I am good for now with a cargo train, but I will pass this along.

I'm actually really curious to learn more about the Powered Up components in this set. It looks like we have (1) a physical remote control finally; and (2) a battery box and receiver that can't be any wider than 4 studs if they fit inside that locomotive. Unless I missed something, those are new things that people wanted, right?

Wow they didn't change te controller and reused the version from 60198 .
Cargo has some nice parts.
Not even an attempt to suggest a station scenery even a simple level crossing is not included.
https://brickset.com/parts/6010831/round-plate-2x2-w-eye is not used so we can't mess around with the rope.
@goldenguy880 60198 uses the same

Worst looking train ever, if only Lego would stick to doing a realistic loco, proper loco would fly off the shelves. This will be hanging around in the bargain bins for a while.
Come on Lego you are so much better than this.

For me, the only interesting subsection of this set is the car-carrier wagon. The other two train cars look lazy, but perhaps that simplicity is because of the target age range. The engine seems out of place with the rolling stock. What leaves me really scratching my head is the car-charging station, which appears to have no relevance to the rest of the assemblage. The idea is fine, but the context seems lacking. My personal opinion is that such a feature would have been a better fit in a more center-city environment or with a passenger train set.

Really hoping its about 160-170 USD, it likely will not be, but really that what this set feels like to me.

@madforLEGO said:
"Really hoping its about 160-170 USD, it likely will not be, but really that what this set feels like to me."

The rumor mill has it at $179.99 US....which makes sense given the lack of ancillary builds.

What a messy design. Blue lights on a train!?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pcqfa_uj2hA

That’s all I can think of when seeing a double-decker car carrier.

@Paperballpark:
1. Detroit has a streetcar-style train that has overhead power lines for charging over _part_ of the route. I was headed in to set up a layout at Detroit Symphony Orchestra in 2019, and saw it reach the power lines and raise the pantograph to engage them. I don’t think this one can reach that high.
2. Pancake the white car to get the blue one out of the way. Duh.

@BulbaNerd4000:
Haha, nice try. You’ll not sucker me into chucking my rechargeable PF battery packs at your head.

@goldenguy880:
The remote has existed for quite a while. The problem is it operates PU train motors like a train, and any other PU motor like an RC car. Which, you know, sucks for people who want to use other motors to make steam engines that run like a train. The app lets you pick which way you want to run anything, but then it shuts everything off if you walk out of range. Both have problems in congested public settings where everyone has at least one stray Bluetooth signal in their pocket. And there’s still the issue of not having a rechargeable battery option.

@Murdoch17:
My Shellraiser would have issues with that tunnel. With the tires, it’s 13-wide. And if that entry wall isn’t sturdy enough, the tunnel might end up wider than advertised.

@LuvsLEGO_Cool_J:
*ahem*

It.

@PurpleDave:

Ahhhh! Don't say that word!

I tend to be immediately reactionary when seeing initial pictures of new sets, but those feelings generally don't drift much. As such, I'm not sure I like any of the aspects of this set. I've been on the fence for a while with the current Powered Up Cargo Train set but if this is what's up next, then I may want to go back and Amazon the last Cargo Train set. :o(

P.S. There's no guarantees that the BLDP Round 3 Train Station even makes the cut, but I'd very much like to see the new City Train Station before considering coughing up a lung for the BLDP set.

@Zordboy said:
"It's very ... pastel blue.

To me, that just doesn't scream "heavy duty freight hauler".

That actually screams that the engine pulling
the express from Heartlake City has to do double-duty hauling freight because something else broke down."

OUCH!

More interested in the passenger train and station but this does look interesting. Pricing is going to make or break these though.

I’m guessing that new green stalk plant piece will be used in the Farm City sets with the rumoured new corn cob piece.

@denn said: "oh i so want a Friends train set"

Don't get me wrong.

I would pay a great deal of money for an actual Friends train set.

Just not *this* one.

I don't like this, apart from the car carrier, but they make those in truck form. This colour scheme is all over the place, and I don't think the design is anything to write home about. That forklift is... OK... not earth-shattering. At least I can save money on not getting this. What a disappointment for me personally though.

@bananaworld said:
"
@MZ_1 said:
" @BulbaNerd4000 said:
"Also powered up is better than power functions, fight me"

No no no, Power Functions was the best!"
Erm, hello? 9V?
"

9V is the best, as you just throw it on the bottom and the tracks do the magic

@bananaworld:
9v is awesome if you just want to get trains running on a layout and not have to constantly monitor them, but our LUG’s resident steam-head only likes PF because he can eliminate a lot of problems by directly motorizing all his steam engines.

@LuvsLEGO_Cool_J:
I already said it…five times.

I prefer the last cargo train, but this looks like a great toy! I know I would be chuffed to bits if I found this under the Christmas tree as a kid. These are gonna sell like hot cakes.

Looking forward to seeing the rumored station and passenger train.

@Huw said:
" @goldenguy880 said:
"I'm actually really curious to learn more about the Powered Up components in this set. It looks like we have (1) a physical remote control finally; and (2) a battery box and receiver that can't be any wider than 4 studs if they fit inside that locomotive. Unless I missed something, those are new things that people wanted, right?"

It uses the same components as in 60198 by the looks of it."

And 60197

@Murdoch17 said:
" @WhiteDove said:
"What is the third train?"

rumored UCS Hogwarts Express... 499 dollars, supposedly."

Oh wow! Now that sounds interesting…!

@yellowcastle said:
"I tend to be immediately reactionary when seeing initial pictures of new sets, but those feelings generally don't drift much. As such, I'm not sure I like any of the aspects of this set. I've been on the fence for a while with the current Powered Up Cargo Train set but if this is what's up next, then I may want to go back and Amazon the last Cargo Train set. :o(

P.S. There's no guarantees that the BLDP Round 3 Train Station even makes the cut, but I'd very much like to see the new City Train Station before considering coughing up a lung for the BLDP set."

I'm sad that I missed out on the few times that 60198 was on sale for about 169.99USD or 174.99USD at some outlets.. I wanted one for my collection so I parted with some VIP points to drop the price. This one, if the rumored price of 179.99USD is correct (i have heard a lot of rumors about the cost of this set though) its not horrible, but this set also screams for additional cars to be made and sold as sets (thinking back to the old 2126 train cars), but that probably will not happen.

Hooray for 4-wide cars!

My son and I picked up 60198 at The Lego Store last weekend. (Someone had returned one unopened for some reason.) He is a train addict and was THRILLED! He's been playing with it every day along with 60197. I suspect we'll get these two new trains at some point this year...and we'll probably have the green engine from 60198 pull these new cars too. This engine from 60336 can sit on a siding or I'll rip out the parts to convert 4564 from 9V to PU.

Engine is awful!! Almost looks like a toaster!

@LegoSonicBoy Glad to see I am not the only one.
6 figs and nowhere for them to stand, jjust a track and a train is very empty.

Still not a fan of the cargo boxes being open like that. And the random electric car charging station seems a bit out of place. I like the train design though but this set seems a bit chaotic. doesn't beat https://brickset.com/sets/60198-1 imo.

I have mixed feelings about this set. I like the loco very much as it brings something new to LEGO trains with fresh and modern colour livery, and it is clearly resambles the European Taurus loco, which is used by the Hungarian Railways and many others as well in Europe. The elaboration of the pantograph could have been better though, but it can easily be fixed. On the dark side: I do not like the cargo and wagons at all, they look cheap and way bigger than the loco. No sideway buildings or railway crossing. In these areas, 60198 was a better set. My plan is to keep the loco, modify it a bit (e.g. installing lights) and sell all the other stuff.

Still 6 wide, not 8. I'll pass

Interesting that most people don't like the design of the train.

If that same design was released on a Monorail, you'd all be wetting yourselves with excitement!!

;o)

I was a bit put off at first but it's actually growing on me - it feels like a sort of optimistic, futuristic freight train - sleek, electric and a lot cleaner!

Cool train. Horrible livery- easily fixed.

The plant piece looks nice- perhaps when the designer chose the livery, they were using something that has a particular resemblance to the plant piece. I know a particular hippie collectable minifigure who is getting a new train set.

Seeing this set makes me long for all the cargo trains before this. I like the loco design, just find the colour scheme awful for a locomotive. Apart from the unrealistic height, I love the car transporter, and the ability to use the buffer as a ramp for the cars.
Price is very high, but well, it'll be on sale if anyone wants it.

@WhiteDove said:
"| you wait years for a LEGO train set, then three come along at once!

What is the third train?"
Sets, not trains. The third set is the rumoured station that Huw mentioned.

@Interstellarpig said:
"I wish instead of just releasing 2 full train sets every 3 years they’d go back to the days of different wagon packs, a locomotive, sleeper car, station etc. "
That train has left the station if you pardon the pun. Profits R Us - sorry - The Lego Company have done their market research and found that individual engines and cars just don't sell in sufficient volumes. There's more profit apparently in a never-ending stream of police cars and fire engines than there is in trains.

@goldenguy880 said:
"I'm actually really curious to learn more about the Powered Up components in this set. It looks like we have (1) a physical remote control finally; and (2) a battery box and receiver that can't be any wider than 4 studs if they fit inside that locomotive. Unless I missed something, those are new things that people wanted, right?"

So, none of the things you called out are new. The previous iterations of City trains came with the remotes and the new hub (batteries and Bluetooth receiver combined, 4 wide).

@empire0

I agree, the Forklift is my favorite part. Fun fact: This one looks like one that's called a Reach Stacker. It can lift ~100,000lbs, stack up to five containers high and three deep. I recently learned about these due to deals my fathers company has been making.

@Duq said:
"That train has left the station if you pardon the pun. Profits R Us - sorry - The Lego Company have done their market research and found that individual engines and cars just don't sell in sufficient volumes. There's more profit apparently in a never-ending stream of police cars and fire engines than there is in trains."
That still surprises me. When we gave my youngest 60198 last year for his birth day, the first thing both he and his older brother wanted to do (well, after building it obviously) was to spend their pocket money on extra train stuff....and no, 60197 didn't fit their budget (though they got that one for Sinterklaas as well). Luckily there are other brands, so if Lego doesn't want their money...

Talk of realism for the train, eh? But no pushing for more anatomically-correct minifigures, eh? I see how it is, ya hypocrites!

I jest, of course! Not a train guy personally, but I like this take on the theme. More unique cargo types than I'm used to seeing, and the design of the main engine (?) is snazzy.

I quite like the new rolling stock - the lowered beds look similar to 10219.

The loco is very reminiscent of the ones I see in Central Europe (I go visit the Czech side of my family every year). But certainly a different vibe compared to 60198 60052 60098 and 7939.

To me, the pastel colors are quite pleasant to look at. Sure, it is more child-ish but again, some European trains, especially local passenger trains, look like that.

The lack of external structures is understandable. I think that TLG overshot with their price for 60198, which I bought on a pretty deep discount.

@watcher21:
This isn’t uncommon at rural stops in the US. My parents moved to some podunk little town in upstate NY while I was in college, and I ended up taking the train to get there for Christmas (most miserable trip I’ve taken in my life). The stop where I got off had a building about 50’ from the track, and that’s it. You got on and off the train from the ground, there was no shelter right by the tracks, and your luggage might get muddy during or after rain.

Back in the frontier days, you could order Craftsmen kits to build houses from Sears Roebuck, and they would just stop the train wherever it was closest and unload the components right on the side of the tracks, with the buyer being responsible for arranging transport to wherever the house would be built.

@BooTheMightyHamster:
Well, yeah, because you could throw the rest of the parts in a bin and have new monorail track, motor, and carriages. Even if you paid someone to haul the rest of the set away, it’d be cheaper than buying Used vintage monorail components.

@Duq:
I just came up with a new word:

Sarconic - (adj) when you say something to be sarcastic, and ironically it’s completely true.

@Duq said:
" @WhiteDove said:
"| you wait years for a LEGO train set, then three come along at once!

What is the third train?"
Sets, not trains. The third set is the rumoured station that Huw mentioned.

@Interstellarpig said:
"I wish instead of just releasing 2 full train sets every 3 years they’d go back to the days of different wagon packs, a locomotive, sleeper car, station etc. "
That train has left the station if you pardon the pun. Profits R Us - sorry - The Lego Company have done their market research and found that individual engines and cars just don't sell in sufficient volumes. There's more profit apparently in a never-ending stream of police cars and fire engines than there is in trains."

That is probably true but it is a very simplistic approach. Police cars and fire engines may sell well and are good for Lego in the short term. However, decent themed products (train, castle, pirates, space, adventurers, ninja, bionicles, etc) create a LONG TERM loyal fan base which may continue spending inordinate amount of money well after they are outside of the 'target' audience'. To produce this type of attachment to a 'medium' you need something more substantial than innumerable rehashes of police cars and fire engines (which are awful anyway compared to just a few years ago).

Just an idea here but at $500, there is a serious possibility that the presumed 'Harry Potter' train is not of the same scale at all - might be more of a Technic fig scale Hogwart Express Locomotive. I don't know, I'm just saying because at $500 there would have to be plenty of outside structures (Hogsmead, St.Pancras, Glenfinnan viaduc, etc) to justify the price.

While I recognize that Lego probably sells more trains in Europe, it would have been nice to have a current American engine like any of the GE's (ES44DC/AC, SD70 MAC, etc.). We did get a couple of nice GP-40's (60052, 10219) in the last decade but those are mainly used on shortline railroads and for shunting. It's not what most people see when they look at a freight train in America.

@Darth_Dee, why would you need such big engines if you only have 3 cars to pull?

Nice locomotive, but wagons look very cheap. Like someone removed to many parts in the design process. Or maybe their aiming in 80's basic type of design now? Dunno. Don't like this trend in LEGO, feel that recently they are trying to sell us "less for the same price".

@WhiteDove said:
"| you wait years for a LEGO train set, then three come along at once!

What is the third train?"

What is the second train?

@PurpleDave said:
" @Duq:
I just came up with a new word:

Sarconic - (adj) when you say something to be sarcastic, and ironically it’s completely true."

Where can I get the t-shirt? ;-)

@asherkobin said:
" @WhiteDove said:
"| you wait years for a LEGO train set, then three come along at once!

What is the third train?"

What is the second train?"

Did you read the actual article?
"It's being reported that a passenger train and a station will also be released on June 1st"

@Duq said:
"Believe me. I've had this discussion many times, including with set designers in Billund.
What you describe is the normal reaction of someone who likes trains. And I fully agree, from that perspective it makes sense. Now go to your local Intertoys or Bart Smit and count the number of train sets they sell on a Saturday compared to the number of police and fire stations. There's a reason we only get new trains every 4 years. That's how long it takes to sell the production run they need to recover the development."
Sorry, Bart Smit doesn't exist anymore :-(

Obviously, I don't know the sales numbers, but one thing I have noticed is that train sets always are in a very prominent position in shops, while the other €100+ City sets usually are somewhere on the top shelf. Where the average kid can hardly see them and even adults often need some help to get it. Either that is because those sets sell themselves, or it is because they don't want to waste precious real estate on those.

Also, there must be a reasons why the most recent police and fire station are quite a bit smaller and cheaper than before? Maybe part of the problem with trains is that there are only so few, very expensive sets? That's a high bar to clear to get into the system, and once your in there just isn't much else. Every single kid LOVES trains, but not every single parent can afford to spend hundreds of euros on toys.

It always surprised me how Lego with their very prominent presence and very high prices still struggles to make a profit. How can other (much smaller and cheaper) brands even survive then? And I'm not talking about the poor quality clone stuff...

I do agree with model railways. Partially (obviously Playstation & co also did their part) that is destroyed by the industry themselves a few decades ago by purely focusing on high end, VERY expensive models. One of the reasons why I switched from good old German Trix Express to Japanese N-scale about 15-20 years ago, similar if not better quality for a fraction of the price. And guess what? In Japan model railways are still quite popular among all ages!

I recently had a look at the new 2022 models from Märklin. About every new locomotive is (often way) over €400. Similar price for a set of 5 passenger cars. Or a starter set for €429. Sure, the My World sets aimed at very young kids are reasonably priced (but for that age lose out on play value against Brio trains), but anything after that is gonna cost you A LOT. And once you lost them, they won't come back.

Hm... interesting...

Lego can use its new Bricklink platform for "per demand" sets such as more rolling stocks. They can sell over there more cars (even the same as in this set). White box, PDF instructions, just the parts.

WB is doing something similar with their off the grid movies that there's no point in mass produce on Blu-ray. It's a manufactured-on-demand service (See "Warner Archive Collection" for more info).

I think the cost to run that would be minimal, and not that risky, yet provide those that want it to both purchase it and expose their BR platform for future needs.

I like the car wagon with its loading platform, I believe the last time we saw something this similar was 7839 Car Transport Depot from 1986 ! The locomotive seems inspired by the Siemens Desiro ML, currently in use on the Belgian train network as a type MS08. I'm not sure I will be getting this one. I think the container loader is way too large compared to the 6-stud wide loc. The dimensions feel a bit off. Happy to see a switch included though !

@WizardOfOss said:
"Sorry, Bart Smit doesn't exist anymore :-("
Oops... haven't been in the Netherlands for a while...

@WizardOfOss said:
"It always surprised me how Lego with their very prominent presence and very high prices still struggles to make a profit. How can other (much smaller and cheaper) brands even survive then? And I'm not talking about the poor quality clone stuff..."
Didn't say they struggle to make a profit - they're making a billion a year or something. They're just very focussed on making a profit. And of course even with all their market research they still get it wrong sometimes. Znap, Galidor, Chima, Vidiyo...

@AustinPowers said:
"There was a phase where professional model railroads were in a slump and several manufacturers had to fold or merge, but for a couple of years now there appears to be a turnaround happening. Attractions like the Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg seem to play a part in this, as does more varied source material with all the private railroad companies nowadays and their colorful liveries and varied rolling stock."
Not all countries have a Miniatur Wunderland (still haven't visited...) or the history and tradition with model trains that Germany has. Here in Ireland there is little variety in rolling stock. Model trains were an expensive hobby in a country that until the start of this century wasn't very rich.
Model railway shows love having us take part with Lego trains because we attract a younger audience. But the 'serious' modelers are nearly all 65+

@Nopjes said:
"I like the car wagon with its loading platform, I believe the last time we saw something this similar was 7839 Car Transport Depot from 1986 !"

Nice set, but I reckon that 4544 from 1994 was the last time we saw something similar

Am I the only one excited about the return of "Train Base 6 x 34 Split-Level" (or something similar?) on that car carrier?

@Duq said:
"Didn't say they struggle to make a profit - they're making a billion a year or something. They're just very focussed on making a profit. And of course even with all their market research they still get it wrong sometimes. Znap, Galidor, Chima, Vidiyo..."
Sure, but how on earth would it take them 4 years to recover the development cost of those train sets? Considering the prices they must make a gargantuan margin on each set. But while I I don't know how many they sell, right across our Intertoys is another toy store, more a kind of a dump shop. Sometimes cheap, but rarely with Lego: usually RRP or even higher. A few weeks ago they had 6 boxes of 60198 on the shelf for €180, while it was just €140 at Intertoys. A week later only one box was left. If an overpriced shop can sell at least 5 sets in a week (I obviously don't know if they had more in stock) with a cheaper competitor across the road in a small town of just 65k people, I can't even imagine the numbers worldwide. If that just barely covers the development cost, they are doing something wrong....
(that shop also had 3 Chirons on the shelf priced €80 higher than Intertoys, those were all still there a week later....)

Meanwhile Lidl in Germany recently had a couple of nice train sets for just €35(!). A bit smaller (just locomotive and one car), but motorized and with a similar track configuration as 60198. Good quality and with quite different elements from Lego, so no lazy clone. And with terrible minifigs, the one area where Lego has them all beat. But even at that price, they wouldn't be selling those at a loss, would they?

@Duq:
I don’t know how they’ve changed since the launch of VIP Red, but when they first got hard numbers on how much of the market AFOLs account for, both by headcount and spending, we did hear some stats on that. At the time, many AFOLs compared their spending vs whoever else they happened to see in the stores at the same time, and were convinced we represented well over 50% of the total purchases. And TLG, for whatever reason, thought we couldn’t be more than 5% of their bottom line. In truth, we were closer to 25% of total purchases. Now, this was back around 2009, and both the product line and customer base have gone through a lot of changes (the youth market has had time for a full turnover, barring those who transitioned into TFOLs or AFOLs). So, the overall hobby is not as niche as you make it sound. But you are correct that trains are a small portion of that whole. Yes, hobby train shows in the US demonstrate that. My LUG does about half a dozen of these annually, and we are almost always the only LEGO layout there. Our oldest members are often in the same age bracket as the youngest members of most of the hobby train clubs we see, and we often have more members in their teens and 20’s than all other participating train clubs combined.

But another great example of this is AFOL conventions. When I go to Brickworld Chicago, there are some LUGs who do train layouts, and dedicated LTCs who do large layouts that dwarf most other displays, but they still account for a small fraction of the total display space, and many of the smaller layouts don’t do anything more than run some stock train sets in closed loops around the perimeter to get some motion in their displays. Very few are displaying elaborate MOC trains, or complex rail yards. Within my own LUG, which usually does more than 20 train displays annually, less than 10% of our membership is really focused on making MOCs of real trains. Most just stick to buildings, I primarily do cars/superheroes/pop culture references, and a few only make stuff that doesn’t fit the format of a train/town layout (large sculptures, microscale buildings, etc).

@WizardOfOss:
My observation in the US is that trains, along with dinosaurs and big construction vehicles, is a phase that most really young boys go through and then grow out of. By the time they’re in their late single-digit years, they’ve stopped stomping around and pretending to be a T-Rex, and have moved on to more structured storytelling, often with a genre focus (hence the popularity of Ninjago, Superheroes, Star Wars, and Harry Potter).

@elangab:
Making on-demand movies typically requires less than half a dozen custom components (optical media disc, label on said disc, cover insert for the case, and a shipping label). Even with the storage case, overwrap, and shipping box (all generic), that’s seven items to get a movie to your doorstep. With a boutique set like these, they may need to keep dozens of Q elements in production, they have to print stickers and boxes, and there’s a lot of work involved in gathering hundreds of total elements together into one shippable package. For the Bricklink program, each round is a one-time affair, so very little needs to be stored long-term (maybe some replacement stickers/parts, just in case someone reports one missing/lost/broken), and there’s some economy of scale involved with making even a run as small as 5000.

I kind of like the electric locomotive. The colour scheme is nice too. Maybe LEGO took inspiration from Siemens locomotives or the Chinese CRRC ZELC. Since LEGO is doing more and more sets with Chinese market in mind, I guess the CRRC is the one they went for. But the power station wasn't really necessary. The green wagon is for bulk cargo, like coal.

@PurpleDave , you should have seen my 9 year old nephew fight his younger brother last year with Sinterklaas about who got to build the engine of the 60197 set. His interest in dinosaurs indeed seems to be waning, but trains surely not yet.

But sure, it soon will. After all, when you turn 10 it isn't cool to play with Lego any more, except maybe Technic. And once he enters secondary school he will inevitably enter his dark ages. Yet that still doesn't stop Lego from aiming an huge number of sets directly at that demographic.

The thing I just don't understand is if it apparently is impossible to sell small, affordable train sets in sufficient numbers, why do they even keep bothering with those big, expensive sets? And why even put in the effort of designing new sets every few years?

Weirdly enough, they did introduce that weird Creator train this year. I'm still wondering who that is aimed at....

@PurpleDave said:
" @elangab:
Making on-demand movies typically requires less than half a dozen custom components (optical media disc, label on said disc, cover insert for the case, and a shipping label). Even with the storage case, overwrap, and shipping box (all generic), that’s seven items to get a movie to your doorstep. With a boutique set like these, they may need to keep dozens of Q elements in production, they have to print stickers and boxes, and there’s a lot of work involved in gathering hundreds of total elements together into one shippable package. For the Bricklink program, each round is a one-time affair, so very little needs to be stored long-term (maybe some replacement stickers/parts, just in case someone reports one missing/lost/broken), and there’s some economy of scale involved with making even a run as small as 5000."

That's a valid point, but I wonder if it'll be simpler to offer (even as a just a test) more cars of the current set. These cars are already separated when shipped (it's usually one bag for car, and 2 for loco), and parts are in production. So should be easy to manage. They can just ship that specific bag. Yes, it'll cost money and maybe a bit of a change for stickers, but they will be charging for it of course.

@AustinPowers:
If you’re a store that stocks LEGO sets, do you want to fill your shelves with sets that will move millions of copies within their product lifespan, or ones that will move thousands? One of the drawbacks of finding success is that everyone expects you to maintain that level of performance. If one store in town stocks your products, they can serve a small market and do well for themselves. If 1000 stores stock them, you need to sell 1000x as many units or those retailers are going to want to drop the themes that don’t sell as well.

We’ve discussed this before, and the same things hold true. Trains just aren’t a cornerstone of the North American market, and Germany can’t keep the company afloat by itself. As more attention shifts away from German tastes, more Germans start buying other brands, and there is increasingly less incentive to ever try to cater to a withering market, especially when a ripe peach like China is there, just waiting to be plucked.

@WizardOfOss:
Did you know that, after the movie had come out on home video, there was still an entire warehouse full of leftover Darth Maul and Jar Jar Binks neckties from The Phantom Menace? At that point, how many would they have to sell each month just to cover the upkeep on storing the rest? How many would they have to sell to cover the cost of having the rest sent out for destruction? The Lord of the Rings trilogy grossed $2.991 billion-with-a-B. Peter Jackson took a cut of the profits as part of his contract. Do you know how much they sent him? Nothing. He had to take them to court, because they wrote off every general expense they could against the gross receipts of those three films, until they had managed to “spend” all of the profits away.

There isn’t any of that happening here, but the general operating expenses of the entire company have to be paid by someone. So, every theme has to cover its own direct expenses (design team, manufacturing costs, marketing, etc), but also a share of the general expenses for the company. This may be divided up by theme, by SKU, or they may have to plug some numbers into a formula. But for starters, Danish set designers probably get paid a lot more than Chinese ones, TLG probably makes a lot more philanthropic donations than Lepin did, and TLG isn’t known for cribbing part and set designs from the competition.

As for your nephew, don’t assume dark ages. I never had any. I think there are at least 4-5 members of my LUG in their late teens/early 20’s who didn’t either. One of them is even one of our train-heads. Dark ages are probably much more likely if you’re a community of one. If you find an active LUG, build relationships, develop your skills, and learn that it doesn’t have to be just a kid’s toy, you might not lose interest.

Not sure how Lepin got into this, but you are aware that there are other brands that do design their own sets and to a varying extent their own parts? Parts that TLG sometimes even copies, they aren't exactly holy either....

As for those Lidl sets I mentioned, Lidl is German, those sets had quite a few unique parts (including the whole electrics), and I haven't seen anything similar on our friend Ali yet....considering Lidl is a pretty huge company (about 10 times TLG), maybe even custom designs instead of just rebranded Chinese stuff? I just don't know. Sure, production will likely be in China, but it's not like much Lego is still "Made in Denmark" either....

And true, some costs certainly will be much lower in China than in Denmark. But what percentage of the retail price would be covering development cost? The moment you make sets in the hundreds of thousands, that becomes just a fraction. As for the share of the general expenses, wouldn't it be beneficial if the theme would sell more?

But that all still doesn't explain why Lego can't make a single small/affordable train set. And yes, I know the numbers here don't always give a good representation, but still the last two trains sets seem to have done pretty well compared to any of the recent police stations. Not too shabby for sets only younger kids are interested in....

As for LUGs, I don't know if those are even a thing here. I found two with some help from Google, but looking at their websites both seem pretty much dead.... But apart from that, I doubt he's that much into it. For him it's just a toy, no more, no less. We'll have to see if it ever becomes more than that.

@WizardOfOss:
Lepin is low-hanging fruit, as the OGEL of clone brands. After getting slapped down for stealing LEGO set designs, they started stealing AFOL set designs (following the announcement that they’d partnered with several notable AFOL artists, the Arvo brothers announced that they’d never even been contacted about use of their designs, which probably cut into their book sales).

Nine years old is a bit young for most LUGs. Mine limits membership to 13+, since COPPA makes it illegal in the US to collect contact info for kids 12 and under (though we do allow members’ under-13 kids to participate alongside their parent). Other LUGs limit membership to 18+. Even if there’s not an active in-person LUG in your area, there are online equivalents, like VirtuaLUG.

https://lan.lego.com/clubs/overview/_=_

This is a useful tool to find RLUGs. In Europe, many of these operate on a national scale, so finding one right in your town is rare. I found De Bouwsteen and LowLUG as physical LUGs, both with info dated this month posted to their websites. Robotmak3rs is an online robotics group that’s listed as “getting off the ground”, and Eurobricks is an online community with limited news content. Bouwsteentjes is a Benelux website, from what little I can decipher, and I’d guess it’s tied to De Bouwsteen, based on the name. Those are the five groups marked in the Netherlands.

But you’re missing one obvious possibility. You’re obviously an AFOL. Do you build MOCs, or is it strictly sets? If MOCs, engage with him as you would another AFOL. If you can start teaching him more advanced techniques, and show him that it can be more than just a toy for young kids, that may make the difference. If it’s just sets for you, the expanding 18+ range could be a game-changer. Prior to the first two SW UCS sets, there wasn’t really anything outside of the high-end Technic range that even hinted at being targeted at adults. Now you’ve got a diverse range of subjects that offer all sorts of directions for a young builder to explore.

As for how they market trains, I don’t know either. These are clearly “all-in-one” solutions where you buy _a_ train and never look back, where My Own Train allowed you to accumulate components over time, with affordable rolling stock that you could buy as an impulse purchase, or buy in bulk. Yeah, MOT used quite a few more SKUs than the current solution, but how many people would buy a second copy of any recent train? If all you want multiples of is one car, it’s cost-abusive to buy sets unless you can find a way to unload all of the unwanted components.

I also don’t know why they dump a whole wave of trains on the market in one go. Retailers are going to want churn, so by the third year of a four year release cycle, who wants to stock these? It probably makes more sense to alternate passenger and cargo every two years, so there’s always one fairly recent train on the market. Imagine if Winter Village dropped four new sets in one year, and then nothing for the next three.

This is all making me want to get 60198 ASAP, just so I have a cargo train in literal storage for future expansions to my train layout. As much as I don't dislike this train, it doesn't appeal to me the way the former did (insofar that I had to really weigh the pros and cons against 60197 for my first train set before deciding that I preferred passenger trains). I remember playing with it at a store display before getting a chance to do the same with 60197 at another store, and that memory has honestly stuck with me since.

@PurpleDave said:
"I also don’t know why they dump a whole wave of trains on the market in one go. Retailers are going to want churn, so by the third year of a four year release cycle, who wants to stock these? It probably makes more sense to alternate passenger and cargo every two years, so there’s always one fairly recent train on the market. Imagine if Winter Village dropped four new sets in one year, and then nothing for the next three."

Speaking of the Winter Village, I haven't seen anyone mention 10254 Winter Holiday Train, or the 10277 Crocodile, or 75955 Hogwarts Express, or 70424 Ghost Train Express. LEGO had all of these on the shelves within the last four years, each for $100 or less. Furthermore, 75955 is almost always on sale, and we bought two copies of 70424 at a deep discount. "Purists" might scoff, but these are all affordable train-centric sets that include train parts. Our family has been able to MOC up a decently "realistic" layout with modern-looking engines and cars using just four of those sets as a starting point (we don't own 10254).

Unfortunately, LEGO loses its quality more and more every year, the bricks lose colors, do not have perfect shapes, are scratched.

The prices are higher and the quality is lower. That is why people are increasingly buying LEPIN, because the quality is almost the same as LEGO bricks.

I have about 500 LEGO sets myself, but recently I bought 2 LEPIN sets out of curiosity: BUGATTI and Star Destroyer and I have to say that the quality of these bricks is really good.

Unfortunately, if LEGO does not improve the quality of its products and at the same time keeps increasing prices, some people will eventually give up their products

Glad that the cars have progressed since 7939, although this set did have both a left and right junction to avoid dead ends as very tricky trying to reverse a Lego train with carriages! Still miss a decent side build like the gantry crane, office and yard in 60052 to make it feel more special than the passenger train.

@ForestMenOfEndor:
Hogwarts wasn’t designed to handle corners well, or to be motorized. I’d say don’t forget the Disney train, which is definitely more recent than Winter Village’s, but at $330, it’s about as expensive as those other four trains combined.

@ambr:
It’s not difficult for my Shellraiser! But it probably will end up with all the rolling stock laying on its side next to the track…

@ForestMenOfEndor , fair point. Though thing is, these still are far from pocket money sets, most aren't that much cheaper than 60197 (which now seems to be on continues sale for around €90). And compared to that most are a bit light on the train stuff: obviously none of those sets is motorized, not all have magnetic couplers, most have just little track. In itself perfectly fine sets for what they are, but not for kids who just want a bit longer train.

As for the Crocodile, I've been on the fence for that one ever since it was released, but when I finally decided to buy it prices were already going up. There was a lot to love about it, but also a few major flaws that put me off. Mostly a result of the choice of Lego to make it a display model that should also be able to run. And it didn't help that it was a Lego shop exclusive for most of its lifespan, so hardly any discounts. For €110 (or €99 lowest ever on Brickwatch), I'd want something better. I do hope there will be a (better) successor soon....

@PurpleDave, thanks for those LUGs, I'll look into that. But indeed, it will be a bit too early for my nephew(s), like I said, now it's still just a toy too him, nothing more, nothing less.

Unfortunately they don't live that close, so I don't see them all too often. And indeed have I been trying to build something together with him. Ideas enough, and they have more than enough to build something interesting. But children and attention span, when you're just getting somewhere they want to do something else. And he has a younger brother and sister who also want some attention. And maybe the biggest hurdle of all: they have sorted their (pretty immense amount of) Lego on color, so try to find some specific small pieces. Tiago Catarino recently made a video about why you shouldn't do that, and I couldn't agree more....

As for the release cycle, it would indeed be better if they would have alternating cycles, though that obviously wouldn't have been ideal with the introduction of a new system like with the last wave. And I'd say the bare minimum would be a third add-on package (besides the tracks and switches), with just parts for a couple of car bases (or basically just very simple flat cars). That's another set that doesn't need a redesign every few years. And sure, there are other ways to get those specific parts, but I bet the average non-AFOL is more familiar with Ali than with B&P or Bricklink....

I wasn't aware of MOT, but that was pretty cool. But I can understand why that wasn't so cost effective, I mean, to have even a tender as a separate set seems a bit overkill. But right now they went for the other extreme. There should be some middle ground....

@PurpleDave said:
" @ForestMenOfEndor:
Hogwarts wasn’t designed to handle corners well, or to be motorized. I’d say don’t forget the Disney train, which is definitely more recent than Winter Village’s, but at $330, it’s about as expensive as those other four trains combined.

@ambr:
It’s not difficult for my Shellraiser! But it probably will end up with all the rolling stock laying on its side next to the track…"

Yeah, I left out the Disney Train (which is awesome) for that very reason. I remember that you've mentioned the Hogwarts Express issues before, but we never had any issues when we ran it "stock." Granted, now I've switched it to magnetic couplers, and I crammed all of the necessary Power Functions gear into the now-oversized tender, so now it is motorized and runs great. Obviously, if you're looking for an out-of-box experience, that isn't so helpful, but for just a bit more than $100 and a bit of elbow grease (plus track I guess), it's not a bad option.

@WizardOfOss:
Consider joining one yourself. You might enjoy it, and you’ll probably like some of the perks of RLUG membership (LUGBulk access being the big one). Maybe you’ll find shows you can participate in near where they live, and invite them to attend so they can see what the “big kids” can do with the same parts. Most of our membership joined because they’d been seeing us at shows and got interested in doing it themselves. A few of them had been seeing our displays since they were too young to actually join. Our current youngest member has literally grown up seeing our displays, as her father (also now a member) is part of a hobby train club that has been running a train show that we started being invited to before she was even born.

I don’t know why they’ve never offered started component packs for trains, but MOT took up a lot of shelf space due to the sheer quantity of sets involved. On the one hand, it might have done better as a D2C exclusive. On the other hand, the smaller chunks were clearly aimed at making it more retail friendly, with bite-sized purchases that you could buy all at once or spread out over time, with smaller budgets able to buy less than what one of the all-in-one kits includes.

Sorting is something that changes with the size of your collection. With really small collections, sorting by color actually does make sense. If you’ve got at most a quart of any single color, this allows you to pick color schemes based on what you have to work with, and the quantity of any one color is not big enough to make it impossible to search through. My brother and I probably should have done this, as all of our parts were unsorted in a few large boxes, with enough depth that you pretty much had to dump half of each out to even dig through the bottom half. Once your collection gets bigger, sorting by shape is definitely better, since it’s always easier to find a lone cheese wedge in a bunch of other colored cheese wedges than in a tub full of random parts in the same color. And even bigger yet, you really need to sort by both. Nobody wants to hunt through a gallon of cheese wedges for that one really rare color, and even digging out hundreds of a common color becomes an onerous task. Of course I say this as someone whose collection is still mostly sorted by “which set it came in”, separated out by the set boxes they came in. I do most of my design on a computer, I don’t part out my MOCs, and many of my parts go straight from a padded mailer into whatever I ordered them to build, so it’s a system that works _for_me_. And it can be great exercise, since I own a townhouse.

@ForestMenOfEndor:
The major issue with running Hogwarts stock is that the couplings are one stud shorter than the magnetic ones. This allows the buffers to press against each other, hard enough that a magnetic coupling would probably disconnect. Instead, it’s going to cause the train to twist as it enters corners, making it more likely to derail. All that you need to do to correct this issue is swap out the pins for non-friction axle-pins, and the 3L beams for pairs of 4L half-width liftarms.

I don't think it has to be complicated.

As before, Lego can make 2 complete sets every four years, one cargo, one passenger. Every year they can make a car - whatever it is anything something between $25 and $50 depending on size, side vehicle etc. Every two years, they could do structure - i.e. station, loading bay, repair shop, etc. This way, everybody is happy: it is easily manageable for Lego and client can also afford to buy the sets in due time (as buying all at once is sometimes difficult)