Review: 10277 Crocodile Locomotive
Posted by Huw,
Creator Expert trains are among the most sought after and expensive sets on the secondary market so, with a seemingly obvious demand for them, it's perhaps surprising that LEGO makes so few of them. The release of 10277 Crocodile Locomotive, seven years after the last one, is thus long overdue.
In this, the first of my two part review, I build the set and give my verdict. Tomorrow I will discuss motorising it with both Powered Up and Power Functions.
The model is based on a Swiss Ce 6-8 Krokodil electric locomotive, which are so called because of the long 'noses' at each end. They were built around 1920 and three preserved examples are in still use on heritage lines in Switzerland. They are iconic in continental Europe, where several similar designs were used in other countries, but perhaps not so much in North America and the UK.
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As Jamie Berard explained in our interview with him, LEGO is hoping that it will appeal to adults who are not AFOLs, but who are looking for something quirky to display, as well as LEGO train fans.
The set, the latest in LEGO's new 'Adults Welcome' 18+ series, comes in a box that certainly has a very mature feel to it, almost to the point of looking drab. I'm not sure that visitors to a LEGO store who are not specifically looking for it would be attracted to it, to be honest.
To make the set feel more 'adult' the presence of minifigures has been down-played on the packaging: they are not shown on the front at all. After all, adults don't play with minifigs, do they...
However, two are provided which both use a new torso printed with a creased overall with red neck tie: that's what all train drivers wear, right? The cap is also new in medium blue.
Construction
Parts are packaged in bags numbered 1 to 4. The first bag provides parts for the display stand. It's 66 studs long which is about 53cm. The track is not made from the normal prefabricated pieces but instead utilises the old 4.5v rails with serrated tops on a bed of plates.
For some reason there is no gap under the rails and the sleepers, which are formed of dark brown 1x4 tiles between the rails and 1x1 plates on the outside, do not go underneath them. Nevertheless, it looks OK.
A 'UCS-style' plaque is mounted at the right-hand end which shows details about the loco the model is based upon. It's a sticker, the only one in the set.
The centre section of the locomotive, constructed first, is nominally 6-wide but tiles attached to the sides make it more like 7-wide. The decorated tiles, and the tile/clip piece between the wheels, are all printed
Embedded in the chassis is gearing which will enable it to be motorised. I will discuss this in more detail tomorrow.
A subassembly, upon which the minifigs can be seated, fits snugly inside, but can be removed to make room for the motor and battery box.
Next, the roof and pantographs are constructed. I really like the dark green pieces, representing ceramic insulators, and the red cabling, which add a subtle splash of colour.
Adding the ends of the cabs completes this section of the model.
The last part of construction, the 'noses' of the locomotive, is the most time-consuming. Both ends are identical so it's a '2x' build. I don't like going back over instructions for the second part of such builds, so I made them in parallel.
The chassis is articulated, with the smaller front wheels mounted on a Bissel (or Pony) truck, and the rear driving wheel is 'blind', with no flange, which together will enable the complete locomotive to negotiate LEGO's tight curves.
The noses are 7-wide with a narrower 5-wide upper section. The two 2x4 tiles on the front looks a bit awkward but does appear to be roughly prototypical.
Once the top sections have been mounted onto the underframes, construction is complete.
The completed model
At 45cm long this is the longest locomotive LEGO has produced and I think it looks excellent. The brown livery looks understated and sophisticated and, as Jamie said to us during our interview, it's a colour that is often overlooked and doesn't see as much use in LEGO sets as perhaps it should.
If you compare it to the picture of the real thing above it becomes apparent that it's not totally accurate, but it's a good representation.
Just like the real locomotive, the three sections of its body are articulated to enable it to negotiate sharp curves. That, plus the use of Pony and 'blind' wheels also enable it to work on the extremely sharp radius LEGO curved track although it arguably looks a bit silly while doing so.
A couple of bricks on the display stand keep the loco in place when its mounted upon it. It's very sturdy and stable and can be moved about without the stand flexing or the loco rolling off.
Verdict
With the notable exception of 10194 Emerald Night, LEGO trains tend to look like toys and not the sort of thing that many people would want to display in their living room.
However, in my opinion, this model takes detail and realism to a whole new level, elevating it from a being just toy train to a model worthy of display anywhere in the house, which is what LEGO intended.
Of course, AFOLs have built bigger and arguably more accurate and detailed models of this, and many other iconic locomotives, but I think this one strikes just the right balance between size and practicality.
Designer Pierre Normandin has done a commendable job of producing something that not only looks good, but which can also be used as a regular LEGO train, on LEGO's ridiculously tight curves and points, should you wish. Personally I think it looks a bit daft when traversing them, but it's good that it's possible.
Much has been said about the brown livery and whether it's a bit drab. I thought it might have been, too, but now having built and displayed it, I think it looks excellent: subdued and sophisticated.
Would dark green have been better? Perhaps, but then 10194 Emerald Night was dark green so using it again was unlikely.
I'm happy to report that there are no discernable colour inconsistencies in the parts, which might not have been the case with dark green and certainly wouldn't have been for dark red! Whether they will crack, like some have reported brown pieces doing in the past, only time will, although I personally have never experienced that.
As usual, I'm finding it difficult to say anything negative about it. Even the price, £90 / $100, seems perfectly reasonable for a 1271-piece set.
Overall, a worthy addition to LEGO's loco shed and one that will undoubtedly be highly sought-after and revered long after its retirement.
It will be available from LEGO.com from 1st July.
Tomorrow I will discuss motorising the locomotive with both Powered Up, for which it's been designed, and also Power Functions, for which it has not.
Thanks to LEGO for providing the set for review. All opinions expressed are my own.
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81 comments on this article
"I don't like going back over instructions for the second part of such builds, so I made them in parallel."
And to think, I always felt guilty for doing that, like I was cheating & being too impatient...
Its a jolly nice & classy-looking train, but it would be more interesting if it were a non-'mirrored' locomotive, especially when it comes to the build.
I like it, not as much as the Emerald Night and Maersk trains; but maybe more than the Horizon Express. My main reason for purchasing it will be to hopefully help demonstrate a demand for more trains in the future. Anyone the BZPower Discord server might have seen my awfully long rant a few days back about other trains I think would be appropriate for this series as it goes on, and there is a lot of possibilities in the future if Lego commits to keeping the trains coming. I think we are due for another steam engine (that is not based on an early American 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 like the many 'Wild West-esque' steamers we have had in the last few years). The British A4 would make a great piece, I also think a massive late American steamer like Big Boy would be insanely cool, or if Lego wanted to experiment with narrow gauge something weird like a Ffestiniog Double Fairlie would be neat. An African or Australia style Garratt would also be a uniquely cool model. Stepherson's Rocket could make a unique gift with purchase model (imagine a Big Boy set with the Rocket as a GWP... one of the longest steam trains next to one of the smallest)
Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Not cool.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/899ca545-49a5-4102-aef8-154bb71ac6ea
@M_longer said:
"Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Not cool.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/899ca545-49a5-4102-aef8-154bb71ac6ea "
There are documented photographs of prototypes for a Lego Crocodile in brown back in the 12v era. Since its based on a real locomotive, the Ideas project has no claim of ownership over the locomotive and its design. Not to mention that Lego in their defense can show they were developing a 12v locomotive back in the 80's or 90's or so based on the Crocodile locomotive, LONG before it ever was on Lego Ideas. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/9-9w9muT8cPi3LERj_Gk8NvTjh_RXWqcMz2VyOIoxqZVAbdrloz-Kah2L7uVGkGgexyugvbOpDdnll6Re-2ynjdCCoEVqeWtOP-JEfvfrOYVer4MgESzwcZydTJ_Ig
Any chance of a side-by-side with 10183, Lego Hobby Train's crocodile?
^^^^ To be fair, and I'm not saying that it never happens, but on a few occasions that I am aware of, TLG was already working on a similar set on its own before the corresponding Ideas submission, and consequently doesn't approve it in the review stage. Chances are good that this specific set was already worked on in 2017.
The Ideas submission is stunning though...
I'm definitely buying this set but two things bug me:
- The gaps between the cab and nose sections is too big. I understand it's needed to run curves, but in the side view it's ugly.
- "Just like the real locomotive, the three sections of its body are articulated...".
Only they're not articulated like the real locomotive. The drivers underneath the cab should be attached to the nose section, not to the cab section.
I love Lego trains! I still believe it is a theme that TLG should spend more energy and focus, not deliver 20 sets in a year, but imagine, acessories and small builds such as stations or rail crossings would be very welcome even for kids. I remember collecting 9v sets and we had cargo stations, cleaning sheds, multiple railroad maintenance vehicles... Will buy this one for display
If Lego included a sticker for the plaque that had the Emerald Night details, I bet they would sell twice as many.
Thank you for showing how the 7-wide ends are constructed! These 3x3 plates sure are a godsend, aren't they?
With a parts collection as extensive as yours, I'm really surprised you've never had brown pieces break on you! Knock on wood...
The only train I have is the Emerald Night that has been circling our winter village display for the last 10 years. Looking forward to tomorrow’s review. If it can be motorized with the same Power Functions as the EN then will most likely pick this up. Great review!
Thanks for the review @Huw . I’m happy that LEGO are releasing this and will get it, even if the ideas submission looked better. But there is one thing that looked awkward in the press release: the 3rd axle wheels don’t have the inner rim and looked like they were floating. That looks less apparent on your photos but they are taken at an angle. Can you elaborate whether this gap is really present on the real model?
Cheers
I’d love to see a more well-known train, such as a Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 “Big Boy”, the Southern Railway 4-8-4 “Mikado”, or the LNER “Flying Scotsman” done in this style!
This would look great in my grandad’s office. He likes trains a lot and has a very large model railway in his garage. Might be an idea for Christmas if the whole family puts some money towards it, I’d it stays on the shelves that long...
I’m not much of a train guy but it doesn’t look bad and, to me, doesn’t look like 1200 pieces
Terrific model; I was about to buy it on 1 July, but when I saw that it's 10 euros more expensive in Belgium, I somehow don't feel like it anymore… I'll wait for a GWP or my next trip to Germany! I guess the Scandinavian countries get even worse a deal…
I don't get these price differences, especially since the Chinese New Year set has a coherent price (€100) in most European countries…
A definite buy!
The Lego Group sure loves the crocodile - it's the third version.
It doesn't appeal to me as I'm only a Lego train person not an expert but I see the appeal to some people.
I'm just surprised that Lego has decided on this particular locomotive as the "next big thing" . While it's appealing to the European market, an American or a Chinese train might have been a better money maker.
As for this being an Ideas submission:
- it failed to reach 10k supporters
- based on a real train, not an original idea so TLG has every right to make its own version
Thanks @Huw
I'm waiting for your tomorrow's article about the motorising.
I'm wondering if the AAA Battery Box will fit with the IR Receiver and a M-Motor (part 16512).
The XL-Motor (part 16513 or 58121) used in the Emerald Night seems to be to large.
A quick google of the train and they had some in dark red or even dark blue which could have been an excellent alternative color to this model as obviously this train has been documented by Matthes Holger and he did it in this same color 3 years ago. Lego should have picked a different color, although I don’t mind it personally.
Oh and fantastic review of the set by the way. Love all your reviews!
@M_longer :
There's a simple solution to that. Don't submit stuff that's bound to get rejected for stepping on the toes of other themes.
@kkoster79:
One factor that nobody seems to be mentioning is color availability. The more of these parts that were in current production, the less "frames" they have to burn on it. Less common colors are, therefore, likely to stay less common for the simple fact that they'd need so many Q elements to make it happen. That may force them to switch to stickers if the numbers are fairly close, but in extreme cases it's far more likely to happen if they can piggyback on a major licensed theme that has a lot more resources at their disposal
@LegoSonicBoy said:
"With a parts collection as extensive as yours, I'm really surprised you've never had brown pieces break on you! Knock on wood..."
I'm with Huw on this one. I have tons of reddish brown as well as dark brown pieces and never had any problems.
What did break sometimes during my childhood were Technic 1 by X plates with rounded toothed ends in light grey. But that might have been a combination of brittle plastic and hard play and constant assembly and disassembly. Plus, many of my construction ms back then didn't adhere to LEGO's building rules so that quite often my techniques looked cool and worked but might have overstressed the parts used.
About the set, I like almost everything about it. Only negatives for me are the huge gaps between the center section and the noses and the wrong construction of the chassis versus the drive train. But I guess that was a necessary compromise to ensure playability.
Is the black hairpiece is new in that color? I don't recall seeing it black before.
Never seen whips used like that in an official set before. Is this the first time they've overlapped pieces like that? If it is, it's cool to see Lego broadening its range of legal techniques.
@csiramokus said:
"I'm just surprised that Lego has decided on this particular locomotive as the "next big thing" . While it's appealing to the European market, an American or a Chinese train might have been a better money maker."
There sure are plenty of iconic US trains but I would love to know whether there are any Chinese trains that could even remotely be called iconic. Hell, I am quite the train guy tbh, but all that comes to mind when I think of Chinese trains is either licenced versions of other countries' locos or run-of-the-mill utilitarian workhorses with no sort of rememberability whatsoever.
Anyone correct me if I am wrong.
@kkoster79 said:
"A quick google of the train and they had some in dark red or even dark blue which could have been an excellent alternative color to this model as obviously this train has been documented by Matthes Holger and he did it in this same color 3 years ago. Lego should have picked a different color, although I don’t mind it personally.
Oh and fantastic review of the set by the way. Love all your reviews!"
Where have you googled to have found that in Switzerland we have had this model in dark blue and dark red?
The Ce6/8 only received a green or brown livery.
The Austrian Crocodile was also in red-orange, not dark red.
And the German Crocodile in Turquoise.
@AustinPowers said:
"I'm with Huw on this one. I have tons of reddish brown as well as dark brown pieces and never had any problems. "
I have not data to back up my assumption, but I wonder if it's only brown parts made in Mexico that are prone to cracking, which would explain why you and I have not see the problem.
@Tom_Lux said:
"Thanks for the review @Huw . I’m happy that LEGO are releasing this and will get it, even if the ideas submission looked better. But there is one thing that looked awkward in the press release: the 3rd axle wheels don’t have the inner rim and looked like they were floating. That looks less apparent on your photos but they are taken at an angle. Can you elaborate whether this gap is really present on the real model?
Cheers"
Yes there is a gap between the wheel and the track, about 1mm. It's hardly noticeable.
@AustinPowers:
The brittle plastic issue is from a specific range of years, though I couldn't begin to tell you what that range is. If you've got affected parts, there'd be a period of time where you could assemble and disassemble them without any problems, but at some point the first/next time you attached them to something they would crack or splinter. If the part is larger, you could probably even snap it using just your fingers.
The toothed Technic plates were just prone to breaking because of their design. A surprising number of early parts have been discontinued because they were really fragile, like the old 2-stage ladders, the aerial antenna, and anything that featured the same toothed design as your Technic plates (I know there were half-bushes, plates, and axle connectors). I've also never heard of any elements from the last century having batch-related issues, which you'd expect to be the case if it was an issue with the plastic. The closest they had with that was strictly in terms of the type of plastic used, which is why they abandoned Cellulose Acetate for opaque bricks and Acrylic for transparent ones. I think the earliest batch-related issue I've ever heard of was the black rubber bands from the earliest Bionicle sets that debuted in 2001. I've got similar rubber bands from the Aquazone days that are on assembled models and are fine, but any black rubber band I got in 2001 would instantly lose its sheen the first time you stretched it, and would be noticeably deteriorated by the end of the week. And then they stopped using those altogether in favor of the brightly-colored Technic bands for all future Bionicle sets.
Really like this. Classy and different
While this obviously is a very long crocodile train, as it was specificly designed for the gotthardbahn in the Alps, with steep turns, and inclines, the first US electric trains were fairly similar, just didn't have as long of a nose, look up Steeplecab design trains.
Even the worlds first electric railway , which was in the US in 1895, used a train that looked like a mini-crocodile.
So this say this is a strictly European train, maybe so, but the shorter versions of such trains were a worldwide thing in the early 1900s.
that's cool!
Is there any chance we could ever see an electric italian locomotive? The FS Class E656 (the most famous italian locomotive) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FS_Class_E.656
Plus I would like it to see in its original livery (dark blue + white, even if it's more of a very light gray)
@Huw I experimented broken dark brown pieces in the Ninjago City, and also in the past, in the Fire Brigade.
So I guess it's not only in parts from Mexico
To add to the Reddish Brown brittle debate, I took apart my UCS Sandcrawler a couple of months ago and got a few 1x1 tile clips that broke on me, but that could be why that part was redesigned a couple of years ago. I was almost dreading taking it apart, as I'd heard tales of loads of that part breaking, but thankfull I only had a few which did.
@Duq said:
...
- The gaps between the cab and nose sections is too big. I understand it's needed to run curves, but in the side view it's ugly.
...
It has to negotiate not only curves but also at least slightest slopes. I think this is also main reason for blind wheels being elevated a bit. Without it it would derail on 1plate elevation changes like orange City tram does...
I'm impressed with the design from functional point of view.
@lluisgib said:
" @Huw I experimented broken dark brown pieces in the Ninjago City, and also in the past, in the Fire Brigade.
So I guess it's not only in parts from Mexico"
I have broken pieces (tiles and plates) in dark brown in the Ewok Village (year 2013) as in reddish brown in a Pirates of the Caribbean set of 2011, 8677 Ultimate Build Mater (also 2011) and the Sopwith Camel (2012).
why does it seem that steam/diesel locomotives are way more popular than electric ones?
@M_longer This a completely wrong and short-sighted assumption. This model isn't even something originally made but rather an actual commercial train designed in real-life. With that dense "reasoning" the entire SW line is stolen.
Thanks for the info about European brown parts. I guess I've just been lucky, then.
There seems to be no pleasing some LEGO fans! I think its a brilliant set, the design is quirky, the colour matches the source perfectly. It'll make a great display piece in my LEGO room and with the hub and motors I bought the other day, a nice addition to our small train layout we build from time to time. I'm already musing on some wagons or carriages to be pulled behind it. Great review @huw
@Lego_Prime said:
"I’d love to see a more well-known train, such as a Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 “Big Boy”, the Southern Railway 4-8-4 “Mikado”, or the LNER “Flying Scotsman” done in this style!"
In continental Europe this loco is very well known and regarded as iconic. From my point of view a good Choice!
This locomotive and others of that era had no drivers‘ seats. The german word is „Führerstand“ (driver‘s stand).
I don't like trains but this looks great.
I took 75020-1 Jabba's Sail Barge apart just a a few days ago, and nothing broke - including clips, of which there are quite a lot. Just my small contribution to this debate...
@M_longer said:
"Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Not cool.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/899ca545-49a5-4102-aef8-154bb71ac6ea"
Aside from the content, the build is completely different. So by your logic, Lego would be unable to produce anything that other fans have also designed. Doesn't make sense at all.
@Paperballpark said:
"To add to the Reddish Brown brittle debate, I took apart my UCS Sandcrawler a couple of months ago and got a few 1x1 tile clips that broke on me, but that could be why that part was redesigned a couple of years ago. I was almost dreading taking it apart, as I'd heard tales of loads of that part breaking, but thankfull I only had a few which did."
Me too
@Paperballpark said:
"To add to the Reddish Brown brittle debate, I took apart my UCS Sandcrawler a couple of months ago and got a few 1x1 tile clips that broke on me, but that could be why that part was redesigned a couple of years ago. I was almost dreading taking it apart, as I'd heard tales of loads of that part breaking, but thankfull I only had a few which did."
You know what I’ve had even more problems with? Dark red. I swear, I’ve had at least 15 parts crack on me. I was disassembling my Z-95 Headhunter the other day and the massive red piece that makes up most of the nose snapped at the wider end.
@UProbeck said:
" @Lego_Prime said:
"I’d love to see a more well-known train, such as a Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 “Big Boy”, the Southern Railway 4-8-4 “Mikado”, or the LNER “Flying Scotsman” done in this style!"
In continental Europe this loco is very well known and regarded as iconic. From my point of view a good Choice!"
As I live in North America, I’m unfamiliar with this model of locomotive but I agree that it has been represented wonderfully based on images I have seen. My hope is that other trains are represented in a similar fashion, and that this isn’t a one-and-done thing. I’d love to see a sub-theme of sorts revolve around model trains like this one!
Its gonna be a toss up wether to buy this or the Apollo 11 Lunar Lander?? I've been after the Lander for a while, but I'll probably pick this up eventually!!
I really like that they're selling another beautifully-designed, expansive Lego train set ...
... but I'm just not okay that they're using reddish-brown.
Not only does it look visually unappealing, but it's reddish-brown. I think that's awfully risky. I've had a tonne of reddish-brown bricks and plates crack, shatter and break after a few years. I only have a single custom engine (out of fifty or so of the darn things) made out of reddish-brown, and the reason why is that, a month ago when I took it apart to clean and dust it, all the plates and slopes cracked and shattered.
If they'd released 10277 in dark blue, it would've been a day-one purchase for me, but in reddish-brown? Given how expensive these things are, that's a huge gamble, and I'm not sure I want to risk it.
Hey, I'm not too familiar with Lego trains, but does anyone think this has the potential to skyrocket in value like the Emerald night? I would assume since not many Lego trains are released these days that this might become rare. I am asking this as like buying 2-3 of them as investment.
@Zordboy said:
"I really like that they're selling another beautifully-designed, expansive Lego train set ...
... but I'm just not okay that they're using reddish-brown.
Not only does it look visually unappealing, but it's reddish-brown. I think that's awfully risky. I've had a tonne of reddish-brown bricks and plates crack, shatter and break after a few years. I only have a single custom engine (out of fifty or so of the darn things) made out of reddish-brown, and the reason why is that, a month ago when I took it apart to clean and dust it, all the plates and slopes cracked and shattered.
If they'd released 10277 in dark blue, it would've been a day-one purchase for me, but in reddish-brown? Given how expensive these things are, that's a huge gamble, and I'm not sure I want to risk it. "
Counterpoint: The dark-blue cheese slopes I put on the roof of my Ideas TARDIS when I modified the set have all cracked, some even look like they are being held in by their neighbor. Not to mention, it wouldn't haven prototypical to be the engine in dark blue.
So, if your a Lego designer reading this: Danged if you do, danged if you don't. ;-)
^I wouldn't do that if I were you. Since we aren't privy to Lego's plans, who is to say this train stays available for 3 to 4 years before retiring and a new train is released? Similarly, this could become the new "Technic Licensed Supercar" thing and a new train could be released every other year, meaning this one would be gone after 2 years and indeed go up in value. It's a total toss-up, not worth buying more than 2 in the hopes of scoring a big payday. Unless you know you live around a lot of Lego newbies or just plain saps who will pay whatever you say its worth, Lego investment is a fool's game unless you just happen to have tons of capital already to throw at it.
That said, it is my biased hope that this is the beginning of a new, regular line of elegantly-designed Expert-level, "18+" train sets. And if the history with the Technic supercars can teach us anything, it's that the next trains will be even more impressive and desirable, leaving this one (as pioneering and wonderful as it is) in the proverbial dust, desirable really only to completists.
But I am glad we got this review well in advance of the release date! I am impressed, and convinced I need to build some elevated "electric" lines over my rails so this Crocodile Locomotive can run as intended!
@Lego_Lord_Mayorca said:
"^I wouldn't do that if I were you. Since we aren't privy to Lego's plans, who is to say this train stays available for 3 to 4 years before retiring and a new train is released? Similarly, this could become the new "Technic Licensed Supercar" thing and a new train could be released every other year, meaning this one would be gone after 2 years and indeed go up in value. It's a total toss-up, not worth buying more than 2 in the hopes of scoring a big payday. Unless you know you live around a lot of Lego newbies or just plain saps who will pay whatever you say its worth, Lego investment is a fool's game unless you just happen to have tons of capital already to throw at it.
That said, it is my biased hope that this is the beginning of a new, regular line of elegantly-designed Expert-level, "18+" train sets. And if the history with the Technic supercars can teach us anything, it's that the next trains will be even more impressive and desirable, leaving this one (as pioneering and wonderful as it is) in the proverbial dust, desirable really only to completists.
But I am glad we got this review well in advance of the release date! I am impressed, and convinced I need to build some elevated "electric" lines over my rails so this Crocodile Locomotive can run as intended!"
Thanks for the info! I'll keep that in mind.
EDIT: I'd probably wait until year later, if no new trains are released and this is still available from Shop @Home, then I might pick it up. Only time will tell.
Like the Marklin version I've wanted to buy for ages, it's really expensive. But it's gorgeous.
My only problem--the brown color. A deep red would be elegant, and refreshing.
@Zordboy said:
"I really like that they're selling another beautifully-designed, expansive Lego train set ...
... but I'm just not okay that they're using reddish-brown.
Not only does it look visually unappealing, but it's reddish-brown. I think that's awfully risky. I've had a tonne of reddish-brown bricks and plates crack, shatter and break after a few years. I only have a single custom engine (out of fifty or so of the darn things) made out of reddish-brown, and the reason why is that, a month ago when I took it apart to clean and dust it, all the plates and slopes cracked and shattered.
If they'd released 10277 in dark blue, it would've been a day-one purchase for me, but in reddish-brown? Given how expensive these things are, that's a huge gamble, and I'm not sure I want to risk it. "
They've already fixed it as of 2018. Since we're getting inconsistently coloured parts in 2020, I expect that we'll get durable brown parts in 2020 as well ;) I mean, we've also been getting the T. rex, the Tree House, Pirates of Barracuda Bay... and these things have a limited lifetime warranty and LEGO has made it explicit that they will replace, where possible, brown parts of any age that have broken.
@jlskywalker said:
"I love Lego trains! I still believe it is a theme that TLG should spend more energy and focus, not deliver 20 sets in a year, but imagine, acessories and small builds such as stations or rail crossings would be very welcome even for kids. I remember collecting 9v sets and we had cargo stations, cleaning sheds, multiple railroad maintenance vehicles... Will buy this one for display "
I agree we need more buildings for trains. I think they should attempt a 4 by 4 roundhouse, water towers, and caternary system would be cool. Locomotives I want to see in lego form are The J1E NYC Hudson(favorite engine for me), second either a UP Challenger or big boy, BR 10 and av4 mallard. These are my opinions
It will because it has major cult following in Europe just like the emerald night set
I would just like to say that I have never had a broken brown Lego piece...
Hmm still looks ugly for a train , why not Puffing Billy From Melb Australia , it would look fantastic as a display piece with a bridge and a bit of forest
https://puffingbilly.com.au
I really wish Brickiest would get some fact checkers to check the reviews and 'news' it post. The torso is not new, it's Alan Grant's torso, to the point that even the neck printing is skin tone and not yellow.
@yap said:
"And the German Crocodile in Turquoise."
Actually the official name of the colour was "ozeanblau" (plus accents in "creme/Elfenbein" which was sort of a mixture between tan and light yellow), a colour not found in the LEGO range of colours. The next best thing would be dark blue.
Plus, I think only one German Crocodile (class E94 / 194) was ever painted in the ozeanblau - elfenbein livery.
It started off in the Reichsbahn era by the way - in a colour close to dark bluish grey.
Most people will probably only remember its look from after the war when it was either painted dark green with black bogies (West Germany), normal green with red bogies (East Germany) or reddish-orange ("Blutorange" I think the official name was) with black bogies (Austria).
@LegoSonicBoy: if they released the set in dark blue it would have been a fantasy model, as like others have mentioned the CE 6/8 never sported a dark blue livery, nor a dark red one. It only came in this reddish brown as well as a dark green version. Perhaps photos appear to show the colour as dark red or dark blue respectively, depending on lighting conditions, but it would be just an optical illusion.
@AustinPowers: Ah, I was quoting and replying to Zordboy on that one.
Brickset needs to visually distinguish quotations somehow, the quotation marks don't really cut it. Maybe using blockquotes? @Huw
^ Yes I will look into it.
@minishark1000 said:
"Hey, I'm not too familiar with Lego trains, but does anyone think this has the potential to skyrocket in value like the Emerald night? I would assume since not many Lego trains are released these days that this might become rare. I am asking this as like buying 2-3 of them as investment."
I'd say it's best to invest in something you're knowlegdable about, something that you like. The Horizon Express didn't go up in value too quickly. Maybe also because a lot of people wanted to buy two of them, making it expensive already.
But the value will likely not become less, and for anyone wanting to buy it after production has ceased, it's good to have a large stock available, keeping the prices within reasonable limits.
@Huw
"With the notable exception of 10194 Emerald Night, LEGO trains tend to look like toys and not the sort of thing that many people would want to display in their living room."
The Santa Fe and BNSF seem pretty good for display as well imho (having had them on display for years). Although admittedly that's not very recent...
BTW, thought of buying this right away, but seeing that it's 10 euros more in the Netherlands once again I'll wait for a discount.
@Wrecknbuild said:
" @minishark1000 said:
"Hey, I'm not too familiar with Lego trains, but does anyone think this has the potential to skyrocket in value like the Emerald night? I would assume since not many Lego trains are released these days that this might become rare. I am asking this as like buying 2-3 of them as investment."
I'd say it's best to invest in something you're knowlegdable about, something that you like. The Horizon Express didn't go up in value too quickly. Maybe also because a lot of people wanted to buy two of them, making it expensive already.
But the value will likely not become less, and for anyone wanting to buy it after production has ceased, it's good to have a large stock available, keeping the prices within reasonable limits."
Somehow I doubt it, for the value to increase noticeably it has to have a wide appeal to those looking in the future when it is no longer available and either wish to have it in a running display or on the mantelpiece. From the previous reviews, there does not seem to be much appeal at the moment. The comment about buying two Horizon express was to join them together to make a more realistic length train, which does not apply here. Together with the other creator trains, there were three carriages which will always have more value and appeal than just a train shunter with nothing to shunt. More importantly, in the future if there are more desirable steam or high speed trains then collectors will spend their money elsewhere. There are lots and lots of articles on Lego as an investment which are worth reading, at the moment modular builds seem to have a long term appeal but like all investments really needed to be buying from the start (as in today's stowage solution), with the oldest becoming the rarest and most sought after.
"Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Not cool.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/899ca545-49a5-4102-aef8-154bb71ac6ea"
I had the same thought after reading about this new Lego set. Few weeks ago, when I saw the amazing Crocodile Locomotive SBB Ce 6/8 III set that redera00 user submitted as candidate on Lego IDEAS section, I really like it and and also supported it. His model gained lot of interest, nevertheless it was sad to know that the project didn't won the IDEAS competition. Only after few weeks, the same train model (different build, obviously, but 90% similar), with the same color, and even the same black faded background renders was presented by TLG as new 18+ set. I'm happy to know that a beautiful set could be soon on my hands, but surprised on how an IDEAS candidate became an official set. I hope that redera00 was involved in the engineering process of this set. I'd be curious to know what redera00 thinks about this...
@Huw
"...After all, adults don't play with minifigs, do they..."
I must vividly assure you, we play not!
Hahahahahahahaha!
"...Whether they will crack, like some have reported brown pieces doing in the past, only time will, although I personally have never experienced that..."
Oh, boy, do they snap (along with dark red ones)! :-(
@M_longer said:
"Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Per Lego Ideas Terms of Service,
"In exchange for use of the Platform, and to the extent that your contributions through use of the Platform give rise to any intellectual property right interest, hereunder copyright, patent rights, design rights etc., you hereby assign all rights worldwide to the content generated by you to LEGO, meaning that LEGO and co-marketing partners can use your contributions in any way and for any purpose, including to reproduce, manufacture, copy, adapt, modify, perform, display, publish, sell, broadcast, transmit, or communicate to the public by any means whether now known or unknown and distribute your contributions for the whole duration of protection granted to intellectual property rights by applicable laws and international conventions."
Lego can absolutely use submissions that didn't pass review. They can use submissions that didn't even get 10,000 votes. Not saying that this is what Lego did in these instances, but they make it clear that they take ownership over all ideas once submitted to the platform.
I definitely want to get this at some point, after 75288 AT-AT, 75291 Death Star Final Duel, 75283 AAT, 75281 Anakin's Jedi Interceptor, and like 15 of 75280.
@Huw said:
"^ Yes I will look into it."
Thank you for the great work! It‘s always a pleasure to visit this site.
@JintaiZ said:
" @xboxtravis7992 said:
" @M_longer said:
"Oh please, that model was submitted to Ideas and had some possitive feedback. Along with Fiat 500, it shows that TLG is using submissions that did not passed review stage as their own ideas.
Not cool.
https://ideas.lego.com/projects/899ca545-49a5-4102-aef8-154bb71ac6ea "
There are documented photographs of prototypes for a Lego Crocodile in brown back in the 12v era. Since its based on a real locomotive, the Ideas project has no claim of ownership over the locomotive and its design. Not to mention that Lego in their defense can show they were developing a 12v locomotive back in the 80's or 90's or so based on the Crocodile locomotive, LONG before it ever was on Lego Ideas. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/9-9w9muT8cPi3LERj_Gk8NvTjh_RXWqcMz2VyOIoxqZVAbdrloz-Kah2L7uVGkGgexyugvbOpDdnll6Re-2ynjdCCoEVqeWtOP-JEfvfrOYVer4MgESzwcZydTJ_Ig "
I agree, but The LEGO Group should give credit to the fan designer."
Yes, I mean exactly this. Lego loved SBB Ce 6/8 III locomotive for a long time and sets 4551 and 10183 can prove it. I agree that TLG owns every proposed IDEAS model, and I agree that no one can own the right to reproduce an old loco model, but hey, if we compare the two models (redera00 one and TLG one) there's so little difference that, at least, the designer should receive credits and be mentioned somewhere.
I like it... will buy it.
Would I like to see something diesel? Heck ya!
On the brown front, I disassembled my Lego mountain made entirely from thousands 2x2, 2x3, 2x4, and 2x6 purchased from Lego and BrickLink and I had only one 2x3 break and it was honestly my fault because I put a LOT of torque on that particular piece when pulling it out of its position.. ;)
@LegoSonicBoy:
I was just thinking that same thing earlier today. It wasn't a problem before there was a "reply" button, but now people just hit it to give a two line response to a multi-paragraph post. It's almost easier to scan up from the bottom and find the end quotes.
@ambr:
There are several things that can drive up the price of a set. Rarity will do it every time, which includes having its production run cut short and leaving a lot of people scrambling to get their hands on a copy before it's sold out. If the theme is very popular, it can drive prices up just due to completists chasing anything they're missing. If the set is a really popular design, it can go up in price on its own merits. And, because these are all boxes of LEGO parts, rare parts can have a weird and unpredictable influence on set prices. Sometimes a rare part will drive the set price up accordingly, and sometimes the part in question can actually sneak up unnoticed and end up costing more than the set it comes in (I've actually just found two examples of this recently).
@gabrielebellini:
That project washed out with only 2277 supporters of the 10k needed to get to review. Why would they consult him on a project that never even got 1/4 of the required votes?
@mclemore:
I had a chunk rip out of the end of a 1x2 brick in old brown. But to be fair, the same incident killed a perfectly functional 9v train motor. We did a show that had two train bridges, and my TMNT Shellraiser wouldn't clear either bridge. But I'd already gotten it out, and we had a couple of sidings, so I decided to put it out just for display. One line was switched to the outside loop, and the other one was just straight track. I put it on the line that was completely dead, just in case. At some point during the show, one of the other members wanted to swap trains and threw the switch to drive it onto the switched line. My Shellraiser (which is a hefty brick) shot off the end of the layout onto a hard gym floor. Someone had apparently shuffled some of the trains around, and shifted my Shellraiser from the dead line to the switched line. There was nothing in front of it, and since it only sits on a 9v motor it takes off like a rocket. Considering how short a runway it had, how heavy it is, and how not-aerodynamic it is, it did achieve a pretty remarkable distance. The sides are a complex pattern of small plates meant to mimic the graffiti from the show, so the model pretty much shattered on impact, but besides the motor and that one 1x2 brick, everything seemed to be unscathed. Since then, I've built a dummy "motor" for when I've just got it parked. It's the same size as a 9v motor, but I didn't want to take any more chances, so I even used 1x2 Technic bricks with axle-holes to prevent the wheels from rolling.
@PurpleDave said:
" @gabrielebellini:
That project washed out with only 2277 supporters of the 10k needed to get to review. Why would they consult him on a project that never even got 1/4 of the required votes?"
Because TLG took almost the same model. If an IDEAS project doesn't reach the minimum number of supporters I don't expect Lego to take the same idea and sell it on another theme (even if they contractually can). Being redera00 I would be happy if my project (which didn't pass IDEAS 10k threshold) will be sold on another Lego theme. Being TLG, I would mention somehow or somewhere the creator.
I love this.
I am finding the reddish brown bricks are not lasting very well in my 10226 Sopwith Camel. Not sure if that is the years of production you believe have issues, or if the model was from Mexico, as I thought until recently Australian sets were sourced from their European warehouse and I purchased my Sopwith directly from Lego.
@redera00:
Ah, but the question is, do you believe you are _owed_ credit for this set? Because a few people seem to think you are.
@ArmoredBRIX:
It's not so much a matter of age as it is when the parts were molded. Someone posted a span of years in a different comment section. Parts made before that span were fine, and parts made after that span should be as well (they've apparently claimed they solved the problem). Parts made during that span, in a few specific colors, turn brittle with age. To the eye, they look perfectly fine. Only when they are subjected to stress will they splinter. So, if you haven't built anything with them recently, it's impossible to say if they're fine, or if they're just heartbreak waiting to happen.
It is certainly interesting, I haven't had the same issue in another set. I may have to slowly 'replace' pieces over time, as I really like the set.
@PurpleDave said:
@ambr :
There are several things that can drive up the price of a set. Rarity will do it every time, which includes having its production run cut short and leaving a lot of people scrambling to get their hands on a copy before it's sold out. If the theme is very popular, it can drive prices up just due to completists chasing anything they're missing. If the set is a really popular design, it can go up in price on its own merits. And, because these are all boxes of LEGO parts, rare parts can have a weird and unpredictable influence on set prices. Sometimes a rare part will drive the set price up accordingly, and sometimes the part in question can actually sneak up unnoticed and end up costing more than the set it comes in (I've actually just found two examples of this recently).
I don't disagree with your comments, but they could apply to any of the 1000s of sets produced each year. I was just providing a word of caution as the original posting seemed a bit too enthusiastic about a potential multi-buy when no-one knows. Past creator trains have only become over-popular, as there has being no new supply in the last 10 years. If Lego over supplies in the future then this won't be a problem. Over supply seems to be happening with Star Wars, where the oldest sets would be far more valuable if we where not on the 3rd or 4th iteration of some of them. My main concern is there is no obvious tangible popular link to hook future collectors, by which I mean the tumbler will always be popular because its Batman, a Ferrari is a Ferrari etc. Maybe Huw could explore this in more detail for us, but guessing the most expensive sets increase in value the most hence previous comment on Creator Modules, and also ideally need to buy when at a discount and not the launch price.
@EmersonDAnite said:
"Any chance of a side-by-side with 10183, Lego Hobby Train's crocodile?"
Here you go. I threw in 4551 Crocodile Locomotive from 1991 as well.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15BUg6b8f0GHCJ4txgCPvNtNyLPCvNSOQ/view?usp=sharing