
That's fine by me, I already build all my sets via the PDF's on this site...
@TeriXeri said:
"Now if LEGO wanted to "compensate" for this, switch to 100% printed bricks if they want to stop printing paper, also stop printing sticker sheets, but focus on a high quality brick printing method."
Brilliant way of calling TLG's bluff and saying "If you're serious about sustainability and reducing paper, give us what we want (i.e. a win-win) and replace stickers with printed bricks." Genius. Someone please let TLG know because this is the best suggestion I've seen on this forum (although I appreciate that it only accounts for a fraction of the paper used in the instructions; still a significant reduction though).
no...
In a possible bleak future where computer/internet access is not guaranteed, this will make leftover physical Lego sets from this post-paper time period largely useless
@Brickchap said:
"I remember the James May article where he seemed to think (which is also TLG's thinking) that its a straight choice between modern instructions that take a whole page just to show a piece (not even placing it) and 1970s instructions that are pure guesswork."
If you want TLG to rethink a bad idea, just tell them that James May agrees with them.
Also, REALLY REALLY important point: How will I be able to get 20 extra LEGO Insiders member points, if I don't have a barcode to scan?!?
@Ridgeheart said:
"I mean, I hate my phone. I know where it's been. I don't want that nasty thing anywhere near my shiny bricks, and neither do you."
Went to site. My phone (as it usually does) included this well-phrased (and, edited) question:
"No, I can't image building without a paper building instruction"
Well done, Lego. 'Only the poorest writing is good enough.'
This is likely to be the sort of thing we'd experience more often if everything was digital. Less effort would be paid toward making sure things are correct because it can easily be corrected.
In other words, they'd run their online instruction operation as well as they run the rest of their online operation.
That never goes awry
They’ll feign environmentalism when in reality it’s just cost cutting. The most profitable toy company can’t seem to keep the same quality despite soaring prices. I’m done with LEGO.
Here's what I sent them via Contact Us after I sent the survey:
"I'm having to send this comment this way since the Insider survey on discontinuing printed instructions didn't offer a comment box.
If printed instructions are discontinued, so is my household's business. Please make whoever came up with this extremely bad idea aware of how THEY will personally cost LEGO a multi-generational family of loyal customers doing about a thousand dollars' worth of purchases between D2C and retail channels every year if you do this. If we wanted to take our hobbies digital we'd quit buying physical bricks and switch to MLCAD or similar CAD program but NOT the annoying Studio. Plus, my mother has a lifetime in Information Technology and sees daily time with paper directions and bricks as her break from having to be at a keyboard dealing with the complete insanity of Fortune 100 Corporate IT.
Sincerely disappointed,
[name redacted]
four-decade loyal customer
@WizardOfOss said:
" @Jesse_S_T said:
"When was the last time you’ve taken a good look at those 80s/90s instructions? I recently built a lot of Lego from vintage bulk I bought. Lots of technic and castle. Those instructions are awful. You have to be extremely perceptive of every piece added each step since it’s sometimes a dozen or more parts at a time. 99% of the books don’t even call out what part is used in each step. Lego has come a long way in making their instructions accessible to most people."
I still have the paper instructions of my 8865, which was a 900 piece set, yet had a 36 page instruction booklet....for building the A-model, the B-model and for motorizing the latter one. And was perfectly adequate both when I built it as a 10 year old, and still fine when I did so a couple of years ago when I came out of my dark ages. I'd say look them up and tell me what parts seem confusing to you."
Your comment comes off as ableist. 8865 is an advanced set for the time (possibly most advanced of that year?). I’m happy you didn’t struggle with it in 1988 at age 10, but not everyone has developed the same levels of skills or ability to comprehend detailed instructions at that age. Each step adds dozens of parts with multiple subsections simultaneously built. The books design is very similar in style as the repair manual for my 1999 Nissan truck.
There’s a good reason similar level technic sets from the modern era have instructions that are more clear with way more pages. Those changes were all thanks to feedback from consumers that did not like how unclear those old books were! Don’t you think they would’ve kept shorter books around to save costs if consumers could understand them clearly? Just because you aren’t the demographic that needs clearer steps, doesn’t mean you can talk down to those who may have struggled —that is ableist.
@Hellscream said:
"That's fine by me, I already build all my sets via the PDF's on this site..."
You must be the only person in existence who builds new sets via a PDF.
How many of the kids who fit into the target age of things like City, Friends etc (4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) have devices they can use for building? How many would their parents let use a device? (say a parent's device)
How many parents specifically like/buy LEGO because it gets kids AWAY from screens and devices?
@xprojected said:
"Boy, if you really want to tick off a fanbase, take away something.
I'm in the camp that booklets could be shorter, especially City and that age group. I feel like even 5-6 year olds can deal with more than 1 piece per page.
How about this idea: When you order online, make the booklet an optional extra. Ship it in a little envelope. For non-Lego store purchases, allow them to order the same booklet online. Maybe they'll have to pay a little extra for shipping. "
I kids in the 70s could build sets with those instructions back then, surely kids today can!
@Maxbricks14 said:
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely NOT! Instructions are one of the best parts of Lego. I love to keep them and then look back at them over the years. It also keeps those already device-addicted children off devices, which is one of the good things about Lego. Nuh-uh. Never ever. DO NOT say yes to phasing out instructions!"
Since I am an educator, I definitely concur here. As a child fan of LEGO (now an adult), I too enjoy being able to 'disconnect' from the electronic world when I pull out a LEGO set. I think children also need that as well. Plus, I am sure at some point if all instructions go digital, it would not be too long before advertisements creep in somewhere. It is inevitable.
I didn't grow up around on devices, I grew up around Lego, because they knew that devices would have effects and they were right. Devices encourage laziness, boredom, and many other things, but Lego encourages creativity and fun.
@calculus_teacher said:
" @Maxbricks14 said:
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely NOT! Instructions are one of the best parts of Lego. I love to keep them and then look back at them over the years. It also keeps those already device-addicted children off devices, which is one of the good things about Lego. Nuh-uh. Never ever. DO NOT say yes to phasing out instructions!"
Since I am an educator, I definitely concur here. As a child fan of LEGO (now an adult), I too enjoy being able to 'disconnect' from the electronic world when I pull out a LEGO set. I think children also need that as well. Plus, I am sure at some point if all instructions go digital, it would not be too long before advertisements creep in somewhere. It is inevitable. "
Governments are slowly realising devices are bad. They have banned phones in schools here in NZ, which is a good step.
A lot of people who are talking about the tactile pleasures of paper should go a step further and try touching some grass.
@Maxbricks14 said:
...I kids in the 70s could build sets with those instructions back then, surely kids today can!]]
Not necessarily. In the 70's, there were very few parts that came on left or right versions: the 4x4 wing plate, the 4x8, and a bigger one, I think it was 6x12 or thereabouts. A couple of doors. Also no curved slopes, few slopes at all, in fact.
Today, we have 1x1 tound plates in two styles: solid stud and hollow stud.
So, a little more clarity in the instructions is needed, but they certainly could be condensed cosiderably.
@Chilis_no said:
"No. No! You almost made me quit Lego with the paper bags. I WILL quit if you take away the paper instructions. "
Exactly I had a very heartsinking moment when I saw and even more experianced firsthand the change to paper bags. I got the UP house (ASDA UK it was £50>£22 and even down to £17 with asda app rewards) and my dad (60+ odd) got it for himself for a change, not me to build and he was shocked at the paper bags and how Lego has caved into the tosh of sustainibility and dident then feel as much of wanting to build the Lego set as not seeing the parts in the clear sealed bag was a big turn off. and I said that it was a recent change and it felt like the infamous Mcdonalds Milkshake straws, they changed from plastic to paper straws that actually disintigrate and not fit for use (the liquid makes straw fall apart and milkshake block and fold in the straw) and Lego is all about greed and people pulling strings. I let him build it (with help from me) but the taking away the instructions is the last straw! and Lego make it sound like its just a tiny change yet half-baked/mindless decisions can be the downfall of Lego. So sad Lego is alienated from its audiance and works in its own bubble and has influences and schemes running them if this is not self inflicted/greed. My dad hated the paper bags and pour the parts out the fun has gone.
Also R.I.P build in the bags
They will lose many Lego fans taking away instructions
Pardon the language, but hell no.
If I pay for a LEGO set, I’m dropping a lot of money. I expect everything I need to enjoy the set to be in the box. I should NOT have to pull out an electronic device (which are arguably much more devastating to the environment than paper instructions) just to enjoy something I already paid for.
I don’t care if the instructions are free. I build LEGO because I’m SICK of always being on my phone, on a computer, or burning out my eyes because every freaking thing decided it needed some fancy app or website. The LAST THING I want is to need MORE SCREENS in this hobby.
Also, LEGO, cut the crap. We all know another reason you’re really considering this is because you can save a whole bunch of money not having to make paper instructions. Let me ask you this. If the instructions were so unsustainable, why do you make the big fancy instruction booklets in the larger sets? You know, the one with nicer paper, even more ink, and sometimes plastic spiral bindings? It’s bad enough sets like the Sail Barge don’t have everything included when they should, but now you aren’t even allowed to build the set without a digital device?
Also, let me bring up the fact that outside of Mario, LEGO apps are usually failures. Hidden Side, Nexo Knights, VIDIYO, LEGO sucks at making software. And now they’re going to demand you use software to enjoy the product they paid for? I don’t even like using the app for Mario! That’s why I stopped buying those sets!
If LEGO does this, they will just cheapen their product and I will actively dread building. I HATE using digital instructions. I sure don’t want it to be the norm because the billion dollar company wanted to save a few bucks!
@560heliport said:
[[ @Maxbricks14 said:
...I kids in the 70s could build sets with those instructions back then, surely kids today can!]]
Not necessarily. In the 70's, there were very few parts that came on left or right versions: the 4x4 wing plate, the 4x8, and a bigger one, I think it was 6x12 or thereabouts. A couple of doors. Also no curved slopes, few slopes at all, in fact.
Today, we have 1x1 tound plates in two styles: solid stud and hollow stud.
So, a little more clarity in the instructions is needed, but they certainly could be condensed cosiderably.
]]
True that. Maybe i'm being a bit tough on the kids of today.
I just built 60407 Double Decker Sightseeing Bus. 72 out of the 129 steps had 1 or 2 pieces per step. Including 1 destination tike per step. That’s beyond ridiculous. Even the 3 & 4 piece steps could’ve been pushed together some. Like the top row, you put 1 grille & 1 chair on 5 times over as many pages. All of that could’ve & should’ve been one step.
I hope I'm not duplicating other comments, but I wouldn't mind having the *option* of not buying a set with printed instructions, or even the *option* of ordering printed instructions from TLG after buying a set. I'm reasonably happy using a downloadable PDF rather than a printed set, and I don't feel that using a cheap laptop to display the PDF while building is very different from using printed innstructions. I would really *not* like having to use a specific app, especially not one that prioritized being able to zoom and rotate, or one with "fun activities," or anything other than a simple downloadable PDF. If they continue to offer the free PDFs and give extra Insider points or discounts for buying sets from Lego.com without printed instructions, I'd probably consider the idea. Anything else--not interested. Sadly, the survey didn't offer anywhere to write in a detailed comment like what I have written here.
@Librarian1976 said:
"Switching from print to digital instructions would serve as a major impediment to my ability to enjoy LEGO as my hobby. I am an Orthodox Jew who does not use electronic technology on the Sabbath, which is often the one day of the week when I am able to relax with my LEGO hobby. This would be terrible for me and others like me.
I also agree with all of the previous posters who point out (a) how LEGO should be an escape from screen time, not something that adds to it; and (b) the potential for unequal access to LEGO due to adequate technology not necessarily being financially available to those with a lower economic status."
An interesting perspective. I hadn’t thought of that particular cultural belief that would really impede a hobby you love. I think many of the commenters gain enjoyment from unplugging from technology to build LEGO, so can certainly identify with you on that level. I certainly have concerns that my son needs his screen time limited (as do most children) and this is one of the hobbies he enjoys that doesn’t need a screen.
I think I personally would continue buying Lego if only PDF instructions were available. Note I don't say digital, I do not want a poorly written, unsupported app that takes forever to load, has no sorting capabilities and requires a constant internet connection to an insecure overloaded server. But if I can download a PDF I'd probably buy a dedicated large android tablet and build a library of instructions on it. I wouldn't be happy, mind you, like many commentators above I build Lego to escape screens, and I don't believe any cost savings would materialize.
BUT there is absolutely no way I'd give my daughter a phone or tablet, so that means no Lego purchases for her, so I'd probably have to cut my own to be fair. So we'd just keep building and moc'ing the sets we have, no new sales to Lego if this happens.
LEGO clearly isn't bothered for our opinions here in NZ as the link isn't live.
@Ephseb said:
" @WizardOfOss said:
"Earlier I joked they could also get rid of the bricks and instead just make it all virtual, but the more I think about it, the more benefits I start to see:
* For starters, don't we all have a lack of space, especially for those big sets? I mean, I really like the Concorde, but the only thing stopping me from buying it is that I have no way to properly display it. And that's been the case with so many sets.
* Then, virtual bricks can be adapted to our personal preferences. Don't like a certain set in blue? get it in red! Don't like blue Technic pins? You got them all black, or maybe even color matched? Do you want the insides to have all colors of the rainbow, or something matching the outside?
* Also, you don't like stickers? Everything is printed now! Or if you do prefer prints, do you want them clear backed, or with a background that's not quite the same color as the bricks? And they could even provide a tool that lets you put them on perfectly straight or slightly crooked, just how you want it.
* And think of the quality aspects. White bricks won't yellow anymore (unless you want them to), and inconsistent colors are a thing of the past (unless you like those variations). Mould marks can be as obvious or invisible just as you want it. Even with prints you can choose the opacity!
* You don't need a phone anymore to use Control+! Just use the virtual phone on the screen! And obviously never need fresh batteries.
* No need for a Brick Separator, that's another piece of plastic gone.
* When taking it all apart, you can easily put everything back into the numbered bags.
* No need to open the box, so every set you own will in fact remain MISB.
* And looking from the standpoint of Lego: Considering they can take the production cost out of the equation, they can easily lower the RRP with about 5% or so? And even better: now the boxes can be completely flat with nothing inside, they can also save on storage and transportation cost, which could be another 5% saving! Now look at that Jabba Barge, for which everyone seems to agree €500 is way too much. Now imagine that being a virtual set for just €450. Much better, right?
* And best of all: Good luck stepping on a virtual Lego brick!
I honestly only see benefits...."
*Lego sees this comment and instantly hires you at a six figure salary*"
Lol Lego hires you on the spot with the idea of virual Lego, reminds me of those people that had a website where you click a button on website for £ and it claims your life be better, with no proof or it actually doing anything lol other then the sense it maybe somehow made the stars align for you. I think we need a El Risitas Parody (A laughing man intervieiew on the internet/youtube, its the same video but the foregn language subtitles are changed) maybe any video editior could make a youtube risitas parody like "Away from screen Lego cancels its away from screen instructions" lol
I'm very pro-paper instructions; it's absurd to expect kids to have a tablet, I hate reading instructions on my phone, and the few times I have read instructions on my phone it's been unpleasant.
I've also noticed the quality of instructions have gone downhill; I've had several sets lately where the images have shown later steps, and my copy 60409 had an entire bag's worth of instructions missing and replaced with repeats of earlier pages, so I had to go through the miserable experience of building from a PDF for that bag (sullying the experience of building what is otherwise one of the best set's I've ever owned)
I like having printed instructions, but mainly because without the box, the instruction, and the bricks, I don't consider it to be a complete set. I use the PDF for anything larger than a polybag though. Therefore I would grudgingly accept a PDF only, with a suitable monetary enticement. However, the day that they make it 'Builder App' only is the day I stop buying Lego.
The only way I would consider it is if the price on sets went down too. If the Sail Barge, for example, was $475 instead of $500, yeah that's fine. But if they're gonna charge the same amount and no paper instructions, then I can't see myself continuing to buy sets.
Go Woke, Go Broke
Why Lego make this a problem all of a sudden when it was not really a problem, think they caved into the sustainibility bandwaggen, just like Mcdonalds plastic to card straws that was not fit for purpose.
Lego fans watch this disaster unfold.
Lego set buyer "right I got you that Lego set you wanted"
Lego set builder "hang on they forgot the instructions"
Lego set buyer "oh thats another thing thats gone digital"
Lego set builder "How we mak it then"
Lego set buyer "I dont know maybe ring the shop, shouldent of got it now. maybe back on your screen"
Most of the time I build from online PDFs. But I was disappointed that option wasn't available for the 8n1 Batman Brickheadz and had to use the app on my phone. Not a fan of that.
The one concern would be, no internet or no electricity, no building a non-printed instruction set.
I know a lot of people prefer building from paper instructions. I sometimes will build a small set using paper instructions while watching TV.
This is a terrible idea. The physical instructions are crucial to the experience of building a Lego set for the first time. People can already use the app if they want. Don't take them away. I don't want one more thing I need electronics for. I won't be buying Legos for my kids if it means forced screen time.
I prefer paper instructions & will always preferentially select sets with instructions when buying second-hand (unless I am purchasing for parts). I am also wary of losing access to stored files when operating systems are updated, having had that experience with a digital vs paper magazine subscription. I assume Lego, being a vastly bigger company should be able to provide indefinite access to old files though.
If they do go digital, I would prefer high quality pdf’s that can be downloaded on to a range of devices and used without requiring an internet connection. Anything else is sub-optimal.
@560heliport said:
"I have spent over $1200 on Lego this year- so far.
If TLG phases out paper instructions, I will drastically reduce buying new sets.
I'd just buy minifigures, mainly Star wars, from Bricklink or Bricks and Minifigs.
I won't stop building with Lego, I just won't buy new.
I don't enjoy looking at instructions on my phone, and I won't buy a device just for building Lego.
Edited to add: I've done the survey, and also emailed TLG directly to express my displeasure with this idea."
Thats great, I think a passionate email to Lego should be more meaningfull if it is not blatenetly ignored/unread.
I had a Lego store PAB piece (1x3 plate with clips on end in DBG) with faulty underside connection (maybe you have the same as it does not hold mini peg e.g friends hat/flame piece) and they sent all 103x replacement after some engagement they sent those parts and then some (for a personal lego ideas project that never won/materialsed :( a gaznia flower) but once they sent the parts I gave them some other advice/ideas that as soon as I gave them (add degree on angled connectors especially with new slight angle) but once they sent the parts the Lego customer service sounded like it was case done/case closed.
I could help them in many ways but I think it depends largely on who recieves your response and if it is passed onto the right people (wine was part 79987 mould technicians) but yours be the people regarding thinking of the phasing of paper instructions.
I also contacted Lego about a major price glitch of their online PAB letting me buy "factory" prices and also had "consumer pricing" with dirt cheap chihuwas at 13p each vs £2.50+ each. and a Lego representitive looked into my acount to rule out the intermittent error and they said that they dont report/chase up comments/feedback unless many also have the same problem, so all I can say is yours (very much appreciate you trying) could be seen and maybe not acted but if many people personally respond to Lego they more likeley to chase up/take voices into consideration.
Good luck and hear anything I think we may like to see what they say, or maybe they give you something for getting in touch (maybe thats why people dont bother doing surveys. Good luck
@stefwaffles said:
"Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.]
You have to use the app for the Batman 8in1 Brickheadz sets (for 7 of the 8 versions)...there is no PDF option. I worry that they'll do more of that.
"
No, please no. Over-reliance on digital media is asking for trouble.
I have nothing to add that hasn't been said, but want to be on the record.
No, absolutely not.
No that would be idiotic. I'm not going to build lego next to my computer or try and zoom in to build on a phone. Do they they every ADFOL or kid just has an iPad they can have beside them at all time.
@Reg said:
"LEGO clearly isn't bothered for our opinions here in NZ as the link isn't live."
They don't seem bothered by us at all! They ignore us, release sets here later the overseas, only give us a few Lego stores, no polybags... The list goes on!
But they did give us that America's cup yacht set, which was kind of them.
I personally love using the free LEGO builder app. I mainly use the PDF option for the instructions and not the 3D versions. I moved away from the paper booklets because I find them too big and floppy to keep in a decent spot where I usually build my LEGO sets. I also don’t keep them and just recycle everyone I get. I find it more convenient to have my iPad with the instructions on it and I can set that near me a lot easier. Plus when I am building I am only looking at the screen for a bit for the next step. I would say most of my building time is spent on the set itself, looking for the next pieces, assembling the set, scrutinizing/admiring the process of the build, etc. Definitely not a lot of time glued to a screen even with digital instructions.
Dear LEGO,
While I really appreciate the thought of wanting to help reduce waste, I would ask you to not do this. I agree with so many people above, that I spend a lot on Lego, I would say well into the thousands of dollars a year, and it's something I love to share with my daughter too. That would change if you eliminate paper instructions. Please just don't do this. I can not stress enough how much building Lego is an experience, that you will significantly alter if you take away one of the most basic parts of building Lego. Yes, I can download some instructions, but the hassle can not be underestimated. And the degree to which this changes the experience is significant.
I ask you to listen to the people who buy your product, and are loyal fans. I hope the messages keep coming, and you hear us. Thank you for the D&D minifigures and the Mimic! For Bara-Dur and the Fell Beast. For The Simpsons sets (can we have more?) and Star Wars and Icons and Ideas. But please dont take away instructions. Your product is an alternative to digital screens, please dont change that.
It was a tough pill to swallow when you raised prices. This is just a bad idea. Bad.
Sincerely,
A long time loyal fan.
Awesome! My wife will be thrilled! I'll FINALLY be able to break my habit of avaricious Lego purchasing! Thanks to my extreme aversion to software being installed anywhere it's not an absolute necessity, combined with Lego inventing the appalling app brick, I was able to break my habit of purchasing every Technic set every year, along with a handful of others that also contain that abomination. I've already got more Lego sets than I'll probably ever be able to build in my lifetime, so Lego coming up with a solution like this that makes it easy for me to stop purchasing their products is truly a godsend!
I've done the survey. It's a hard NO for me. I build at my dinner table and i don't own a tablet. I do not intend to buy one, or have the instructions open on my PC 3 meters away.
Are you reading this, LEGO Group? If you stop including paper instructions, i stop buying your products.
I'd bought some Bricklink Designer Program sets (Safe, Pursuit of Flight), and sold them immediately when i opened them and found out the instructions were digital.
@Rabrickzel said:
"Many people here say they'll stop buying if this happens, but will you really?"
Me personally, yes. I doubt any other people here would have the same problem (mine is incredibly specific), but digital-only instructions for all sets would outright make it impossible for me to engage in the hobby properly, not just as a mere inconvenience. A literal deal-breaker by definition.
I echo every sentiment above/below in opposition to their suggestion. LEGO is a premium product and no amount of greenwashing will make me believe for a second this is a choice out of environmental concern (and if it truly is, there are alternative paper sources).
The physical instruction is essential to my own building experience, to the point where I have limited my purchase of the LEGO Super Mario theme out of frustration for the lack of physical instructions. They are an essential part of the hobby, one the strives to be an alternative to an all-digital lifestyle (I doubt LEGO would like us to stop purchasing physical sets, would they?)
no way
1st - LEGO wont be cheaper for sure
2nd - duck the phones, screens too small for it and building at PC is a no go
btw, why there isnt a pool here? To show them the foolishness?
@sklamb said:
"I hope I'm not duplicating other comments, but I wouldn't mind having the *option* of not buying a set with printed instructions, or even the *option* of ordering printed instructions from TLG after buying a set. I'm reasonably happy using a downloadable PDF rather than a printed set, and I don't feel that using a cheap laptop to display the PDF while building is very different from using printed innstructions. I would really *not* like having to use a specific app, especially not one that prioritized being able to zoom and rotate, or one with "fun activities," or anything other than a simple downloadable PDF. If they continue to offer the free PDFs and give extra Insider points or discounts for buying sets from Lego.com without printed instructions, I'd probably consider the idea. Anything else--not interested. Sadly, the survey didn't offer anywhere to write in a detailed comment like what I have written here."
This is why I sent mine as an email to Customer Service. If enough of us write in and gripe in close proximity, that is what is known in Marketing circles as "A Clue."
Back in the '80s and '90s, we called the response this calls for "Melt The Phones"--it usually means a politician has done something so controversially bad that the volume of calls to Congressvermin in opposition was more than the US Capitol phone-operator switchboard could handle. Today's equivalent is "have everyone you know who agrees write in and fill the inboxes."
Wait til they completely replace physical bricks with virtual ones and DLC...
And what happens in 10 to 20 years time, when the app is no longer supported and it becomes impossible to rebuild the sets?
Printed instructions add to the sense of quiet mindfulness. I spend 9 to 10 hours a day staring at a screen for my job, I certainly don't want anymore screen time in the evening.
VERY BAD IDEA!!!
Next: No prints on minifigs :D
Oh this is gonna backfire horribly
@b2_O said:
"I have ammended my comment to state that I have retracted my statement. Sorry for the confusion!
Also, cool username!"
Thank you.
And sorry, I didn't see the amendment before I replied.
Maybe they should stop catering to people who can not understand instructions if they have to place more than 2 bricks in the same step. On 60424 they spent 44 pages to build 92 pieces together.
I filled in the survey but had to lie in one answer, the question about who I would buy a LEGO set without printed instructions for. I wouldn't buy one, but that was not an option. I'm not a fan of the lack of printed instructions in BDP sets but it is a necessary evil there. But in official sets, there is no reason aside from cost cutting.
LEGO bangs on abut the longevity and compatibility of vintage bricks, but paper instructions also last for years if looked after. I have lots from the 70s and 80s. What is the environmental cost of having servers on to deliver instructions for the next 50 years, plus every user having to use a device or computer each time they want to build a set?
I suppose for proof of ownership they could include a watermarked certificate with the QR code to register for points.
@MegaBlocks said:
"Had to use an iPad to do the Darth Vader art as the instructions were digital only. It was awful, the screen turns off due to no activity as you are just viewing the screen."
You know you can quite easily change this in your iPad settings, right? This isn’t a Lego digital building experience issue.
I'd believe that LEGO would be doing this for environmental reasons if they also:
stopped doing the printed LEGO life magazine
stopped partnering with publishing companies to do multiple monthly printed comics
cut down box sizes, even though this reduces the shelf presence
stopped producing premium coffee table books and instead made those as ebooks only
stopped all paper advertising
That is all paper based but they could also:
stop doing LEGO House exclusives and maybe even close down the physical museum as that draws people from all over the world to travel to Denmark, when this information could all be digital
cut out executive travel
@sbpyrat said:
[[ @stefwaffles said:
[[Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.]
You have to use the app for the Batman 8in1 Brickheadz sets (for 7 of the 8 versions)...there is no PDF option. I worry that they'll do more of that.
]]]]
Oh great, I've just ordered them and don't have a smart phone as I haven't had the need to.
I'm probably not the best judge of this, as I just recycle 90% of my instructions almost as soon as I've built the set.
@stefwaffles said:
"Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.
The best experience for building digitally is surely on a tablet, and it doesn’t need to be a good or expensive one. Easy to put on stand and legible in all lighting.
I don’t think children’s sets should lose their instructions, but honestly anyone with the budget for multiple 18+ sets can presumably afford a cheap tablet?"
If they stop doing printed instructions, then they might go down the route of no PDFs as they won't need to be typeset for printing. Instead just use the 3D model to create app based instructions.
For more expensive sets, it is not about being able to buy a tablet. It is more about paying a premium price for an inferior product.
What's next, replacing physical Lego bricks with a 3D vertual reality experience? I'm all for sustainability, but please don't take away the value of the Lego set and the experience of it.
We are asked to "Help us decide the future of LEGO Building Instructions!" for *sustainable* buildings and on the same day, reading about partnership with Formula one. No contradiction, not at all.
@wronglook said:
"Happy with that! It’s really annoying to store them (when you have hundreds)"
Man, I wish I was this rich to have that kind of problems...
I'm more okay with that IF they make it available on PC too (and with high quality)
I hate using my phone to look at instructions, they need to provide more options if they stop doing paper instructions
At a time when when there are more and more concerns about the amount of screen time kids are getting, LEGO are apparently intending to... worsen that?
How does this make any sense?
Oh yeah, saving costs on the production and manufacture of printed instructions. But I'm not going to believe for one second that that would lead to lower prices, the only way is up for LEGO in that regard.
You know what would be the most insulting thing?
They remove printed instructions, but they tell you that you can still have them.
By printing them yourself.
At your own expense.
I am beginning to think LEGO's obsession with licences is costing them such a pretty penny, that they're cutting and slashing in every other department, while increasing prices, to keep the profit margins going up.
Yes, LEGO are a for-profit company, they have to make money, but they were the "good guys" of the toy industry 15 years ago and were still making money.
Now they are little better than Hasbro.
@CCC said:
"I filled in the survey but had to lie in one answer, the question about who I would buy a LEGO set without printed instructions for. I wouldn't buy one, but that was not an option. I'm not a fan of the lack of printed instructions in BDP sets but it is a necessary evil there. But in official sets, there is no reason aside from cost cutting.
LEGO bangs on abut the longevity and compatibility of vintage bricks, but paper instructions also last for years if looked after. I have lots from the 70s and 80s. What is the environmental cost of having servers on to deliver instructions for the next 50 years, plus every user having to use a device or computer each time they want to build a set?"
me too - there should have been an option to say I wouldn't buy such a set
nooooooooooooooo
what if you have no power.....
your in middle camping no power
farm no power
a country no power
your power goes out
we can get instructions from lego digitaly already
I thought basics lego was not have rely on power... example lincoln logs
or does lego not care what happened during WW2 anymore.
1932 to 1945 bet they lost power sometimes.
@PeterT_AFOL said:
[[ @sbpyrat said:
[[ @stefwaffles said:
[[Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.]
You have to use the app for the Batman 8in1 Brickheadz sets (for 7 of the 8 versions)...there is no PDF option. I worry that they'll do more of that.
]]]]
Oh great, I've just ordered them and don't have a smart phone as I haven't had the need to. ]]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another issue, what if no tablet or smartphone, how many familys alllow there kids smartphones at such young age... Terrible ideal for many familys
My initial thought is I don't like it. But I would adapt.
@Jesse_S_T said:
" @WizardOfOss said:
" @Jesse_S_T said:
"When was the last time you’ve taken a good look at those 80s/90s instructions? I recently built a lot of Lego from vintage bulk I bought. Lots of technic and castle. Those instructions are awful. You have to be extremely perceptive of every piece added each step since it’s sometimes a dozen or more parts at a time. 99% of the books don’t even call out what part is used in each step. Lego has come a long way in making their instructions accessible to most people."
I still have the paper instructions of my 8865, which was a 900 piece set, yet had a 36 page instruction booklet....for building the A-model, the B-model and for motorizing the latter one. And was perfectly adequate both when I built it as a 10 year old, and still fine when I did so a couple of years ago when I came out of my dark ages. I'd say look them up and tell me what parts seem confusing to you."
Your comment comes off as ableist. 8865 is an advanced set for the time (possibly most advanced of that year?). I’m happy you didn’t struggle with it in 1988 at age 10, but not everyone has developed the same levels of skills or ability to comprehend detailed instructions at that age. Each step adds dozens of parts with multiple subsections simultaneously built. The books design is very similar in style as the repair manual for my 1999 Nissan truck.
There’s a good reason similar level technic sets from the modern era have instructions that are more clear with way more pages. Those changes were all thanks to feedback from consumers that did not like how unclear those old books were! Don’t you think they would’ve kept shorter books around to save costs if consumers could understand them clearly? Just because you aren’t the demographic that needs clearer steps, doesn’t mean you can talk down to those who may have struggled —that is ableist."
This was indeed one of the most advanced sets at the time. So yeah, there might have been a bit of a learning curve involved. Which is common with most hobbies. I mean, my first ever jigsaw puzzle wasn't a 10.000 piece one depicting 101 Dalmatians. My first ever soduko wasn't 7* difficulty level (I still struggle with those...). My first ever model train wasn't some complicated brass kit. Is it "ableist" such products even exist? I'd say no, since there are also entry level versions of the same thing.
So why should every single Lego set be considered a 4+ entry level set? That 8865 wasn't my first Technic set either. A few years before, probably at age 7, I tried to build the 8860 from my much older cousin....and unsurprisingly failed spectecularly. Did that put me completely off Technic? No. Soon after that, I got a small starter set 8020 (the real shame here is that Lego doesn't do such sets anymore!), and worked my way up from there. And in a later attempt I did succeed in building 8860, which was challenging, to say the least. But mastering the learning curve apparently made me ableist?
I'm not saying those instructions can't be improved, they probably can. But would it absolutely be neccessary to make it a 300 page booklet, as they would nowadays? I'd say there's some middle ground here. And hey, maybe here the digital instructions can play a role: Printed instructions for the average builder according to the age demographic, and more detailed instructions (or an app) online for those who need some more guidance (or just want to skip any learning curve).
I thought vidyo and hidden side were busted because ppl didn't have smartphones for the apps (or not smart enough or wrong brand...) but to force feed your TG into this... maybe we can see a comeback of hidden side, I wish
@Kyrryn said:
"It is interesting to me that eliminating paper instructions, thereby increasing the use of electronics, is automatically considered more sustainable. Coal is the source of electricity in many, many places, and unlike trees it is not renewable. There are not enough resources on planet earth to create enough solar panels to power the planet's current energy consumption, to say nothing of solar's marginal current capacity. Wind power is a tiny percent overall, etc. Lithium mining (to name a single source component of batteries/devices, of which there are many more), is absolutely terrible to the environment and certainly not an unlimited resource here on earth. Increasing the reliance on lithium specifically, and electronics more generally, is not automatically sustainable.
This conversation about sustainability is problematic in a similar way to the one surrounding electric cars. Consider that many countries use coal to generate effectively 100% of their electricity. Moving the source of the pollution from "point source" (your car) to "non-point source" (the coal powered electricity plant) hasn't actually reduced the pollution generated. It's just moved the location of that pollution.
My point, generally, is that to have a real conversation about sustainability it's necessary to include all the resources used into consideration. I've only gestured at some of there here, but hopefully enough to make the point that using fewer trees = good is too simple an analysis. "
Yes, yes and yes.
Many people don't realize what goes into their phone or (lithium) batteries. Switching to online instuctions means more screentime for children. It ALSO means more children worldwide digging for cobalt and gold, to put in our sacred devices. And you better hope the mine is sturdy enough, but whatever, every once in a while a mine collapses, it's already calculated in the final cost, and in third world countries the death of a child is not that big a deal, right?
I'm all for taking action to make this world a cleaner place, both for ourselves and for the people and animals that come after us, but to me this seems more like a matter of not taking full responsibility for being sustainable on TLG's part. By suggesting they're not doing paper instruction anymore, they want to make a stance that the company is concerned with the environment, but at the same time they're pushing app instructions. Data storage takes up a lot of energy, as does accessing that data from computers and mobile devices. So, they're basically making their sustainability issue the consumer's responsibility. There are plenty of other ways TLG could improve on sustainability while still keeping the physical instructions, like making smaller boxes or using recycled paper stock.
Like many of the commenters above, I also have concerns about children's screen time. It's really addictive to kids, and early research suggests this could cause all kinds of problems. So, even taking the sustainability issue out of the question, no parent or toy company should encourage more screen time to children. I also don't think it would be in TLG's interest in the long run, because are you really selling more plastic bricks to people who are on their screens constantly?
I did this "survey." It reads more like a push poll, with multiple choice questions that don't really allow you to answer how you'd like to answer. The questions within the survey heavily revolve around the Builder app.
The most ridiculous part was, when I initially completed the survey as honestly as it allowed me to, it returned an error, claiming it was unable to submit my responses. I never received any points for completing it, and it vanished from my activities. However, when I switched to my other Insider account, I found that the survey was available again, but this time, I selected answers I thought LEGO would find favorable (just because) and it went through, no problem. I was rewarded the promised +50 points.
Given my experience taking this survey, and reading between the lines of the survey itself, it seems abundantly obvious to me that it has nothing to do with sustainability. I'd say it has more to do with pushing the builder app, probably for the purpose of eventually rebranding it as a digital storefront or means of direct advertising, which I want nothing to do with.
LEGO is not the same company it once was.
Step1: Blame the consumer to polute earth Step2: Save on paper Step3: Bigger profit margin
[[ @missedoutagain said:
[[ @PeterT_AFOL said:
[[ @sbpyrat said:
[[ @stefwaffles said:
[[Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.]]
You have to use the app for the Batman 8in1 Brickheadz sets (for 7 of the 8 versions)...there is no PDF option. I worry that they'll do more of that.
]]]]
Oh great, I've just ordered them and don't have a smart phone as I haven't had the need to. ]]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another issue, what if no tablet or smartphone, how many familys alllow there kids smartphones at such young age... Terrible ideal for many familys]]
Well, in response to numerous complaints to Lego.com, customer services claimed;
"19 July 2024
John, LEGO® Customer Service
That's not the kind of experience we want for any of our fans! We'll have printable PDF instructions for the other models available to download shortly at LEGO.build/BI-BV. Thanks for your patience!"
Two months on, still waiting. Just slow or an outright lie?
Maybe they're included with the special edition. We shall see.... I'm not holding my breath!
Honestly no time to read the whole 276 comments.
So here's my two cents:
I work in an office staring the whole day at a screen. Than a large part of the rest staring at my mobile phone screen.
Building LEGO from paper is and has always been the disconnection from that. The day they get rid of that a large part of the enjoyment goes as well.
And at the same time I don't want my kids staring at a screen to build LEGO either.
The day they switch is the day I switch as well (means no more new sets and building with the existing sets only)
Sorry
@Robot99 said:
" @nldarklord said:
"Was really glad the latest ones finally included the booklets again."
This is news to me, can you tell me which sets in the range have that?"
>> LEGO Super Mario Bowser's Muscle Car Expansion Set 71431
Have they removed the survey? I want my paper instructions... and also those 50 points! :D
I'm in favour of this for myself, as I hate having to store all the instructions in case I ever decide to sell sets, and I've started using digital instructions a lot more anyway.
However, if I was a parent I would be against this for kids. I would want to keep my kids away from screens as much as possible, and Lego should be a nice tactile, real-life thing to entertain them instead of being stuck on a screen.
@Flarent said:
"We are asked to "Help us decide the future of LEGO Building Instructions!" for *sustainable* buildings and on the same day, reading about partnership with Formula one. No contradiction, not at all. "
I had exactly the same thought...
Making the building process worse, are we now? I don't buy Lego sets to look at screens. I want to read from paper. Reading steps from a phone or computer feels terrible.
8448 Super Street Sensation had instructions online for the Hot Rod, Buggy, Concept Car and Racer alternate models. Lego does not carry the alternate instructions online anymore. Fortunately there were some Technic fans which downloaded the instructions and uploaded it online. As someone who obtained this set with the box and instructions long after its release, was relieved to be able to download the alternate model instructions even though it was not from Lego.com. Although I would prefer all the models are together in the hard copy manual.
8448 was a flagship Technic set in the year it was released and had a very well designed box. Is it too much to ask to have printed a bit more to include all the models in hard copy? Even Lego.com today does not have the alternate models instructions. Lego being the premium superior toy brand should not cut corners like this. Like Tesla getting rid of the signal stalk or Apple getting rid of the audio jack/omitting the charger which is all about cutting costs. Otherwise might as well go seek alternatives other than Lego that has paper instructions.
Paper instructions are superior in every way. Some of the Lego instructions in pdf have terrible color contrast. It is like they print out the hard copy and scan to pdf.
The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere.
@miguelmichan said:
"Have they removed the survey? I want my paper instructions... and also those 50 points! :D"
I was in the middle of the survey, then had a call, went back to it and it wouldn't let me submit. Refreshed the page and now its gone!
Maybe if they give me a tablet i can use......
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
I feel as if they may be backtracking due to backlash
@Huw said:
"I consider ownership of the instructions as proof that I own the set."
And how will I scan the barcode on the instructions for my 50 insiders points if I don't have instructions.... there seems not to be a survey anymore in the UK but if there was I would definitely want paper instructions, building lego is a non-digital time for me and my son. Don't necessarily mind the screen except that once the iPad is on, then once the lego is built it would be "can I play x on the iPad" not "lets play with the lego"
@b2_O said:
" @CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
I feel as if they may be backtracking due to backlash"
GOOD. Let's hope so at least.
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
They've taken it down from the US site as well.
Good riddance, poor, unedited piece of parsimonious propaganda.
No, did they accounted to the markets without internet access?
I just wish they’d implement the digital instructions differently. The piddly steps, noises, animations, and all the other crap built in annoys the crap out of me. I should have to click buttons several times just to get the the next instruction step, make it like turning the page of a digital book instead.
I also agree that the paper instructions lately have gotten to where they have small steps on each page increasing the page count. Maybe some people need this, but I’ve been building Lego since before they had number pages or even identified what pieces were needed in each page so I can handle more complexity. To this day I still just look at the picture to see what changed from one page to the next.
i quite like the bit that shows you what pieces you need for a step - we often build with a production line where my role is finding the bits needed and my son does the assembly!
I get the switch to paper bags, as the packaging is a disposable part of the product and therefore is under scrutiny to be as sustainable as possible. I also get the switch to less oil-based bricks like the plant-based plant bricks from a while ago, as oil is non-renewable.
But how does the removal of a instruction booklet, which is not a disposable part of the product, nor is it oil-based in any way, increase sustainability?
Unless they mean financial sustainability. But none of the other steps LEGO has taken recently (paper bags, less oil-based bricks, hopefully smarter box design in the future) seem to be particularly focused on saving money.
@Givememorebricks said:
"What's wrong with you TLG? "
Greed. It's not enough to have constant profit growth
The ONLY way I would see a benefit in this would be if they in future included compact paper instructions like in the olden days, thus saving paper, weight, the environment etc, making people like me happy in the process because we wouldn't have to make do with the phonebook type instructions of today any longer. Which would also make all those happy who complain what a chore it is to store hundreds of these current overblown instructions.
For all the "non-ableists" who prefer one-piece-per-step instructions they could offer these as PDFs or via the builder app - including all the play features some seem to like.
Voila, everyone happy!
Do I get an extra 50 insider points for this revolutionary suggestion? :-p
I've used the app and it sucks. It's very difficult to find specific steps and there's no search for steps either....and it crashes, a lot. If that's the standard, then I prefer TLG keep producing printed instructions.
I can't access the survey (in the U. S.) but skimming half of the comments here got me thinking about what questions SHOULD be on such a survey.:
1) How much would Lego sets need to be discounted for you to consider buying them with digital instructions only?
I'd say 80% (or to $0.02 per piece).
2) What alternative to the current paper instructions would you find least objectionable?
a) Condensed instructions (more pieces per step) in smaller instruction books.
b) Condensed instructions printed on the interior surface of each box.
c) Instructions printed on large Lego elements (e.g. 6x6 tiles/panels). 4) set purchase includes voucher to have physical instructions delivered separately (if desired) in consistently-sized bindable volumes.
d) High-quality digital copies of all Lego instructions ever released to the public demain.
3) How would a change to digital-only instructions change your participation in the Lego hobby.
a) I'm done. Sell everything and move on.
b) I'll stop buying sets and build MOCs only.
c) I'll stop buying Lego sets as gifts for the children in my life.
d) I'll buy some printing and binding equipment and sell bootleg paper instructions to the community.
e) I'll still build, but I'll be a much more vocal complainer on internet forums.
Finally something Brickset users can unanimously agree on.
I’m pretty ticked that I can’t get to the survey here in the U.S.
But my answer is no digital instructions. I hate it with Mario and I’d hate it with anything else. And I absolutely would stop buying sets to put together if that switch was made. And though my kids are older now, I most certainly would not buy stuff in the future for grandchildren.
As my wife pointed out, LEGO is a time away from screens, for adults AND children. What are they even thinking trying to push screens into the mix?
Whoever is suggesting this needs time in the thinking box, maybe without lunch or pay for a few days while they think about their poor life choices.
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
It no longer shows up under my Completed activities, and old surveys do, so I would bet a tenner that the backlash was SEVERE and they removed it entirely. Which, good. Maybe they'll shelf this terrible idea for a decade or more.
I prefer printed instructions. When I build bricklink sets, I have to use my laptop. I can get by on my phone, but I found myself making mistakes so the laptop had to suffice.
But electronic instructions depend on compactability with apps, phones and laptops and WiFi and these don't always comply.
Printed instructions don't have to adapt, they are universal and easy to retrieve, without reliance on electricity or WiFi.
I've had a few power cuts and its very difficult to use electronic devices without electricity.
Usually when theres a power/internet outage building Lego sets is my first choice of activity. Without physical instructions I would definitely buy less Lego sets.
@dimc said:
" @CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
It no longer shows up under my Completed activities, and old surveys do, so I would bet a tenner that the backlash was SEVERE and they removed it entirely. Which, good. Maybe they'll shelf this terrible idea for a decade or more. "
Atleast we got 50 free points, I guess...
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
Let's hope they realised how many negative views they were getting. Or that this was some internal discussion that should not have been published.
The one exception I would make to this is the Lego City Missions sets which were enjoyed and for which the screen was integral - but they were bought deliberately as screen / story sets and were very much built with the app and story and then consigned to the general lego parts collection
@b2_O said:
"Atleast we got 50 free points, I guess..."
Worth all of a penny or whatever that translates to.
If I were in charge of Lego, I'd put down some principles that the company must abide by at all points in the future. It's a private company, which is rare enough, so the fact that they're making all these stupid unforced errors is really quite embarrassing.
@b2_O said:
" @dimc said:
" @CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
It no longer shows up under my Completed activities, and old surveys do, so I would bet a tenner that the backlash was SEVERE and they removed it entirely. Which, good. Maybe they'll shelf this terrible idea for a decade or more. "
Atleast we got 50 free points, I guess..."
I completed the survey. It doesn't show up with the other completed surveys, but does show in "points history".
TLG is loosing focus on what is important. I am falling out of love with TLG.
I have purchased sets with only digital (bricklink), and I will never do so again. If there are no paper instructions, I am not buying the product. Plain and simple.
Best way isn’t do the survey on Lego insider. But to send an actual paper letter detailing your reasons for not liking the idea of paperless instructions.
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
It has been taken down in Poland, too.
I took the survey and then I sent them a message with my detailed comments on the matter. Basically the same as comments here.
I work all day behind a computerscreen because organising digital information is my profession. This idea from LEGO could mean that I would have to use another screen to build my legosets while I enjoy being away from the digital world.
I bought some BrickLink Designer Program sets. They had digital instructions only. I hated that with passion - and will not buy any more of those sets.
That's for myself.
For my kids, no additional screen time is allowed. So, no printed instructions --> no purchase.
Stick a fork in it, TLG.
@tomthepirate said:
"I bought some BrickLink Designed Program sets. They had digital instructions only. I hated that with passion - and will not buy any more of those sets.
That's for myself.
For my kids, no additional screen time is allowed. So, no printed instructions --> no purchase.
Stick a fork in it, TLG."
I am on the same page. No paper, no purchase for me!
The majority of the community being unified on this one topic is epic.
TLG: Remove paper instructions and I am starting my second dark age. One that will never end.
@tomthepirate said:
"I bought some BrickLink Designed Program sets. They had digital instructions only. I hated that with passion - and will not buy any more of those sets.
That's for myself."
I have as well, knowing that they only come with PDF. I haven't built them yet (no space) but I'm not super looking forward to it. They're all large and I have to do it at a computer, since I don't have a tablet and a laptop seems less ideal.
I may honestly look into getting them printed, but I seem to recall them being very large PDFs so that might add $30-40 to the cost, which I don't need. I'll deal with it since I knew it was going to happen, but having heard from a bunch of people here how it's a pain, it may curtail any future BLDP purchases in the future.
If any set is easier with paper instructions it's the likes of the Creator 3 in 1, or the Batman 8 in 1 Brickheads
I don't buy Bricklink sets because of the lack of paper instructions.
At the same time, I watch a lot of videos online of other people building them and throwing the instructions away, so maybe I am the only one that keeps them like a bookshelf, neatly organized?
@Loerwyn said:
"They could save paper by condensing some of the instructions rather than some of the really piddly little steps you sometimes get."
Instruction manuals are probably twice as long as they need to be. I understand 4+ sets only using a couple of pieces per page, but there's no reason for large sets to not have 10+ pieces per page.
One wish in the instructions...sometimes it is difficult to identify the color...black / dark gray . dark blue can look the same.
I for one would like to continue to keep the printed instructions...I keep all of them and like them for reference. Don't want to build with a computer screen / phone / tablet.
@b2_O said:
"Atleast we got 50 free points, I guess..."
Maybe they'd stopped because there weren't any more free points left in the kitty.
@Flarent said:
"We are asked to "Help us decide the future of LEGO Building Instructions!" for *sustainable* buildings and on the same day, reading about partnership with Formula one. No contradiction, not at all. "
Love that comment
Late to the party here (been on vacation), and since the official survey has been taken down, I will respond here with a solid "NO!" to digital only instructions.
My initial reaction was "I don't think I would mind all-digital instructions." I already throw out most of my instruction booklets after I build the sets (due to limited storage space) and use online PDFs if I ever need to access the instructions again.
But then I started reading the comments and thinking through it a little more. If LEGO truly cares about their target demographic (children) this seems like a terrible idea. Not every kid has access to a phone or a tablet, and goodness knows that that do have that access could probably do with less screen time.
I'm all for green initiatives, but this smells more like a money saving scheme disguised as a green initiative. I really hope they don't go through with this.
@Vesperas said:
"I did this "survey." It reads more like a push poll, with multiple choice questions that don't really allow you to answer how you'd like to answer. The questions within the survey heavily revolve around the Builder app.
The most ridiculous part was, when I initially completed the survey as honestly as it allowed me to, it returned an error, claiming it was unable to submit my responses. I never received any points for completing it, and it vanished from my activities. However, when I switched to my other Insider account, I found that the survey was available again, but this time, I selected answers I thought LEGO would find favorable (just because) and it went through, no problem. I was rewarded the promised +50 points.
Given my experience taking this survey, and reading between the lines of the survey itself, it seems abundantly obvious to me that it has nothing to do with sustainability. I'd say it has more to do with pushing the builder app, probably for the purpose of eventually rebranding it as a digital storefront or means of direct advertising, which I want nothing to do with.
LEGO is not the same company it once was."
I had a similar experience, but I just refreshed the page, pressed submit again, and then it worked.
Is 328 comments (as of 19.9.24 at 15:41) a record for this site?? I've never seen so many on one post!
@b2_O said:
"Is 328 comments (as of 19.9.24 at 15:41) a record for this site?? I've never seen so many on one post!"
There have been articles with 500+ before, so no. The Zelda reveal + reviews earlier in the year also had 300+ comments.
I think the actual record is like six or seven hundred?
@Robot99 said:
" @b2_O said:
"Is 328 comments (as of 19.9.24 at 15:41) a record for this site?? I've never seen so many on one post!"
There have been articles with 500+ before, so no. The Zelda reveal + reviews earlier in the year also had 300+ comments.
I think the actual record is like six or seven hundred?"
Interesting... I'm gonna have to find that 600/700 article now. Thanks \(^^)/!
Digital building directions are terrible. I've tried a few different formats and they don't work well. Plus, I do Lego for the tactile, unwired experience. Not to mention, paper is trivial in environmental costs compared to, well, anything else.
Whole lotta reasons to keep paper directions and not any good reasons to drop them.
I look at a screen for 8 hours when at work. When I build with LEGO it’s to escape from tech and ‘screen eyes’.
I don’t think some of the paper manuals need to be so ‘luxurious’ but some sets, like the Technic Supercars and Star Was UCS need the books as the icing on the cake, not least because I don’t want to look at a several thousand page booklet on a phone or tablet :-(
Um.....how about NO?!?!
@Starik20X7 said:
"Looks like I have the minority opinion of being completely fine with them phasing out physical institution books. Let’s list the advantages of each, shall we?
Advantages of Paper Instructions:
- Keeps LEGO as a digital free hobby: in an increasingly digital world, having a hobby that allows you to disconnect entirely from devices is nice.
Advantages of Digital Instructions:
- Storage: once you’ve got a sizeable collection, storage of instructions starts to become a chore. Personally, I’ve got 6 filing cabinet drawers full of the things, and that’s only counting the ones I’ve gotten around to filing. An entire library of digital instructions only takes up as much space as your tablet/phone.
- Better for the environment: someone mentioned before that LEGO might try to claim this as a greenwashing tactic, but I don’t think it’s without environmental merit, for a couple of reasons;
- The most obvious one is that it means they use significantly less paper by not having to print millions of booklets every year.
- Another, perhaps less obvious one is the reduction in weight of newly boxed sets. I just did a quick test with set 76224, and found out the complete set weighs about 300g. The instruction book weighs 150g, meaning a full 1/3 of the weight of the boxed set was just for the instructions! Being able to reduce the weight of sets as they’re shipped around the world, on the scale that LEGO operates, would actually have a significant impact on the emissions required to do so.
- No more crushed instructions: the instructions in a lot of smaller sets (Brickheadz, for example)are often folded to fit them inside the smaller boxes. Often, this ends up making them harder to use than the digital instructions. I usually end up having to flatten them by placing them under something heavy for a while to try and straighten them out again.
- Legibility: being able to rotate the model, zoom in and out, and have animations to show how things connect is an undeniable advantage to digital instructions that physical ones cannot match. Granted, this is currently not a feature for every set on the Builder app, if LEGO was to fully commit to an all-digital-instructions future, there’s no reason to assume they wouldn’t.
- Build together: another enormous advantage of the app is the ability to easily share the build amongst multiple people. The way it will automatically divide the set among the number of participants is fantastic and a great way to ensure everyone is able to get involved in a way that simply passing the instruction booklet around doesn’t allow.
- Updatable: this is obviously a much more minor advantage, but digital instructions can be updated if a mistake is found once they’ve been published.
In addition to these direct advantages, I think it’s worth noting that people are already using digital instructions when it comes to the BrickLink Designer Program sets, or when downloading or buying instructions from sites like Rebrickable.
TL;DR: As much as I appreciate a nice instruction booklet, particularly for the larger 18+ sets, the advantages offered by a digital future in this regard are, in my opinion, heavily weighted against paper instructions."
I... kind of agree with you, except you might be missing the point of this debate. This isn't about whether digital instructions should be used: it's about whether they should REPLACE printed ones. I don't have a lot of problems with the digital instructions themselves. They're a nice extra and you've listed a few good points, but is there any good reason as to why printed ones should be discarded completely?
All the advantages you've listed for digital instructions don't strongly support phasing out physical books: the weight change won't make a difference, the reaction to digital-only instructions for the Bricklink Designer Program has been generally mixed and if you run out of storage space, just chuck your excess instructions in the recycling and download the PDF/App. Simple.
Took the survey, finished the survey, said "no"...seriously: First they ditch the non-recyclable FOIL bags for CMF (instead of, you know, taking the foil out and polybaging/Mixeling them), then dropping the RECYCLABLE plastic bags that hold parts in the sets...Where does it end TLG: a box with loose parts and a weblink? An empty box w/a 'digital download' to allow building the set 'virtually'...TANGIBLES...TACTILES...experiences more than one gets from 'a screen'; that's what 'reading' (over 'viewing'), and as well as actually constructing something physically rather than simulation...just my five cents (Canada doesn't have Pennies :D)
What if you want to build a set where there’s no Wi-Fi!
Please don't get rid of paper instructions.
In my personal opinion the LEGO Group should lead by example in NOT encouraging more screen time, which has always been a beautiful aspect of the physical product.
As an adult I really value spending time away from the screens when I can, and would want to encourage children to do the same.
Then there are the practical downsides of digital instructions;
- Not everyone has or wants a tablet / phone / laptop
- There will always be dependencies on internet/ updating the app/ slow downloads / bugs
- Always require you to find a charged device and browse to a website or app
- Slow to go to any step in the instructions
- Non-optional animations and video's that over-simplify the experience (to me)
- Constantly getting distracted and interrupted by other apps or notifications on the device
More than happy to pay part of the price of these premium quality products to have physical paper instructions that allow me to
- Fully immerse in the building experience without any distractions
- Train your spatial awareness by comparing perspectives
- Be given as part of a gift and included as part of a full experience in one box, one place.
- Are satisfying to collect and sort into folders
- Are easy to understand and show overview and visible progression
- Can be shared with others
Having said that, I’m someone who makes digital instructions for alternative builds that people can build. I don’t have an easy way to make physical instructions, but would love to try.
Maybe an option to order a set with or without instructions, at a higher price for With instructions.
@Huw, what's the record for comments on an article, and are we approaching it?
@BoltBuilds said:
"
Having said that, I’m someone who makes digital instructions for alternative builds that people can build. I don’t have an easy way to make physical instructions, but would love to try.
"
I don't do enough colour printing to justify owning a colour printer, and colour printing in a shop is 50¢/page minimum here. I would love if ReBrickable or Bricklink offered a printing service. I would pay a fair premium to get printed instructions for MOCs and BDP sets.
Here's another idea: print on demand instructions for vintage sets. Marked as reproductions of course. Would be a great motivation for TLG to fill out and improve their digital instructions.
@sjr60 said:
[[ [[ @missedoutagain said:
[[ @PeterT_AFOL said:
[[ @sbpyrat said:
[[ @stefwaffles said:
[[Doubt many will read this, but you don’t have to use the app and you don’t have to endure the patronising 3D app instructions. Both the app and Lego (easy links from brickset) carry PDF instructions, which are a facsimile of the printed instructions.]]
You have to use the app for the Batman 8in1 Brickheadz sets (for 7 of the 8 versions)...there is no PDF option. I worry that they'll do more of that.
]]]]
Oh great, I've just ordered them and don't have a smart phone as I haven't had the need to. ]]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's another issue, what if no tablet or smartphone, how many familys alllow there kids smartphones at such young age... Terrible ideal for many familys]]
Well, in response to numerous complaints to Lego.com, customer services claimed;
"19 July 2024
John, LEGO® Customer Service
That's not the kind of experience we want for any of our fans! We'll have printable PDF instructions for the other models available to download shortly at LEGO.build/BI-BV. Thanks for your patience!"
Two months on, still waiting. Just slow or an outright lie?
Maybe they're included with the special edition. We shall see.... I'm not holding my breath!]]
I did check to see if they had posted PDFs yesterday...just in case they had added them since I built mine. I hope no matter what happens, they don't go to app only instructions. I mostly build from PDFs, so that would be okay for me, though it is nice to have the option to build from physical instructions...especially if you're away from the internet/electricity. But I know many other really prefer paper, and I hate that they wouldn't have the option for paper. Nothing is final yet, the Batman 8 in 1 was the first set I personally worked on that I had to use the APP and it wasn't awesome. I've heard others mention the app crashing and worry about that happening more if the traffic increases significantly. Hopefully LEGO strongly considers what the users want. But I hated that the survey was so limited in the responses you could give. It definitely didn't give me a chance to share my thoughts well.
Getting rid of printed instruction books is just wrong on so many levels.
1) For many (myself included) they are not clutter or trash, unlike, say, the plastic bags the bricks come in. I never trash the books when I'm done building a given model. I have two, full height filing cabinets full of instructions going back 50 years.
2) Lego is my "escape" from sitting in front of a screen all day long. I read physical books rather than use a kindle because when I'm reading for pleasure I absolutely do not want to be reminded that I spend half my waking hours dealing with computers. Forcing me to reach for a tablet in order to build a Lego kit would suck all the joy out of the hobby for me - I'd stop buying new kits and just MOC instead
3) When Power-Up replaced PowerFunctions and they moved away from physical controllers to phone software, they lost me (see point 2, above) It took all of two kits to convince me that if someone gave me an app controlled kit for free, I'd scrap it for parts rather than integrate my job with my hobby.
4) Lego is a premium product, and when I buy a premium product I expect it to be complete straight out of the box; no presumption that I own some other product from some other vender; nothing to download; nothing to upgrade; just a self contained, grab-and-go experience. I have a child and I always pack an "emergency" Lego kit for rainy days, long car rides, flight delays, etc. when we travel. I want a box I can hand to my daughter and be done with it; not something where I need to worry if I've got a good wi-fi connection or enough battery life or have to loan her my phone.
5) Speaking of my daughter, the pandemic devastated our efforts to limit her screen time and we're still trying to recover from that culture shift. Lego is one of the few things that gets her away from her tablet and focusing on fine motor skills and 3-D visualization. Moving to all digital instructions would undermine this goal. Frankly, I'd stop buying kits and just go with Creator buckets of basic bricks.
6) Speaking as a former educator who has studied cognitive development young children, I've also seen studies that found that interactive 3-D visualizations with animations and the ability to rotate the image as one often sees in digital media actually retards the development of spacial reasoning skills compared to static, printed false perspective diagrams. Basically this means that, moving to digital instructions means that your brain doesn't has to work as hard to understand what's going on, which might actually be a plus for your average AFOL, but it means that kids are getting fewer long-term benefits from the play experience.
7) Paper instructions are, in their own way, timeless. As I said, I have half a century worth of instructions going back to the days when set numbers were only three digits; and these instructions are still valid and useful. I also have a shoebox-full of various MindStorm controllers bricks (RCX, NXT, EV3, etc), bar-code programmable bricks (8479-1), Lego studio cameras (1349, 9647) and other "smart" bricks that have basically become paperweights as the associated software becomes orphan-ware or hardware that once hosted that software gets replace with newer, incompatible platforms. I may have books that were printed before my parents were born that I can still read, but I've also got computer files that are less than five years old that I can't open anymore; I'd like to think that , properly cared for, the instructions for a kit would have the same staying power as the bricks themselves.
8) As far as sustainability goes, when you look at the "big picture" ditching the instruction book isn't as shiny a "silver bullet" as it first appears. For those that don't want physical instruction books, or build the model once and never plan of revisiting it, the instruction book is probably the most recyclable part of the entire kit (rivaled only by the box itself). As solid waste goes, a ton of paper is a lot simpler to deal with, recycle and reuse than dead batteries and electronic
Aren't there already set without paper instructions? Pretty sure I've had to setup my kid on his iPad for at least one of the Super Mario sets.
If they switch off printed instructions, they’re missing the boat. What makes LEGO unique is that it’s a manual, analog product- no electricity or internet required. That’s part of its defining characteristic imho.
Having everything required to build a set within a sealed box is key. It reaches such a wider audience. Relying on external devices (phone, computer, etc.) to build the product the customer purchased, is a risk.
You can’t chalk this up to “everyone naturally resists change.” I think it’s a little more nuanced than that. Big mistake if they make this jump.
@mkrey said:
"Late to the party here (been on vacation), and since the official survey has been taken down, I will respond here with a solid "NO!" to digital only instructions. "
Send Customer Service an email; I doubt they'll read this thread.
@bcontant said:
"Aren't there already set without paper instructions? Pretty sure I've had to setup my kid on his iPad for at least one of the Super Mario sets."
The first couple waves did not have paper instructions, but I believe most Mario sets do have them now.
Edit: Forgot that Dimensions sets didn't come with paper instructions. You were expected to build in-game, but PDF instructions were available.
The only other "official" sets with digital only instructions are the Bricklink Designer Program sets.
The town here organizes charity Christmas gift drives, where kids from poor families can apply for gifts to the town, which then anonymizes their requests (what they want, how old they are and their gender are all that is published along with an ID number). Finally, we citizens can then take as many as we like to fulfill by dropping off wrapped presents with the ID numbers at the town hall, from where the presents get distributed to the intended recipients. I prefer gifting LEGO to kids who wish for toys, as it is a gift that keeps its value, unlike most contemporary wares. But if I can't know for sure that the recipient has a smart device, then I won't be able to select a set that does not include a paper instruction sheet.
@MLF said:
" @bcontant said:
"Aren't there already set without paper instructions? Pretty sure I've had to setup my kid on his iPad for at least one of the Super Mario sets."
The first couple waves did not have paper instructions, but I believe most Mario sets do have them now.
Edit: Forgot that Dimensions sets didn't come with paper instructions. You were expected to build in-game, but PDF instructions were available.
The only other "official" sets with digital only instructions are the Bricklink Designer Program sets."
Sets from the "missions" subtheme in City 2022 did not even have PDF instructions, but had them via a story mobile app only , probably the worst example of how to do it, even if half of the set was free building a space ships wings / car's animal lore or police submarine etc
https://brickset.com/sets/subtheme-Missions
The sets themselves were not bad however.
349 comments in less than 24 hours.... that's got to be a record!
@MLF said:
"The only other "official" sets with digital only instructions are the Bricklink Designer Program sets."
Don't forget about the "Missions" sets. They were a lousy build experience because of no instructions. And the "imagination" part of the build was hampered by digital and would have been expanded by paper. Great sets, poor experience because of that.
Paper (almost literally) "grows on trees".
Many paper/lumber producers already maintain their forests; paper is one of the most sustainable products there is. It's about sustaining ever-increasing profit.
@Librarian1976 said:
"Switching from print to digital instructions would serve as a major impediment to my ability to enjoy LEGO as my hobby. I am an Orthodox Jew who does not use electronic technology on the Sabbath, which is often the one day of the week when I am able to relax with my LEGO hobby. This would be terrible for me and others like me.
I also agree with all of the previous posters who point out (a) how LEGO should be an escape from screen time, not something that adds to it; and (b) the potential for unequal access to LEGO due to adequate technology not necessarily being financially available to those with a lower economic status."
For faith reasons or not, digitally detoxing is a good idea. Humans didn’t evolve to stare at screens. You could argue that they didn’t evolve to assemble LEGO either but I would counter that our large brains, binocular vision, fine motor movements and opposable thumbs all came about because they confer evolutionary advantages, and those happen to be needed to assemble LEGO as well. So in a sense, assembling LEGO is a natural human activity.
@MLF said:
" @bcontant said:
"Aren't there already set without paper instructions? Pretty sure I've had to setup my kid on his iPad for at least one of the Super Mario sets."
The first couple waves did not have paper instructions, but I believe most Mario sets do have them now.
Edit: Forgot that Dimensions sets didn't come with paper instructions. You were expected to build in-game, but PDF instructions were available.
The only other "official" sets with digital only instructions are the Bricklink Designer Program sets."
I think the Boost sets also only had digital instructions. But at least for those it did make sense, as you needed a tablet to program it anyway.
Keep the paper instructions. It feels more engaging making a set, also easier to search for the page if you made a mistake.
Change the layout of the instructions. Sometimes you have a full page for just one brick / piece. Make the box a bit smaller. Yes I know and understand they want to sell the story but most sets the box is just 3/4 or even half full.
I like the manuals but keeping them is adding to storage problems
I'm glad I did the survey yesterday just for the 50 points. The easiest way to reduce paper usage is have a minimum of 10 pieces per step in the instructions, rather than regularly wasting a whole page for a single piece.
Digitalization often is actually worse for the environment than printed goods.
Im also pretty sure other commenters are right about Lego wanting to sell a cost cutting measure as „sustainable“.
@CapnRex101 said:
"The survey has seemingly been removed in the UK now, so I would be interested to know where it can still be accessed, if anywhere."
Not available here in NZ.
As a photosensitive epileptic, I’m all good on the meds- to a point.
Restricting screen time is not a choice but when I see how the TLG are ‘reducing paper for the good of the environment’ while collaborating with ‘responsible’ partners, I wonder hypothetically what would flip a seizure first, my increased screen time or their hypocrisy?
Probably been said already but, Lego wants to be green and help the environment which is good. Look we just signed a deal with F1. It's been awhile since I watched any racing, but F1 definitely not green.
I also always prefer paper instructions, when possible! My only exception are BDP sets, but its always a con for these sets.
For used sets I also pay more to get the paper instructions and boxes - so I would not be willing to pay high prices for regular sets without printed instructions!
I understand the point of simple instructions to not exclude some people from the experience of building with Lego - but sometimes one part per building step?? In age ranges above five years, shouldnt it be possible to atleast place two parts per building step?? Could that be a compromise to save some paper + ink and also approach the more experienced builders?
nice to know the measly small positive impact on the environment is more crucial to lego than making sure no children are barred from experiencing the products themselves
Terrible, nonsensical idea.
They would increase their (already huge) profits if they stop printing instructions, which is probably the main goal of this initiative.
Reasons related to ecology make no sense, since paper is easily recyclable.
By offering only digital instructions, they would:
- ruin building experience for most of us,
- probably reduce sales of new sets,
- they would make big problems for families worlwide who can occasionally buy a small Lego set, but do not have tablet / laptop for kids and can not afford to buy it,
- they would undermine the widespread effort of reducing kid's screen time, etc.
The list of negative effects is too long to mention everything here.
I hate this so much! I already hate the new instruction covers.
They could just save so much by condensing their instructions and not add 2 pieces on average per step. No builder is so stupid, that they need this granular instructions
@gmonkey76 said:
"It's been awhile since I watched any racing, but F1 definitely not green."
You clearly haven't seen the Aston Martins. The Saubers. And hey, even Mercedes in the next race in Singapore. All very green!
Imagine you go to a website to get your instructions. You have to do some obnoxious captcha to prove you're human. Then, between each instruction step, a live video ad plays.
None of the above is hyperbole. It's standard enshitification. Youtube is even going to play ads when you pause a video. The rich want to destroy everything good for the sake of profit.
If we go for online instructions, it's just going to get worse and worse. Best to nip this in the bud.
You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS.
@danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable.
I don't see it anywhere here, but LEGO has apparently taken down the survey.
https://x.com/tormentalous/status/1836735941719073256?s=46&t=nT472-xgUl0KE2qmuBR5Ew
(from TheBrickFan, just citing sources, no other new info)
Hopefully the message to LEGO is clear that we love physical instructions!
@bealegopro said:
"I don't see it anywhere here, but LEGO has apparently taken down the survey.
https://x.com/tormentalous/status/1836735941719073256?s=46&t=nT472-xgUl0KE2qmuBR5Ew
(from TheBrickFan, just citing sources, no other new info)
Hopefully the message to LEGO is clear that we love physical instructions!"
I added a note to thr article when I noticed it was gone this afternoon.
@b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything.
@b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Less....affordable. When said in conjunction with Lego, that sounds like quite the euphemism....
This is either April fools in September, or a horror movie.
Being a company that's built on plastic, ships worldwide, packs in oversized packaging and a champion of consumerism - I think they can lay of the "digital instructions are better for the environment" mantra.
And if they do, it should be reflected in pricing, as they will eliminate both the production of the instructions, and the volume weight of shipping them to stores.
@nldarklord said:
"Please don't.
Really hated all those Mario sets for not including them.
Always had troubles with those sets. The battery didn't hold up till the end of the build, smartphone screens were too small and fast scrolling to earlier pages was very tedious.
Was really glad the latest ones finally included the booklets again.
If they stop adding them completely I'll probably stop buying Lego."
Mario has paper instructions now
@wronglook said:
"Happy with that! It’s really annoying to store them (when you have hundreds)"
When the numbers get so high its annoying to store them it would take up a lot of digital space to store them to.
If Lego cared about the environment they wouldn't make so many expensive and needlessly oversized sets that only collect dust.
@nldarklord said:
"Please don't.
Really hated all those Mario sets for not including them.
Always had troubles with those sets. The battery didn't hold up till the end of the build, smartphone screens were too small and fast scrolling to earlier pages was very tedious.
Was really glad the latest ones finally included the booklets again.
If they stop adding them completely I'll probably stop buying Lego."
Wow seriously? Fast scrolling is exactly what touch screens should be great at. If LEGO's app can't do that, then their UI designer is a failure.
Would be a nightmare....
Love buying getting set I want.
Would hate opening it, assembling, enjoying set, and paying someone assemble it for me.
How would family's put set together over christmas sitting candlelight with nice fireplace going, singing chrismas songs.
Paper and only paper for me. The Bricklink sets are not enjoyable to build with a screen. Let's hope to stay like that...
why are they instead not addresing the issue of brick separators? How many of those do you have at home? I am starting to swimm in them ....F.e. they could easily "buy" them back in official LEGO stores and issues VIP points for them. This might actually change something
Survey down, obviously. But even with lack of storage space I still want my instructions. I try to avoid screens when building. If they did away with them I would find myself buying fewer sets. I might still buy pieces and figures on Bricklink, but official sets would go to the wayside.
Might not be TOO much an issue today, giving the amount of digital collectors who save every file, but back then it created a lot of problems...
Yes, Lego did this way earlier than you think - Cyber Master in 1998 didn't come with physical instructions. And a lot of similar Mindstorms-esque sets from ca. 1998-2002 did so as well.
Sometimes these instructions weren't even PDF, they were embedded in weird programs that usually only run on those OS that you probably never used, but Lego seemed very fond of for some reason, like Windows ME.
Getting these instructions nowaday is way messier than it should have been.
@WizardOfOss said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Less....affordable. When said in conjunction with Lego, that sounds like quite the euphemism...."
I meant more expensive.
@danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?
@strangeworld said:
"And the price of the sets will be the same.."
In this economy that's a huge winner!
Maybe, they can try printing them on the plastic, I heard it's cheaper, and its recycling process is more ecology-friendly.
Also, about brick separators. I have two, maybe three, — grey, orange and another I'm not sure exists.
@b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?"
Cobi is a polish company, they make more war oriented sets and classic vehicles. Their bricks are of good quality, their minifigs looks a bit weird but they have a lot of nice sets.
@Pastajensen said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?"
Cobi is a polish company, they make more war oriented sets and classic vehicles. Their bricks are of good quality, their minifigs looks a bit weird but they have a lot of nice sets. "
Just looked, definitely not for me (I don't really care for war models), but i can't deny that the build quality of the sets look solid!
@b2_O said:
" @Pastajensen said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?"
Cobi is a polish company, they make more war oriented sets and classic vehicles. Their bricks are of good quality, their minifigs looks a bit weird but they have a lot of nice sets. "
Just looked, definitely not for me (I don't really care for war models), but i can't deny that the build quality of the sets look solid!"
Not interested in most of their offerings, but as my Dad and uncles spent a few years in Mosquitoes, Spitfires, and the recently released Lancaster I have strayed occasionally!
@b2_O said:
" @Pastajensen said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?"
Cobi is a polish company, they make more war oriented sets and classic vehicles. Their bricks are of good quality, their minifigs looks a bit weird but they have a lot of nice sets. "
Just looked, definitely not for me (I don't really care for war models), but i can't deny that the build quality of the sets look solid!"
Just two things: Superior clutch power. Grooveless tiles ;-)
All jokes aside, so far I built only one of their sets, (MIG-29 Ghost of Kyiv), and that was a very nice surprise. And there sure are a couple more sets I want to have (Baureihe 52 locomotive! And also some of their big cars) , It's just that I still have quite a stack of Lego and other sets (mostly Loz) I have yet to build....
Its a quite different building experience from Lego, and they use some building techniques you wouldn't see from Lego (granted, some for good reason). They have tons of unique pieces, especially when it comes to SNOT, slopes, (inverted) tiles, and the best: just a double stud you can use to invert the building direction anywhere you want to! And with their recent sets it's prints only., and their prints are of vastly superior quality compared to Lego, often even over multiple pieces without any gaps.
I absolultely detest their figures though, and in some cases I think they rely a bit too much on specialized pieces (whereas Lego should do a bit more ...). And they're not cheap, prices aren't that far below Lego level.
So if you see something you like, surely give them a shot! Not saying they are better than Lego (in some aspects they are, in others they aren't), just different.
@sjr60 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @Pastajensen said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
" @b2_O said:
" @danth78 said:
"You want to reduce the use of paper?
GET. RID. OF. STICKERS. "
I understand what you mean, but prints are quite expensive, and without stickers, some sets may become much less affordable."
Yet somehow Cobi and Megablocks print mostly everything. "
Who is cobi?"
Cobi is a polish company, they make more war oriented sets and classic vehicles. Their bricks are of good quality, their minifigs looks a bit weird but they have a lot of nice sets. "
Just looked, definitely not for me (I don't really care for war models), but i can't deny that the build quality of the sets look solid!"
Not interested in most of their offerings, but as my Dad and uncles spent a few years in Mosquitoes, Spitfires, and the recently released Lancaster I have strayed occasionally!"
interesting, not for me but I know few who would like them, at least not a cheap knock off of some chinese company.
I work in I.T support, so in my spare time, I like building Lego sets to have a break from screens and I find it more relaxing with paper instructions.
Hmm, they ship boxes of plastic parts all over the world and think the best thing to do is stop with the paper instructions?
Surely this is cost reduction only.
Imagine a world without internet access anymore. If it wasn’t for the instructions included, you wouldn’t be able to rebuild the newer sets.
NO!!!!
Absolutely NOT!
Paper instructions is the best, I hate that everything has to be digital.
What Lego could do, was to consider the steps they make in their instructions to add more bricks/pieces per. step.
I grew up in the 80's and the number of elements used in each step in the assembly instructions back worked fine.
I am done buying sets if there no paper instructions.
They can easy cut the instructions back to half the size or even a third , some steps are absolutely ridicules by adding only one or 2 pieces to the set.
Best of Both Worlds!!
It is clear that some people like paper instructions (for good reason) and some (like me) utilise a tablet. I personally find my iPad Pro the best way to work through each step, but each to their own. I would therefore like to suggest that Lego consider one of two possible scenarios:-
1. Selling their more expensive sets (say over £40) in 2 box configurations. One box that includes instructions and one that doesnt. The one that doesnt have instructions being cheaper than the one with.
or
2. Selling a set and making the instruction an optional pack, so if bought together they amount to the regular cost of a set, but a box of bricks only being slight cheaper.
In each case, the reduction in price for a "box of bricks only" would reflect the size of the instructions (ie no. of pages) and the cost to produce said instructions.
Just a thought. :-)
I hate it when companies nowadays use sustainability as an excuse to trim production costs.
Physical printouts of instruction manuals are part of the LEGO building experience. It’s bad enough that longtime LEGO fans had to deal with the phasing out of boxes with flaps (usually found in larger sets at the time). While that one was understandable from a sustainability standpoint, this proposed attempt just doesn’t make sense.
It’s alienating customers who may not have the resources to access digital copies of the instructions. And let’s not even get started on the effects this new measure will have on one’s health, specifically our eyesight.
P.S. to the Brickset team, apologies. I accidentally sent this comment as an email. Kindly disregard it. My rants are not directed at you obviously. ;-)
I agree with @PurpleDave and @TheOtherMike and have nothing more to add.
I think for the Adult Sets, I'm ok with digital instructions, BUT for the sets that are for ages under 13 or so, the paper instructions are better. I like the LEGO system because it allows my children to disconnect from devised and other digital media.
I don't agree at all, instructions must be present for children, and why not, for me, I don't want be looking a tablet (if I had) or mobile and look at a screen with small dimensions. This is only a way for reduce costs, but price will be the same.
As many here, I'm against the removal of paper instructions in favour of digital ones. After reading all 399 comments, I must say I don't agree with every argument.
I can certainly see how less bricks added per instruction step, in comparison to the number of bricks added per step years or decades ago, result in using more steps/paper; and more steps/paper than needed for some (myself included). However, many people seem to forget that the brick and colour diversity has increased significantly over those years. So it's not only to cater to the 'best building experience for first-time builders', but also to keep it fun for less savvy builders. It's one product for all types of customers. Sure, different age brackets are targeted between different sets, and there the instructions increase in difficulty with the targeted age, but the difficulty will be at the minimum for each bracket. I don't see a way around that without making different versions of each set/instruction manual, which would come with its own drawbacks. Making one hard copy and the rest digital is not a solution: if you don't want to be forced to go digital, why would a less savvy builder have to be?
That was the most mentioned alternative to having no paper instructions at all, but still being more sustainable, but I don't see that happening.
I agree mostly with the other arguments.
@Maxbricks14 said:
" @Hellscream said:
"That's fine by me, I already build all my sets via the PDF's on this site..."
You must be the only person in existence who builds new sets via a PDF."
Late getting back to this, but I'm a little surprised I seem to be in the extreme minority. I just have dual monitors and find putting them up on my screen easier than looking at the booklet...