@MeisterDad said:
"Yellow treads? I wonder what the piece count is."

3854 apparently and a price about 1.5 times the Zetros.

This might just be the first Control+ Technic set I’ll buy. Of course it will depend on how many Aussie dollars they want for it.

In all the Technic feedback questionnaires I had asked for a JCB backhoe loader to update 8862 to go with the Volvo 42114 , where the shovel could lift high enough to drop bricks into the bucket. Plus you could have fun with the digger at the back. Maybe next Christmas, which will give TLG time to figure out how to use pneumatics with control+ (or something simpler) as this would be an incentive to purchase.

@ambr said:
"In all the Technic feedback questionnaires I had asked for a JCB backhoe loader to update 8862 to go with the Volvo 42114 , where the shovel could lift high enough to drop bricks into the bucket. Plus you could have fun with the digger at the back. Maybe next Christmas, which will give TLG time to figure out how to use pneumatics with control+ (or something simpler) as this would be an incentive to purchase."

8862 was actually based on a Caterpillar backhoe, funnily enough.

@MeisterDad said:
"Yellow treads? I wonder what the piece count is."

It's 3854.

Power ladders...but no left to right swing for the blade, ok.

I do like it a lot, but Control + is a turn off. Maybe when it reaches £250!

@maaboo35 said:
" @ambr said:
"In all the Technic feedback questionnaires I had asked for a JCB backhoe loader to update 8862 to go with the Volvo 42114 , where the shovel could lift high enough to drop bricks into the bucket. Plus you could have fun with the digger at the back. Maybe next Christmas, which will give TLG time to figure out how to use pneumatics with control+ (or something simpler) as this would be an incentive to purchase."

8862 was actually based on a Caterpillar backhoe, funnily enough."

8862 is actually named JCB by TLG on at least one official poster

@nineteenseventyfour said:
" @maaboo35 said:
" @ambr said:
"In all the Technic feedback questionnaires I had asked for a JCB backhoe loader to update 8862 to go with the Volvo 42114 , where the shovel could lift high enough to drop bricks into the bucket. Plus you could have fun with the digger at the back. Maybe next Christmas, which will give TLG time to figure out how to use pneumatics with control+ (or something simpler) as this would be an incentive to purchase."

8862 was actually based on a Caterpillar backhoe, funnily enough."

8862 is actually named JCB by TLG on at least one official poster"

That is true, and probably something to do with the fact that JCB is a catchall term for backhoe loaders. 8862 closely resembles a Caterpillar 416.

Can anyone catch me up on the issues with Control+? …I loved the old power function remotes from about 15yrs back.

@Wolfolo said:
" @arathemis said:
"it will be around 230 pieces of yellow treads, if i counted correctly.
Anyway....this would have been awesome with PF. Control + on the other hand, not so much. C+ needs to go away.
Paying 450 Euros and in 4-5 years, when the app is obsolete, you`` `will just have a static CAT to look at."

I already have a static Liebherr excavator and Volvo dumper, another static CATerpillar shouldn't make things worse... TLG made a great mistake with C+, at least by cutting out the old very large base of PF owners which are forced to 3rd party options to get usable features... and the price which is all the way into the madness compared to what you got with PF"

Why going third party is a bad idea? I think it's instead a good thing.

This is cool. It reminds me of set 8275. However I won't buy it because it's too large and it's too expensive for me.

That thing is huge.

@blackdeathgr said:
[[a) Yellow tracks? meh and unrealistic

@arathemis said:
b) Anyway....this would have been awesome with PF. Control + on the other hand, not so much. C+ needs to go away.
Paying 450 Euros and in 4-5 years, when the app is obsolete, you`` `will just have a static CAT to look at.]]
I totally agree!!! We need a physical control device instead of the Control+ system (or at least add a physical device in its range as well). Apps are so ephemeral...

]]

Unrealistic? https://www.lectura-specs.com/en/model/construction-machinery/bulldozers-caterpillar/d11t-1042556

@matrox2001 said:
" @Huw said:
" @matrox2001 said:
"Mmm.....in the pic of the real one, the tracks are black.. "

It appears that fresh out of the factory they are yellow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDbxWRyCNFU"

Looks like they are. Do you think the paint comes off the lego ones when they are used?"

Yes they are painted yellow at the factory for sure. I'm not sure why as the paint probably comes off in the first 100ft of working. They must want them to look good when being transported by rail and truck and not look all rusty.

First of all, I thought this was total bull. Glad to see it wasn't.

I am very happy for LEGO to have scored the Caterpillar license. However, while this set is impressive, I'm not impressed with the fact it uses Powered Up, which unnecessarily bumps up the cost due to its complexity over the legacy Power Functions. Plus, LEGO needs to realize that not everyone can drop $350-400 on a huge set like this. That is almost my hobby budget for one year (which is $600; $50 a month). $150-200 I can swing. Heck, I'm buying the Heavy Duty Tow Truck when I can afford it. If LEGO wants to do a "big" set; usually 1000-2000 pieces should be the limit.

John Deere (prior to giving the license to Meccano) only offered garbage in terms of their building sets--first Best Lock and later MEGA. First Gear is contracting some junk building toy company to produce Komatsu sets. Ironically, Mega did have the CAT license for a short time. Caterpillar giving the license to THE building toy company is great, and I hope it turns into a theme itself.

I am hoping this CAT license results in more than just this one set. Creator and minifig scale sets, and REASONABLY SIZED Technic sets. If they can do it for 42102 Claas Xerion, it can be done for basically anything in the CAT lineup. Diecast Masters (CAT's official licensee for diecast models) has over $100 or more 1/50 models of dozers and such, but also sub $30 models that are affordable; usually less detailed and aimed at kids. LEGO should do the same.

On another note, I'd like to see some of the same brands LEGO has already licensed for other themes in City. MEGA did produce a few minifig-scale sets when they had the CAT license, though they mostly used it for the huge toddler bricks.

Looking forward to getting this in a few months, once it's discounted as much as the Liebherr.

I would have preferred it not to be Control+ purely because I prefer physical remotes, not for any nonsense about it becoming unusable once Control+ is obsolete!

Obsolete PF remote fails - Pick up another on eBay.
Obsolete Phone fails - Pick up another on eBay.

App-controlled? NOPE. I'll stick with my 951 and 8275.

Yellow treads are interesting but I guess they supposed to be dark bluish-grey or even black to be accurate to real thing.

@cody6268 said:
"I am hoping this CAT license results in more than just this one set. Creator and minifig scale sets, and REASONABLY SIZED Technic sets. If they can do it for 42102 Claas Xerion, it can be done for basically anything in the CAT lineup. Diecast Masters (CAT's official licensee for diecast models) has over $100 or more 1/50 models of dozers and such, but also sub $30 models that are affordable; usually less detailed and aimed at kids. LEGO should do the same.

On another note, I'd like to see some of the same brands LEGO has already licensed for other themes in City. MEGA did produce a few minifig-scale sets when they had the CAT license, though they mostly used it for the huge toddler bricks. "

In the product feedback form for the last Creator Expert set I built, I mentioned wanting the same sort of thing, not even knowing that they got the CAT license. I'm not much of a technic builder, but I love heavy equipment and would appreciate some minifig scale stuff. The second they release minifig scale licensed heavy equipment I will be there begging TLG to take my money.

Control +?
:-(

Unless this set shows some amazing functionality, I will be passing.
Love my 8275 motorized bulldozer with a dedicated remote.

And also it seems too big. The trend recently has been too much towards giant sets with relatively little functionality that move at 2 mm/hr

@Metalizer7734 said:
"Yellow treads are interesting but I guess they supposed to be dark bluish-grey or even black to be accurate to real thing."

Yellow threads are the factory-standard thing. Later, when the paint will chip and wear, they become bluish-grey.

Like for so many others, Control+ is the reason I am not going to buy this or any other Technic set that is hideously overpriced because of it. Plus, the unnecessary licence, which also adds to the cost.

It looks pretty imposing but the asking price of flagship Technic sets is looking pretty insane ever since Control+ and when you get bored of the RC features it's just an expensive scale model, I miss PF and I don't see why they didn't simply introduce the new battery box+receiver but keep the connectors the same.

I stopped buying Technic as I no longer have the space but I still wish the sets were more like they were in the PF era.

Also I love the yellow treads but surely at that price point it would've been reasonable to include black treads too.

This looks fabulous, especially compared to the real version. However, the sheer size and cost unfortunately puts me in the NO category to purchase it. :( I will continue to enjoy the Heavy Duty Tow-Truck, an absolutely joy to build and play with and well worth its price point!

Has anyone notice the recolor for the linear actuators? They look to be black and dark bluish grey.

@RonnyN said:
"I guess I'm the only one planning to buy it BECAUSE of Control+.
I have no problem with newer and better technology being used in LEGO sets."
Read @fakespacesquid 's post for a perfect explanation for why Control+ is actually worse instead of better in almost every way than PF.

"It contains 3,854 pieces including the Control+ smart hub and four motors"

Four motors?
From what I'm seeing, the set has drive (2 motors, either 1 per track or one drive and one steering), blade elevation, blade tilting, ripper elevation, and ladder lowering/raising. Which would be 6 motors. I wonder if this is setup like 8043 where one motor shifts a gearbox, enabling the other 3 motors to operate 6 functions, or if there are some other tricks at play. The back of the box mentions "Alternative Control" with a gear shifter, whatever that means. I guess we'll need to wait until some reviews.

Overall, it looks nice. I love the new track elements. But, I don't know if I need another insanely expensive paperweight sitting around collecting dust.

It's on LEGO's site now.

I bet many wish they had a cheaper option for buying it without the motors.

The bottom-left image on the back of the box shows what looks like a development version of the model with original tracks and actuators. Interesting to see the changes! I think the new tracks will fit existing cog elements.

This without all the electronic gimmicks, which should drop the price significantly, would be way more interesting. I'd pay $250 for it and let me manipulate it by hand, tyvm.

@EvilTwin said:
"Really I don't know why everyone hates Control+ so much. It's just a Bluetooth device isn't it? There appear to be already a couple of alternative apps that people have developed as replacements for the official app. Enthusiasts will ensure there will still be alternatives around for years after Lego have moved on to some other systems. I can still write programs for my 20+ year old Mindstorms RCX units thanks to third party support. Control+ will probably be the same."

It is very odd how people keeping saying in "In X years it will be obsolete and unusable....." there is just zero evidence for this. All these connections are becoming more and more open source and connections and controls are standardizing. You can even control all the EV3 motors with an Arduino interface. The old power function motors have connections that can easily fail and I have a whole bin of them that I'll have to re-solder if I ever get to it.

@legofanboy said:
"This might just be the first Control+ Technic set I’ll buy. Of course it will depend on how many Aussie dollars they want for it."

AU$749.99 - now listed on LEGO
Same price as 42100 Liebherr R 9800 Excavator

I grew up around these things and this is one of CAT's finest machines. Looking forward to it. Take it out in the mud/dirt if you want that worn track look.

@maaboo35 said:
" @quincy said:
"Can anyone catch me up on the issues with Control+? …I loved the old power function remotes from about 15yrs back. "

It lacks the haptic feedback of a physical remote and is reliant on a smart device. Controls are often awkwardly laid out and some functions can be difficult to use as a result. But hey, some profiles feature FART SOUNDS, which is the most important thing and makes up for all of the aforementioned shortcomings."

Can you replace the C+ with powerfunctions with some building?

I haven't had a set with C+ yet, but I totally understand the feel of a control in my hand and not a phone.

Is it possible that someone could create a Bluetooth controller for it? Could you code the C+ to use a Playstation controller?

I've always loved Cats, ever since I was a little boy back in the early 80s riding on my Uncles D9 :)

I've gotta buy this set, but am a bit discouraged by the C+ hate.

@Francis9131 said:
"The back of the box mentions "Alternative Control" with a gear shifter, whatever that means. I guess we'll need to wait until some reviews.

Overall, it looks nice. I love the new track elements. But, I don't know if I need another insanely expensive paperweight sitting around collecting dust. "

"Alternative Control" means second screen option for control, that's all.

@Draug said:
"Could you code the C+ to use a Playstation controller? "

You can, but you still need a phone with an open app for this to work.

@Magyarhammer said:
" @EvilTwin said:
"Really I don't know why everyone hates Control+ so much. It's just a Bluetooth device isn't it? There appear to be already a couple of alternative apps that people have developed as replacements for the official app. Enthusiasts will ensure there will still be alternatives around for years after Lego have moved on to some other systems. I can still write programs for my 20+ year old Mindstorms RCX units thanks to third party support. Control+ will probably be the same."

It is very odd how people keeping saying in "In X years it will be obsolete and unusable....." there is just zero evidence for this. All these connections are becoming more and more open source and connections and controls are standardizing. You can even control all the EV3 motors with an Arduino interface. The old power function motors have connections that can easily fail and I have a whole bin of them that I'll have to re-solder if I ever get to it.

"

How many apps to you know from 2010 that still work nowadays? How many games from the 2000s do you know that still work well with today`s hardware?
How many of those games/apps/software are getting support nowadays? I can barely think of a handful, and I work in this industry, and I`m talking about companies that only do software and nothing else on the side.
How can you possibly think that a company like TLG which has software development as a 2nd hand (or even 3rd or 4th hand) activity, be able to support the software it`s releasing ?
They`re barely able to have a working website ...

@arathemis said:
" @Magyarhammer said:
" @EvilTwin said:
"Really I don't know why everyone hates Control+ so much. It's just a Bluetooth device isn't it? There appear to be already a couple of alternative apps that people have developed as replacements for the official app. Enthusiasts will ensure there will still be alternatives around for years after Lego have moved on to some other systems. I can still write programs for my 20+ year old Mindstorms RCX units thanks to third party support. Control+ will probably be the same."

It is very odd how people keeping saying in "In X years it will be obsolete and unusable....." there is just zero evidence for this. All these connections are becoming more and more open source and connections and controls are standardizing. You can even control all the EV3 motors with an Arduino interface. The old power function motors have connections that can easily fail and I have a whole bin of them that I'll have to re-solder if I ever get to it.

"

How many apps to you know from 2010 that still work nowadays? How many games from the 2000s do you know that still work well with today`s hardware?
How many of those games/apps/software are getting support nowadays? I can barely think of a handful, and I work in this industry, and I`m talking about companies that only do software and nothing else on the side.
How can you possibly think that a company like TLG which has software development as a 2nd hand (or even 3rd or 4th hand) activity, be able to support the software it`s releasing ?
They`re barely able to have a working website ..."

A number of the apps on my iPod Touch 4 no longer exist on the Apple Store.

I have many games on CD-ROM that I bought when I had XP through 7 PCs that no longer work on Windows 10 with modern hardware. Had to buy digital versions in many cases.

On another note, I've noticed a TON of indie games tend to only have support until the creator decided to move onto something else--which in many cases is a couple years or less.

@ToaofPlastic said:
"today I learned how much the technic afol community hates control+"

The ones that post on announcements of a new C+ set.

I love it. Sure loads do too. Not without it's flaws but the "OMG what are you gonna do in 5 years?" crowd are annoying. I can print to a printer from 199-odd as it uses an open standard.

BLE isn't legos creation, it's a standard.

As cool as this set is I don’t get why it costs more than the Liebherr which is also licensed, has more pieces, 7 motors vs 4, 2 smart hubs vs 1. Perhaps Lego are cashing in on the AFOL community as they’ve labelled it 18+ even though the Liebherr is just as big and complex but is suitable for ages 12+…
Personally I don’t really see the point of licenced Technic sets, they never used to be, to me it is perfectly good enough to base sets on their real life counterparts without having to pay for expensive licences.
I love lego but they need to be careful as they are starting to price a lot of people out of the hobby, it’d be a travesty if Lego was to solely become a toy for the rich and wealthy and force people to buy the cheap Chinese clones.

@mrdoofa : in Germany, this is already happening on a large scale. Ever more people are buying from alternative manufacturers. And ever more stores open that carry these manufacturers.

The latest and imho funniest example for this trend could be seen on the first episode of the latest series of LEGO Masters that aired yesterday on RTL Germany. When they presented the team members, like they usually do during the first week, they showed the brick mancave of one of the contestants (incidentally from the team that won the first show!) and on the shelves there were two huge boxes of unlicensed Star Wars MOC sets from Mould King shown prominently!!! Not even blurred or anything. On LEGO Masters!

ROFL

@Padraig said:
"The yellow threads really do take away from it. Regardless, I’ve yet to buy a a control+ Technic set and nor will I until they develop a physical remote, which will allow it to be as easy to use in time as my 30+ year old sets. "

To those of you who have issues with the yellow tracks and/or are puzzled regarding this color choice: observe this image of a real Cat D11T and note what the color of its tracks is. https://www.lectura-specs.com/en/model/construction-machinery/bulldozers-caterpillar/d11t-1042556

@cody6268 said:
" @arathemis said:
" @Magyarhammer said:
" @EvilTwin said:
"Really I don't know why everyone hates Control+ so much. It's just a Bluetooth device isn't it? There appear to be already a couple of alternative apps that people have developed as replacements for the official app. Enthusiasts will ensure there will still be alternatives around for years after Lego have moved on to some other systems. I can still write programs for my 20+ year old Mindstorms RCX units thanks to third party support. Control+ will probably be the same."

It is very odd how people keeping saying in "In X years it will be obsolete and unusable....." there is just zero evidence for this. All these connections are becoming more and more open source and connections and controls are standardizing. You can even control all the EV3 motors with an Arduino interface. The old power function motors have connections that can easily fail and I have a whole bin of them that I'll have to re-solder if I ever get to it.

"

How many apps to you know from 2010 that still work nowadays? How many games from the 2000s do you know that still work well with today`s hardware?
How many of those games/apps/software are getting support nowadays? I can barely think of a handful, and I work in this industry, and I`m talking about companies that only do software and nothing else on the side.
How can you possibly think that a company like TLG which has software development as a 2nd hand (or even 3rd or 4th hand) activity, be able to support the software it`s releasing ?
They`re barely able to have a working website ..."

A number of the apps on my iPod Touch 4 no longer exist on the Apple Store.

I have many games on CD-ROM that I bought when I had XP through 7 PCs that no longer work on Windows 10 with modern hardware. Had to buy digital versions in many cases.

On another note, I've noticed a TON of indie games tend to only have support until the creator decided to move onto something else--which in many cases is a couple years or less. "

I can't even get my ten year old iPod to start, since the operating system is outdated and it's not capable of running newer ones.

@legofanboy said:
"This might just be the first Control+ Technic set I’ll buy. Of course it will depend on how many Aussie dollars they want for it."

AU$750

@MusiMus said:
" @MeisterDad said:
"Yellow treads? I wonder what the piece count is."

It's 3854."

thanks, I was wondering about the piece count.

It's a shame all this discussion about C+ will go unread, as LEGO apparently doesn't browse Comments sections. So, LIGHT UP that product feedback link, I guess.

Great looking set, but I'm saving money for other stuff...and Control+ sounds irksome.

Looks great. if it had its own "old school " remote control I would buy it.

I had no idea there was so much hate for Control+. It's completely unfounded and silly hate.

Folks, it's a bluetooth connected robotic hub. That's a pretty awesome thing. The API is open and seems really well documented. There are already third-party apps that connect to and control them. The BrickController2 app allows you to use a bluetooth controller to control stuff like this set. I wouldn't worry about this not being supported.

It's just a silly reason to completely ignore what looks like a super awesome build.

Sources:
https://lego.github.io/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.scn.BrickController2

@Duq said:
"Looks impressive. But €450 for Control+ without physical joysticks? Nah, sorry Lego, I'm your target audience for a set like this but you're not getting my pocket money this time."

https://racingbrick.com/2019/10/gamepad-control-for-lego-technic-42099-42100-with-brickcontroller-2/

@MeisterDad said:
"Yellow treads? I wonder what the piece count is."

When you buy a Cat bulldozer like a D11 new the tracks are painted, Don't ask me why it's always seemed a little pointless to me... But Lego is being accurate on this one and you can always change them out with extreme ease.

Source: I worked for/at CAT.

@seamusjim said:
"When you buy a Cat bulldozer like a D11 new the tracks are painted, Don't ask me why it's always seemed a little pointless to me... But Lego is being accurate on this one and you can always change them out with extreme ease."

In this case, color-swapping is not an option as the tread is a new part. It is much wider than the current large treads, which would look comical on this set if you wanted dark grey treads.

Definitely not for me: at a price per piece of almost 12 ct and control+
I have the 42114 volvo and the app does not work on my android phone and tablet, probably because the bluetooth version is too old (4.0)
So that would mean buying a new phone / tablet too
I now have a static volvo hauler to look at for a price of 189.00 euros

@mhbact said:
"Definitely not for me: at a price per piece of almost 12 ct and control+
I have the 42114 volvo and the app does not work on my android phone and tablet, probably because the bluetooth version is too old (4.0)
So that would mean buying a new phone / tablet too
I now have a static volvo hauler to look at for a price of 189.00 euros
"

Do you have a lego powered up remote control`? In that case you could write a program for pybricks to remote control the hub. It can be uploaded with normal computers (and you can get BLE dongles for like 10€ if your computer doesn't have Bluetooth 4.1 included). No smartphone or computer would be required after the initial installation as the configuration would be stored on the hub itself and the connection to the remote would be directly.
There are premade programs for almost all of the Control+ sets (https://github.com/Tcm0/PybricksRemoteLayouts) but this one is missing, so you'd have to write your own one for this set.

@Tcm0 said:
" @mhbact said:
"Definitely not for me: at a price per piece of almost 12 ct and control+
I have the 42114 volvo and the app does not work on my android phone and tablet, probably because the bluetooth version is too old (4.0)
So that would mean buying a new phone / tablet too
I now have a static volvo hauler to look at for a price of 189.00 euros
"

Do you have a lego powered up remote control`? In that case you could write a program for pybricks to remote control the hub. It can be uploaded with normal computers (and you can get BLE dongles for like 10€ if your computer doesn't have Bluetooth 4.1 included). No smartphone or computer would be required after the initial installation as the configuration would be stored on the hub itself and the connection to the remote would be directly.
There are premade programs for almost all of the Control+ sets (https://github.com/Tcm0/PybricksRemoteLayouts) but this one is missing, so you'd have to write your own one for this set."

Thanks for your reply. I expect not having to write my own software when I buy an advanced (and thus expensive) technic set, but thanks for pointing out these workarounds.

In the sets description at lego.com there is no mention of which bluetooth version is needed. I had to wade though the help page to find out it requires bluetooth 4.1 or better
In my opinion the information on the set's product page is a bit misleading

But we are getting off topic now, as this post is about the new cat bulldozer

I hate using touch screens. Control+ has ended my 40-year Technic collection. Ah well, gotta give the kids what they want. It was good while it lasted. Still look forward to modular buildings, although if they shrink the instructions any more I might have to say goodbye to that too.

@quincy said:
"Can anyone catch me up on the issues with Control+? …I loved the old power function remotes from about 15yrs back. "

Most confuse Control+ with Powered Up and ignore the Powered Up app. If you are ok with using a smartdevice in general (because its remote -> phone -> model) you can use the powered up remote basically just like the old technic remote.
The big downside: Lego does not include those remotes with the sets...